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6 points per boy makes up for the bloody evil cost and junk use of flash gitz ok?


also, orks dont allways win in combat

good trick with daemons is to use all 6 troop choices, take 3 units of 8 horrors and 3 units of 12+ bloodletters.

use horrors to wittle down mobs, then charge in with bloodletters, wont be much left to hurt you.



dumbest thing ive seen is someone taking kairos in his daemons against ork (fair enough) and then for some unknown reason taking skarbrand too 0_o
according to him it gives him the edge XD
yea, 30 orks throwing out 120 attacks on the charge, now your giving them re-rolls aswell? dumbass XD

lord_blackfang wrote:Or maybe it's your skill and tactics that are losing you games. Ever think of that?

Please, post your current GT record so we can compare it to Blackmoores.

Actually I would like all of these people who say the dex isn't all that to post their competitive record on a GT circuit. Do any of you even have experience with tournament level games? Apparently we are all still terrified of the *new* codex over a year after it was released. Must have been the same thing with Nidzilla in 4th, or Iron Warriors in 3rd.

If you play on a casual level, then great. More than likely both you and your opponents have fun and get to blow off some steam on Saturday mornings. (or whenever you play) So the entire argument of 'are orcs overpowered' doesn't even apply to you. But anyone trying to play in a competitive event has a staggering amount to scream about with GW's rampant power creep. Given that orcs and chaos consistently take away the most places out of the top 10 at a tourney, its kind of hard not to call the 'dex overpowered.

I think everyone needs to take a step back here and realize were talking about completely different types of players here. (A fact that GW tries very hard to ignore)

P.S. and Blackmoore, you do sound like Stelek there.

Platuan4th wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:So you categorically, one hundred percent were not actually outplayed?

*facepalm*

That is right.

You almost sound like Stelek here, Blackmoor.

How dare you!

I am good, but I never say that I do not lose, and that I can beat everybody and that winning is not a challenge.

What I think Mad Doc Grotsnik is trying to do is say that I might have been outplayed. Here is the complete batrep along with Shep's (My opponents) commentary. If you can point out what I could have done differently to win that game I would welcome that feedback.

Game 2 Las Vegas GT Batrep:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/218013.page

And for the record, I do make mistakes and I do get outplayed. I can dig up my first game of the 'Ardboyz where I was playing against eldar and I wasted 2 turns shooting at his Wave Serpents when I should have been shooting at his troops.

Blackmoor wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:So you categorically, one hundred percent were not actually outplayed?

*facepalm*

That is right.

You almost sound like Stelek here, Blackmoor.

How dare you!

Didn't mean to offend, just a joke. I wouldn't wish being Stelek on anyone, not even Stelek.

so the dex is overpowered because ork + chaos took most of the top sposts?
chaos have allways done so.
orks, well, how many players took ork for it? it was a new list, so im pretty sure there were alot of people taking ork.

and just a note, i didnt dispute blackmoor's ability to play, i know he is more than capable.

just a note though blackmoor, what was the list you took?

I, for the record, was not trying to insist that I was better than GT players, only that I hadn't encountered any issues with the new book, and that if I were to play other combos (though I have played a few of them) I might change my mind.

I'm sorry, I didn't know I'm not allowed to have an opinion unless I win at GTs. Better let the whiners know! We've had what, half a dozen GTs since the Codex is out, and I'm sure I've seen more than that many people complain about it.

Didn't mean to offend, just a joke. I wouldn't wish being Stelek on anyone, not even Stelek.

sorry, but that did actually make me LOL, sounds like some form of flesh eating virus.

JD21290 wrote:
tau take ork apart without many problems, just need a good plan and take out high priority units 1st.

This is absurd. Tau are the weakest army in 5th edition. Certainly Orks can be beat, just not by Tau.

My list for the broadside bash over in the armies forum won't have much of a problem with any incarnation of orks or meq's. It might have a few problems if someone brings closer to 8-11 vehicles but it's a balanced list that isn't worried about orks.

The trick a lot of people miss with orks is proper fire control and controlling charges. I haven't lost any games against orks yet w/my GK's, Marines, or Nids. To me people failure's to adapt is what's killing them, not the orks.

Oh and for everyone out there, sheer number of shots and templates kill marines just as well as orks. And for gods sake charge a wounded ork squad from time to time, you'd be amazed what happens.

This is absurd. Tau are the weakest army in 5th edition. Certainly Orks can be beat, just not by Tau.

have you used tau against ork in any games?
ive only played ork 3 times with tau, but so far im 2/1/0 with them, and the ork lists werent a bad build, not only that, but ive seen tau beat ork plenty of times.

5th hasnt made tau shooting any less devastating.

IntoTheRain wrote:

P.S. and Blackmoore, you do sound like Stelek there.

I just wanted to say that I was talking about that one game, and I do not think I was outplayed. Most of the post report criticism was directed at Shep and what he could have done differently, or what he could have brought that could have beaten my army.

I know Shep was a good player when he moved his lootas before shooting. A bad player would have shot, then realized that he was out of range, then would have moved them wasting a turn.

I also said that if it was any other deployment or mission, I would have lost. I feel bad for Shep. He had a good chance at winning the GT but he ended up against the wrong army with the worst possible mission.

And for gods sake charge a wounded ork squad from time to time, you'd be amazed what happens.

i dont mean this in an offensive way, but piss off
fire warriors are not built for fighting orks XD
have enough trouble killing gretchin in CC lol

Being the most powerful army is not the same as being overpowered, and it is certainly not the same as automatically dominating the game.

There's always an army that's the most powerful, that's a given, with GW's 1337 game design skillz.

orks are tough. their presence or possible presence in an event makes you cahnge you all comers list to all comers + orks. that being said certian armies are really good at killing orks. My berzerker horde loves to face ork armies. lash them in and make them dissappear.

marines could include a drop podding ironclad with two heavy flamers as loota remover. not only do you stand a good chance of taking out a squad of lootas. something else needs to go try and kill it.

yes they are overpowered in the sense you have to change your all comers list. with the guard dex coming out increasing the horde armies out there the all comers lists are less anti-MEQ so marines get better.

ok, just an example, but take any GK / marine army with raider spam, orks hate AV14, monoliths have to be pretty much ignored by ork, no matter what damage its doing to the boyz, unless of course you have a klaw close by.

yes they are overpowered in the sense you have to change your all comers list.

sorry, but i see the phrase "all comers list" alot, there is no such thing.
you mean a list that has average everything rather than more anti armour or more anti horde?

JD21290 wrote:

just a note though blackmoor, what was the list you took?

* HQ
o Inquisitor Lord w/Scourging, Bolter, 2 Sages, 2 Familiars, 2 Gun Servitors w/Heavy Bolters, 1 Gun Servitors w/Plasma Cannon
o Inquisitor Lord w/Emperor’s Tarot, Psychic Hood, Null Rod, Psycannon, 2 Mystics, 2 Sages, 3 Familiars, 2 Gun Servitors w/Heavy Bolters, 1 Gun Servitors w/Plasma Cannon
* Troops
o 9 Sisters of Battle w/Melta Gun, Heavy Flamer, Veteran Sister Superior, Book of St. Lucious, Rhino w/ EA and Smoke
o 9 Sisters of Battle w/Melta Gun, Heavy Flamer, Veteran Sister Superior w/Book of St. Lucious and Rhino w/ EA and Smoke
o 5 Storm troopers w/2 plasma guns Chimera w/Multi Laser, Heavy Bolter
o 5 Storm troopers w/2 plasma guns Chimera w/Multi Laser, Heavy Bolter
o 5 Storm troopers w/2 melta guns Chimera w/Multi Laser, Heavy Bolter
* Heavy Support
o Exorcist
o Exorcist
o Exorcist


I changed it to this for the Baltimore GT:

HQ

1. Demon Hunter Inquisitor Lord w/Psycanon, Null Rod
1. 2 Gun Servitors w/Heavy Bolters
2. 1 Gun Servitor w/Plasma Canon
3. 2 Sages
4. 3 Mystics
5. 3 Familiars
2. Chimera

This unit is good for starting on the board, and shooting the crap out of things. The plasma cannon with the sage’s re-roll are weapons of mass destruction. The mystics also go a long way toward slowing down a lot of armies. Then it has a lot of bullet catchers for durability when placed in 4+ cover (even though I can’t make a 4+ save).

1. Canoness w/Blessed Weapon, Book of St. Lucious

Nothing special, just a mandatory HQ with a little assault punch

Troops

1. 9 Sister of Battle w/ Melta Gun, Heavy Flamer
1. 1 Veteran Sister Superior w/ Book of St. Lucious

Standard squad. At the LVGT I took a rhino for them, but to lower the kill points, I thought I would put them in the DH Inq’s Chimera. It will also add some firepower to the army that I lost when I dropped a Storm trooper Squad.

1. 9 Sister of Battle w/ Melta Gun, Heavy Flamer
1. 1 Veteran Sister Superior w/Book of St. Lucious
2. 1 Rhino w/Smoke, Extra Armor

I wanted to add an eviserator, but I did not finish the model in time.

1. 5 Storm troopers w/2 Melta Guns
1. Chimera

An overachieving unit that was used to good effect at the LVGT.

1. 5 Storm troopers w/2 Plasma Guns
1. Chimera

A unit that I use to take down hard targets.

1. 6 Grey Knights w/2 Psycanons
1. 1 Justicar

A little assault and a little firepower to anchor the lines, and to hold objectives.

Heavy Support

1. 1 Exorcist
2. 1 Exorcist
3. 1 Exorcist


And I lost in Game #1 to...wait for it...Orks!

Batrep of Game #1 of the Baltimore GT here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Blackmoor_goes_to_the_Baltimore_GT

In this game I could have played better.

His lootas shoot my empty Chimera. He can only get 6 to shoot at it and he rolls only one shot each. He then rolls 3 hits at 5+ and then he rolls 2 '6's to get two penetrating hits and he blows it up. Grrrr.

I shot his Warboss on a bike because he seems like the biggest threats, and I roll very poorly and do one wound to him. I shoot at his Nobz at the top of the board killing one of them.

I unload my Inq squad at at boyz squad and kill just one ork. The Inq rolled 3, ‘1’s to wound and the Heavy Bolters rolled ‘1’s and ‘2’s. Not a good start.

Snikrot comes on and goes after the Exorcists, and fails to kill them, but he immobilized one (It was a mistake not to go after the SoBs).

Everything else shoots at the Warboss and puts only 2 wounds on him.

I shot my entire army at his warboss and barely kill it.

He has 3 guys on the hill and rolls a “6” for his Waaarrrggg move

I rolled 3 hits, and I ended up rolling 1, 1, and 2 to wound

no offence here blackmoor, but to me that looks like alot of bad luck on your part, and some crazy luck on his part, allmost everything in that game seemed to focus around dice luck, yours being bad and his being good.

that was nothing to do with orks being "overpowered" as everyone keeps saying.

Wow, this was an amusing thread to read, I'm sorry I missed out on so much of it.

Blackmoor stating that the orks are overpowered.

Everyone else beating him down for being a whiner.

I've never seen one person be so right against so many others who choose to ignore facts.

Adepticon
Vegas
Baltimore
Lootas with cover saves
100's of threads on dual bikernob lists
TONS of new ork players crawling out of the woodwork cause all of a sudden they can win games...regardless of how poor generals they are.

Forget it Blackmoor, you're arguing to a bunch of blind people that the sky is blue.

JD21290 wrote:

And for gods sake charge a wounded ork squad from time to time, you'd be amazed what happens.

i dont mean this in an offensive way, but piss off
fire warriors are not built for fighting orks XD
have enough trouble killing gretchin in CC lol

Sorry, that was a general statement where tau are the exception. A good tau player would move up and double tap close enough so that the ork squad would have to charge them next turn while focusing the rest of his force on the next unit in line. That will help create some space for you to manuever in while only giving up a single firewarrior unit in exchange for major damage to 2 maxed ork units in 2 turns. The charge statement was mostly for meq's who think it's a good idea to double tap and let the orks get the charge.

@Deadshane

They won some GT's. They were also chosen by quite a few very good players one of which has won multiple awards at GT's before this codex and with the old one. That proves the capability of the general, not the dex.

The sheer number of orks being played has sky rocketed. I remember for years being 1 of 2 ork players out of 90.

A total inability of tournement people who have played the same game for so long that they don't know another way to play to adapt to a new meta game and yeah their tough. But i haven't lost against them since the codex came out. Now is the codex good, yes. Is it ridiculous and over powered, no.

hulk, i know how to use tau mate, i was simply saying that charging in with FW's would get me nowhere lol.


allthough, all this "overpowered" junk is getting irritating, so i may lay my orks to rest for now and go back to nids or keep playing tau for a while until a new codex comes out and thats the new "overpowered" army.

this seems somewhat familiar when the marines dex came out.

are orks really the easiest army to win with... Yes. Excluding nob bikers are orks the best army... No. This is where the metagame approach to playing in tournaments is killing people. Orks are not that great in close combat. If your orky opponents are getting a ton of cover saves why aren't you shooting the closest units not in cover? I have lost one game against orks since the new codex was released and I don't design my lists to specifically beat orks. I use their disadvantages against them and take their strengths away from them. If you come to the table and feel intimidated when you see an ork army you have probably already lost before the first dice roll. Yes they are very good but they can be beaten.

G

Hulksmash wrote:@Deadshane

They won some GT's. They were also chosen by quite a few very good players one of which has won multiple awards at GT's before this codex and with the old one. That proves the capability of the general, not the dex.

Good generals also choose the army best suited to win a GT.

Hulksmash wrote:
They won some GT's. They were also chosen by quite a few very good players one of which has won multiple awards at GT's before this codex and with the old one. That proves the capability of the general, not the dex.

Like Blackmoor already stated, the ork dex makes bad players decent, and great players unstoppable. Blackmoor and I both know the guy who won the Adepticon invitational AND Baltimore last year. He's been stymied for years and while he's a good player he accomplished not only the massive feat of beating all the best at the invitational, but blasting baltimore out of the water...THEN winning the circuit for the year after getting top marks in Vegas as well. Neal is a really good player, and I've seen him in tournement now for 3 years running, multiple tournements a year, he's never even come close to this sort of success. NOT EVEN CLOSE, until 5e and the new codex...now all of a sudden he's the best player in the united states....EASILY?

It does indeed prove the the dex has a huge advantage. Not to take anything away from Neal, he's a great player, but great players become unstoppable with the Orks. It takes good players to make the best lists

The sheer number of orks being played has sky rocketed. I remember for years being 1 of 2 ork players out of 90.

big surprise there with all the tournements being slaughtered by orks. Heres a little news flash....People like to win. The ork codex not only makes it easy, but also has a great line of minis. Gee, I wonder why so many new ork players has skyrocketed.

A total inability of tournement people who have played the same game for so long that they don't know another way to play to adapt to a new meta game and yeah their tough. But i haven't lost against them since the codex came out. Now is the codex good, yes. Is it ridiculous and over powered, no.

maybe in your little pond, try playing with a larger base of players. How many top ork major tournement players have you beaten? My bet is "not many".

People tend to think that their local gamestore and local RTT's is somehow representative of the state of the game across the country. They're wrong. I have CLOSE constant correspondance with the guys that won all the trophies last year with orks at Adepticon, Vegas, AND Baltimore. Beleive me (and blackmoor) its no accident that orks are taking all of the Trophies....and for sure they're great generals....they know to take machine guns when everyone else are armed with flintlocks. Great Generals would know to do that.

TONS of new ork players crawling out of the woodwork cause all of a sudden they can win games...regardless of how poor generals they are.(Deadshane wrote that, still haven't got the hang of quotes.)

I've being playing Speed freeks for over two years now and have learned the hard way how to win with them. (especially when the were crap).

My present 1500pt list has no special characters, no lootas and no killkannon battlewagons. It does however have nob bikers (4 Of them!), hardly overkill, 5 meganobs in a trukk (ok they are a bit sick), a battlewagon with a zzap gun, kff, megaboss, 4 buggies and a massive 30 boys (in trukks mind you). Hardly a broken list, yet I still managed to dominate every game i played at a local tourny (we usually have pretty tough competition).

This was mainly due to my experiance as an ork player, and had little to do with using overpowered units.

So in short I think that to really crush with orks (or any army for that matter) certainly takes some good tactics and is not soley based on how good your codex. Even though playing horde orks isn't too difficult a smart general can defeat it without going totally anti-horde.

Hope that helps a bit.

Mookie.

Mookie Blaylock wrote:
I've being playing Speed freeks for over two years now and have learned the hard way how to win with them. (especially when the were crap).

My present 1500pt list has no special characters, no lootas and no killkannon battlewagons. It does however have nob bikers (4 Of them!), hardly overkill, 5 meganobs in a trukk (ok they are a bit sick), a battlewagon with a zzap gun, kff, megaboss, 4 buggies and a massive 30 boys (in trukks mind you). Hardly a broken list, yet I still managed to dominate every game i played at a local tourny (we usually have pretty tough competition).

Once again, local tourneys are not representative of the state of 40k nation/worldwide.

However, your point does serve the overpowered side...you once had to learn the hard way of how to win, but now you dominate....hmmmmm.

Even though playing horde orks isn't too difficult a smart general can defeat it without going totally anti-horde.

and what evidence to you have to support this conclusion? I'm of the opinion that.....

....not against an equally smart general they wont.

Shane are you saying that in general if two players of equal skill match up then the one playing orks should win?just curIous.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Shane are you saying that in general if two players of equal skill match up then the one playing orks should win?just curIous.

G

There are of course other factors, but in a nutshell...yes.