(40k) Raven Guard and White Scars Releases (Kauyon Campaign Book)

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**Warhams-77**

Thanks, Talys and Matt!

**Matt.Kingsley**

No worries!

**Nevelon**

It seems a lot of these formations are very accessible. Some of the ones from the codex require large numbers of things, or can only be worked into big games. These look to be a good way of adding some fast punch to an army, without breaking the bank.

I might just be that I’m looking at these from the POV of my collections and seeing a lot of “yup, I can do that” where as with a lot of the core I had a lot of “I’d need 2-4 more things to make this happen”

But the point values also have a lower entry level. While there are some big ticket items, there are also a lot of 2-3 squads of reasonable things formations.

**Thraxas Of Turai**

Have uploaded a number of sprue pictures of the *NOT* Raven Guard Captain from Shadow Force Solaq if anybody is interested:

The legs are pretty cool:

Rest are spoilered:

Spoiler:

**BrokenRecord**

So, how does everyone else read the rules for the Raven Guard and White Scars relics; specifically, can I mix and match relics from the White Scars list and the Space Marines list on a single character?

It seems to me that I could, but I'm not sure that other people read it that way.

**lord_blackfang**

BrokenRecord wrote:
So, how does everyone else read the rules for the Raven Guard and White Scars relics; specifically, can I mix and match relics from the White Scars list and the Space Marines list on a single character?

It seems to me that I could, but I'm not sure that other people read it that way.

The use of the word instead is the hint here.

**BrokenRecord**

lord_blackfang wrote:
BrokenRecord wrote:
So, how does everyone else read the rules for the Raven Guard and White Scars relics; specifically, can I mix and match relics from the White Scars list and the Space Marines list on a single character?

It seems to me that I could, but I'm not sure that other people read it that way.

The use of the word instead is the hint here.

Gotcha. So it's one list per character. Makes sense.

**Gree**

I am aware that the formations are not Chapter specific, but are the Relics Chapter Specific? Do you need Raven Guard Chapter Tactics to take the Raven Guard Relics or can they be used for Ultramarines or Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics?

**Ghaz**

Yes, they are Chapter-specific. For example, the White Scars relics can only be taken by "Units in a White Scars Detachment that can normally take items from the Chapter Relics list..."

**Doonan**

So is there going to be any model upgrade packs for raven guard and wheat scars ? I would love more bits to make up a unit of both.

**casvalremdeikun**

Doonan wrote:
So is there going to be any model upgrade packs for raven guard and wheat scars ? I would love more bits to make up a unit of both.

I would love it if there were upgrades coming. Unfortunately, none of the images from the book appear to have any sort of unique stuff on them.

They should do another 3-5 upgrade kits. Maybe Scars, Raven Guard, and Salamanders. Or release new versions of the Iron Hands and Imperial Fists books and release kits alongside them. We have five First Founding Chapters that need upgrade kits.

**MajorWesJanson**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Doonan wrote:
So is there going to be any model upgrade packs for raven guard and wheat scars ? I would love more bits to make up a unit of both.

I would love it if there were upgrades coming. Unfortunately, none of the images from the book appear to have any sort of unique stuff on them.

They should do another 3-5 upgrade kits. Maybe Scars, Raven Guard, and Salamanders. Or release new versions of the Iron Hands and Imperial Fists books and release kits alongside them. We have five First Founding Chapters that need upgrade kits.

Agreed. I'd love to see Salamanders show up in Mont'Ka, and then upgrade sprues for Sallies, RG, and WS. Give Farsight a plastic model (Skarbrand got a plastic as a SC) and plastic upgrade sprue with some of the Farsight wargear for battlesuits, and some shoulder pads for fire warriors and crisis suits.

At some point also maybe redo Clan Raukan rules/relics with a IH detachment and IH upgrade sprue, and Defenders of Terra IF relics and traits with an IF detachment and upgrades. They could do those two as a campaign vs say Orks (and more Ork models/new codex) next year as a GW tie in with the Beast Arises series from BL.

**tedurur**

The relics are actually really good for most of the part. Some seems like no brainers really. 10 pts str 4 assault 3 "bolter" The sniper rifle at str 6 with armour bane will put a dent in most armour. Almost as good as the old Vindicare assasin. But most of all, 20 pts for ignore cover on a whole squad. Thats awesome.

**Crazyterran**

Theres what, Ultramarines (relics, WLT) and Salamanders (Relics, WLT, Detachment) team up to kill some Tau?

I'm on board.

Give the Salamanders some awesome flamer, the Ultramarines a Gladius, and everyone is happy!

**casvalremdeikun**

Crazyterran wrote:
Theres what, Ultramarines (relics, WLT) and Salamanders (Relics, WLT, Detachment) team up to kill some Tau?

I'm on board.

Give the Salamanders some awesome flamer, the Ultramarines a Gladius, and everyone is happy!

I play neither, but I think that would be pretty awesome. However, Salamanders did not participate in the Damocles Crusade, so I wouldn't expect them to see stuff. Then again, they could be mobilized in response to the Tau beating on the White Scars and Raven Guard. As for the IF and IH getting updated supplement books, yes please! I would buy the IF one in a heart beat if it was as awesome as the stuff the Scars and Ravens received.

One crappy thing I noticed about the book is that I can't use the Land Speeder Darkwing in any of the formations. I wanted to use it in the Raptor Wing formation. Oh well. I still plan on running the formation anyway since I already run two Storm Talons and can make room for a Speeder or two. Being guaranteed to come in Turn 2 with the Talons and rerolling wounds and armor pens is just too good to pass up.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

I think the Bladewing Assault Brotherhood and Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force formations are probably my favourite. Off the top of my head, a list I could do would include ...

Captain:
-the stealth armour relic
-the jump pack relic
-the lightning claw relics
-melta bombs

A 5 man unit of Vanguards
-jump packs
-5 storm shields
-1 eviscerator
-a couple melta bombs
(they're basically a delivery system for the Captain, and they all go HQ and Heavy Support hunting, with melta bombs for targets of opportunity).

Two 5 man units of Assault Marines
-2x power fists
-2x flamers

Two 10 man Tactical Squads in drop pods
-flamer and heavy bolter/missile launcher
-2x powerfists

One Landspeeder
-multi melta

One Stormtalon
-Skyhammer missile launcher
(dedicated tank hunter)

Two 5 man units of Scout snipers
-One Vet Sgt with the sniper boltgun relic (finally I have a legal use for my Raven Guard Telion conversion)

More 5 man Scout units
-boltguns, missile launchers, heavy bolters, shotguns
-power fists.

One 5 man Sternguard squad
-5 boltguns
-Razorback with Assault Cannon? Or Plas/Las combo.
(localized fire support for the scouts and tactical squads).

An entire army of Deepstriking Assault Marines, Vanguard Veterans and Tactical Squads, one land speeder, one Stormtalon, squads of infiltrating scout snipers to hold objectives, and a 5 man Sternguard squad in a Razorback to hose down high toughness enemies with hellfire rounds.

**krazynadechukr**

Is anyone else find the "Raven Guard" captain, err, not Raven Guardy?

I noticed there's really not much "Raven Guardesqueness" about these minis. A Landspeeder, captain, vanguard, and sternguard...

I think I will wait for Nov 14th when the Horus Heresy Plastics are released. I think a 30k/40k dual Raven Guard army will turn out better. IMHO

**casvalremdeikun**

Only his helmet is really Raven Guard. The Vanguards and the Land Speeder are very Raven Guard.

**aracersss**

if ultramarines and salamanders are the only ones left missing anything unique, do you guys grace the possibility of perhaps at least UM showing up for book II: mont'ka, and salamanders maybe in another campaign against perhaps DE?

**edbradders**

angelofvengeance wrote:
Except White Scars don't really like to use Dreadnoughts... they're all about the fast attack so bikes, speeders and aircraft.

It's not that they don't like to use them, they just don't use them at all. They believe that the spirit should be free after death not cooped up in a sarcophagus. It has nothing to do with them being too slow.

**Crazyterran**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I think the Bladewing Assault Brotherhood and Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force formations are probably my favourite. Off the top of my head, a list I could do would include ...

Captain:
-the stealth armour relic
-the jump pack relic
-the lightning claw relics
-melta bombs

A 5 man unit of Vanguards
-jump packs
-5 storm shields
-1 eviscerator
-a couple melta bombs
(they're basically a delivery system for the Captain, and they all go HQ and Heavy Support hunting, with melta bombs for targets of opportunity).

Two 5 man units of Assault Marines
-2x power fists
-2x flamers

Two 10 man Tactical Squads in drop pods
-flamer and heavy bolter/missile launcher
-2x powerfists

One Landspeeder
-multi melta

One Stormtalon
-Skyhammer missile launcher
(dedicated tank hunter)

Two 5 man units of Scout snipers
-One Vet Sgt with the sniper boltgun relic (finally I have a legal use for my Raven Guard Telion conversion)

More 5 man Scout units
-boltguns, missile launchers, heavy bolters, shotguns
-power fists.

One 5 man Sternguard squad
-5 boltguns
-Razorback with Assault Cannon? Or Plas/Las combo.
(localized fire support for the scouts and tactical squads).

An entire army of Deepstriking Assault Marines, Vanguard Veterans and Tactical Squads, one land speeder, one Stormtalon, squads of infiltrating scout snipers to hold objectives, and a 5 man Sternguard squad in a Razorback to hose down high toughness enemies with hellfire rounds.

Vanguards can't have eviscerators, only assault squads. :(

**Orock**

aracersss wrote:
if ultramarines and salamanders are the only ones left missing anything unique, do you guys grace the possibility of perhaps at least UM showing up for book II: mont'ka, and salamanders maybe in another campaign against perhaps DE?

frankly with ultramarines getting soooooooo many rerolls via formations and such they dont need anything. Seriously what is their miss precentage now with tactical and devastator doctrines 4 or 5 turns a game.

**Crazyterran**

...White Scars are the most powerful marine army in the book, did they need something? Like ignores cover on an entire unit?

Most powerful Gladius is a white scar one with Khan. White scar bikers are a pretty good choice over Iron Hands as well. The only thing Ultramarines have for power builds is Centurions, and Loth/Red Scorpions are probably better.

The White Scars have been the most competitive choice for like three books now, and needed something the least.

And tactical and Devastator squad accuracy..? Lol. Funny joke, guy.

Orock wrote:
aracersss wrote:
if ultramarines and salamanders are the only ones left missing anything unique, do you guys grace the possibility of perhaps at least UM showing up for book II: mont'ka, and salamanders maybe in another campaign against perhaps DE?

frankly with ultramarines getting soooooooo many rerolls via formations and such they dont need anything. Seriously what is their miss precentage now with tactical and devastator doctrines 4 or 5 turns a game.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Reading the Kauyon rulebook now. So beautiful.

However...

"If you own a deck of Raven Guard Tactical Objective cards, you can generate objectives by shuffling the cards and drawing the top card instead of rolling a D66.

What the feth is a D66?

I guess you roll one D6 to generate 10-60, and a second D6 to generate 1-6? Heh, I was wondering why all my Objective Cards were numberd 1-6, 11-16, 21-26 etc...

**kronk**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

What the feth is a D66? I guess you roll one D6 to generate 10-60, and a second D6 to generate 1-6? Heh, I was wondering why all my Objective Cards were numberd 1-6, 11-16, 21-26 etc...

That is correct. It is explained in the rule book, in fact.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

I'm just flipping through. Probably skipped over that page.

I only have the 6e 40K core rulebook, would this 7e Kauyon rulebook be incompatible with the 6e rules? Were there many new special rules introduced in 7e? What were the major changes from 6e - 7e, besides Formations?

Theres maybes 3 other guys at my club with old 40K armies one Imperial Guard, two Tau players, and I have Raven Guard, which makes this new Tau-Raven Guard-White Scars book perfect

).

None of us have played in years (I lasted play during 5e, though I picked up the 6e rulebook for £10 a while ago), so if we're to get a 40K scene going I'll probably be the one incurring most of the costs, the other guys are more focused on board games. Don't really want to fork out £50 if I don't have to.

**kronk**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'm just flipping through.

I only have the 6e 40K core rulebook, would this 7e Kauyon rulebook be incompatible with the 6e rules? Were there many new special rules introduced in 7e? What were the major changes from 6e - 7e?

Many.

Too many for a news and rumors thread. Try 40k General.

**Orock**

Crazyterran wrote:
...White Scars are the most powerful marine army in the book, did they need something? Like ignores cover on an entire unit?

Most powerful Gladius is a white scar one with Khan. White scar bikers are a pretty good choice over Iron Hands as well. The only thing Ultramarines have for power builds is Centurions, and Loth/Red Scorpions are probably better.

The White Scars have been the most competitive choice for like three books now, and needed something the least.

And tactical and Devastator squad accuracy..? Lol. Funny joke, guy.

Orock wrote:
aracersss wrote:
if ultramarines and salamanders are the only ones left missing anything unique, do you guys grace the possibility of perhaps at least UM showing up for book II: mont'ka, and salamanders maybe in another campaign against perhaps DE?

frankly with ultramarines getting soooooooo many rerolls via formations and such they dont need anything. Seriously what is their miss precentage now with tactical and devastator doctrines 4 or 5 turns a game.

Someone has never played a well built ultramarine list with mostly tacticals, some lascannon devastators, and about 9 free razorbacks. Tactical doctrine is devastating from 50 marines with a smattering of flamers, plasma and melta. And my most common opponent uses that doctrine twice, as well as his 2 5 man devastator squads with that doctrine.

**Crazyterran**

Well, good thing you get two tactical doctrines just for playing a battle company/gladius.

Guess you only get one Devastator doctrine, though, but I think the ability to Scout and Hit and Run make up for it...