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Sorry asking an OT question ^^;

What are player's general view on using different chapter's marine to play another chapter's codex?

For example , Black Templar / Ultramarines with blood angel codex?

LunaHound wrote:Sorry asking an OT question ^^;

What are player's general view on using different chapter's marine to play another chapter's codex?

For example , Black Templar / Ultramarines with blood angel codex?

Personally, I have no problems as long as I'm told before hand(I myself am going to use the BA 'dex for Black Dragons, so I'd be a hypocrite if I said otherwise).

Go ahead and deep stike a LR near Melta-Bomb Units and if its my Wolves=Thunder Hammers

LunaHound wrote:Sorry asking an OT question ^^;

What are player's general view on using different chapter's marine to play another chapter's codex?

For example , Black Templar / Ultramarines with blood angel codex?

i don't have a problem with it but i'd prefer if an actual codex is available for someone to use it. i've been using the space wolf dex for my BAs since coming back to 40k because the pdf BA codex was so half hearted an attempt. also, i wouldn't have a problem with any marine chapter using the vanilla marine book.

A lot of eye candy in the book to be sure. People are forgetting that you actually have to win missions and need scoring units in 5th ed.

Getting jump pack assault marines as troops is great. Will allow people to use them as counter assault behind their WALLS AND WALLS of AR 13/14.

The flip side of that is that all the priests and special characters are HUGE force multipliers so it lets the people who are tired and sitting back and shooting to rush or drop across the table and tear heads off.

Embrace the new (again) red overlords!

Anpu42 wrote:Go ahead and deep stike a LR near Melta-Bomb Units and if its my Wolves=Thunder Hammers

i'm pretty sure he was comparing your comment to the stupidity of deep striking land raiders. But either way you must roll lots of 6's if your killing av13 with plasma and av 14 with thunder hammers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

blood angel wrote:A lot of eye candy in the book to be sure. People are forgetting that you actually have to win missions and need scoring units in 5th ed.

Getting jump pack assault marines as troops is great. Will allow people to use them as counter assault behind their WALLS AND WALLS of AR 13/14.

The flip side of that is that all the priests and special characters are HUGE force multipliers so it lets the people who are tired and sitting back and shooting to rush or drop across the table and tear heads off.

Embrace the new (again) red overlords!

i wish. Having played BA during 3rd in the heyday of real rhino rush i can say they were a bad ass army. People used to roll their eyes every time you said you were playing blood angels when they asked. Will we be there again? We'll find out in a few months

Anpu42 wrote:Go ahead and deep stike a LR near Melta-Bomb Units and if its my Wolves=Thunder Hammers

Who said anything about deep striking?

Frankly deep striking LR's just sounds like an easy way to lose an LR to me.

No sir, in the list I suggested your melta-bombs and t-hammers will be hitting those preds and LR's on 6's if played correctly.

Now deep striking furioso or libby dreads, that I'd try with the 4-6 pred core.

Deep striking the land raiders in a pod force has some merit, ideally you can locator beacon in the right spot to machine spirit your ap3 str 6 template to wipe squads.

Doesn't make it any less silly though, heh.

Well, not that there is anything silly about 12 death company running out of a land raider you just pinpointed right in the center of the enemy line.

Two questions for those in the know, do BA assault squads have access to razorbacks and what its the fast vehicle tax on a standard pred?

dear Lord

this is utterly a stupid and senseless codex. Know what ? We should just dump GW and get to other game makers that are far better.

Dammit, this CODEX is awesome... AWESOME. Too frigging awesome to be true. It destroys the Blood Angels background entirely, and makes them a tremendous BIG army with big fancy rules.

Who wouldn't make the BA's now ? I love and hate this codex... sincerely, I'm thinking to move to other rule sets where at least I am not having to chase the biggest codex all the time.

Land Raider deepstriking... yeah right, I want the Thunderhawk firing or at least the model. And the charachters ? Disgusting.

EDIT

let me guess... these charachters may be used also with regular SMs such like the Imperial Fists ?

If it's like this this game is totally screwed.

DOUBLE EDIT

@ Luna

who wouldn't play a normal SM army with this codex ?

From my point of view, having a Vindicator or a Predator that moves 12 and can shoot with all weapons, a Reclusiarch and the tremendous bonus rules... it's enough to play some decent games as Imperial Fists player.

Dammit, why these mutants have all these things ? Bah, I'm dissapointed, really dissapointed.

I can't get over Deep Striking Land Raiders.

That's the kind've thing people say as a joke. There's that Angry Marine picture with 'Angry Marine Drop Pods', and the Pods are just Rhinos falling through the air. This is... worse than that!

And I don't care if it's powerful or whatever - the rules don't matter to me - it's just the concept I find so absurd.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I can't get over Deep Striking Land Raiders.

That's the kind've thing people say as a joke. There's that Angry Marine picture with 'Angry Marine Drop Pods', and the Pods are just Rhinos falling through the air. This is... worse than that!

And I don't care if it's powerful or whatever - the rules don't matter to me - it's just the concept I find so absurd.

QFT.

Along with dreads ignoring the laws of physics by pulling a Baneblade, and Vindicators chasing bunkers around the battlefield.


Quick edit:
Rulewise they dont strike my as OP, but fluffwise its ugly enough for a YO mama joke.

hey this is GW who cares about background ?!

They just ruin it and destroy everything when they want. This is a big joke, am I overreacting or is it really a **** codex ?

Yo mama so fat she only scatters 1d6.

lolz


Guess i was asking for it ^^.

All of this is just terrible and horrifying

KOS wrote:All of this is just terrible and horrifying

Wait wait... let me guess your next words here...

"And the Sky is Falling!!!" ?

Seriously dude, You haven't even seen the codex, or seen the points values.

I'm not saying the codex isn't powerful, or that it is or isn't broken.

Maybe it's my rose tinted glasses, but seriously guys, this same exact thing goes on with almost every single new codex release. Supposedly they're the most broken, cheesy thing to ever be conceived, then suddenly they're here and they're good, but not ridiculous.

My bet: BA are going to be very good, but they're going to suffer from the same problem that deathwing have. Lots of cool stuff, but to get it you're going to pay through your eye teeth to get it. So, just so we're clear, this chicken little crap is starting to get really old.

Now.. just a thought here but...

Thunderhawk insertion of land raiders and other vehicles directly into combat is not only perfectly fluffy, but a viable combat tactic. Has nobody here seen the thunderhawk that can transport a landraider? Is it so inconcieveable that a *SUPERHEAVY FLYER* that has at least 3 structure points could fly in to a hot combat zone, hover a few yards off the deck, and drop the raider that short distance without damaging it. It seems to me that these vehicles would have been *DESIGNED* to do this from day one, as, ya know, orbital insertion from a battlebarge/strike cruiser via Thunderhawk would have been going on since *The Emperor walked among men*. Maybe there's a sub-section of the Codex Astarties that states "This kind of thing is acceptable, but we don't reccomend it." So most chapters that follow this tome of organization that Gulliman penned decided to not do it, but Blood Angels, being the type of combatants that they are, decided that that was a perfectly acceptable and employ it when fighting a running campaign or when they want to preform a heavy drop strike on a pinpoint location but feel they need more than just marines and dreads to handle the problem.

You can carve out a lot of ideas and options to explain a lot with fluff. Just saying something seems 'asinine' or 'stupid' without taking a few minutes to think about it is, in my opinion, pretty dumb.

Just my thoughts. Take 'em or leave 'em.

-RT-

H.B.M.C. wrote:I can't get over Deep Striking Land Raiders.

That's the kind've thing people say as a joke. There's that Angry Marine picture with 'Angry Marine Drop Pods', and the Pods are just Rhinos falling through the air. This is... worse than that!

And I don't care if it's powerful or whatever - the rules don't matter to me - it's just the concept I find so absurd.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/ulhorse/return4078-1.jpg

If you haven't seen this, check it out, deepstriking landraiders are no joke, but I can just tell that when I try to use them, I'm going to scatter 12" on to a lone grot, and role double 1's on the deepstrike mishap and lose 600+ pts worth of memphiston and tooled up sanguinary guard

LunaHound wrote: LunaHound wrote:
Sorry asking an OT question ^^;

What are player's general view on using different chapter's marine to play another chapter's codex?

For example , Black Templar / Ultramarines with blood angel codex?

Honestly, I really wouldn't care if someone used Space Wolves as Chaos Marines, so I'm totaly fine if other non-Blood Angels players wanted to bask in the awsomeness of the new codex.

But slightly more seriously, I have no problems with people using the BA codex for a Non-BA related chapter.

Edit: Typo and complements to Sergant Horse for the link

It is a bit wierd given that if you played Apocalypse and someone used a Thunderhawk Transporter to drop a Land Raider into a hot zone, you'd get huge kudos for doing something that fluffy and cool.

Yet in normal 40k where you can't get superheavy transports, the concept somehow doesn't work? As long as the Raider has a suitable points increase I don't have a problem with the rule - I just think it lacks the visual merit of an apoc game where you can actually see the transport (and by the way I wouldn't want to see this used by Blood Angel players in apoc games - the transport is there for a reason, needs paying for and can be shot down by your AA guns and interceptors. Just saying 'this LR has been magically dropped past your air defence' wouldn't work for me)

$0.02

warhammersupernerd wrote:and role double 1's on the deepstrike mishap and lose 600+ pts worth of memphiston and tooled up sanguinary guard

On a sidenote, Sanguinary Guard can't enter a Landraider, as they're jump troops. And Mephiston probably can't deep strike with a Landraider either, as he's not an Independant Character, so he could only deepstrike in one if he has the option to take a dedicated transport, but he'd be the sole occupant if that was the case.

Chimera_Calvin wrote:It is a bit wierd given that if you played Apocalypse and someone used a Thunderhawk Transporter to drop a Land Raider into a hot zone, you'd get huge kudos for doing something that fluffy and cool.

Yet in normal 40k where you can't get superheavy transports, the concept somehow doesn't work? As long as the Raider has a suitable points increase I don't have a problem with the rule - I just think it lacks the visual merit of an apoc game where you can actually see the transport (and by the way I wouldn't want to see this used by Blood Angel players in apoc games - the transport is there for a reason, needs paying for and can be shot down by your AA guns and interceptors. Just saying 'this LR has been magically dropped past your air defence' wouldn't work for me)

It's pretty much the same thing with jump infantry such as Assault Marines; when they deepstrike, they jump from a low flying transport. It's not like they deep strike through atmospheric entry. Not exactly a never done before concept.

Chimera_Calvin wrote:It is a bit wierd given that if you played Apocalypse and someone used a Thunderhawk Transporter to drop a Land Raider into a hot zone, you'd get huge kudos for doing something that fluffy and cool.

Yet in normal 40k where you can't get superheavy transports, the concept somehow doesn't work? As long as the Raider has a suitable points increase I don't have a problem with the rule - I just think it lacks the visual merit of an apoc game where you can actually see the transport (and by the way I wouldn't want to see this used by Blood Angel players in apoc games - the transport is there for a reason, needs paying for and can be shot down by your AA guns and interceptors. Just saying 'this LR has been magically dropped past your air defence' wouldn't work for me)

$0.02

Well the problem is a LR hot dropping costs nothing extra. It simply does, it simply gets past your AA defense.

The other problem is the fluff, a LR hot drop would require the Thunderhawk to hover a few meters off the ground. Ample time for me to shoot it down. But this can be done with pretty much any vehicle!

What we will see in 40k, a locator beacon for no scatter (who in his right mind would like to have his 500+ points die because they scatter on some lonely grot?) and it hits without you doing anything, or even seeing that thunderhawk.

My explanation: Since it is mention in the fluff that it can be only done with landraiders, because of their sturdiness, it hints at a hot drop mroe akin to a bomb drop. Cause how is a Land raider appearing so quickly on the battlefield without the enemy knowing ^^.


Now if you have LRs hot dropping, well have to get all Eldar and DE vehicles hot dropping too, cause they antigrav and have this fluffwiese listed, wont happen cause 40k is still written by GW.


My gripe is not the rules, but that the fluff is OTT.......

Redemption wrote:

warhammersupernerd wrote:and role double 1's on the deepstrike mishap and lose 600+ pts worth of memphiston and tooled up sanguinary guard

On a sidenote, Sanguinary Guard can't enter a Landraider, as they're jump troops. And Mephiston probably can't deep strike with a Landraider either, as he's not an Independant Character, so he could only deepstrike in one if he has the option to take a dedicated transport, but he'd be the sole occupant if that was the case.

Forgot about that, thanks! But my point being, my luck with deepstriking means I won't be hinging any plans on deepstriking landraiders, but it would be funny if that happend.

Red__Thirst wrote:

KOS wrote:All of this is just terrible and horrifying

Wait wait... let me guess your next words here...

"And the Sky is Falling!!!" ?

The Sky is already falling since they are making this monstruosity

Seriously dude, You haven't even seen the codex, or seen the points values.

I'm not saying the codex isn't powerful, or that it is or isn't broken.

Maybe it's my rose tinted glasses, but seriously guys, this same exact thing goes on with almost every single new codex release. Supposedly they're the most broken, cheesy thing to ever be conceived, then suddenly they're here and they're good, but not ridiculous.

They are stupid not ridicoulous. This codex if it's how they are telling us is DEEPLY BROKEN. I have not moaned when the Space Wolves came out nor the Tyranids nor the Imperial Guard. But this one is utterly STUPID.

You can't do things like these... this means just to sell more things, different models and breaking apart the background of a chapter. First with Space Hulk delicatessen and now with this thing that is coming out.

I'm FED UP. I can't and I shouldn't have the need to use the BA codex to use the Imperial Fists in a decent way, but there it is.

Why do they have all these bonuses ? What "vanilla" Marines should have then to use them properly still ?

My bet: BA are going to be very good, but they're going to suffer from the same problem that deathwing have. Lots of cool stuff, but to get it you're going to pay through your eye teeth to get it. So, just so we're clear, this chicken little crap is starting to get really old.

Deathwing is cool as Ravenwing but useless. Too less models, crap rules since all DAs special rules now are all in the vanilla SMs of the 5th Edition... come on.

Now.. just a thought here but...

Thunderhawk insertion of land raiders and other vehicles directly into combat is not only perfectly fluffy, but a viable combat tactic. Has nobody here seen the thunderhawk that can transport a landraider? Is it so inconcieveable that a *SUPERHEAVY FLYER* that has at least 3 structure points could fly in to a hot combat zone, hover a few yards off the deck, and drop the raider that short distance without damaging it. It seems to me that these vehicles would have been *DESIGNED* to do this from day one, as, ya know, orbital insertion from a battlebarge/strike cruiser via Thunderhawk would have been going on since *The Emperor walked among men*. Maybe there's a sub-section of the Codex Astarties that states "This kind of thing is acceptable, but we don't reccomend it." So most chapters that follow this tome of organization that Gulliman penned decided to not do it, but Blood Angels, being the type of combatants that they are, decided that that was a perfectly acceptable and employ it when fighting a running campaign or when they want to preform a heavy drop strike on a pinpoint location but feel they need more than just marines and dreads to handle the problem.

We are talking about the fact that a Thunderhawk should get over an enemy line, hover (maybe) open its hatch and permit a Land Raider to get out... are we joking ? If I'd be the enemy commander I'd shoot the damned airplane to dust with everything I have! This is broken! And if there is a thunderhawk ... why can't I use it to hit the enemy ? Are they too much concentated on opening the hatch or to release the grasps ?

Land Raider with hover engines ? Naaa come on everything is ok except this thing, it's exagerated because they had NO IDEAS.

You can carve out a lot of ideas and options to explain a lot with fluff. Just saying something seems 'asinine' or 'stupid' without taking a few minutes to think about it is, in my opinion, pretty dumb.

I've thought about it, and from a tactical and realistic view (also for the 40k) it's DUMB.

Calm the feth down, KOS. Almost everyone who has seen the codex say that the really good stuff is expensive, or is clustering around the same FOC slots, or is hampered by other restrictions (the hardest characters aren't even ICs, par example). It'll be like SW or Tyranids - people will really have to spend some effort building effective lists and you can't take all the cool stuff at once.

As for fluff sillyness... Didn't you know that BA can reroll their fluff?

In all seriousness, I think that the viable lists from this codex will play so differently from vanilla SM that it actually justifies publishing it. Fast rhinos that you still can't assault out of and DC that you can't control with chaplains put up some interesting tactical dilemmas.

I was looking over at the B&C and someone noted that the Decent of Angels (1D6 scatter on deep strike) only applies to Sanguinary Guard and Assault Marines (Dante's no scatter is different again).

Someone then looked up the Jump Pack entry and the Jump Pack entry noted that ANYTHING that has a Jump Pack has the Decent of Angels special rule.

If true, this has interesting applications on certain units, particularly Vanguard Veterans with Heroic Intervention.

Can anyone confirm?

H.B.M.C. wrote:I can't get over Deep Striking Land Raiders.

That's the kind've thing people say as a joke. There's that Angry Marine picture with 'Angry Marine Drop Pods', and the Pods are just Rhinos falling through the air. This is... worse than that!

And I don't care if it's powerful or whatever - the rules don't matter to me - it's just the concept I find so absurd.

Word.

Now, I need to go convert some space wolves riding giant wolves........

Despite my cynicism about GW continuously releasing space marines, I have to say the Blood Angels look like an excellent release. Loving the fluff (bar deep striking land raiders) the miniatures and the playstyle. Looks all very good to me. Blood Angels were my first chapter and I've liked them since second edition, I thought third edition really blanded them up so I'm happy to see them come back as something unique.
Not saying I'll start playing as them again, but definitely loving the new kits and characters. Might have to get Astaroth for old times sake.

Initially I noticed the awesome awesome price of las/plas razorbacks with assault marines inside.

Then I saw that Baal Preds are fast attack....

3 Predators is really pushing it in my opinion. Nevermind the fact that you can stir in LR's or AV13 dreads into the mix.

The codex, the more I read it, seems a bit overpowered and at first glance the strongest builds seem in NO way fluffy.






....I'm in.

Lurker

I saw the codex on Friday and was having this discussion with a redshirt. The Jetpacks provide any unit equppied with them the "Descent of Angels" SR. So any unit with a jump pack, or that can be equipped with a jump pack has the 1D6 scatter. Jumppacks might actually become tactically viable. not super competitive. Actually the red shirt played a MECH marine list, with Dante and 40 sanguine guard and 2 preds, and managed a very hard hitting game. ended in a draw. And thats not remotely the most competitive build out there.

The_0perator wrote:Lurker

I saw the codex on Friday and was having this discussion with a redshirt. The Jetpacks provide any unit equppied with them the "Descent of Angels" SR. So any unit with a jump pack, or that can be equipped with a jump pack has the 1D6 scatter. Jumppacks might actually become tactically viable. not super competitive. Actually the red shirt played a MECH marine list, with Dante and 40 sanguine guard and 2 preds, and managed a very hard hitting game. ended in a draw. And thats not remotely the most competitive build out there.

Awesome news.
Thanks Operator.


I thought Sanguine Guard were 5men to a sqaud, and thus with Dante the max you could take would be 30?
Or were you just describing in brief rather than providing accurate details?
???