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NecronLord3 wrote:I agree. In fact I noticed that my army from Adepticon 2010 would still be legal and actually could be competitive with the new 'Dex.

That means they are doing their job right with the revision.

It's a shame everyone is so hung up on Matt Ward, because the new Necron Codex sounds cool and the new units, while over the top in GW-Style are also cool.

Not cool enough for me to jump on the bandwagon but I am happy that all the skullheads will be able to destroy their hated neckbeard opponents!

Hox wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:One thing I notice is that some weapons are described as selecting a 'random' model from the unit.

Now in a squad of 20 (or 30 in the case of Orks) how do you determine which 'random' model is removed? The amount of rolls to determine a single lost model become ridiculous and if it is instead 'target a model within a randomly determined group of similarly equipped models' suddenly I see a lot of sergeants being plucked out of units by strength tests (though only a chance, I think ICs are damned if they do/dont' join a squad).

I would think in that case you would find something reasonable to do with an opponent. Maybe roll 2D6 and on like a 2 your IC is killed otherwise its a regular troop or in the case of different loadouts of guys in the squad (say 2/3 normal and 1/3 special weapons) then you would roll and on 1-4 a regular guy goes and on a 5/6 a special weapon drops. I'm sure there will be a proper and obscenely difficult way to do this with larger squads but if its casual I think simplicity will win out.

And if simplicity wins out, then the weapon gets a huge boost because it will disproportionately hit special members of the squad. Picture a squad of 30 Slugga Boyz. One of these is a Nob, and 3 have Big Shootas. How are you going to randomly allocate the hit such that the Nob has a 1/30 probability of being hit and a Big Shoota has a 1/10?

I foresee a lot of people just half-assing it and suggesting something like 1 hits the Nob, 2 or 3 a Big Shoota, the rest a Slugga Boy. That would make the Nob 5 times more likely to take the hit than he should. Unless you've got at least a d10 available I'm struggling to think of quick ways to map the squad such that the appropriate probabilities of being hit are maintained.

With a d10, and the above example squad, I'd recommend first splitting it into 3 groups of 10 each with a Big Shoota and the first also containing the Nob. Roll a d6, with 1 or 2 indicating the Nob's group was hit and 3+ one of the other two groups. Then roll a d10 with a 10 indicating the Big Shoota from the appropriate group and a 1 indicating the Nob if he's present. Of course, as soon as the unit takes a single casualty this no longer works, and in fact gets even harder to do. You'd have to essentially number every member and then roll a percentile (rerolling if it's a number that isn't present) to figure out who was hit.

Abaddon wrote:My Necrons = sold For a pretty penny too, I might add.

I guess I'll have to play something Imperial if I want any shot at GW remaining loyal to the existing fluff.

Yeah, I'm sorry the atrocious "C'tan did everything, Necrons are 1 dimensional boring killbots" got reeled in a little. I bet the person that bought your Necrons will have a ton of fun with the new book though!

What weapon has a chance of hitting a random model in an entire unit??? The only rumor i've read that has any randomness associated is the mindshackle scarabs that the Infinite carries, and it hits a random model he is Base to Base with. Which is usually 1-5 models, easily randomizable with a D6 roll.

So why do people keep raising alarms over a codex that's not even released yet, with issues that aren't even issues? Geez...

ph34r wrote:

Abaddon wrote:My Necrons = sold For a pretty penny too, I might add.

I guess I'll have to play something Imperial if I want any shot at GW remaining loyal to the existing fluff.

Yeah, I'm sorry the atrocious "C'tan did everything, Necrons are 1 dimensional boring killbots" got reeled in a little. I bet the person that bought your Necrons will have a ton of fun with the new book though!

Yeah, it is amazing everyone is upset that the Necrons are an actual RACE now with some goals and motivations beyond.


Kill... bzzt ... KILL bzzt KILL KILL KILL!!!

It was obvious from the novels involving Necrons (Damnos) and the Blood Angels Codex (Bro-fisting blood crons) that they were trying to make them more of an actual race, less of a bunch of mindless killy robots.


Edit: Keep it polite and don't make snide comments, please.

IdentifyZero wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:I agree. In fact I noticed that my army from Adepticon 2010 would still be legal and actually could be competitive with the new 'Dex.

That means they are doing their job right with the revision.

It's a shame everyone is so hung up on Matt Ward, because the new Necron Codex sounds cool and the new units, while over the top in GW-Style are also cool.

Not cool enough for me to jump on the bandwagon but I am happy that all the skullheads will be able to destroy their hated neckbeard opponents!

Yes, but had I taken 15 destroyers it will also not be legal.

Chrysis wrote:

Hox wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:One thing I notice is that some weapons are described as selecting a 'random' model from the unit.

Now in a squad of 20 (or 30 in the case of Orks) how do you determine which 'random' model is removed? The amount of rolls to determine a single lost model become ridiculous and if it is instead 'target a model within a randomly determined group of similarly equipped models' suddenly I see a lot of sergeants being plucked out of units by strength tests (though only a chance, I think ICs are damned if they do/dont' join a squad).

I would think in that case you would find something reasonable to do with an opponent. Maybe roll 2D6 and on like a 2 your IC is killed otherwise its a regular troop or in the case of different loadouts of guys in the squad (say 2/3 normal and 1/3 special weapons) then you would roll and on 1-4 a regular guy goes and on a 5/6 a special weapon drops. I'm sure there will be a proper and obscenely difficult way to do this with larger squads but if its casual I think simplicity will win out.

And if simplicity wins out, then the weapon gets a huge boost because it will disproportionately hit special members of the squad. Picture a squad of 30 Slugga Boyz. One of these is a Nob, and 3 have Big Shootas. How are you going to randomly allocate the hit such that the Nob has a 1/30 probability of being hit and a Big Shoota has a 1/10?

I foresee a lot of people just half-assing it and suggesting something like 1 hits the Nob, 2 or 3 a Big Shoota, the rest a Slugga Boy. That would make the Nob 5 times more likely to take the hit than he should. Unless you've got at least a d10 available I'm struggling to think of quick ways to map the squad such that the appropriate probabilities of being hit are maintained.

With a d10, and the above example squad, I'd recommend first splitting it into 3 groups of 10 each with a Big Shoota and the first also containing the Nob. Roll a d6, with 1 or 2 indicating the Nob's group was hit and 3+ one of the other two groups. Then roll a d10 with a 10 indicating the Big Shoota from the appropriate group and a 1 indicating the Nob if he's present. Of course, as soon as the unit takes a single casualty this no longer works, and in fact gets even harder to do. You'd have to essentially number every member and then roll a percentile (rerolling if it's a number that isn't present) to figure out who was hit.

Yes, the first line of my post was "find something reasonable to do with the opponent" but of course I want to skew the rules and win. My opponent is usually the same person who provides other things (my girlfriend) so I strive to keep things fair. You are discussing squads of 30 which are NOT the normal other than orks and nids. Almost any other squad can be effectively done on 2-4 dice (or 2 -3 10 sided dice). Im sure if you want to go crazy you can buy a die with an obscenely large number of sides if you want but I think most people will agree upon something with their opponent.

Edit: 3 seconds on google let me find 30 sided dice for $2.50. I dont think this is an issue.

If you google RNG (random number generator) you can easily fix your random-model-getting-hit problems. Just assign a number to each model, set your boundaries and go.

NecronLord3 wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:I agree. In fact I noticed that my army from Adepticon 2010 would still be legal and actually could be competitive with the new 'Dex.

That means they are doing their job right with the revision.

It's a shame everyone is so hung up on Matt Ward, because the new Necron Codex sounds cool and the new units, while over the top in GW-Style are also cool.

Not cool enough for me to jump on the bandwagon but I am happy that all the skullheads will be able to destroy their hated neckbeard opponents!

Yes, but had I taken 15 destroyers it will also not be legal.

That is what apocalypse is for. Every edition lists are invalidated.

The message is, hey guys, these new destroyers are better and cheaper.. so we're not going to let you have a ton.

Nobody has seen the codex yet. It's possible there is a Lord who allows Destroyers as troops etc... why who knows. Surely since every other codex has at least 1 character who makes X and Y troops; I bet Necrons will have it as well.

Most recent Codex had not 1 but 2 different elites that could be made troops.

IdentifyZero wrote:

Nobody has seen the codex yet. It's possible there is a Lord who allows Destroyers as troops etc... why who knows. Surely since every other codex has at least 1 character who makes X and Y troops; I bet Necrons will have it as well.

Most recent Codex had not 1 but 2 different elites that could be made troops.

Yakface was pretty clear, in saying that none of the characters alter the Force Organisation.

alphaomega wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:

Nobody has seen the codex yet. It's possible there is a Lord who allows Destroyers as troops etc... why who knows. Surely since every other codex has at least 1 character who makes X and Y troops; I bet Necrons will have it as well.

Most recent Codex had not 1 but 2 different elites that could be made troops.

Yakface was pretty clear, in saying that none of the characters alter the Force Organisation.

From what he saw. I'm fairly clear he only has a playtest codex, and from the GK playtest leak, we know things change.

I did notice the whole randomize a model in the unit phenomenon. As has been pointed out, most of these are only dealing with a model in base contact with a certain Necron model and those can be easily resolved with a single die (since you never have more than 6 enemy models in base contact).

However, the Exile beamer that can be carried by Wraiths does affect the entire unit and needs a random model to be picked and that would be tricky.

Luckily, I don't see anyone ever using that upgrade because of how it works (being a Heavy Weapon on a unit that wants to assault), but if it was used against a big squad, the proper way would be to split all the models in the unit into groups so the whole thing was divisible by 6 and then randomly roll off to see what group was affected, then further rolling to see what model within the group was affected.

So for example, if you have 30 Ork Boyz, which includes a Nob and 3 Big Shootas and you needed to randomize this, you'd split the mob into 6 groups of 5 models. For ease, you'd probably be best off putting the Nob and all 3 Big Shoota models into a single group (along with one regular Boy), so let's say you put all these special models into group #6.

Now you roll a D6. A roll of 1-5 means you've selected a group 1 through 5, all of which are regular boyz, so you'd just resolve the attack against a regular boy. Howver, if you rolled a '6' that means you've selected the group with all the specialty models in it, and you need to roll again to see what actual model within the group is selected.

So perhpas you'd say that the Nob was then #1, the Big Shoota Boyz were #2-4, the regular Shoota boy in the group was #5, and since there is no sixth model in the group, a result of '6' would be re-rolled.

Now you roll a D6 again and a #3 comes up, meaning the attack is resolved against a Big Shoota Boy.


Not quite a simple method by any means, but certainly doable with a D6 and a bit of ingenuity.

Hox wrote:

Chrysis wrote:

Hox wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:One thing I notice is that some weapons are described as selecting a 'random' model from the unit.

Now in a squad of 20 (or 30 in the case of Orks) how do you determine which 'random' model is removed? The amount of rolls to determine a single lost model become ridiculous and if it is instead 'target a model within a randomly determined group of similarly equipped models' suddenly I see a lot of sergeants being plucked out of units by strength tests (though only a chance, I think ICs are damned if they do/dont' join a squad).

I would think in that case you would find something reasonable to do with an opponent. Maybe roll 2D6 and on like a 2 your IC is killed otherwise its a regular troop or in the case of different loadouts of guys in the squad (say 2/3 normal and 1/3 special weapons) then you would roll and on 1-4 a regular guy goes and on a 5/6 a special weapon drops. I'm sure there will be a proper and obscenely difficult way to do this with larger squads but if its casual I think simplicity will win out.

And if simplicity wins out, then the weapon gets a huge boost because it will disproportionately hit special members of the squad. Picture a squad of 30 Slugga Boyz. One of these is a Nob, and 3 have Big Shootas. How are you going to randomly allocate the hit such that the Nob has a 1/30 probability of being hit and a Big Shoota has a 1/10?

I foresee a lot of people just half-assing it and suggesting something like 1 hits the Nob, 2 or 3 a Big Shoota, the rest a Slugga Boy. That would make the Nob 5 times more likely to take the hit than he should. Unless you've got at least a d10 available I'm struggling to think of quick ways to map the squad such that the appropriate probabilities of being hit are maintained.

With a d10, and the above example squad, I'd recommend first splitting it into 3 groups of 10 each with a Big Shoota and the first also containing the Nob. Roll a d6, with 1 or 2 indicating the Nob's group was hit and 3+ one of the other two groups. Then roll a d10 with a 10 indicating the Big Shoota from the appropriate group and a 1 indicating the Nob if he's present. Of course, as soon as the unit takes a single casualty this no longer works, and in fact gets even harder to do. You'd have to essentially number every member and then roll a percentile (rerolling if it's a number that isn't present) to figure out who was hit.

Yes, the first line of my post was "find something reasonable to do with the opponent" but of course I want to skew the rules and win. My opponent is usually the same person who provides other things (my girlfriend) so I strive to keep things fair. You are discussing squads of 30 which are NOT the normal other than orks and nids. Almost any other squad can be effectively done on 2-4 dice (or 2 -3 10 sided dice). Im sure if you want to go crazy you can buy a die with an obscenely large number of sides if you want but I think most people will agree upon something with their opponent.

Edit: 3 seconds on google let me find 30 sided dice for $2.50. I dont think this is an issue.

There is always "On an even roll, i choose, and on an odd roll, you choose. Oh, a 6. Get rid of that Nob/Squad Leader/heavy weapon/power weapon guy/girl/it."

Guarantee my lucky necron dice won't let me down. (they're called that because they are rigged to roll high when used for necrons, but refuce to get above a 3 for any other reason.)

*edit* just saw yakface's post, alot better idea in terms of not being as rigged.

Hey Yakface, does the DOOMscythe have any artwork in the codex? i kinda want to know what it will look like.

I'm telling you guys just go online and find a RNG. If you're playing at someone's home I'm sure they have a computer, and in other locations you crazy young people with your smart pads and iphones must have some sort of internet capable device. I bet there's a RNG app out there too.

Lotta big broad brush strokes being painted over people in this thread now. Straw brushes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IdentifyZero wrote:The message is, hey guys, these new destroyers are better and cheaper.. so we're not going to let you have a ton.

More likely the message is "Hey guys, Destroyers have been out for 7 years. Look at this new shiny instead!"

asimo77 wrote:I'm telling you guys just go online and find an RNG. If you're playing at someone's home I'm sure they have a computer, and in other locations you crazy young people with your smart pads and iphones must have some sort of internet capable device. I bet there's a RNG app out there too.

Hey great point. I just realized I had no such thing on my iphone/pad and just downloaded a free one just in case I ever need it!

Yakface, I just want to thank you for bringing information.

If you do not mind, any word on the other weapons that Triarch Stalker can take?

So no Artwork for doomscythe?

alphaomega wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:

Nobody has seen the codex yet. It's possible there is a Lord who allows Destroyers as troops etc... why who knows. Surely since every other codex has at least 1 character who makes X and Y troops; I bet Necrons will have it as well.

Most recent Codex had not 1 but 2 different elites that could be made troops.

Yakface was pretty clear, in saying that none of the characters alter the Force Organisation.

Yeah. If only he had the FINAL codex that will hit store shelves.

Would be funny if it is all lies, but again thank you yakface for the info.

The modles rock, except for the flayed ones they look not so scary without as much skin and smaller claws...

I liked the Edward Scissor-hand Ones they were pretty cool

At this rate the damn eldar better be fething AWSOME or I QUIT

TheWildHost wrote:At this rate the damn eldar better be fething AWSOME or I QUIT

They already are. Try Linking some Prism cannons and parking Wraithguard as a Troops choice on an objective.

NecronLord3 wrote:

TheWildHost wrote:At this rate the damn eldar better be fething AWSOME or I QUIT

They already are. Try Linking some Prism cannons and parking Wraithguard as a Troops choice on an objective.

Wraithguard killed my C'tan one time, not sure if i am over it yet.

Model Limitations and tactics
<------------ Immature 13 Yr. old
I demand Chedder

No you're stuck with Provolone!

masterofstuff1 wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:

TheWildHost wrote:At this rate the damn eldar better be fething AWSOME or I QUIT

They already are. Try Linking some Prism cannons and parking Wraithguard as a Troops choice on an objective.

Wraithguard killed my C'tan one time, not sure if i am over it yet.

Yeah, my Deceiver walks away from that combat every time.

Hey Yak, can you let us in on what thee Character with the Body guard does?

How is his preference for honor represented in his rules?