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 Crimson wrote:

Sotahullu wrote:
Yeah, Drop Pods is actually a interesting option and not just for dropping some devastators with multi-melta.

Just sadly for me is that as I am planning on making all-Primaris Flesh Tearer list so I can't take them (for whatever reason), like few other things.

I've been doing 'all primaris' too, but now that old marines have two wounds, I don't feel weird for using primaris models to represent them. Today I've been converting primaris-bodied sternguard to go in pods. They basically have stats of an intercessor with a bolt rifle, except they have a point more of Ld and AP.

Well I have been toying around with that idea too but I can't agree should I go with it. Maybe after seeing the book.

Plus I don't have extra bits so I would have to order those separately.

Converting oldmarines to Primaris is an interesting idea. I'd love to have Primaris bodied Grey Hunters etc, however oldmarines are probably not going to get new kits any more so they are going to get squatted at some point or another for sure... which kinda kills my excitement to go into too much trouble with conversions.

Being extremely pedantic over a typo - but the Ultramarines supplement FAQ seems to give the seal of oath full rerolls to hit and wound in a permanent aura (for core and characters).

Unchanged part of relic: declare a target unit.
New part: when targetting an enemy unit, reroll hits and wounds.

No real interaction between 1st/2nd sentence.

 Weazel wrote:
Converting oldmarines to Primaris is an interesting idea. I'd love to have Primaris bodied Grey Hunters etc, however oldmarines are probably not going to get new kits any more so they are going to get squatted at some point or another for sure... which kinda kills my excitement to go into too much trouble with conversions.

A reasonable concern. I built my sternguard with bolt rifles with extra targeting doodahs from infiltrators (they look much better with the bigger gun) as rules-wise their weapons are just bolt rifles with one extra point of AP. If sternguard gets squatted or their rules become incompatible with this modelling choice I can just use these models as stalker intercessors.

While I'm happy it seems like I can play my Primaris Ultramarines against non-space marines now, what do you think the better Primaris units are?

I used to castle with Calgar/Guil, Aggressors and Rep. Executioners but somehow all 3 got nerfed lol.

I know Ultras are the decent at all Chapter, but at least we stood out with Aggressors with our doctrine. What do we have now that could be our shining unit?

Keramory wrote:
While I'm happy it seems like I can play my Primaris Ultramarines against non-space marines now, what do you think the better Primaris units are?

I used to castle with Calgar/Guil, Aggressors and Rep. Executioners but somehow all 3 got nerfed lol.

I know Ultras are the decent at all Chapter, but at least we stood out with Aggressors with our doctrine. What do we have now that could be our shining unit?

only the most busted unit in the game..eradicators! You have move and shoot heavy melta rifles for turn 2 and 3. Heavy intercessors with the heavy rifle too. Girlyman still has a re-roll aura which is nice, and fall back and shoot is still good.

Khornatedemon wrote:

Keramory wrote:
While I'm happy it seems like I can play my Primaris Ultramarines against non-space marines now, what do you think the better Primaris units are?

I used to castle with Calgar/Guil, Aggressors and Rep. Executioners but somehow all 3 got nerfed lol.

I know Ultras are the decent at all Chapter, but at least we stood out with Aggressors with our doctrine. What do we have now that could be our shining unit?

only the most busted unit in the game..eradicators! You have move and shoot heavy melta rifles for turn 2 and 3. Heavy intercessors with the heavy rifle too. Girlyman still has a re-roll aura which is nice, and fall back and shoot is still good.

Master of strategy and/or squad doctrines can get up to 2 units moving/shooting with heavies on turn 1. Also worth trying to make the castle tougher - Tiggy can use his -1 on a core unit, and psychic fortress the whole castle for a 5++, and an apothecary can hand out the 6+++ and heal/revive where needed (awesome on 3W gravis).

As well as the totally busted eradicators, basic intercessors can step into the aggressors old anti horde role a bit. A squad of 10 with auto bolt rifles and 2 grenade launchers (now assault weapons) can use rapid fire and spray 60 + 4D6 shots around.

the redeploy strat is also very very good for ultras. I feel they might come out really good going forward

edit: I just realized they didnt change girlymans master of battle so he still has an army wide reroll 1's aura

Everybody on this argument please go Google "percent change vs. percent difference." Mathematicians already figured out how this works hundreds of years ago.

Having started this whole thing, and after reviewing the quantitative science formulas, I'm persuaded that I was looking at the modifier as a percent/relative change when actually it's a percent/relative difference. Ballistic skill does matter.

Easiest way to understand it is:

Look at how many shots it takes to cause 10 wounds. It makes it easy to see how much of an incremental impact something has.

So how are people feeling about the Sternguard now? They lost their stratagem, so there is less incentive to keep the special issue bolters. Still, the bolters are pretty decent and don't cost any extra. Assuming that I want to put them in a pod, should I just keep them cheap or are the options worth it? And if they're which ones?

So there's any decent buffs outside DA?

 Crimson wrote:
So how are people feeling about the Sternguard now? They lost their stratagem, so there is less incentive to keep the special issue bolters. Still, the bolters are pretty decent and don't cost any extra. Assuming that I want to put them in a pod, should I just keep them cheap or are the options worth it? And if they're which ones?

Well what is to say? They are "core" so many things still affect them, any rules concerning bolt weapons affect them and as veterans they can be kinda punchy.


There is really no specific loadout for these guys. It depends more on opposition.

Insularum wrote:
Being extremely pedantic over a typo - but the Ultramarines supplement FAQ seems to give the seal of oath full rerolls to hit and wound in a permanent aura (for core and characters).

Unchanged part of relic: declare a target unit.
New part: when targetting an enemy unit, reroll hits and wounds.

No real interaction between 1st/2nd sentence.

The last faq I heard of is the one of the 27/07/2020, is there a more recent one ?

I did a quick look inside the new codex and IMO the three biggest losers are the scouts in the Elite section (i dont see why i should use them for now) and the eliminator (lost of guided aim and Mortis Round now doing mortal round on an unmodified role of 6) and the land speeder where we cannot do a mix match of different categorie and we are back with land speeder, tornadoes and thyphoons. Now i will look for the winners and how i need to change my RG list.

 godardc wrote:

Insularum wrote:
Being extremely pedantic over a typo - but the Ultramarines supplement FAQ seems to give the seal of oath full rerolls to hit and wound in a permanent aura (for core and characters).

Unchanged part of relic: declare a target unit.
New part: when targetting an enemy unit, reroll hits and wounds.

No real interaction between 1st/2nd sentence.

The last faq I heard of is the one of the 27/07/2020, is there a more recent one ?

All FAQs updated at the same time as the wargear updates as of 05/10/2020 - mainly power weapons and the like but also aura and buffing abilities have been re-done to reference <CORE> were appropriate for the existing SM supplements. It's really OTT to fuss over it, but it seems to me like the two parts of the relic are now mutually exclusive.

OK, some random thoughts from my fist parse of the new codex.

WTF is up with the bloat? Why did we need a separate entry for the upcoming gravis captain with heavy bolt rife? He is one line off from the old one “may swap boltstorm gauntlet for master crafted HBR” Done. Did the pred need to be two entries? I can see things like the land speeders being split, as they come with different PLs. But come on GW! This is crazy. And the byzantine lists of what gear you can take just to match the models they make is getting stupid. KISS.

Chapter locking some of the gear is silly. Like the captain options. And would it have hurt them to just add the HF to the heavy weapon list for tacs/devs? Salamander players want to know.

Banners work on all core units. Dreadnoughts are core. Even in death, they get one more swing.

I like how a lot of random stuff is now keywords. Sure, you cant push a whole line of rhinos up and pop smoke on all of them. But you also don’t give up your round of shooting to do it anymore. Things like autolaunchers on repulsors are a lot more worth it.

Look at the keywords. The might surprise you. Things like outflank and smokescreen show up in places you might not expect (scouts, scout bikes, etc)

Rhinos lost repair.

Relic terminators cost more for no good reason. Well, you pay for the price of flexing you gear. Which you then have to pay for. My 5 man squad of capheracti are pretty much just overpriced assault terminators now. On the plus side, each LC gives you +1A. Will it blend? I think so.

Thunder hammers got the nerfbat. Hard. They are one worse AP and one more D then a powerfist. Which is approaching a lateral shift. But still cost 1.5x to 2x as much as the fist. Pass. Especially now that fists are a flat 2D. Chainfists are another lateral choice (but priced the same as a fist). Extra point of AP, but going from 3 to 4 is not the same as going from 3 to 2. And d3 variable damage, but max vs. vehicles. Honestly, they should all cost the same.

Veteran intercessors can take HBP/Chainswords. That’s a zillion attacks. Might have to dredge up some vet shoulderpads. Or just white trim a 5 man squad. Big boys can’t fit in TDA to get the honors anyway.

The intercessors’s GL is now just a weapon, so you can fire it in addition to the rifle. Not even as a combi, just CHONK and eat a grenade.

Infiltrators medic got changed. No longer a mini apothocary, but ignore the first failed save. Simpler, and lets you shrug off a lascannon, but only good if constantly taking fire. Which they probably are.

Contemptors got their profile flattened a bit. No longer degrades, but not as great to start. All the dreads got the -1 dam to hit, just always on. And the Ven still has his 6+++. And they are core. Good time to be mortally wounded.

Combat shields are 5++ and +1 to armor saves. Need to see who can take them that I don’t already have one modeled for. Might just be assault marine sarge.

Ultramarine Eliminator squads are going to make Eldar look like slow pokes. Tac doctrine, so move and shoot like you didn’t. 6”, shoot, (sarge with his carbine) move another 6”

TFC lost a point of S and AP. Ouch.

AA tanks look to be really good at their job, but just kinda OK at non-aircraft. Which is good.

Like the new tank, not the new speeders.

LSS for the same assault rule as the impulsor, but scouts are no longer ObSec. Or troops. Or durable. But you can dump them right in someone’s lap. Or the could just shoot from the speeder. Might be nice for some secondary objectives.

 Nevelon wrote:
Why did we need a separate entry for the upcoming gravis captain with heavy bolt rife?

 Nevelon wrote:
And the byzantine lists of what gear you can take just to match the models they make is getting stupid.

 Nevelon wrote:
Chapter locking some of the gear is silly. Like the captain options. And would it have hurt them to just add the HF to the heavy weapon list for tacs/devs?

You should know the answer to these by now.

 Nevelon wrote:
Thunder hammers got the nerfbat. Hard. They are one worse AP and one more D then a powerfist. Which is approaching a lateral shift. But still cost 1.5x to 2x as much as the fist.

Typical GW over-balance.

 Nevelon wrote:
Combat shields are 5++ and +1 to armor saves. Need to see who can take them that I don’t already have one modeled for. Might just be assault marine sarge.

If it's the only mini that comes with that bit, expect it to be the only model that can take it.

I wasn’t shocked or surprised by much. Not my first rodeo. But disappointed by the usual patterns and recent trends.

Is what it is. Still looks like a fun codex.

Hoping for an errata to clarify chapter command upgrade prices and the Primaris Apothecary keywords since he can't be upgraded currently.

Also eliminators lost the option for their sergeant to give them +1 to hit and wound but he can now fire his bolt carbine and the squad move after firing


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also eliminators lost the option for their sergeant to give them +1 to hit and wound but he can now fire his bolt carbine and the squad move after firing

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Also eliminators lost the option for their sergeant to give them +1 to hit and wound but he can now fire his bolt carbine and the squad move after firing


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also eliminators lost the option for their sergeant to give them +1 to hit and wound but he can now fire his bolt carbine and the squad move after firing

Dont forget the mortis round change the mortal wound of 6+ with unmodified 6.

I don't understand Heavy Intercessors.

They're basically a bulkier version of regular Intercessors, which is obvious, with their own mirrored version of the weapons.

Except not...

They've got a Rapid Fire version, an Assault Version and a Heavy version. However their special Heavy Bolter variant is Heavy in all instances.

Doesn't this run counter to the unit's abilities? Why would you ever bring the Hellstorm Heavy Bolter on a unit that has Assault Guns and is therefore, by design, meant to be moving around?

Yes, I know that Heavy Intercessor make great objective babysitters, so really the assault variants of their guns are unlikely to be taken, but I can't figure out why they were saddled with a weapon that runs counter to their intended use. It'd be like allowing Eliminators to upgrade one man in the unit to have a Plasma Pistol.

And that's before we get to the obvious errors in the unit entry that have to have come about because at one stage they decided to give the Heavy Intercessor guns new names but didn't bother to check the whole entry.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't understand Heavy Intercessors.

They're basically a bulkier version of regular Intercessors, which is obvious, with their own mirrored version of the weapons.

Except not...

They've got a Rapid Fire version, an Assault Version and a Heavy version. However their special Heavy Bolter variant is Heavy in all instances.

Doesn't this run counter to the unit's abilities? Why would you ever bring the Hellstorm Heavy Bolter on a unit that has Assault Guns and is therefore, by design, meant to be moving around?

Yes, I know that Heavy Intercessor make great objective babysitters, so really the assault variants of their guns are unlikely to be taken, but I can't figure out why they were saddled with a weapon that runs counter to their intended use. It'd be like allowing Eliminators to upgrade one man in the unit to have a Plasma Pistol.

And that's before we get to the obvious errors in the unit entry that have to have come about because at one stage they decided to give the Heavy Intercessor guns new names but didn't bother to check the whole entry.

It only looks weird as it's a new situation for marines, it's existed forever that rapid fire weapons (which also like to move close) have been accompanied by heavy weapons as a specialist choice - it's no different for assault weapons unless you are dead set on advance moving them all the time. For each of the heavy bolt rifle variants, if you expect you'll have targets that the higher damage stat will benefit against it will generally be better to include the heavy bolter variant - the damage and rate of fire increase will have a greater positive impact than -1 to hit for moving.

Also, the assault variant weapon is possibly the best all round version of the three. It benefits the most from doctrines, and will put out the highest rate of fire in all circumstances. Doing some very rough and ready calculations, in tactical doctrine the assault version with matching heavy seems to be the most cost effective 2W marine killer regardless of whether you move them or not.

I think Thunderhammers still have a place, there are quite a few 3W models out there where a fist will need 2 kills to finish the model, the hammer just needs 1.

There are enough FNP type abilities out there as well that D3 will hold value against 2w targets

Scouts are such a weird one, in Troops they were definitely pretty darn strong with their extra deploy and weapon options in 8th. But as Elites now they seem kind of overpriced without ob sec nor 2 wounds. And, it's funny fluffwise to have the trainees in the Elite section. I'd have guessed they could have simply left them as Troops now that the rest of the codex got buffed around them. 1w vs scout deploy is a valid tradeoff without the Elite penalty too.

This definitely changed the math on the Scout Bikes I finally just finished painting. The codex added so many more mobile shooty options to compare against and then the regular bikers and Outriders are super viable.

I've got a question for you, specifically because you've probably have the Codex in a different language than mine, so it's worth checking if it's a localization or a generalized issue.

The upgrade to Master of the Forge: how much it cost? I found +20 points in the rules description, but +30 points in the final summary with point cost.
This BTW applies to almost all the roles with the exception of Chapter Master: are 10 pt less in the paragraph rather than in the summary.

How much really it is? Considering the rule, I suppose +20 makes more sense... but how can I trust the summary if they botched probably the most important part and the easier to double-check?

So I have about 50 jump pack guys for my Raven Guard army. 30 of them are assault squads with bp&chainsword and 2 flamers in each unit.

When I'm looking at point costs , though, I can see that vanguard vets are only 1 point more than assault marines. I would lose the flamers, but each bp&cs guy would get an extra attack, and I can just make up a couple of extra guys to replace the flamers, even give the new guys vanguard weapon options, lightning claws or whatever. 30 guys with 2 attacks base plus chainsword plus shock attack makes up for losing some flamers, right?

Plus battalion has more elite slots than fast (I'm making a skyhammer army with speeders, jump packs and aircraft), so vanguards don't use up my speeder slots.

I keep hearing people who are keen on the assault sergeant's combat shield, but a vanguard sergeant can take a *storm* shield for 1 point less, and has access to all the same melee weapon options plus relic blade, and the melee weapons are mostly 1-2 points cheaper than an assault sergeants.

Am I missing something here? Are vanguards the bargain that they look like? Is there any reason to take assault marines over vanguard vets right now?

I think that Vanguard Veterans were a better deal in 8th edition than Assault Marines, and I think they are even better in 9th edition.

I believe you can also give individual Vanguard Veterans two hand flamers each. Something I'm considering especially for Salamanders who could use a little mobility.