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It's not chasing ME out of the hobby.

However, I'm taking competetive events much less seriously now. I dont really think a win with orks or Lash is really anything to be that proud of after last years displays.

While not unbeatable, at least for most armies against most Orks list, they do seem to have an edge against most armies out there. And I don't think this has anything to do with people being unprepared for hordes, as Orkz have joined with the nids in the hoard armies that do not have to be fielded as a horde army club.

In my area, no ork army ever fields actual mobs of footslogging boyz. The only things that are on foot are boyz attached to snikrot, lootas, and the occasional shoota boy mob attached to a weirdboy trying to invoke the deepstrike power. Everything else is either a Nob biker, mounted in a trukk, or mounted in a battle wagon, the latter two often protected by a custom force field. It is not at all uncommon to have the ork player deploy nothing but trukkz, battlewagons and Nob bikers on the table. Against such an army, you actually require hi strength anti-tank weapons, not heavy bolters or flamers. In fact, I have added more hi strength weapons to my list to better counter orkz of all things. Flamers of course are still good to bring, just because flamers are useful against everything in 5th edition.

In the new orkz have gotten anything that makes them dangerous, its raw speed, not the fact that opponents don't anticipate a horde army. Properly constructed ork armies can initiate assaults within your deployment zone during turn 2. This is what makes them deadly, not that everyone is fielding anti-MEQ weapons(a claim which makes no sense, because AP3 weapons perform poorly in 5th do to abundance of cover saves, so there is a considerable advantage to just using hi rate of fire weapons or assaults to clear out MEQs anyway).

Even if the ork army on the whole is balance, there is one element that is not. The Nob bikers have absolutely zero business being fielding outside of apocalypse. There is no beating around the bush with these guys, they are some broken SOBs, who count as troops for reasons that are beyond me. These guys can single handedly take down an army, and a list composed of nothing but them, while perhaps not being as optimal as a mixed ork list, is far too effective for an army that is nothing but a spam of a single unit. This unit really needs an errata or a nerf or some kind of correction to bring it in line with everything else in the game.

Good points, Shep. Perhaps the Ork release was a major shift in the power-curve as well as the metagame, and things will gradually even out as Games Workshop gradually moves everyone else into fifth edition. This is a bit harsh for the majority of books out there, but perhaps in two years time (or so) things will be back to their usual `balance'.

Shep wrote:
I have written lists in multiple army books that can answer all four of those questions. While remaining a viable all comers list. Unfortunatly for the metagame, it is only 4 books. SM, CSM, demons and orks (who should be exempt from this discussion) Since those books are the 4 most recent, I would believe that new books will be able to withstand orks a lot better as they come out.

That sounds about right. What people fail to realize is that you really can't shoot Orks to death, you need to kill them in assault. What you need is hard hitting, durable units. That way you can use the 5th edition rules against them for being fearless and having a poor save.

Shep wrote:15 fearless T4 models with 4+ cover saves, screen by a large footprint shooty unit that borders on 'elite' CC ability just can't really be attacked in any conventional way. Here are a list of some things I have tried multiple times in game. 3x fire prism, out of range of loota return fire. 3x whirlwind out of los. 3x leman russes accompanied by 3x hellhounds. Flank marching sentinels with flamers andflank marching war walkers with scatter lasers.

The true counter to lootas is the counter that you use, and the counter that all of my lists that can give orks a game use. Just eat the shots, ignore them, and try and play on despite what they are doing to your gameplan.

The big problem with Lootas is their 48" range. If it was 36" or so they would be much more manageable, but no, they made them so they can shoot almost anywhere on the table, and they out-range a lot of guns that can be used to take them out.

Shep wrote:One of my massacres was to GT baltimore winner Neil.

He also won the Chicago GT. You stood in his way of a GW GT sweep.

Shep wrote:
In summary and in conclusion,
overpowered? probably

unbeatable? maybe for some armies

unhealthy for the metagame? Absolutely not! By forcing people to take answers to horde style armies, this opens the door to taking models with good armor saves without fear of an unrealistic amount of ap3 and 2.

This is the one good thing that came out of the Ork codex is that it swung the power spectrum so far over to horde side is that now everyone has to tool up to beat Orks, so that it might give Marines and MEQs a better chance at winning. It use to be everyone tooled up to fight MEQs, and loaded up on the las/plas, and now you can't do that anymore.