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Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Stux wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
How hard is it to simply wait before losing our minds? We have 2 days of april left. How hard is wait that 2 days? Play game or two. Paint unit or two. Read a book. Watch couple movies. Learn game of go. Lots of things you can do. It's only a faq. Not salvation of mankind we are waiting. GW isn't even late from deadline here.
I'm looking forward to starting a new army for a about a month now. There is no way I am starting a new army with a faq about to drop.
So yeah, I wish we didn't have to wait this long.


Really though?

Because it could all change again in a matter of months. Just get what you like.

Unless you're planning to make waves on the tournament scene (where you expect to regularly buy whole new armies anyway) this behaviour doesn't make much sense to me.
GSC is a new enough codex that a fair few things could change in the FAQ.
   
Made in us
Sinewy Scourge




Karol wrote:
I don't think it would significantly impact sales. Outside of the Dakka echo chamber, people are a lot less bothered about FAQ dates. The group for my FLGS isn't talking about it at all.

I envy you then. People here talk about nothing else. Two people didn't start armies because of FAQ. I myself lost all hope that GW is ever going to fix my army. Now I just hope they make marines that look like GK, are good, and look a bit the same. I mean if the game is good according to them, then they are never going to change bad factions.
That's deathwatch.... Just repaint them, no need to even convert.

Example @ ~1000 points:

HQ
Watchmaster (Use someone with a Nemesis Halberd)
Terminator Librarian (Use a terminator Librarian)

Troops

3x Veterans
Watch Sergent w/ Storm bolter and power weapon (Strike Sergeant)
6x Veteranas with Stormbolter and Power Weapon (Strikes)
2x Terminators (Terminators)
Vanguard Veteran with Heavy Thunderhammer (Use a guy with a Nemesis Hammer)

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/04/28 13:01:39


 
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





Karol wrote:
I don't think it would significantly impact sales. Outside of the Dakka echo chamber, people are a lot less bothered about FAQ dates. The group for my FLGS isn't talking about it at all.

I envy you then. People here talk about nothing else. Two people didn't start armies because of FAQ. I myself lost all hope that GW is ever going to fix my army. Now I just hope they make marines that look like GK, are good, and look a bit the same. I mean if the game is good according to them, then they are never going to change bad factions.


People around here buy the kits they like, then use the rules to get the most out of them. If the rules change, it's no biggy usually. Because we all still have models we like and are proud of.

Wanting to win games is probably the worst reason to get into this hobby, in all honesty.
   
Made in gb
Freaky Flayed One





If I had to guess what's going on, it's the left hand (FAQ writers) not talking to the right hand (Slaanesh Writers) AGAIN. My necrodermis-foil hat theory is that when the FAQ writers took an extra week's extension on the deadline for their "minor changes" because muh Adepticon, they blundered into the Slaanesh release (which DOES deserve to be conducted without the FAQ sucking up oxygen) and marketing correctly told them to wait the gak up, "we have cool daemon models to sell you nerds".

Wanting to win games is probably the worst reason to get into this hobby, in all honesty.


Wanting your army not to be garbage =/= wanting to win.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/28 13:18:55


 
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





 Phaeron Gukk wrote:

Wanting to win games is probably the worst reason to get into this hobby, in all honesty.


Wanting your army not to be garbage =/= wanting to win.


That's fair.

All I'm saying though is that the pendulum swings. There will always be imbalance, and it will inevitably change who is on top and who is at the bottom eventually.

It helps a lot if you can make peace with that fact.
   
Made in gb
Freaky Flayed One





On the one you're probably right, but on the other hand GW is not some dinky little indie company. They've been doing this (and ONLY this) for donkey's years and so repeating the same mistakes over and over again, from massive gulfs between armies to dumb-dumb Codex misprints and perpetually delaying FAQs, just comes off as rank incompetence masked by an over-forgiving fan-base at this point.
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





 Phaeron Gukk wrote:
On the one you're probably right, but on the other hand GW is not some dinky little indie company. They've been doing this (and ONLY this) for donkey's years and so repeating the same mistakes over and over again, from massive gulfs between armies to dumb-dumb Codex misprints and perpetually delaying FAQs, just comes off as rank incompetence masked by an over-forgiving fan-base at this point.


I'm sorry you feel that way. I have a great time with these games.

I firmly believe them to not be incompetent. I think it's a mismatch of priorities between some sectors of the player base and the developers, combined with an underestimation of the difficulty of these things.

That isn't to say they never straight mess up of course. Only that from where I am it is never anywhere near as bad as people reading this forum might assume.
   
Made in gb
Freaky Flayed One





Salt aside, I DO have fun with this game post-CA, now that I'm not paying extortionate prices for my units. And for some rules fixes, I realize that GW might need some extra time. Codex re-writes aren't coming any time soon, because rushing them out was the problem in the first place.
But taking extra time to fix the 3++ Castellan? Or the disproportionate benefit of -1 to hit faction benefits? Printing an "updated" codex with no updates to the unit point costs? And leaving all of this to fester in 2019, with electronic FAQs? I love playing this game, but I hate feeling like I'm a bit of a mug for giving GW money.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/28 13:48:43


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut







Martel732 wrote:
You have more faith than I do. I'm worried death beam will be permanent. I mean Castellans have scared me off big stuff, but it sucks to get say, Dante death beamed. It's a cheap power and adds to the misery of 8th ed.

If this edition is so miserable for you, please do what you said you were going to do months ago and take a break from playing (and posting on here) for a while...

2019 Plog - Dysartes Twitches - 2019 Output

My Twitch stream - going live at 7pm GMT Tuesday & Thursday, 12pm Sunday (work permitting).

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
 
   
Made in us
Missionary On A Mission



Ottawa

I expect this FAQ will cause a stir no matter what. For those so upset about having to wait, the FAQ means more to them than anything else. I suppose even if I'll never understand why, it doesn't change that it does. Perhaps it's for the same reason why some posters put so much weight on how their faction performs on top tables even though they themselves aren't top table tournament players. I guess in many ways it's the idea that some people are fans of the game while others are fans of their faction, and are invested in that identity. If I compare it to sports fans, I can see major similarities.

As such, this FAQ will be a disappointment for most, with the small caveat that the only thing that can bring a majority of the community together will be a nerf to the villains.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Lemondish wrote:
I expect this FAQ will cause a stir no matter what. For those so upset about having to wait, the FAQ means more to them than anything else. I suppose even if I'll never understand why, it doesn't change that it does. Perhaps it's for the same reason why some posters put so much weight on how their faction performs on top tables even though they themselves aren't top table tournament players. I guess in many ways it's the idea that some people are fans of the game while others are fans of their faction, and are invested in that identity. If I compare it to sports fans, I can see major similarities.

As such, this FAQ will be a disappointment for most, with the small caveat that the only thing that can bring a majority of the community together will be a nerf to the villains.

I think you are reading too far into it. How the faction performs on the top tables is reflective of the "performance ceiling" of the faction. Most players only play one or two factions, and they don't like having their playtime being wasted by playing a faction that is at a severe disadvantage compared to other factions. I think most would agree that a loss can still be fun if it is a "fair fight", but some of the factions are so imbalanced that it is equivalent to a 12 year old stepping into a boxing ring vs Mike Tyson. That isn't fun.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




w1zard wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
I expect this FAQ will cause a stir no matter what. For those so upset about having to wait, the FAQ means more to them than anything else. I suppose even if I'll never understand why, it doesn't change that it does. Perhaps it's for the same reason why some posters put so much weight on how their faction performs on top tables even though they themselves aren't top table tournament players. I guess in many ways it's the idea that some people are fans of the game while others are fans of their faction, and are invested in that identity. If I compare it to sports fans, I can see major similarities.

As such, this FAQ will be a disappointment for most, with the small caveat that the only thing that can bring a majority of the community together will be a nerf to the villains.

I think you are reading too far into it. How the faction performs on the top tables is reflective of the "performance ceiling" of the faction. Most players only play one or two factions, and they don't like having their playtime being wasted by playing a faction that is at a severe disadvantage compared to other factions. I think most would agree that a loss can still be fun if it is a "fair fight", but some of the factions are so imbalanced that it is equivalent to a 12 year old stepping into a boxing ring vs Mike Tyson. That isn't fun.

Very much this, it's hard to have a fun game when it's supposed to be a fun game and your not trying list gets rofl stomped by their random selection of units.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





AngryAngel80 wrote:
So, what I'm to believe is this document that " won't do much " is delayed because all of these not big changes would somehow take the thunder out of some releases ? Someone has to be kidding here somewhere.


It doesn't matter if they aren't "big changes". Half the forum is still going to lose their collective gak all at the same time.

Just look at people posting about not getting the FAQs yet and you'll see what I mean.

   
Made in gb
Wicked Warp Spider






I would wish for a slight point drop for all the different Eldar units that have been priced up due to SFD being what it was.

Maybe I can now put more of my models on the table...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Argive wrote:
I would wish for a slight point drop for all the different Eldar units that have been priced up due to SFD being what it was.

Maybe I can now put more of my models on the table...


They were not priced in accordance with SfD...

   
Made in gb
Commanding Lordling





 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Argive wrote:
I would wish for a slight point drop for all the different Eldar units that have been priced up due to SFD being what it was.

Maybe I can now put more of my models on the table...


They were not priced in accordance with SfD...


If Strength From Death didn't factor into the old Ynnari's best units' points costs at all, then that was a massive oversight on GW's part.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Burnage wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Argive wrote:
I would wish for a slight point drop for all the different Eldar units that have been priced up due to SFD being what it was.

Maybe I can now put more of my models on the table...


They were not priced in accordance with SfD...


If Strength From Death didn't factor into the old Ynnari's best units' points costs at all, then that was a massive oversight on GW's part.


Why would the cost any drukhari, craftworld, or clowns as if they had SfD by default? That would be pretty stupid for anyone not playing Ynnari.

   
Made in gb
Freaky Flayed One





GW is very fond of balancing units according to the most bleeding-edge version of their use (Space Marines and Guilliman, Chaos gak and Cacophony, etc.), so I'm certain it's the case here too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/28 23:17:56


 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Lets not pretend Dark Reapers weren't nerfed because of Ynnari.

Now, is not like they weren't too good even without Ynnari. Maybe they deserve a slighly price drop now that they can't double shoot.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Warp Spider






Ohh im sure they were priced entirely on their own merits.(cmon... rly)

A powerful ability that made them activate twice was not an issue and did not reflect in their eventual point increase??? Well then colour me a silly wally. Must have imagined all ll the moaning and whinging about reapers/sp being too good because of sfd mechanics. And people will tell me CA point change had nothing to do with it...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Burnage wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Argive wrote:
I would wish for a slight point drop for all the different Eldar units that have been priced up due to SFD being what it was.

Maybe I can now put more of my models on the table...


They were not priced in accordance with SfD...


If Strength From Death didn't factor into the old Ynnari's best units' points costs at all, then that was a massive oversight on GW's part.
Ynarri and non-Ynnari units cost the same. So ofcourse Ynnari either didn't pay for SfD or payed for it while not having it other detachments.
And yes that is a massive oversight. Why do you think people have been complaining about Ynnari all this time?
   
Made in is
Courageous Beastmaster




Iceland

The units that saw the greatest point hikes were Ynnari stables, while non-Ynnari stables got a price drop. That was the pattern so it does appear some units were costed according to the Ynnari model rather than not. Also, if people had been following some Eldar threads they would have noticed that there were CW players asking for GW to give Ynnari its own points table so as to not nerf CW/Drukhari units just because they are overperforming in Ynnari lists.

Cypher | Craftworlds | Drukhari | Dark Angels | Necrons | Emperor's Children(30k/40k) | Tyranids | Orks | Death Guard | Sisters of Battle

Daughters of Khaine | Blades of Khorne | Stormcast Eternals | Flesh-Eater Courts | Idoneth Deepkin
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Galas wrote:
Lets not pretend Dark Reapers weren't nerfed because of Ynnari.

Now, is not like they weren't too good even without Ynnari. Maybe they deserve a slighly price drop now that they can't double shoot.


They weren't. They were 5 points base in the index. In no world is that even reasonable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ordana wrote:
Ynarri and non-Ynnari units cost the same. So ofcourse Ynnari either didn't pay for SfD or payed for it while not having it other detachments.
And yes that is a massive oversight. Why do you think people have been complaining about Ynnari all this time?


Right...which is why SfD got nerfed.

That doesn't mean the units were ever priced as if SfD was a factor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Eldarsif wrote:
The units that saw the greatest point hikes were Ynnari stables, while non-Ynnari stables got a price drop. That was the pattern so it does appear some units were costed according to the Ynnari model rather than not. Also, if people had been following some Eldar threads they would have noticed that there were CW players asking for GW to give Ynnari its own points table so as to not nerf CW/Drukhari units just because they are overperforming in Ynnari lists.


This misses the forest for the trees.

The units that got hikes were the most point efficient and so consequently the best picks for Ynnari.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/04/29 00:14:32


   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




San Jose, CA

Eldarsif wrote:The units that saw the greatest point hikes were Ynnari stables, while non-Ynnari stables got a price drop. That was the pattern so it does appear some units were costed according to the Ynnari model rather than not. Also, if people had been following some Eldar threads they would have noticed that there were CW players asking for GW to give Ynnari its own points table so as to not nerf CW/Drukhari units just because they are overperforming in Ynnari lists.


I can get behind this and makes more sense than not. I dont really care about how strong they are as a faction in competitive play. I really like the lore of Scheiss hits the fan and eldar need to come together. it's really the only reason I even started collecting them(other than the triumvirate looking dope).

GW really needs to figure out what they want Ynarri to be(as an identity). The WD index might be a placeholder until CA19 or an inevitable ynarri codex.

For Marines I do hope they get a couple of new strats or beta rules(ala bolter rule).
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





"muh dark reapers were 5 points" has got to be the most facepalm-worthy balance complaint in 8th edition. Like, come on. It's a model that comes with a compulsory weapon, and that weapon is an extremely powerful option on a character...so obviously almost all their cost was shifted over to the weapon so it could be pricy on the character.

Let's stop repeating this stupid line, we're like 2 years into the edition if you haven't figured out how Dark Reapers are priced by now and how they're not a "five point body" i cannot help you.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:


Why would the cost any drukhari, craftworld, or clowns as if they had SfD by default? That would be pretty stupid for anyone not playing Ynnari.


Because they have been designing games for what 20-30 years, and any ability that lets you get an extra turn of anything in a IGUG setting on super efficient unit is like getting free points?



muh dark reapers were 5 points" has got to be the most facepalm-worthy balance complaint in 8th edition. Like, come on. It's a model that comes with a compulsory weapon, and that weapon is an extremely powerful option on a character...so obviously almost all their cost was shifted over to the weapon so it could be pricy on the character.

they are still cheap for what they do at their cost, and with the buff abilities they have. A SB armed GK termintor is 40pts. Has no doom, no guide and no stratagams worth using on him, or a alaitoc buff etc. They are not costed right. And probably never will. From little expiriance I have with w40k, everything GW gives a point cost, either makes it cost not enough point or too many point to be worth taking.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Karol wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:


Why would the cost any drukhari, craftworld, or clowns as if they had SfD by default? That would be pretty stupid for anyone not playing Ynnari.


Because they have been designing games for what 20-30 years, and any ability that lets you get an extra turn of anything in a IGUG setting on super efficient unit is like getting free points?


That still fails to answer the question. How exactly do you price a unit that may or may not receive a very strong buff?

Do you raise the cost of the unit for gaks and giggles? Or do you do what GW just did to Ynnari and remove the potential for overwhelming buffs?

they are still cheap for what they do at their cost, and with the buff abilities they have. A SB armed GK termintor is 40pts. Has no doom, no guide and no stratagams worth using on him, or a alaitoc buff etc. They are not costed right. And probably never will. From little expiriance I have with w40k, everything GW gives a point cost, either makes it cost not enough point or too many point to be worth taking.


Why are you trying to compare a terminator to a back line heavy weapon squad? Dark Reapers can't cast or deny with a +1, shoot from out of LOS, can't get +1 to wound in melee, can't get a 4++, and don't have 2 wounds or terminator armor. Nor do they have access to full rerolls to hit, S5 AP1 Stormbolters, or force weapons.

   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Because comparing him to a 40pts hvy weapon guy from my codex would be kind of a unfair. A termintor at least has something in his favour.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Karol wrote:
Because comparing him to a 40pts hvy weapon guy from my codex would be kind of a unfair. A termintor at least has something in his favour.


But they're not even remotely the same type of unit. You also seem to have missed the point about only listing the benefits of one of the units and not the other in order to make the comparison seem more in the Eldar's favour.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/29 08:13:52


 
   
Made in is
Courageous Beastmaster




Iceland

This misses the forest for the trees.

The units that got hikes were the most point efficient and so consequently the best picks for Ynnari.


Yes and no. The Dark Reaper point increase I can get behind as I agree that was an overperforming unit on all accounts. What people are now asking: Was the increase too steep or not? We will start seeing more details about that as the Ynnari Index becomes official and whether Dark Reapers will see use in the future. Going over most recent tourney lists it seems mostly Ynnari were picking Reapers while Asuryani players were picking other things.

Shining Spears, however, were riding the Ynnari wave from start to finish. It's why GW didn't hit them as hard as Dark Reapers while Dark Reapers were dominating with the double-shooting at their old point cost. Regarding Shining Spears you will rarely see them in non-Ynnari lists as you are just not getting the best bang for the buck.

Cypher | Craftworlds | Drukhari | Dark Angels | Necrons | Emperor's Children(30k/40k) | Tyranids | Orks | Death Guard | Sisters of Battle

Daughters of Khaine | Blades of Khorne | Stormcast Eternals | Flesh-Eater Courts | Idoneth Deepkin
 
   
 
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