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What's the change in dice? Would expect 2-3 of each type (injury, rapid fire, d6) and a single scatter?

I think what people are trying to understand is why the dice sets went from

3 - Pip / icon dice
1 - Scatter die
2 - Firepower dice
2 - Injury dice

to most of the house dice sets being

3 - Pip / icon dice
1 - Scatter die
1 - Firepower die
3 - Injury dice

Well, bums.

Book shipped to local store, as I was away galavanting this weekend. Intended to pick it up ASAP.

But, of course....Lockdown. Need to find out if my local store is opening Wednesday or not.

Lockdown theoretically doesn't start 'til Thursday down in England, does it?

Baxx - thanks for the list. Are Orlock throwing knives still Toxin weapons, or are they just sharp bits of metal? That would make sense for their strength to be S.

Indeed. But, that doesn’t rule out my local store not opening this week :(

I hope it’s not the case! Already can’t see my Lass for four weeks now, so to not have my new sourcebook would be insult to injury.

 Graphite wrote:
Lockdown theoretically doesn't start 'til Thursday down in England, does it?

Baxx - thanks for the list. Are Orlock throwing knives still Toxin weapons, or are they just sharp bits of metal? That would make sense for their strength to be S.

Well it’s literal that it doesn’t start till Thursday as opposed to theoretical.
But yeah I guess some stores might just choose not to open (though I’d think get all the money they can!)


I’d say it makes sense a leader gets 1 more dog than champions, thematic even (better at controlling more together or whatever).
The weapon difference for prices. Doesn’t seem crazy, has happened in many GW games hasn’t it? 40k always had differences, because one unit may synergise with a weapon better etc? Though I don’t know, is that not the case in the other House of books?

No, fighter-specific discounts are not used in Necromunda before. There have been some similar minor deviations in point costs which probably is the same error. In particular the Stun grenade: Escher (25). Goliath Leader & Stimmer (25), Goliath normal Champion (15). Trading post (15).

So if you want a stun grenade, buy it from the trading post, or have a champion buy it and give it to the leader? The game could need some rebalance and tweaking of costs, but this is just random mistakes made by people who don't care about consistency or quality control.

Why is Orlock the only gang where rank affects the number of house pets? No other gang has this. The difference in limitation has literally no effect on any games (who takes 3 dogs on a single fighter anyway?). You can have a million rats attached to a fighter (in addition to a wide selection of other dogs, cats and creatures), but cyber-mastiffs now have super detailed micro adjustments? Sorry I don't buy this.

This isn't the same as any other game. This is insanely complicated! Trading Post & Black Market and house list which is now split into individual fighters. An item ends up having multiple differente costs. Trading Post could be cheaper than the house list, so why buy from house list (other than having to make a fairly easy roll of 7+, 8+ or 9+ on 2D6 after any non-common items after a battle)? Orlock lists items like master-crafted two-handed hammer, but this is common from the trading post, any leader or champion from any gang can buy this, regardless of whether it's listed in their equipment list or not. Then you have two completely meaningless distinction of items of the Enforcer list. Enforcers have explicit access to the Trading Post, so most items on the Palanite list can be taken by Subjugators and vica versa. A Palanite can have subjugator armour and a subjugator can have palanite armour. A subjugator can have boltgun and palanite can have grenade launcher. Looks like it's complicatede for the purpose of being complicated.

Baxx: ” complicated for the purpose of being complicated.”

Yes, I actually think this is the case.
Separate ”Books of” needs to be filled with rules and tables - and this (redundancy regarding stats/costs) combined with a total lack of quality control and an utter disregard for community input will continue producing (a lot of) errors. Errors that GW/FW will claim are as intended :(

Necromunda is still my favourite game system though (despite its flaws) but our group play ”in storytelling mode” i.e. really casual - and also rely heavily on the excellent work done by Baxx.

Baxx wrote:

This isn't the same as any other game. This is insanely complicated! Trading Post & Black Market and house list which is now split into individual fighters. An item ends up having multiple differente costs. Trading Post could be cheaper than the house list, so why buy from house list (other than having to make a fairly easy roll of 7+, 8+ or 9+ on 2D6 after any non-common items after a battle)? Orlock lists items like master-crafted two-handed hammer, but this is common from the trading post, any leader or champion from any gang can buy this, regardless of whether it's listed in their equipment list or not. Then you have two completely meaningless distinction of items of the Enforcer list. Enforcers have explicit access to the Trading Post, so most items on the Palanite list can be taken by Subjugators and vica versa. A Palanite can have subjugator armour and a subjugator can have palanite armour. A subjugator can have boltgun and palanite can have grenade launcher. Looks like it's complicatede for the purpose of being complicated.

Well, yeah. That's how trade works IRL.

It's not a mistake, it's a design choice. You may not agree with it, but that doesn't make it wrong in itself. You just don't agree with it.

Discounts existed before at the clan level. It wasn't simple already. Necromunda is indeed a game quite detailed and overstuffed with complicated things. These "House of X" books just keep going down that road.

I think that's part of what makes Necromunda a great game. It's certainly not beginner friendly, but at least these "House of X" books make it so that you have everything concerning your house in a single book. It's a Necromunda army book. That some fighters have better access to particular weapons with discount prices than other is an interesting feature. Means they're encouraged to use these weapons in comparison to the others members of their gang, that's all.

Different costs have been a thing for years. Tyranids have several weapons that vary in cost depending on if its a gaunt taking scything talons or a monstrous creature etc...

 Overread wrote:
Different costs have been a thing for years. Tyranids have several weapons that vary in cost depending on if its a gaunt taking scything talons or a monstrous creature etc...

But a Hormagaunt can't give it's scything talons to a Carnifex.


Having multiple costs doesn't even actually add any extra options - because why would you buy the more expensive version? It's just the illusion of choice.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

Having multiple costs doesn't even actually add any extra options - because why would you buy the more expensive version? It's just the illusion of choice.

Because you can't take all types of fighters having discounts as you want in Necromunda and that's the point ?

There is still a choice, but you have a small advantage if you take the discounted weapon on the right fighter, that's all.

Some of you are missing the point. Gang discount is a thing and has been since that 5 credit Escher lasgun 3 years ago. Escher and Goliath got intended house discounts for sure, but no fighter class discounts! Why would Orlock be the only gang? And why would it be for something as meaningless as 5 credits more expensive combat shotgun for the arms master? Having worked extensively with the rules in all books, this is an obvious copy-paste error in my opinion. Saying it's intended is to me the same as saying combi grenade launcher not having one-shot and combi for Orlock is an intended feature to distinguish Orlock as someone who produce more grenades or what ever. Anyway, it is so minor it probably doesn't have much effect. I am just annoyed since fighter specific discounts has never been a thing in any books so far, and if it is intended, it should be more interesting and meaningful.

He's right.

Gangs get discounts on certain items compared to other gangs, not other types of fighters within the same gang.

Doing that doesn't make any sense. You'd just buy at the lower price and give it to the other guy.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
He's right.

Gangs get discounts on certain items compared to other gangs, not other types of fighters within the same gang.

Doing that doesn't make any sense. You'd just buy at the lower price and give it to the other guy.

Normal rules says you can’t swap weapons between gangers, so that’s not an issue. Now loads of campaigns ignore that particular rule, but that doesn’t invalidate the concept of it.

The rules are not as clear as you suggest on that topic. As far as I remember the swapping of weapons was confusing and self-contradictory. Not sure if that's changed or not, but I could look it up.

Weapons are bound to a fighter unless that person is dead, in that case you got 5 credit discount for killing your champ and took his gun.

Chopstick wrote:
Weapons are bound to a fighter unless that person is dead, in that case you got 5 credit discount for killing your champ and took his gun.

Exactly. This rule is crystal clear and there is no confusion about that. It's repeated in all "House of..." books in the "new equipment" section in the House gang list rules before the fighter profiles.

The other case is when you decide to voluntarily remove the fighter from your gang list, in case all of his weapons go into the gang stash - but since you don't gain his credit cost back, it's absolutely not interesting to use that just to gain a 5 credit discount on a gun.

The real "issue" with different weapon costs between fighters of the same gang only appears if you modified this rule with a house rule allowing you to freely swap weapons between gangers. But then, that's an issue brought by the players, not the GW rule designers.

Sarouan wrote:

Baxx wrote:

This isn't the same as any other game. This is insanely complicated! Trading Post & Black Market and house list which is now split into individual fighters. An item ends up having multiple differente costs. Trading Post could be cheaper than the house list, so why buy from house list (other than having to make a fairly easy roll of 7+, 8+ or 9+ on 2D6 after any non-common items after a battle)? Orlock lists items like master-crafted two-handed hammer, but this is common from the trading post, any leader or champion from any gang can buy this, regardless of whether it's listed in their equipment list or not. Then you have two completely meaningless distinction of items of the Enforcer list. Enforcers have explicit access to the Trading Post, so most items on the Palanite list can be taken by Subjugators and vica versa. A Palanite can have subjugator armour and a subjugator can have palanite armour. A subjugator can have boltgun and palanite can have grenade launcher. Looks like it's complicatede for the purpose of being complicated.

Well, yeah. That's how trade works IRL.

It's not a mistake, it's a design choice. You may not agree with it, but that doesn't make it wrong in itself. You just don't agree with it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
He's right.

Gangs get discounts on certain items compared to other gangs, not other types of fighters within the same gang.

Doing that doesn't make any sense. You'd just buy at the lower price and give it to the other guy.

Heh.Trying to link "per ganger" prices on equipment with IRL markets... that's something alright.

For some reason I've never gotten a discount at the supermarket by showing them my ID.

 Albertorius wrote:
Heh.Trying to link "per ganger" prices on equipment with IRL markets... that's something alright.

I don't know what you're getting at.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Heh.Trying to link "per ganger" prices on equipment with IRL markets... that's something alright.

I don't know what you're getting at.

No, it wasn't you, sorry. I mean that it was argued that having prices per type of fighter was "how trade works IRL". I was agreeing with you, I'll add the proper quote to make it clearer.

Ah. No problem.

 Genoside07 wrote:
I think what people are trying to understand is why the dice sets went from

3 - Pip / icon dice
1 - Scatter die
2 - Firepower dice
2 - Injury dice

to most of the house dice sets being

3 - Pip / icon dice
1 - Scatter die
1 - Firepower die
3 - Injury dice

Can confirm, that's what's in the House of Iron dice. Bizarre choice to have 1 FP and 3 Injury. But not the greatest problem in the world.

Buy multiple sets, problem solved


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sarouan wrote:

Exactly. This rule is crystal clear and there is no confusion about that. It's repeated in all "House of..." books in the "new equipment" section in the House gang list rules before the fighter profiles.

Crystal clear is a stretch when you also got stuff like this:

"Should any fighter purchase new weapons or Wargear, old weapons or Wargear may be added to the Stash."
-Page 116, N18 Gangs of the Underhive

How does the "everything is working as intended" crowd explain items in house lists that are more expensive than in the trading post that the same models have access to?

Baxx wrote:
Buy multiple sets, problem solved


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sarouan wrote:

Exactly. This rule is crystal clear and there is no confusion about that. It's repeated in all "House of..." books in the "new equipment" section in the House gang list rules before the fighter profiles.

Crystal clear is a stretch when you also got stuff like this:

"Should any fighter purchase new weapons or Wargear, old weapons or Wargear may be added to the Stash."
-Page 116, N18 Gangs of the Underhive

Well, you know, "Necromunda" brand of crystal clear...

Yeah but shouldn't people be playing New Orlock using the "new equipment" rule from their book instead of the old one?

I mean if i can interchange rule back and forth between book to get the best of both worlds, i'd buy the Orlock Juve from Gang from the Underhive because they cost 5 credit less. Or I just go above and beyond and play Underhive Escher with 25 credit plasma pistol.

But for Van Saar or Delaque or some you technically can still "cheese" using that rule.

Chopstick wrote:
Yeah but shouldn't people be playing New Orlock using the "new equipment" rule from their book instead of the old one?

Does that rule preclude the use of the regular Trading Post & Black Market?

Serious question, I don't have any of the new gang codexes

Baxx wrote:

Crystal clear is a stretch when you also got stuff like this:

"Should any fighter purchase new weapons or Wargear, old weapons or Wargear may be added to the Stash."
-Page 116, N18 Gangs of the Underhive

Well, I guess you didn't read the New Equipment rules in House of Iron page 32, then. It's not compatible with what the Trade Post said.

Doesn't mean it doesn't apply to other gangs who didn't have their "House of" book already. Because gangers have different rules in the "House of" books now.


But then, TBH, I consider the Necromunda rulebooks more like a sandbox to play with whatever is relevant at the time I play, a bit like a roleplaying game.

And yeah, I guess you can still play with the Gang of the Underhive book only if you choose to. Half the gangs have no choice so far, anyway.

Sarouan wrote:

Baxx wrote:

Crystal clear is a stretch when you also got stuff like this:

"Should any fighter purchase new weapons or Wargear, old weapons or Wargear may be added to the Stash."
-Page 116, N18 Gangs of the Underhive

Well, I guess you didn't read the New Equipment rules in House of Iron page 32, then. It's not compatible with what the Trade Post said.

Is this the rule? This seems to be from House of Chains:

NEW EQUIPMENT
During a campaign, gangs may gain new equipment, either by purchasing it from the Trading Post or Black Market, or as a result of Boons. These items are added to the gang’s Stash and may be distributed among fighters during any post-battle sequence:

• Any fighter may discard any Wargear they are equipped with in favour of new Wargear. Any Wargear discarded in this way is placed in the gang’s Stash and may be given to other fighters.
• No fighter may discard a weapon. Underhive gangers become attached to their weapons of choice and would rather horde weapons than discard them.
• Fighters with the Gang Fighter (X) special rule that do not also have the Tools of the Trade special rule cannot be given a new weapon if it would take them above the limit of three weapons carried.
• Fighters with the Tools of the Trade special rule can be given more than three weapons as they can have multiple Fighter cards, each representing a different ‘equipment set’ , as described below.

If this is the case, it seems that gangers cannot discard weapons anymore, right? But they could still buy new ones using the regular Trading Post.

That... seems to be an iffy patch, at best ^^