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2017/08/18 18:54:29
Subject: Re:[FFG] Star Wars: Legion (Miniatures Game)
At the beginning of each round of Star Wars: Legion, you and your opponent select a command card from your individual hands of command cards. The card that you select determines which player acts first throughout the round, and it also lets you deliver orders to a few of your units.
Ordering a unit in the command phase simply places an order token next to that unit. Then, during the activation phase, you have a choice—activate a unit that you ordered during the command phase, or draw a random order token from your order pool, which forces you to activate a unit of the same rank. Whether you want to guarantee you strike first or hold one unit’s attack until the last possible second, your command card gives you the means to deliver orders to your most important units.
Looks like initiative might be in the upper left hand?
Hero-specific command decks, as well.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/18 18:56:27
TalonZahn wrote: This is looking like a literal Imperial Assault Skirmish 2.0 (Now with twice as many dudes!) game.
Actually, it has one less dude!
Legion Core set has 33 miniatures, while IA has 34. For the non-boardgamers, FFG has a history of releasing new versions of its products (eg. Descent 2nd edition, Runebound 3rd edition).
My guess is that FFG thinks IA has had its run, with four big box expansions, and multiple small ones. For boardgames, this is a lot of big expansions, though miniatures boardgames and wargames tend to have more than non-miniature boardgames.
$90 MSRP so probably just under $80 for the game from a bulk site?
The price point is really similar to Imperial Assault, including figure count (both ~30ish figures). A lot of the old pre-paints can be had for $1 or so apiece if one is desperate. If someone is bothered by scale, there are some great 1:48 (or is it 1:43) kits for AT-STs and Snow Speeders... plus a lot of the old prepaint vehicles are decently scaled and priced.
Part of me kinda hoped it would have a Rune Wars-esque dial system but if it's more skirmish like it appears, I suppose it's better off without.
I'm partially hesitant about the orders and cards and stuff.. as those are the elements that put me off of Imperial Assault. I'd be willing to give it a shot though. Worst case scenario I end up with some Star Wars 40k
I'm extremely pleased that they aren't relying on crowd funding for this type of thing.
RE: IA has had it's run.. It has an expansion that's about to release.. so I dunno about that. If they are smart and set it up so that IA is the "Necromunda" to Legion's "40k" then I think they could open up some cross play gateway type situations to get people to either jump in or dust off their old stuff. Who knows if that's how they're planning it but the idea of having a large scale Star Wars game with a huge assortment of characters and specialist units to pick from is exciting enough.. anything that boosts that is just gravy.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Honestly that scale difference isn't bad. You'd barely notice it without putting the same dude next to each other. Put the IA Luke on a rock or something and it wouldn't be noticible at all. Plus he's ''a little short for a stormtrooper''.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
judgedoug wrote: Star Wars miniatures game - will make a stupid amount of money. X-Wing and Armada combined, and then some. Everyone wants to play Darth Vader on the table.
but queue Dakka standard response to ANY announcement: "well if it was only some very specific XYZ I would have spent my life savings on it, but now I'll have to give it a pass"
NJO and the prequels pretty much killed my SW interest long term, so I haven't really commented. However, this is the kind of game I would have loved as a child and thus plan to get it if and when my son gets into boardgames. His cousin already has IA, but they are just too young to play it. If worse comes to worst, the minis can mix in with the Star Wars Comand minis I already have a bunch of.
Still, it's a bit disingenuous to say people are being overly nit picky to be turned off by a FFG game's unstoppable tide of cardboard bs and cutesy dice.
Scale difference or not, I doubt you'll be able to play IA miniatures easily.
They put zero effort into letting people bring existing Descent miniatures to Runewars, and the cardboard tax of manouver dials, unit cards, etc.. makes it neigh impossible (without a lot of effort) to play even perfectly matched miniatures such as Descent skeleton warriors in Runewars.
I wouldn't expect this to promote cross-miniature-collection play-ability more than Runewars did. Unless you're endlessly searching ebay for no-miniature upgrade and unit cards, IA miniatures will likely stay in the IA box.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/18 19:15:24
2017/08/18 19:16:42
Subject: [FFG] Star Wars: Legion (Miniatures Game)
BobtheInquisitor wrote: it's a bit disingenuous to say people are being overly nit picky to be turned off by a FFG game's unstoppable tide of cardboard bs and cutesy dice
Of course, that's not what he said, either.
As to the cards and proprietary dice, well, it's a FFG game. Seeing those three letters should have put on notice anyone whose purchase was contingent on Legion not having cards and proprietary dice. I get that some people don't like it and I (think I) understand why. I would have preferred a 1/72 war game that focused on troops rather than comic book type heroes and villains. But that's just unrealistic, especially given it's a FFG product.
Makes more sense to talk about what FFG is making than what FFG "should have made" (according to each one).
BobtheInquisitor wrote: it's a bit disingenuous to say people are being overly nit picky to be turned off by a FFG game's unstoppable tide of cardboard bs and cutesy dice
Of course, that's not what he said, either.
As to the cards and proprietary dice, well, it's a FFG game. Seeing those three letters should have put on notice anyone whose purchase was contingent on Legion not having cards and proprietary dice. I get that some people don't like it and I (think I) understand why. I would have preferred a 1/72 war game that focused on troops rather than comic book type heroes and villains. But that's just unrealistic, especially given it's a FFG product.
Makes more sense to talk about what FFG is making than what FFG "should have made" (according to each one).
My apologies for reading that into his statement.
However, the FFG set up issue has pretty much ruined the company for me and is the number one reason I haven't bought any of their games to play in years. So, yeah, I'm on notice.
Wonderwolf wrote: Scale difference or not, I doubt you'll be able to play IA miniatures easily.
They put zero effort into letting people bring existing Descent miniatures to Runewars, and the cardboard tax of manouver dials, unit cards, etc.. makes it neigh impossible (without a lot of effort) to play even perfectly matched miniatures such as Descent skeleton warriors in Runewars.
I wouldn't expect this to promote cross-miniature-collection play-ability more than Runewars did. Unless you're endlessly searching ebay for no-miniature upgrade and unit cards, IA miniatures will likely stay in the IA box.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: it's a bit disingenuous to say people are being overly nit picky to be turned off by a FFG game's unstoppable tide of cardboard bs and cutesy dice
Of course, that's not what he said, either.
As to the cards and proprietary dice, well, it's a FFG game. Seeing those three letters should have put on notice anyone whose purchase was contingent on Legion not having cards and proprietary dice. I get that some people don't like it and I (think I) understand why. I would have preferred a 1/72 war game that focused on troops rather than comic book type heroes and villains. But that's just unrealistic, especially given it's a FFG product.
Makes more sense to talk about what FFG is making than what FFG "should have made" (according to each one).
If it is more skirmish as things are looking then Empire vs Rebels works great. The original Trilogy was more fighting from cover and running battles than Mass Battles. It also makes sense they release it as a skirmish because a Star Wars Mass battle would have cannibalized their market for Rune Wars.
2017/08/18 19:29:36
Subject: [FFG] Star Wars: Legion (Miniatures Game)
judgedoug wrote: Star Wars miniatures game - will make a stupid amount of money. X-Wing and Armada combined, and then some. Everyone wants to play Darth Vader on the table.
but queue Dakka standard response to ANY announcement: "well if it was only some very specific XYZ I would have spent my life savings on it, but now I'll have to give it a pass"
The issue is that FFG essentially already make this game, and have done for several years. Unless somehow moving from tiles and squares to inches and tabletops radically changes people's attitudes, irrespective of any changes in mechanics, you've been able to play a one on one Star Wars battle game of this scale and similar scope for some time and, IME at least, nobody is. So unless something emerges that really changes the playing field, I just can't see much to get excited about.
LOL Necromunda / 40k
Mordhiem / WHFB
Bolt Action / Flames of War
ridiculous.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2017/08/18 19:30:54
Subject: [FFG] Star Wars: Legion (Miniatures Game)
Digclaw wrote: a Star Wars Mass battle would have cannibalized their market for Rune Wars
This is going to happen regardless. Obviously, RW is a very different game from SW Legion but the commonality is target demographic: would-be mini gamers. I think more of them are going to be drawn to the SW brand. Fortunately, RW's release schedule is already in full swing for four factions, unlike poor Battlelore Second.
Bought tons of Imperial Assault, had no fun, sold it.
Bought the RW core set, played once, it's okay, not sure if I want to buy anymore.
So the track record isn't exactly phenomenal here. But I can't and won't pretend I'm not excited about this. I have been waiting for something like this for so long.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/18 19:34:29
For me, a lot of it is just that I've soured on cards in general. Errata has become very important as the crowd of competitively viable games as swelled and cards just aren't able to keep pace. As I've gotten to playing electronic options like Warmachine and Infinity I just don't want to have to sort through the stack to build my list. X-Wing is the biggest offender of a game I don't play as much as I'd like because of the hassle, but Malifaux has also something I've tired of managing for similar reasons.
FFG has some of the best resources to go digital, but they're so tied to monetizing cards that I doubt they ever will. X-Wing's a great game, but its so tied to stuff that its becoming very very cumbersome and hard to change.
2017/08/18 19:37:53
Subject: [FFG] Star Wars: Legion (Miniatures Game)
Albertorius wrote: Also, if anyone has questions about the rules, I can try and answer those.
Can you tell us about the command system?
Hm, let's see:
There's actually two separate systems that you could call "command".
- First, each player has a hand of seven Command Cards and can use one each turn. When starting a turn, each player plays one Command Card facedown, and they reveal both simultaneously.
- The chosen Command Card will determine which player has priority and who resolves the first actions of the turn.
- Starting with the player who has priority, each player nominates a friendly commander an issues orders with it. The number of orders that can be issued will be determined by the Command Card used, and can only be given to eligible units.
- A unit is eligible if it is inside the command range of the commander, and when you give an order to a unit you put an order token of the type of the unit face up besides it.
- Each player will have a command token of the appropiate type for each unit in their srmy. The ones not assigned form the Command Pool.
After that starts the Activation Phase. Starting with the player who has priority, each players takes s turn activating one of their units. When activating a unit, the player can choose to either select a unit with a faceup command token or to take a random order token from their order pool and activate a unit of the token's type (which can not be one of the ones with a command token.
That's basically it, although commanders and unit leaders have other rules.
2017/08/18 19:39:03
Subject: [FFG] Star Wars: Legion (Miniatures Game)
At the beginning of each round of Star Wars: Legion, you and your opponent select a command card from your individual hands of command cards. The card that you select determines which player acts first throughout the round, and it also lets you deliver orders to a few of your units.
Ordering a unit in the command phase simply places an order token next to that unit. Then, during the activation phase, you have a choice—activate a unit that you ordered during the command phase, or draw a random order token from your order pool, which forces you to activate a unit of the same rank. Whether you want to guarantee you strike first or hold one unit’s attack until the last possible second, your command card gives you the means to deliver orders to your most important units.
Looks like initiative might be in the upper left hand?
Hero-specific command decks, as well.
Yes, lower goes first. The card also tells you how many orders you can give and to which units, and some also have special rules.
2017/08/18 19:40:21
Subject: [FFG] Star Wars: Legion (Miniatures Game)
So there are two phases on which units activate? And a unit can activate more than once during a turn because it can activate in both of those phases?
If you activate a unit in the Activation Phase that you had not previously activated, then you have to assign them a random order token? So you actually can't control what that unit does that turn?
And if you select a unit in the Activation Phase that had already been activated, it can only do the same thing in the Activation Phase that it had already done?
I guess it would really help to know more about the order tokens.
Honestly, I'm more interested in the minis than the rules. And aside from the huge head on Luke (which actually looks better in most of the later pics posted), they look decent enough.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/18 19:44:34
2017/08/18 19:44:45
Subject: [FFG] Star Wars: Legion (Miniatures Game)
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Sounds like Orders are bonuses of some kind that apply when the unit activates later that turn. Like you have Darth Vader tell his Storm Troopers to Aim. Then when they activate, they have an Aim token to spend that round.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
So there are two phases on which units activate? And a unit can activate more than once during a turn because it can activate in both of those phases?
If you activate a unit in the Activation Phase that you had not previously activated, then you have to assign them a random order token? So you actually can't control what that unit does that turn?
And if you select a unit in the Activation Phase that had already been activated, it can only do the same thing in the Activation Phase that it had already done?
I guess it would really help to know more about the order tokens.
No, there's only one Activation Phase, but on it each players takes turns to activate one unit. Each time it's the player's turn, he can choose to either activate a unit with a command token assigned and faceup (from an order), which allows him to select the exact unit he wants to activate, or he can pick a random token from his command pool (which will be made up of the tokens of all the rest of his army, by type of unit) and give thst one to a unit of the appropriate type that doesn't already has a token (ergo, a unit that hasn't received an order during the initiative phase and that has not yet been activated. This is somewhat similar to Bolt Action's activation, but instead of the side of the unit being random each pickup, the players take turns.
2017/08/18 19:49:34
Subject: [FFG] Star Wars: Legion (Miniatures Game)
A while ago I read how FFG has lost a lawsuit in regards to Imperial Assault, and how it's too much like a boardgame license that some other big company had exclusive rights to. So now FFG has to pay through the nose to sub-license the boardgame rights.
I suspect the only reason why this exists now is that they get to reuse all the IA miniatures in wargame form.
Otherwise, Wargaming of this style isn't exactly the most popular thing.
Albertorius wrote: take a random order token from their order pool and activate a unit of the token's type (which can not be one of the ones with a command token)
OK I misread this part. So order tokens correspond to unit types. You use cards to give orders to certain units. Other kinds of units might activate during that turn depending on whether you draw their token during the Activation Phase. Is that correct?
For the non-boardgamers, 
" - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
