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2020/02/25 09:49:18
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I would pick hoplites over fulgurites. Fulgurites are better once they soup up but they have to soup up first and with no range and no rerollable charge a skilled opponent will stop them before they get there.
2020/02/25 13:19:52
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Suzuteo wrote: Dunno. Fulgurites are a really weird unit in the AdMech lineup to begin with, being a dedicated melee unit. Without a transport, they actually can be quite bad; if they can't get close enough to fight and have to stand out in the open, they are pretty much extremely overpriced Guardsmen.
That being said, OP or UP is relative. We are in a Space Marine meta where T4 3++ is extremely common, and these guys counter that.
But that depends on if they point them in a vacuum, which judging by the points REDUCTION on fulgurites AFTER we got a cheap transport suggests they absolutely do.
Regardless of the meta, or scenario, 14pts for a fulgurite is insanely cheap for what they do. Literally every other melee only unit I can think of does less damage and is less survivable for many many more points per model. Just because at the moment a lot of space marine armies have overpowered shooting phases doesn't reduce the written value of a model. The subjective value of a unit yes, because there are many factors that go into it, but if you put a single fulgurite against a single other melee-only elites choice without support there's a good chance it'll come out on top.
U02dah4 wrote: I would pick hoplites over fulgurites. Fulgurites are better once they soup up but they have to soup up first and with no range and no re-rollable charge a skilled opponent will stop them before they get there.
I don't rate that 3++ unless you're sitting them on an objective and can acquisition them. Against weight of numbers with anything str 5+, most infantry handling guns, a 3+ save on them is no better than the 3+ save on a marine as you wouldn't be shooting at them with stuff that has better ap than -2. The 5+++ is nice but fundamentally if you haven't got them on that 2++ they go down as easily as a marine, which coincidentally they're about the same cost as now.
Hoplites over fulgurites? depends what you want them for. Hoplites dont put out the same damage as fulgurites, there's no contest and they only have a +1 better invuln saver, but only in combat. They dont even really wound all that easier. Sure they're cheaper but if what you want is a squad to pile out of a transport and wreck something, hoplites arent gonna do that. If you want something to sit back and protect shooting units, hoplites are more efficient at that. But you want something dead that shoots it doesn't even really matter what toughness it is a squad of fulgurites will wreck it.
2020/02/25 19:42:44
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
U02dah4 wrote: I would pick hoplites over fulgurites. Fulgurites are better once they soup up but they have to soup up first and with no range and no rerollable charge a skilled opponent will stop them before they get there.
Going 12.5% cheaper pretty much obliterated the cost advantage that Hoplites had.
Octovol wrote: But that depends on if they point them in a vacuum, which judging by the points REDUCTION on fulgurites AFTER we got a cheap transport suggests they absolutely do.
Regardless of the meta, or scenario, 14pts for a fulgurite is insanely cheap for what they do. Literally every other melee only unit I can think of does less damage and is less survivable for many many more points per model. Just because at the moment a lot of space marine armies have overpowered shooting phases doesn't reduce the written value of a model. The subjective value of a unit yes, because there are many factors that go into it, but if you put a single fulgurite against a single other melee-only elites choice without support there's a good chance it'll come out on top.
I agree that they are undercosted in a straight comparison, mostly because of mortal wounds and the ability to fight twice. But merely stacking the most point efficient units does not win you games. There's a lot of meta considerations. It's only when you put Fulgurites into Boats that their strengths become clear. The Boat protects them from volume fire, moves them into position, and also helps soak up Overwatch and tie down anti-infantry threats
That being said, at the risk of coming off as a hypocrite, my current list is pretty much just stacking point efficient units:
Heavy Support - 333 1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
Basically, I dropped an Inquisitor and a Drill then rammed 2x4 Breacher units in. Going to IGOUGO deployment makes two Drills less appealing because I don't need to further reduce deployments anymore. Breachers also no longer count for Gang Busters, which pretty much was the only thing keeping me back; they are not nearly as invincible as they used to be, but their guns are pretty much the ideal profile to kill Space Marine light vehicles and pick off Centurions.
I also increased the diversity of my tool box. 2x10 Fulgurites always go into the Boats. The spare Boat and Drill take in a unit of 2x5 Rangers for Maneuvers or 2x5 Plasma Vanguard to help to kill stuff. I generally favor putting the Plasma Vanguard into the Drill for a ton of S8 shooting coming down on top of someone.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/25 19:51:44
2020/02/26 05:56:14
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Hello everyone. So, I'm pretty close to starting an admech army (either that or a necron army but I'm leaning towards admech more), but going through the forum, I'm having trouble deciding on where to start. A lot of the discussion appears to be about more competitive games and around 2k points, which is all way over my head and a bit of an information overload.
My meta usually runs 1000-1500pt games and that's about the point level I'm looking to build. I have Cawl and plenty of the HQ's (I love the look of those models), but nothing else. My tentative 1,000 list is as follows:
My thought is that Cawl walks around with the Dunecrawlers for the rerolls and repairs. Rangers hold the backline. The Vanguard and Fulgulites are in the Duneriders going for mid-field objectives. Alternatively I was thinking of dropping the Fulgurite and a Dunerider for more Rangers and a Disintegrator.
Would a list like this be a good start or am I missing something? Is Cawl a trap at low points? What else would be good to have when i go to 1500?
Canifex Quote: I love Rhinos. They are crunchy on the outside, and soft and chewy on the inside.
- 3300 painted
2020/02/26 09:07:49
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Suzuteo wrote: Dunno. Fulgurites are a really weird unit in the AdMech lineup to begin with, being a dedicated melee unit. Without a transport, they actually can be quite bad; if they can't get close enough to fight and have to stand out in the open, they are pretty much extremely overpriced Guardsmen.
That being said, OP or UP is relative. We are in a Space Marine meta where T4 3++ is extremely common, and these guys counter that.
But that depends on if they point them in a vacuum, which judging by the points REDUCTION on fulgurites AFTER we got a cheap transport suggests they absolutely do.
Regardless of the meta, or scenario, 14pts for a fulgurite is insanely cheap for what they do. Literally every other melee only unit I can think of does less damage and is less survivable for many many more points per model. Just because at the moment a lot of space marine armies have overpowered shooting phases doesn't reduce the written value of a model. The subjective value of a unit yes, because there are many factors that go into it, but if you put a single fulgurite against a single other melee-only elites choice without support there's a good chance it'll come out on top.
U02dah4 wrote: I would pick hoplites over fulgurites. Fulgurites are better once they soup up but they have to soup up first and with no range and no re-rollable charge a skilled opponent will stop them before they get there.
I don't rate that 3++ unless you're sitting them on an objective and can acquisition them. Against weight of numbers with anything str 5+, most infantry handling guns, a 3+ save on them is no better than the 3+ save on a marine as you wouldn't be shooting at them with stuff that has better ap than -2. The 5+++ is nice but fundamentally if you haven't got them on that 2++ they go down as easily as a marine, which coincidentally they're about the same cost as now.
Hoplites over fulgurites? depends what you want them for. Hoplites dont put out the same damage as fulgurites, there's no contest and they only have a +1 better invuln saver, but only in combat. They dont even really wound all that easier. Sure they're cheaper but if what you want is a squad to pile out of a transport and wreck something, hoplites arent gonna do that. If you want something to sit back and protect shooting units, hoplites are more efficient at that. But you want something dead that shoots it doesn't even really matter what toughness it is a squad of fulgurites will wreck it.
Whats missing from your analysis is
7 fulgurites = 11 hoplites thats 4 extra wounds in hoplites favour
Sure the melee invul is +1 (with a 1/6 MW) but what your missing is the 4+ Armour save. With canticles thats a 3+ vs 0AP 66% vs 55% 5++/5+++ single wound.In hoplites favour till you soup up.
As to dmnage 11 12" 3+ S6 hits doing 1 dam/d3 to vehicles vs 0 shots in hoplites favours
Melee 23 3+ s6 Ap1 1 dam d3 vs vehicles + benefits from omiscient mask
Vs
14 3+ s5 Ap2 D3 dam with 11% of attacks triggering mortals
Sure you can fight twice for 3 cp
So factor mask and strat 18.6 hits fulgurite vs 21.3 hits hoplites. the mw of both in melee is similar 16% defencively or 11% offensively. This gives the hoplites the slight edge vs single wounds infantry similar performance vs vehicles while fulgurites are stronger vs multiwound non vehicles. however the strat only works on one unit and so the second hoplite unit outperforms the second fulgurite unit.
So hoplite +defence
+range
While in melee fulgurites only compete with the strat and that comes with a big CP cost and even then only boosts 1 unit
Sure fulgurites become defencively stronger once they kill something but thats not a guarentee
2020/02/26 09:20:57
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
shamroll wrote: Hello everyone. So, I'm pretty close to starting an admech army (either that or a necron army but I'm leaning towards admech more), but going through the forum, I'm having trouble deciding on where to start. A lot of the discussion appears to be about more competitive games and around 2k points, which is all way over my head and a bit of an information overload.
My meta usually runs 1000-1500pt games and that's about the point level I'm looking to build. I have Cawl and plenty of the HQ's (I love the look of those models), but nothing else. My tentative 1,000 list is as follows:
My thought is that Cawl walks around with the Dunecrawlers for the rerolls and repairs. Rangers hold the backline. The Vanguard and Fulgulites are in the Duneriders going for mid-field objectives. Alternatively I was thinking of dropping the Fulgurite and a Dunerider for more Rangers and a Disintegrator.
Would a list like this be a good start or am I missing something? Is Cawl a trap at low points? What else would be good to have when i go to 1500?
Looks like a good start. Cawl is not really necessary at 1000 points but if you’re going Mars you’ll probably want the model to include as you go to higher points values and besides, the model is great. Having both a Dominus and Cawl is probably a waste of points as Cawl let’s you +1/-1 to both Canticles (if you randomly determine them) so it’s quite likely you can get the re-roll 1s to-hit for your units not inside his bubble of you need it. If you’re building optimally Cawl is really only mathematically worth it over a Dominus when he’s buffing something like 700/800+ points of gun line. He is however much more durable than a Dominus and better in melee, so he’s a better problem solver in that regard.
Removing the Fulgerites and a boat completely changes how you can play your list and I would argue that if you’re playing Maelstrom games it would probably be detrimental to your list. For games like that you really need some ability to take and control parts of the mid-board or you’ll be bullied into only holding your deployment zone and won’t have the units to shoot and fight your way out of it.
Basically I think your list is perfectly adequate to start with, will be fun to play and is a good collection to start expanding from but if all you want is a solid 1000 points list to keep unchanged and not add to you might want to make some tweaks to lean towards greater efficiency. Mars isn’t greatly suited to small games - Stygies VIII is better for that (but there’s no reason that will stay the same in the future). What I do, because my opponents are happy about it and do the same, is just change my Forgeworld depending on my list even though my models are painted up as Mars.
2020/02/26 17:17:06
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
@U02dah4
It doesn't matter. Because you can only fit 10 Hoplites in a Boat. Without the Boat, both of these units are not viable. You will find yourself in a race to the bottom for point efficiency and end up running naked Rangers or Breachers. (Which is actually not bad.)
In any case, paying 50 points to upgrade 10 Hoplites into 10 Fulgurites is super worth it. I would pay up to 100 points actually. Indeed, considering we used to have to pay 70 points, with the cost savings, running 2x10 Fulgurites makes more sense than running 10/10 Fulgurites and Hoplites or just 2x10 Hoplites like we used to.
As for the CP cost, you should look at my list. It is built around the Fulgurites. I spend the majority of my CP giving them Shroudpsalm or +1S multiple times, making them fight twice, giving them Acquisition. They can single-handedly win games.
And keep in mind that my point is not to say that Hoplites are bad. It's to point out that Fulgurites are just ridiculously good. They can fight twice with a profile that absolutely murders Space Marines, then power up to become virtually unkillable. They are a massively disruptive melee threat that are very difficult to play around due to the mobility conferred by the Boat. Primaris Marines, Assault Centurions, Smash Captains. You name it, they don't want to be in the same table quadrant as a Boat packed full of Fulgurites; they don't want to charge into any such unit either.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/26 17:27:00
2020/02/27 17:19:05
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
During the first battle round, the Devastator Doctrine is active for your army.
• During the second battle round, the Tactical Doctrine is active for your army.
• At the start of the third battle round, select either the Tactical Doctrine or Assault Doctrine: until the
end of that battle round, the doctrine you selected is active for your army.
• During the fourth and subsequent battle rounds, the Assault Doctrine is active for your army
Other notable changes:
• Adaptive Strategy removed
• Centurions cannot ambush anymore
• Duty Eternal nerfed
• Cogitated Martyrdom doesn't work on vehicles anymore
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/27 17:33:16
2020/02/27 18:27:29
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I honestly don't think Canticles are a problem. They aren't great, but I will take something mediocre over something bad like our relics. Or the SM Doctrines now. Lol.
2020/02/28 12:52:12
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
So if one was looking to get the most out of plasma vanguards being transported in a drill, would it be better to run two units of 5 vanguard with 2 plasma calivers each or one full 10 man squad with 3 plasma calivers and a data tether to better take advantage of protector doctrina imperative and/or plasma specialists?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/28 13:04:52
2020/02/28 13:16:16
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Mr. Funktastic wrote: So if one was looking to get the most out of plasma vanguards being transported in a drill, would it be better to run two units of 5 vanguard with 2 plasma calivers each or one full 10 man squad with 3 plasma calivers and a data tether to better take advantage of protector doctrina imperative and/or plasma specialists?
Generally Id say 2 min squads are better, to score behind enemy lines, scatter for objectives.
If you put them in ryza however, which I often do with the drill it might be worth it to max them out and pop both stratagems for 2 cp, however if you are already running low on cp because of your other unit synergies I wouldnt take them.
On a similar note.
Lately I tend to use arcrifle rangers next to my drill for several reasons.
1 they are cheaper and you would trade the vanguards guns either way and dont need to run and gun as much
2 they are already at rapidfire range
3 its cheaper than plasma and they need to hold their ground on the outer edge of the table most likely
4 the drill already has a lot of high value weapons
5 in boats the plasma is more likely to get rerolls, if used defensively.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/28 13:16:45
2020/02/28 15:27:50
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Mr. Funktastic wrote: So if one was looking to get the most out of plasma vanguards being transported in a drill, would it be better to run two units of 5 vanguard with 2 plasma calivers each or one full 10 man squad with 3 plasma calivers and a data tether to better take advantage of protector doctrina imperative and/or plasma specialists?
Depends. The best setup is a Ryza Drill with a 10-man squad of Plasma Vanguard. You can stack Doctrina for +2 to hit then Plasma Specialists.
However, a Stygies Drill with 2x5 Plasma Vanguard is more flexible. I sometimes switch them up and put 2x5 Rangers in instead. If you find the points, you can give these guys Arc Rifles too.
Can someone tell me a short overview what the current admech meta is? Popular units? Forgeworld etc.
Would be great and awesome
The dominant setup right now is Boat spam. It's a firebase of Cawl + 3x Crawler + 3x Grator, then a mix of Fulgurites, Skitarii, and Boats, maybe with a Drill. Fulgurites are used for counterpunching Space Marines, though that suddenly became less relevant due to the nerfs to RG and IF. The Skitarii can be naked Rangers, Rangers with Arc Rifles, or Vanguard with Plasma Calivers. You can also bring bricks of Breachers, since they now do not give up Gang Busters.
Alternatively, you could bring a Krastsader to replace parts of your firebase, but flyers are still definitely a big part of the meta. And we're still waiting on our new Fast Attack and Flyer roles. That may finally open up Brigades to us.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/28 19:08:37
2020/02/28 19:07:42
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
What are people’s feelings on the omnispex in these plasma/arc units in transports? I definitely like them on 10 model special weapon units dropping in drills and take them when points allow on the 5 model squads. I hate to see radium carbines plink off 2+ saves when the target is in cover.
2020/02/28 19:11:01
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
xlDuke wrote: What are people’s feelings on the omnispex in these plasma/arc units in transports? I definitely like them on 10 model special weapon units dropping in drills and take them when points allow on the 5 model squads. I hate to see radium carbines plink off 2+ saves when the target is in cover.
I never take it because I would rather have the data-tether for the +2 Doctrina.
2020/02/28 20:23:12
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Can someone tell me a short overview what the current admech meta is? Popular units? Forgeworld etc.
Would be great and awesome
The dominant setup right now is Boat spam. It's a firebase of Cawl + 3x Crawler + 3x Grator, then a mix of Fulgurites, Skitarii, and Boats, maybe with a Drill. Fulgurites are used for counterpunching Space Marines, though that suddenly became less relevant due to the nerfs to RG and IF. The Skitarii can be naked Rangers, Rangers with Arc Rifles, or Vanguard with Plasma Calivers. You can also bring bricks of Breachers, since they now do not give up Gang Busters.
Alternatively, you could bring a Krastsader to replace parts of your firebase, but flyers are still definitely a big part of the meta. And we're still waiting on our new Fast Attack and Flyer roles. That may finally open up Brigades to us.
Thank you! So just a mars spearhead or pure mars (what i would prefer =p)
That a krastsader has a "comeback" is also nice
Admech & Deathwatch --------------------------------------
Don´t Hessel the Hof
2020/02/28 20:23:27
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
xlDuke wrote: What are people’s feelings on the omnispex in these plasma/arc units in transports? I definitely like them on 10 model special weapon units dropping in drills and take them when points allow on the 5 model squads. I hate to see radium carbines plink off 2+ saves when the target is in cover.
I would only bring omnispex with arquebuses, otherwise I wouldn't bother.
Generally Id say 2 min squads are better, to score behind enemy lines, scatter for objectives.
If you put them in ryza however, which I often do with the drill it might be worth it to max them out and pop both stratagems for 2 cp, however if you are already running low on cp because of your other unit synergies I wouldnt take them.
Depends. The best setup is a Ryza Drill with a 10-man squad of Plasma Vanguard. You can stack Doctrina for +2 to hit then Plasma Specialists.
However, a Stygies Drill with 2x5 Plasma Vanguard is more flexible. I sometimes switch them up and put 2x5 Rangers in instead. If you find the points, you can give these guys Arc Rifles too.
Thanks for the responses! I was originally going to run a full squad of 10 Plasma Vanguard in my Ryza list but I had thought about splitting them up into two units of 5 which would save me around 30 pts in my double Battalion list as I could've dropped a Ranger squad. Not sure what I could've done with those 30 pts except upgrade one of my Arc Ranger squads to an Arquebus squad, but I've heard you should be running at least 4 arquebuses or none at all (confirm/deny?). At least running the 10 man Plasma Vanguard option gives me some more bodes on the board which is never really a bad thing!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/28 21:05:33
2020/02/28 22:05:27
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Which inquisitors would you guys prefer?
I am primarily trying to add one, so I can boost the LD of my skitarii and sicarians, helps with destroyers LD too
2020/02/28 22:08:39
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
xlDuke wrote: What are people’s feelings on the omnispex in these plasma/arc units in transports? I definitely like them on 10 model special weapon units dropping in drills and take them when points allow on the 5 model squads. I hate to see radium carbines plink off 2+ saves when the target is in cover.
I never take it because I would rather have the data-tether for the +2 Doctrina.
Do you find +2 to hit rolls much more important than a +1 on a deepstriking unit? I haven’t found it really made much difference in my games so swapped the data-tether to an omnispex quite a while ago.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/28 22:13:20
2020/02/28 22:16:13
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
@Hesselhof
It's most because Big Game Hunters got merged with King/Titan Slayer. So if you bring a Knight with a ton of vehicles, there's no big difference.
Oddly enough, a Castellan might be good again too.
@Mr. Funktastic
Actually, I think 6-8 Arquebuses is ideal if you run them at all. The characters these days aren't Company Commanders anymore.
2020/02/28 22:21:09
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
The jezzei or whatever it is rifle that comes with dragoons is almost exactly the same gun, its just missing that little ring at the end and the clip is slightly different looking.
You could easily spam them if you got a bunch of those lying around as arq snipers, just gotta get the odd size base.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/02/29 07:55:10
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Yep, arquebuses seem to be an all-in type thing. The dangerous characters are very difficult to kill with them these days. It’s a shame that jezzails are so bad really, it’s often quite hard to get solid LoS with multiple arquebuses at once.
2020/03/02 13:39:03
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 111pts]: Belleros Energy Cannon, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber
Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 111pts]: Belleros Energy Cannon, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber
Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 111pts]: Belleros Energy Cannon, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber
++ Total: [156 PL, 12CP, 1,997pts] ++
Played at this weekend a few games, worked quite well, but do you guys got some tipps? I swichted the breacher to 2x3 and 1x 8
maybe replace the fulgurites? but for what, if i cut them i dun need two of the 4 dunerider =/
Admech & Deathwatch --------------------------------------
Don´t Hessel the Hof
2020/03/02 14:13:11
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Octovol wrote: Arquebus are a good bit longer than a jezail, but You'd probably get away with it as long as EVERY arquebus you field looks the same.
I've seen people convert them into arquebuses, with the right base and something to prop the rifle on theyre very similar and the average player would never know the difference. Gave my jezzails to a local new admech player for that reason and his turned out well.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2020/03/03 02:22:39
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
@Hesselhof
In my opinion, you should cut the Maniple investment.
Drop the Dominus and Servitors, go to 3x4 Breachers, add the fourth Ranger unit to fill the second Boat, maybe switch the Spearhead to Mars and put in Cawl. Ideally, make the Battalion that the Breachers is in Mars as well. The reroll aura is pretty much what makes the firebase so competitive. We have a very versatile and consistent firebase composed of cheap/efficient units.
Another reason why is that you need to burn a lot of CP to make Stygies Fulgurites do their work. Competing with Breachers is not a good idea.
Sounds to me like there's at least one more unrevealed AM model, either a Metalica named Skitarii Vanguard character, or a generic Skitarii Vanguard character, or one that can be built as either.
2020/03/09 23:21:17
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
God I hope so, we've been asking for a skitarii Alpha since the army first was released.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2020/03/10 02:45:21
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
- 3300 painted 
Admech & Deathwatch
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys