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From what I understand Dante allows for Sanguine Guard as troops. from what I understand he had 40 Dudes... didint seem the game, just recieved a play by play after the game from the redshirt and the guy he played. Lol i didint have time to go to in depth with the codex.... i rely on Dakka members for that. All I can say with 100% certainty is DSR, for all Jetpack units. Vanguard Vets will actually be fun to use.

does anyone know Furioso Librarian's stats for BS,I and A??

i only understood it has WS6..

Lurker wrote:
I thought Sanguine Guard were 5men to a sqaud, and thus with Dante the max you could take would be 30?
Or were you just describing in brief rather than providing accurate details?
???

I guess if Dante allows for Sanguine Guard to be taken as troops, that doesn't necessarily mean they can't be taken as elites as well. So 3 as elites and 6 as troops allows for a max of 45 theoretically.

The Watcher in the Dark wrote:

Lurker wrote:
I thought Sanguine Guard were 5men to a sqaud, and thus with Dante the max you could take would be 30?
Or were you just describing in brief rather than providing accurate details?
???

I guess if Dante allows for Sanguine Guard to be taken as troops, that doesn't necessarily mean they can't be taken as elites as well. So 3 as elites and 6 as troops allows for a max of 45 theoretically.

But at what cost?! WHAT COST?!?

I dont know what points they were playing at.... lol lets say 1800...but really who cares that would be amazing to field and play...

Duh!
Thanks for that.
I think I decided to give up thinking for a while!

The_0perator wrote:Lurker

I saw the codex on Friday and was having this discussion with a redshirt. The Jetpacks provide any unit equppied with them the "Descent of Angels" SR. So any unit with a jump pack, or that can be equipped with a jump pack has the 1D6 scatter. Jumppacks might actually become tactically viable. not super competitive. Actually the red shirt played a MECH marine list, with Dante and 40 sanguine guard and 2 preds, and managed a very hard hitting game. ended in a draw. And thats not remotely the most competitive build out there.

where did he see that? most units with a jetpack have DoA, but Vanguard don't and there is no entry saying giving them a jumpack gives it to them

It's in the JUMPACK entry, in the Wargear/Armoury section...

I imagine it says something to the effect that 'Any model equipped with a jumpack has the DOA special rule'.

You won't find it in the entry for each different type of troop (I.E. Vanguard, Honor Guard) because it won't be there.

dietrich wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:I can't get over Deep Striking Land Raiders.

That's the kind've thing people say as a joke. There's that Angry Marine picture with 'Angry Marine Drop Pods', and the Pods are just Rhinos falling through the air. This is... worse than that!

And I don't care if it's powerful or whatever - the rules don't matter to me - it's just the concept I find so absurd.

Word.

Now, I need to go convert some space wolves riding giant wolves........

I see what you did there

Kveldulv wrote:

The Watcher in the Dark wrote:

Lurker wrote:
I thought Sanguine Guard were 5men to a sqaud, and thus with Dante the max you could take would be 30?
Or were you just describing in brief rather than providing accurate details?
???

I guess if Dante allows for Sanguine Guard to be taken as troops, that doesn't necessarily mean they can't be taken as elites as well. So 3 as elites and 6 as troops allows for a max of 45 theoretically.

But at what cost?! WHAT COST?!?

Don't get me wrong... just because you can theoretically do something does not mean you should. After all, it's possible to field a Tyranid army consisting of one Prime and 81 bases of Rippers and Sky-slashers... would be amusing though

Lurker wrote:It's in the JUMPACK entry, in the Wargear/Armoury section...

I imagine it says something to the effect that 'Any model equipped with a jumpack has the DOA special rule'.

You won't find it in the entry for each different type of troop (I.E. Vanguard, Honor Guard) because it won't be there.

wow good eye. thats awesome, guess ill be taking some deep striking vanguard afterall!

I'm withholding judgement until I see point values on everything. I'm a little concerned (as I always am when a new Marine codex is released) that it does remove the Vanilla niche. If Blood Angel tacticals have combat squads, heavy weapons in tacticals, Sternguard, and other "Vanilla" things, then I wonder what the balancing factor is. The only thing I've seen so far is the "loss" of the TFC and slightly more expensive TH/SS Termies.

Depending on points, I think Mechanized (Pred/Dread spam) BA is going to be nasty. What Marine player doesn't want Predators that can move and shoot, Razorbacks/Vindicators that can move 12" and fire, Dreadnoughts that can actually chew threw squads fairly quickly, and a flying LR?

its not that big a deal though, Rhinos are 20 points more expensive, Vindis are 30 pts more and the rest are a mix from 5-15 points more


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh..and the Baal Predator has the Scouts rule. Scout move 18", then move twelve, firestorm the enemy line......times 3

Personally, I love codex creep. Can't wait for my Black Templars to get a codex, after seeing what the Blood Angels got

Sergeant Horse wrote:its not that big a deal though, Rhinos are 20 points more expensive, Vindis are 30 pts more and the rest are a mix from 5-15 points more


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh..and the Baal Predator has the Scouts rule. Scout move 18", then move twelve, firestorm the enemy line......times 3

predators?? +30? +20?

BLOOD ANGELS LIST #1 THAT JUST LOOKS WRONG

HQ

Reclusiarch-Crozius, Rozarius, BP, Melta bombs

ELITE

3x Sanguinary Priests-2 w/Power Weapon

TROOPS

5xAssault Marine-1 Infernus pistol; Sgt w/Infernus pistol, Power Weapon; Razorback w/Lascannon, Twin-plasma
5xAssault Marine-1 Infernus pistol; Sgt w/Infernus pistol, Power Weapon; Razorback w/Lascannon, Twin-plasma
5xAssault Marine-1 Infernus pistol; Sgt w/Infernus pistol, Power Weapon; Razorback w/Lascannon, Twin-plasma
5xAssault Marine-1 Infernus pistol; Sgt w/Infernus pistol, Power Weapon; Razorback w/Lascannon, Twin-plasma

FAST ATTACK

Baal Predator- Twin Assault Cannon, 2xHeavy Bolter
Baal Predator- Twin Assault Cannon, 2xHeavy Bolter
Baal Predator- Twin Assault Cannon, 2xHeavy Bolter

HEAVY SUPPORT

Predator- Autocannon, 2xHeavy Bolter
Predator- Autocannon, 2xHeavy Bolter
Predator- Autocannon, 2xHeavy Bolter

-1850 even


So, We've got troops with Furious charge and Feel No Pain. We've also got a character closeby that can join whatever unit he likes so as to make that unit RR hits AND wounds in CC as well. Two power Weapons per unit on average. Each unit also features 2 Melta Weapons for heavy tank busting.

We've also got 10 fast vehicles that are all very shooty. Horde/mech/MC at range? ....no problem. If you're able to close with this list you're rewarded by getting charged by the EXCELLENT TROOPS.

Just for the record thats also 4 fast vehicles that can take objectives.

Fair? Seems a bit overgood to me.

The thought that came to me is that gets you into point black with Melta weapons real quick.

Chaplain only allows re-rolls to wound when joined to a DC squad.

And it's no tougher than one of my Space Wolf lists or a lot of the mech guard running round out there.

It would be a tough list but I think the codex itself is very well balanced.

Yup... pretty much what I'm thinking. What makes it even better is that you're not cracking those Razorbacks in CC easily as they can move and shoot.

Move + Shoot razorbacks are nice. This list would be a good match up against my mech vets. It isn't OTT though.

The other Though was is I am so glad I went with Power Fist for my Puppies

Deadshane1 wrote:I'm in.

I only need to buy 3 Baal Predators and I can run my DIY Marines as SM, SW and then BA. The variety is fantastic.

What you said about Razorbacks is cool, and initially I hadn't though of that. 100 points for 5 Assault Marines but with a 35 point discount towards the transport once they drop their jump packs is very nice. That means they actually get a las/plas Razorback and five men for 140 points. I'm not yet sure what the points increase for OCE for Razorbacks is, but if it's 15 points it's still tolerable in this case (total 155 points before buying special weapons). In any case, the best part about this is that BA can get a few relatively cheap, mechanised scoring units to support the 6 Predators and 3 Furioso Librarians I already love the look of my 3 Predators (when I'm not using 18 Long Fangs). Six Predators all lined up will be a sight to behold

Therion wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:I'm in.

I only need to buy 3 Baal Predators and I can run my DIY Marines as SM, SW and then BA. The variety is fantastic.

What you said about Razorbacks is cool, and initially I hadn't though of that. 100 points for 5 Assault Marines but with a 35 point discount towards the transport once they drop their jump packs is very nice. That means they actually get a las/plas Razorback and five men for 140 points. I'm not yet sure what the points increase for OCE for Razorbacks is, but if it's 15 points it's still tolerable in this case (total 155 points before buying special weapons). In any case, the best part about this is that BA can get a few relatively cheap, mechanised scoring units to support the 6 Predators and 3 Furioso Librarians I already love the look of my 3 Predators (when I'm not using 18 Long Fangs). Six Predators all lined up will be a sight to behold

Razorbacks are a SM power weapon (15pts ) more expensive to pay for the "Fast" characteristic.


On the side, I may be opening myself to a deluge of personal e-mails, but if you have a question about POINT COSTS about any particular unit thats simply nagging at you that you need to know....I've got the Army List at work today, not the codex...just the complete army list at the back of the book. Dont ask me for the complete list but if you PM me asking how much HB sponsons are on Preds...I'll try to get directly back to you.

So I understand that every unit with jump pack has "Descent of Angels".That is great,just great.to rereol reserves and just scatter 1 d6 + the Vanguard are cheapper,Assault squads are as per C: SM.. great!

Deadshane1 wrote:BLOOD ANGELS LIST #1 THAT JUST LOOKS WRONG

HQ

Reclusiarch-Crozius, Rozarius, BP, Melta bombs

ELITE

3x Sanguinary Priests-2 w/Power Weapon

TROOPS

5xAssault Marine-1 Infernus pistol; Sgt w/Infernus pistol, Power Weapon; Razorback w/Lascannon, Twin-plasma
5xAssault Marine-1 Infernus pistol; Sgt w/Infernus pistol, Power Weapon; Razorback w/Lascannon, Twin-plasma
5xAssault Marine-1 Infernus pistol; Sgt w/Infernus pistol, Power Weapon; Razorback w/Lascannon, Twin-plasma
5xAssault Marine-1 Infernus pistol; Sgt w/Infernus pistol, Power Weapon; Razorback w/Lascannon, Twin-plasma

FAST ATTACK

Baal Predator- Twin Assault Cannon, 2xHeavy Bolter
Baal Predator- Twin Assault Cannon, 2xHeavy Bolter
Baal Predator- Twin Assault Cannon, 2xHeavy Bolter

HEAVY SUPPORT

Predator- Autocannon, 2xHeavy Bolter
Predator- Autocannon, 2xHeavy Bolter
Predator- Autocannon, 2xHeavy Bolter

-1850 even


So, We've got troops with Furious charge and Feel No Pain. We've also got a character closeby that can join whatever unit he likes so as to make that unit RR hits AND wounds in CC as well. Two power Weapons per unit on average. Each unit also features 2 Melta Weapons for heavy tank busting.

We've also got 10 fast vehicles that are all very shooty. Horde/mech/MC at range? ....no problem. If you're able to close with this list you're rewarded by getting charged by the EXCELLENT TROOPS.

Just for the record thats also 4 fast vehicles that can take objectives.

Fair? Seems a bit overgood to me.

Fine, you dont think this is broken enough! I'm good enough at maneuvering troops within 6" for a bonus, so why quibble?




HQ

Mephiston, by the way, he's the LORD OF DEATH

ELITE

Sanguinary Priest w/Power Weapon

TROOPS

5xAssault Marine-1 Infernus pistol; Sgt w/Infernus pistol, Power Weapon; Razorback w/Lascannon, Twin-plasma
5xAssault Marine-1 Infernus pistol; Sgt w/Infernus pistol, Power Weapon; Razorback w/Lascannon, Twin-plasma
5xAssault Marine-1 Infernus pistol; Sgt w/Infernus pistol, Power Weapon; Razorback w/Lascannon, Twin-plasma
5xAssault Marine-1 Infernus pistol; Sgt w/Infernus pistol, Power Weapon; Razorback w/Lascannon, Twin-plasma

FAST ATTACK

Baal Predator- Twin Assault Cannon, 2xHeavy Bolter
Baal Predator- Twin Assault Cannon, 2xHeavy Bolter
Baal Predator- Twin Assault Cannon, 2xHeavy Bolter

HEAVY SUPPORT

Predator- Autocannon, 2xHeavy Bolter
Predator- Autocannon, 2xHeavy Bolter
Predator- Autocannon, 2xHeavy Bolter

-1850 even

BAM! Broken!

I think the Razors are sort of a weak link. They provide targets for S5, S6 and S7 weapons that would otherwise be largely ineffective. I also think the heavy support Predators should have lascannon sponsons for max mobile ownage. How about Land Raiders as troop transports?

I just want to know if assault squads can take a melta gun? Or is their only option the flamer pistols, and melta pistols?

Thanks.

I'm sorry if this has already been answered, but is there wording in there that suggests that Mephiston is in fact an IC?

Wildeyedjester wrote:I just want to know if assault squads can take a melta gun? Or is their only option the flamer pistols, and melta pistols?

Thanks.

they can take one melta gun per 5 guys, same as the other options. 10 points per melta.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alpharius wrote:I'm sorry if this has already been answered, but is there wording in there that suggests that Mephiston is in fact an IC?

In the codex, he is NOT an IC.

Think of him as a dinky hive tyrant with a small base that gets cover REALLY easily!

nope. unless it gets FAQED, he doesnt have the IC rule.

and assaults get a melta gun for every 5 assault marines