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Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






 Accolade wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
There is nothing "realistic" to worry about until we actually know what 9E looks like. There is a lot of projecting going on here, and a lot of pessimist assumption that it will be "bad" without any real-world proof behind it.


Other than rumours of what it will be like from solid sources dovetailing very neatly with actual photographs of the content of the next End ?Times book?

It seems perfectly realistic to me to be harbouring serious concerns, not proclaiming "everything might be ok, we just don't know!"


After all, it's not every day an entire game universe gets wiped out and completely re-built!


That depends on how you view reality.

   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 Azreal13 wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
There is nothing "realistic" to worry about until we actually know what 9E looks like. There is a lot of projecting going on here, and a lot of pessimist assumption that it will be "bad" without any real-world proof behind it.


Other than rumours of what it will be like from solid sources dovetailing very neatly with actual photographs of the content of the next End ?Times book?

It seems perfectly realistic to me to be harbouring serious concerns, not proclaiming "everything might be ok, we just don't know!"

The only solid rumors we have about 9th is from Harry and he's only said that the starter is Chaos vs Humans. We don't even have a solid release date yet.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 21:41:09


 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Well, I guess one's definition of "solid" can vary, but I'd call Darnok and Harry both endorsing the idea of the Bubbleverse and the End Times Archaon leak pretty damn solid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not changing my post, but for any third parties reading, CwZ edited his original.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 21:46:32


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 Azreal13 wrote:
Well, I guess one's definition of "solid" can vary, but I'd call Darnok and Harry both endorsing the idea of the Bubbleverse and the End Times Archaon leak pretty damn solid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not changing my post, but for any third parties reading, CwZ edited his original.

I don't recall seeing Harry endorsing Bubblehammer.

And my edit was for clarity of my point. There isn't a lot out there and Bubblehammer fell apart with what we've seem so far anyways.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

No, your edit was to drop Harry's name into your post, which then made me name checking him somewhat redundant.

Anyway, it seems that you've cast yourself in your own head as some sort of voice of reason, but just so you know, reason generally occupies some sort of middle ground, and all you appear to do is disagree with anyone expressing misgivings.

Whether you intend to or not, you're coming across less as reasonable and more as white knighting.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 Azreal13 wrote:
No, your edit was to drop Harry's name into your post, which then made me name checking him somewhat redundant.

Anyway, it seems that you've cast yourself in your own head as some sort of voice of reason, but just so you know, reason generally occupies some sort of middle ground, and all you appear to do is disagree with anyone expressing misgivings.

Whether you intend to or not, you're coming across less as reasonable and more as white knighting.

I named Harry because I was pointing to him as the only source I knew of who was a solid source who had something to say about 9th.

And I haven't seen anyone who was bouncing off the walls getting overexcited for 9th to dissgree with so forgive me for taking the middle ground and only seeing one extreme to disagree with. I've named my misgivings with WFB, and have said I do have concerns that this whole thing will turn out poorly and just finish strangling WFB, but until I know where 9th is actually going I'm not assuming that it to actually be the case.

So yeah, I'm being rational and taking the middle ground instead of letting myself get caught up in my own emotions on this right now. Just because you don't agree with my stance doesn't make me irrational, or a white knight or any other claim you want to throw. Until the book is in my hands all that exist are rumors and as far as I'm concerned all rumots have enough chance of being wrong that we should hold none of it as gospel just yet.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 23:22:50


 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

I simply explained how your posts were coming across to me, in my perception.

Unsurprisingly, you disagree.


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!



Maybe we can all slow down until there is some real news?

   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 Azreal13 wrote:
I simply explained how your posts were coming across to me, in my perception.

Unsurprisingly, you disagree.

You made claims about me that I don't find to be based in fact. Of course I disagreed with you. That doesn't validate your earlier claims, nor does it prove anything

As far as I know we have one rumor for 9th with any possible weight behind it: the starter. If anyone has some morebI'm interested to hear them.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Spoiler:


Maybe we can all slow down until there is some real news?


Yeah, cause people who really care about diffusing a situation write posts like that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
I simply explained how your posts were coming across to me, in my perception.

Unsurprisingly, you disagree.

You made claims about me that I don't find to be based in fact. Of course I disagreed with you. That doesn't validate your earlier claims, nor does it prove anything

As far as I know we have one rumor for 9th with any possible weight behind it: the starter. If anyone has some morebI'm interested to hear them.


I was stating my perception, I'm not the only one who has stated similar, I don't need facts to back up an opinion on the reaction what you're writing illicits in me.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/03/12 23:43:55


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

When you ignore my statements of apprehension on what could be done poorly about the new edition to focus only the statements you don't agree with it shows that you don't care about facts just fine. You didn't have to point it out to me.

You can have any opinion you like, but neither I, nor anyone else, is obligated to agree with an opinion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 23:47:39


 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

No, but you're not obligated to state your disagreement all the flaming time either, learn to walk away.

Like this..,

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
40kenthus






Yoor Speeshawl too Gawd!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
There is nothing "realistic" to worry about until we actually know what 9E looks like. There is a lot of projecting going on here, and a lot of pessimist assumption that it will be "bad" without any real-world proof behind it.



I have Lizardmen and Brettonian armies please advise me on why I should be Polly Annaish?

Only now do I realize how much I prefer Pete Haines' "misprints" to Gav Thorpe's "brainfarts." :Abadabadoobaddon 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 Dice Monkey wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
There is nothing "realistic" to worry about until we actually know what 9E looks like. There is a lot of projecting going on here, and a lot of pessimist assumption that it will be "bad" without any real-world proof behind it.


I have Lizardmen and Brettonian armies please advise me on why I should be Polly Annaish?


Good for you. You should wait and see like a rational person.

I have (had) Dogs of War. There is nowhere to go but up.

   
Made in gb
Soul Token




West Yorkshire, England

 ClockworkZion wrote:
When you ignore my statements of apprehension on what could be done poorly about the new edition to focus only the statements you don't agree with it shows that you don't care about facts just fine. You didn't have to point it out to me.

You can have any opinion you like, but neither I, nor anyone else, is obligated to agree with an opinion.


 Azreal13 wrote:
No, but you're not obligated to state your disagreement all the flaming time either, learn to walk away.

Like this..,


Will you two just kiss already?

"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich." 
   
Made in fi
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine






Finland

 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
No, your edit was to drop Harry's name into your post, which then made me name checking him somewhat redundant.

Anyway, it seems that you've cast yourself in your own head as some sort of voice of reason, but just so you know, reason generally occupies some sort of middle ground, and all you appear to do is disagree with anyone expressing misgivings.

Whether you intend to or not, you're coming across less as reasonable and more as white knighting.

I named Harry because I was pointing to him as the only source I knew of who was a solid source who had something to say about 9th.

And I haven't seen anyone who was bouncing off the walls getting overexcited for 9th to dissgree with so forgive me for taking the middle ground and only seeing one extreme to disagree with. I've named my misgivings with WFB, and have said I do have concerns that this whole thing will turn out poorly and just finish strangling WFB, but until I know where 9th is actually going I'm not assuming that it to actually be the case.

So yeah, I'm being rational and taking the middle ground instead of letting myself get caught up in my own emotions on this right now. Just because you don't agree with my stance doesn't make me irrational, or a white knight or any other claim you want to throw. Until the book is in my hands all that exist are rumors and as far as I'm concerned all rumots have enough chance of being wrong that we should hold none of it as gospel just yet.


Don't waste your time argumenting with Azreal, he can't help himself. Best we let him be certain about the things he is certain about, and preserve the image of everyone else being wrong and their logic faulty, now that we're talking about bubbles.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And I haven't seen anyone who was bouncing off the walls getting overexcited for 9th to dissgree with so forgive me for taking the middle ground and only seeing one extreme to disagree with. I've named my misgivings with WFB, and have said I do have concerns that this whole thing will turn out poorly and just finish strangling WFB, but until I know where 9th is actually going I'm not assuming that it to actually be the case.

So yeah, I'm being rational and taking the middle ground instead of letting myself get caught up in my own emotions on this right now. Just because you don't agree with my stance doesn't make me irrational, or a white knight or any other claim you want to throw. Until the book is in my hands all that exist are rumors and as far as I'm concerned all rumots have enough chance of being wrong that we should hold none of it as gospel just yet.


Well put. I'd say everyone should do the same. Some choose ( and I do mean choose ) not to, but anyway.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2015/03/13 09:30:20


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 ClockworkZion wrote:

The only solid rumors we have about 9th is from Harry and he's only said that the starter is Chaos vs Humans. We don't even have a solid release date yet.


Note that he said Chaos vs. "Humans".

Presumably he meant Bubble-/Fantasy-/Dimensional/Sig-Marines?
   
Made in us
RogueSangre





The Canadian Gate

Sigmarines! I love it. But can we make the starter be Sigmarines vs Chaos Sigmarines? Kthxbye.

- Kirby

Jessica Alba is to hot like Fzorgle is to GW failing at life.
- Phryxis on Slaaneshi psychic powers

Lets forge a narrative! Your aspiring champion makes a wet farting sound, much like when you let go of a filled balloon, as he/she is sent to eternal damnation in the warp for defeating Calgar.
- Forcemajeure 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

Wonderwolf wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:

The only solid rumors we have about 9th is from Harry and he's only said that the starter is Chaos vs Humans. We don't even have a solid release date yet.


Note that he said Chaos vs. "Humans".

Presumably he meant Bubble-/Fantasy-/Dimensional/Sig-Marines?

No real evidence what he meant. The info he has may have been complete too.

I do know he was making some comments last night about imagining said models in "mark 0 armor with power swords" but me that just sounds like a knight.
   
Made in us
Sslimey Sslyth




"Humans" could also refer to Bretonia and Empire being rolled into a single army, which is something I believe has been rumored.
   
Made in ca
Lit By the Flames of Prospero





Edmonton, Alberta

I feel conflicted. The idea of a more skirmish war hammer fantasy with smaller games my attention span can better handle. But... I really liked the back story to fantasy. =/
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







Its amusing to see how most of us here are passionate enough to express concerns about a game that hypothetically is dying or dead and the company that is economically invested in it keeps perpetuating the total silence. Guess the ET and the destruction of WFB fluff is yet another blind measure from an unchangeable dinosaur. Missed chance from GW to actually reinvent themselves. To think that in the EU in many places WFB was not long ago a lot more popular than 40k and now is a only a smelly annoying fart. Incredible how such a popular game from a multimillion company can reach such critical state and the company that let it happen is... unchanged.

Bizarre is also the fact that some here seem to be more prone to criticize peoples concerns and opinions rather than the topic itself.

I have a open mind regarding the new edition as much as I am open minded into playing other games, if GW wants to see my investment into the new edition they better get their Shat together and come up with something better than Bubbleverse... you can only reboot fluff one to many times before people do not care for it anymore. Same for your armies... add more ranks, take ranks off, more magic, more heroes, change bases etc. Armies take years to built and paint, some respect to who does it is due, even if you claim GW does not owe us anything ( which is partially true ) no sustainable relationship can be maintained if one of the parts shows no respect for the other.
Also the specificity of what GW sells you makes ALL the difference... I mean GW wants to sell itself as THE hobby experience... and then at the same time it moves away from any relevant interaction with their clients.

Someone talked about being realistic about the new edition... maybe if you add GW tracking record as part of that equation you would not be inclined to be so optimistic

I love and buy some GW minis but I can keep a distance and actually realize that GW in the present day needs to change... WFB is in a poor position and I can see 40k following it. Then what? Theres no more games to keep them alive.

Someone hinted wargaming was getting smaller... Been at Salute and year by year you see it bigger and better, its only the biggest in the UK. Also if you do a little search online you will find out that the offers and options today available for wargaming grown to an incredible number. The only thing shrinking is the convergence into only one system or company... that is changing.


   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

If GW was playing the part of the unchanging dinosaur, we wouldn't have gotten the End Times.

And considering the End Times is very much not fitting with their old track record I'd say that when it comes to 9th it's possible that won't either.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Las Vegas

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
There is nothing "realistic" to worry about until we actually know what 9E looks like. There is a lot of projecting going on here, and a lot of pessimist assumption that it will be "bad" without any real-world proof behind it.


I don't really care if 9th is the greatest rules system ever known, the world and background have been destroyed. Fundamentally, the game world is either gone, or they're doing a Dallas-dream-esque retcon of End Times. Maybe something in between where the world is recreated to their one shining being's idea of what the world was, and we have a small number of armies, built from the cuisinarted remains of the older armies that had long standing flavor and history, all jumbled up. All of which, quite frankly, stink.

And WFB will still suffer from high cost of entry and, in the case of some kits, ridiculously inflated prices. And I expect GW to fix the hugely inconsistent cost of kits (for example, Witch Elves at $60 for 10, Executioners at $50 for 10, etc, while the likes of dreadspears are $35 for 10, Chaos Warriors are $35 for 12, and Tomb Kings skeletons are $35 for 16) by raising the cost of the "cheaper" kits to parity with the kits priced at the new normal. It wouldn't even be the first time they did a price hike that drastic, look at the Dire Avengers, who went to a box with half as many for nearly the same cost.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






I'd expect the bubble marines to look like warrior priest, not space marines. which is not a bad thing imo
[Thumb - Warrior_Priest_by_madhymn.jpg]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/14 16:52:54


lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039 
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







 ClockworkZion wrote:
If GW was playing the part of the unchanging dinosaur, we wouldn't have gotten the End Times.

And considering the End Times is very much not fitting with their old track record I'd say that when it comes to 9th it's possible that won't either.



Did you actually read my post? Or actually just eager to defend something and mixmatch some words to prove something?

Do you see GW interacting with the community and clarifying the deal with the nuke in WFB? The way GW moves is exactly the same... No interaction, just changing the products to milk them and relying that people will buy things just because GW is the hobby ( in the meanwhile increasing prices each month). They are releasing things faster and faster to try to catch up. What you call ET to be the big change I say its a logical consequence of increased rate of recycling. Recycling and spamming same things will eventually only lead you to a dead end and then - only a nuke will "solve" it. Believe me it will not because if your incapable of turning things around in a optimal way for all parts involved and your only creative thinking relies on "destroy all" then I fear for any kind of long therm continuity in WFB.
What changed? They killed everything because they are not capable of changing and they think that this magically will revive WFB just cause they are the best thing after sliced bread. This is not a fundamental core change of behavior but rather the sacrifice of once a pretty strong reliable game fluff.

I'm bold enough to say that the peoples concerns over the years have proven to be spot on. You simply DO NOT nuke 30 years of fluff and armies building! If you have to do it its because you have been outoftouch with reality and let your game die... Guess what GW has unfortunately not changed a bit in fact thinking about it WFB is as in poor shape as many of the " doomsayers" predicted. Just mind blowing ridiculous incompetence can explain this.

How many ET books again? In what time gap between eachother? Prices of all them? Just another formula spammed to death I'm afraid. Oh well they released the Glotkin so its a good result for me I guess.

Mate in the future can we please just try to understand and respect the other side before jabbing some words? I would thank you for that because your relentless posting of the same thing in this thread is a bit too incisive.

   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM





I love the name sigmarines haha

Gonna start calling them that!

Bye bye Dakkadakka, happy hobbying! I really enjoyed my time on here. Opinions were always my own :-) 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 NAVARRO wrote:
you can only reboot fluff one to many times before people do not care for it anymore.


DC Comics proves you wrong.

Or do they?

   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 NAVARRO wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
If GW was playing the part of the unchanging dinosaur, we wouldn't have gotten the End Times.

And considering the End Times is very much not fitting with their old track record I'd say that when it comes to 9th it's possible that won't either.



Did you actually read my post? Or actually just eager to defend something and mixmatch some words to prove something?

Do you see GW interacting with the community and clarifying the deal with the nuke in WFB? The way GW moves is exactly the same... No interaction, just changing the products to milk them and relying that people will buy things just because GW is the hobby ( in the meanwhile increasing prices each month). They are releasing things faster and faster to try to catch up. What you call ET to be the big change I say its a logical consequence of increased rate of recycling. Recycling and spamming same things will eventually only lead you to a dead end and then - only a nuke will "solve" it. Believe me it will not because if your incapable of turning things around in a optimal way for all parts involved and your only creative thinking relies on "destroy all" then I fear for any kind of long therm continuity in WFB.
What changed? They killed everything because they are not capable of changing and they think that this magically will revive WFB just cause they are the best thing after sliced bread. This is not a fundamental core change of behavior but rather the sacrifice of once a pretty strong reliable game fluff.

I'm bold enough to say that the peoples concerns over the years have proven to be spot on. You simply DO NOT nuke 30 years of fluff and armies building! If you have to do it its because you have been outoftouch with reality and let your game die... Guess what GW has unfortunately not changed a bit in fact thinking about it WFB is as in poor shape as many of the " doomsayers" predicted. Just mind blowing ridiculous incompetence can explain this.

How many ET books again? In what time gap between eachother? Prices of all them? Just another formula spammed to death I'm afraid. Oh well they released the Glotkin so its a good result for me I guess.

Mate in the future can we please just try to understand and respect the other side before jabbing some words? I would thank you for that because your relentless posting of the same thing in this thread is a bit too incisive.

I read but didn't agree with everything you said. Yes, the communication aspect hasn't gotten better, but I'd say the fact that they're trying something moves them out of pondering along like a clueless dinosaur walking deeper into a tar pit to just being deaf to the consumer base.

They are trying to change course, and even if they are aware of what we want right now there isn't much they can turn around if this proves to be ultimately bad.

But I've said it before and I'll say it again, the company needs more than veterans to keep the game afloat and if it proves to bring more people in the long run then losing a few vets who don't like the changes is fine.

We'll have to wait and see if the gambit pays off for them of course, but just because you don't agree with it doesn't automatically make it bad for the company (and vice versa). Time will tell if it pays off or not, but writing it off as a possible solution to the failing WHFB system pre-maturely strikes me as getting caught up in your emotional ties to the game.
   
Made in us
Sharp-shooting Foundation Sheriff





Indianapolis, IN

 NAVARRO wrote:
Do you see GW interacting with the community and clarifying the deal with the nuke in WFB? The way GW moves is exactly the same... No interaction, just changing the products to milk them and relying that people will buy things just because GW is the hobby ( in the meanwhile increasing prices each month). They are releasing things faster and faster to try to catch up. What you call ET to be the big change I say its a logical consequence of increased rate of recycling. Recycling and spamming same things will eventually only lead you to a dead end and then - only a nuke will "solve" it. Believe me it will not because if your incapable of turning things around in a optimal way for all parts involved and your only creative thinking relies on "destroy all" then I fear for any kind of long therm continuity in WFB.
What changed? They killed everything because they are not capable of changing and they think that this magically will revive WFB just cause they are the best thing after sliced bread. This is not a fundamental core change of behavior but rather the sacrifice of once a pretty strong reliable game fluff.

I'm bold enough to say that the peoples concerns over the years have proven to be spot on. You simply DO NOT nuke 30 years of fluff and armies building! If you have to do it its because you have been outoftouch with reality and let your game die... Guess what GW has unfortunately not changed a bit in fact thinking about it WFB is as in poor shape as many of the " doomsayers" predicted. Just mind blowing ridiculous incompetence can explain this.

How many ET books again? In what time gap between eachother? Prices of all them? Just another formula spammed to death I'm afraid. Oh well they released the Glotkin so its a good result for me I guess.


Judging by the horrendous "team player" lawyer ad over in Discussions, GW haven't learned gak.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/14 18:36:05


 
   
 
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