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LunaHound wrote:
Then why did the metal incubi get replaced with resin ones right away?

If you look at it , wouldnt it make more sense if Fine Cast were say released 2 more months later than what we got now?

Planning or not is one thing , im saying, they pushed the release earlier for some reason.

Well, it was more like 7 months between metal Incubi and resin ones.

Thing is, it doesn't matter when they would have released Finecast, they'd still be "Well, why wasn't the last things released in metal not done in resin?" So if they pushed it out two months, It'd be the Haemonculi, Wracks, and Grotesques as the last metals, instead of the GKs. Or, if they had set their target date and started the conversion, then decided to push it out two months, that's two months when they are running out of stock on existing metals and two months of releases with no new non-plastics.

Yes, thats why i thought something had to have gone wrong.
And then we also see the quality of the FC line, it couldnt all be a coincidence, so i asked. And you gave a perfect answer which i 'll accept even if you havnt produced a GW CEO ID xD

BrassScorpion wrote:50 pages of mostly dross

How do you figure? Everyone telling the truth = dross? The Finecast release is crap, you can't have a rumored 35% miscast rate and call it anything but. The fact that GW employees are encouraging people to check blisters and boxes after purchase for defects, the pictures used on the website aren't even free of defects, and store displays are melting in the sunlight of a normal summer day...there's just no way to put a positive spin on that and try to pretend that the negativity is completely unwarranted.

I agree that claiming this was a "last-minute" thing with no planning or lead-in is kind of stupid, but still.

Sidstyler wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:50 pages of mostly dross

How do you figure? Everyone telling the truth = dross? The Finecast release is crap, you can't have a rumored 35% miscast rate and call it anything but. The fact that GW employees are encouraging people to check blisters and boxes after purchase for defects, the pictures used on the website aren't even free of defects, and store displays are melting in the sunlight of a normal summer day...there's just no way to put a positive spin on that and try to pretend that the negativity is completely unwarranted.

I agree that claiming this was a "last-minute" thing with no planning or lead-in is kind of stupid, but still.

Guess I got a pretty damn good batch of Finecast. Out of 200 blisters I've called in about 2 of them. Had one box get returned by someone and we replaced it. That's out of a couple dozen boxes sold.

35% is pretty damn big exaggeration IMO. Haven't heard of any independent retailers with anything like that. And bitching on retailer forums makes Dakka look quite mellow in comparison. If people had problems, they be screaming.

Sidstyler wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:50 pages of mostly dross

How do you figure? Everyone telling the truth = dross? The Finecast release is crap, you can't have a rumored 35% miscast rate and call it anything but. The fact that GW employees are encouraging people to check blisters and boxes after purchase for defects, the pictures used on the website aren't even free of defects, and store displays are melting in the sunlight of a normal summer day...there's just no way to put a positive spin on that and try to pretend that the negativity is completely unwarranted.

I agree that claiming this was a "last-minute" thing with no planning or lead-in is kind of stupid, but still.

Of course you can have a 35% miscast rate and still have a good product, if the product that isn't miscast is good.

Since people love the video game analogy, Microsoft had about a 30% RRoD rate. Over the years it rose to over 50% rate. That's terrible for a consumer electronic device. It also had ridiculously priced peripherals ($250au for a 200gb hard drive? $150au for a wireless reciever?). But it was insanely popular. Because it was good when it wasn't RRoDing on people. It helped that Microsoft had great customer support and managed to get good PR out of the whole thing.

It's entirely possible for people to see the good in Finecast. For example, Tyranid players who want to pay for it are probably overjoyed at not having Zoanthropes fall head first from people placed wrong on a grain of sand, or Hive Guard falling apart because they had the audacity to pick them up. Some models also look fantastic in resin, like Astorath. The difference is GW's marketing are doing entirely the wrong thing. If they just said yes, we realized there's an issue with quality, send in your miscast models and we'll send you a replacement and a free 'x' miniature for your troubles, then people would be pretty happy with Finecast.

But with GW saying absolutely nothing publicly about any of the issues raised about the new line and not really trying to play nice with people who have gotten some pretty awful stuff, it's exacerbating the issue.

So do we actually know if Finecast stuff is being made in the US, too?

It's becoming more and more apparent that the US QC is much, much better than the UK - over here we're getting far fewer reports of decent shipments. Something to be learned here?

I really hate people that say "Well I didn't have that experience, so it cannot therefore be true."

Don't be so naive.

So if Finecast melts at ~28c would that mean the minis would melt while holding them from my own body heat?

You also failed to straighten the crozius handle

Gotta pick on this one, the metal model i first got had (and still has) the crozius bent on the same angle as the one in his post... i think the original wasnt quite at the right angle.

I splashed out my £21 on two figures last week and it seems I got either side of it - Commisar Yarrick I'd rate at about 85%, with a few minor miscasts and bubbles, but the Chaplain with jumpack I'd put at 50%; mould slip, miscasts, bubbles - it's got the lot.

Having spent 30 years working with metal miniatures I can honestly say that, at the moment at least, "Finecast" is overpriced tat that is too soft and doesn't look like it's going to last 5 minutes - and I just collect and paint figures, I don't wargame with them. What's more annoying is my interest in figure painting, which waxes and wains over the years, has just perked up again to coincide with the price hike and the gradual deletion of the metal figures.

They should have left their metal figures alone and replaced all those dodgy, poorly detailed and executed plastic figures first (Orc Stormboyz spring to mind - quite possibly the worst figures I've seen in recent years).

Seriphis wrote:

You also failed to straighten the crozius handle

Gotta pick on this one, the metal model i first got had (and still has) the crozius bent on the same angle as the one in his post... i think the original wasnt quite at the right angle.

Also failing to straighten something which is clearly bent does not justify it.

Doubtful. It might get more flexible if you held it long enough, but melt? Don't think so. I do think, however, if left in a glass case with hot lights that is also sitting in the Arizona sunlight, they would actually begin to deform. Melt into a puddle? No, but deform to the point where they might not be salvageable? Quite possibly.

The main problems with the stuff isn't so much the melting, but the garbage casts that have garnered so much attention. Saw a guy with a space wolves character that was lacking pretty much the entire face, looked like a nurgle marine with a beard.

Obviously, it is hit or miss, but it is bad enough that it needs to be dealt with and should be a concern for those buying sight unseen.

FrozenSoul80 wrote:So if Finecast melts at ~28c would that mean the minis would melt while holding them from my own body heat?

Most materials soften and lose structural strength before they get to their melting temperature. It's possible that if you put a Finecast model in your trouser pocket for an hour, the combination of warmth and pressure would deform it.

Presumably not many people are going to carry around models in their pockets. However the resin certainly gets soft enough to bend easily under hot tap water which is about 50 degrees. A car on a summer's day, or a shop window, can easily reach that kind of temperature.

Thrax wrote:I really hate people that say "Well I didn't have that experience, so it cannot therefore be true."

Don't be so naive.

Actually I think very few people have come out and said that so far. Except for that one guy a while back who accused everyone posting "negative" reviews of being secret PP employees trying to discredit GW.

Well, I kinda did just now, but I'm not saying the Finecast product is crap necessarily, just that the release left a bit to be desired. Embarrassingly high miscast rate, and regardless of what that percentage may actually be, it must be relatively high if people are being encouraged in stores to open their boxes/blisters and inspect them for quality after purchase, and the whole thing about store displays melting or models being damaged from just sitting inside their own blisters...it's not living up to the hype so it's hard to argue that the release wasn't kind of laughable.

I'm perfectly willing to accept that some stores didn't have that problem and that most of the models they received were fine. I just wish all stores got that lucky.

I went to my local store last Friday and looked at many blisters with Finecast models. The quality varied very much. I was interested in buying Castellan Crowe, but a part of a boot was missing (saw that failure on pictures in the web as well).

Then I took a look at Abaddon and I was amazed by the details. I checked the miniature as good as I could and bought it. At home I only found a slight mistake as the the spiked Space Marine helmet did not look complete, but thats not a problem in my view.

I always wanted to paint Abaddon, but obviously the metal miniature never grabbed my attention. I am sure the details are the same, but you just see them better on resin.

In a nutshell: GW needs to work on the quality and get a higher % of acceptable quality. Right now I do not want to buy something which I cannot lay my eyes on before. But eventually I will do because the finescasts can look very good ...

Yeah, I've been wanting to get the Lelith model for a while...but I'd prefer to get one that has all her toes, you know? lol...

LunaHound wrote:I havnt read what other posts you received in earlier pages.

Don't worry, I must also have missed BrassScorpion's polite post

BTW, the new GW policy is that only people involved in a project know about it. So expect more weirdnes in the future.
Recent highlight: Price rise for Tomb King army book a week after release
Or denying any Finecast release (Wracks, Grotesque, Haemunculus, all Tomb King stuff) for June on the news poster

Also:
Finecast doesn't melt at 28 C: The outdoor temperature was that, right behind the store's window, the rack heated up a bit more. Still troublesome, as cars including all postal delivery cars get that hot easily during summer.

winterdyne wrote:So do we actually know if Finecast stuff is being made in the US, too?

It's becoming more and more apparent that the US QC is much, much better than the UK - over here we're getting far fewer reports of decent shipments. Something to be learned here?

I guess somebody in the US should check the backside of the card included in the blister to see if it says "manufactured in the UK" or "manufactured in the USA".

I'm also curious to know if later/second shipments have shown improvements compared to the first shipments?

Its is "manufactured in the UK"

As I understand, GW's US facility ceased metal, and thus now resin, production a few years ago. All Finecast is made in the UK.

Claimh_Solais wrote:Its is "manufactured in the UK"

Yes, but your flag indicates you live in Sweden...

This was a question for our American based gamers.

Every single piece of Finecast I purchased in the US was marked "Made in the UK".

Because it was more apparent in photos than in person, I fixed the Crozious on my Chaplain. For those asking about paint adhesion, it was fine, with no flaking or cracking.


I can also confirm as a US buyer than my card says Made in the UK.

My box of incubi say "Made in the UK" also.

mikhaila wrote:
Guess I got a pretty damn good batch of Finecast. Out of 200 blisters I've called in about 2 of them. Had one box get returned by someone and we replaced it. That's out of a couple dozen boxes sold.

35% is pretty damn big exaggeration IMO. Haven't heard of any independent retailers with anything like that. And bitching on retailer forums makes Dakka look quite mellow in comparison. If people had problems, they be screaming.

Yeah, 35% seems like internet hyperbole. I've got an email response from Mark Wells (after I emailed the investor relations folks) that says they've had a reported defect rate at around 3% and that they're still working through some bugs in the new process and should see less problems going forward.

I bought a termie librarian with no problems except a slightly bent staff which is probably a mold problem because the metal model had the same issue; not a big deal and easy to fix. I found that cleaning the resin flash was much easier than the metal flash; in fact it was true that most of it was easily pulled off with my fingers. I only needed my snips and files for the feet and a couple of other areas.

LunaHound wrote:Then why did the metal incubi get replaced with resin ones right away?

For those wanting to speculate that the Finecast release was somehow 'rushed', my understanding is that the release weekend (e.g. end of May) happens to also be GW's end of the financial year - so any initial FC sales would have counted towards this last year/quarter.

winterdyne wrote:So do we actually know if Finecast stuff is being made in the US, too?

I would highly doubt it. I visited the Memphis factory back in 2009 and they are only set up to do plastics. They only have the molds and machines for plastic kits, their assembly line is configured solely for boxing plastic kits, their raw material silos are geared for plastic, etc. The only space they had for metals were with the paints and everything else that gets shipped from Nottingham.

Metal production was UK-only, and I think it's safe to assume (but yes, only an assumption) that the nature of how they're making the FC models is that they're still a UK-only operation.

I'm so glad to hear Mark Wells himself has the time to converse with you about the QC of their finecast line.

I already had issue with GW's prices once single metal models got above $10, and that has been years ago. Now they have switched to a questionable material that will deform way too easily from just sunlight/ambient heat.

And prices are now easily 100% more over the point of what I felt comfortable paying. There is no amount of greater detail that is going to offset those two concerns from me

I thought I would wait and give it a chance before commenting. I went into my local GW on Friday and for the first time ever I actually got stick shock. There is a heck of a difference between talking about prices and then picking up a box and seeing the price and adding 10% tax to it. I really don;t think I am willing to pay those prices. As I have said before, double income no kids and high disposable income.

As to quality, 35% rate sounded dumb until I thought about what I saw in the store. Out of all the mini's I looked at most of them were sub-par - and here is the important bit - for the price they are asking for them.

What do you define as miscast? GW says 3%. For that to be the case they aren't including the models where part of a foot is missing or you can see the join between the cloak and armor is bubble and difficult to get to. Many of them were missing small pieces - but at that price they are charging I am expecting a lot better. As the prices have gone up so have my expectations and they simply cannot meet them. Yes, a little green stuff will fix it all - but at that price I am not expecting to have to do it.

By the way, what made me laugh was the huge slip miscast in the model cabinet for all to see - part of the marneus Calgar box set.

agnosto wrote:

mikhaila wrote:
Guess I got a pretty damn good batch of Finecast. Out of 200 blisters I've called in about 2 of them. Had one box get returned by someone and we replaced it. That's out of a couple dozen boxes sold.

35% is pretty damn big exaggeration IMO. Haven't heard of any independent retailers with anything like that. And bitching on retailer forums makes Dakka look quite mellow in comparison. If people had problems, they be screaming.

Yeah, 35% seems like internet hyperbole.
...

About one in three of the larger, complex models, is what a GW staff member told me when I asked about the miscasts. The miscast rate on the smaller models was not as bad.

I don't understand why they can't use the same material they use for all of their other plastic stuff? For example, the material used in Dark Eldar Warriors, Wyches, Space Marine Tac Squad, etc. I have only ever seen one problem with those and that was with one of my Dark Eldar Raiders where the front part that joins together looked like it was partially melted (I had people think that I melted it on purpose to look like battle damage ). Other than that, I have never really had a problem with that material.