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So I'm guessing this would not be allowed in a GW store then? Unless GW started selling LEDs.

It's from the GW homepage today BTW.

Ugavine wrote:So I'm guessing this would not be allowed in a GW store then? Unless GW started selling LEDs.

It's from the GW homepage today BTW.

Why wouldn't it be allowed in a GW store?

It's the basic kit. Nothing has been removed, only things added. The things added were not from a competing company or an outside source such as a toy.

Kanluwen wrote:

Ugavine wrote:So I'm guessing this would not be allowed in a GW store then? Unless GW started selling LEDs.

It's from the GW homepage today BTW.

Why wouldn't it be allowed in a GW store?

It's the basic kit. Nothing has been removed, only things added. The things added were not from a competing company or an outside source such as a toy.

Wait, why would "a toy" be bad? One of the best sources for cheap LEDs and such bumf is cheap kids toys. As if a redshirt could "source" a little lightbulb anyway....

ArbeitsSchu wrote:
Wait, why would "a toy" be bad? One of the best sources for cheap LEDs and such bumf is cheap kids toys. As if a redshirt could "source" a little lightbulb anyway....

Supposedly the 'new' rule prohibits non-miniature wargame toys--as in action figure vehicles, etc-- from being slapped down on the table.

It's kind of understandable to not want that done.

Ugavine wrote:So I'm guessing this would not be allowed in a GW store then? Unless GW started selling LEDs.

It's from the GW homepage today BTW.

You are simply being obtuse.

Kanluwen wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:
Wait, why would "a toy" be bad? One of the best sources for cheap LEDs and such bumf is cheap kids toys. As if a redshirt could "source" a little lightbulb anyway....

Supposedly the 'new' rule prohibits non-miniature wargame toys--as in action figure vehicles, etc-- from being slapped down on the table.

It's kind of understandable to not want that done.

Ah, so just using a pound-shop police car would be frowned upon. I'm thinking more of gutting a pound shop police car and sticking the resulting wiring into a Rhino to make Arbites Rhinos (which was once, long ago, a plan of mine.)

AvatarForm wrote:
You are simply being obtuse.

I'm an ORK - DAKKA DAKKA!!!

I used my Praetorians on Thursday in my local store's Games Night. I was shocked by the number of gamers who did not realise they are GW product (now disavowed). The veterans I have made using Wargames Factory/ Secret Weapon heads and Victoria Lamb's kilted legs with cadian parts were passed around and commented on but I would not use them on the table, mainly to avoid putting the staff in the awkward position of having to ask me to take them off if such a directive actually exists. There are plenty of other places for me to use them in an army list.

Ugavine wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:
You are simply being obtuse.

I'm an ORK - DAKKA DAKKA!!!

I'd say a troll, actually.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:
Ah, so just using a pound-shop police car would be frowned upon. I'm thinking more of gutting a pound shop police car and sticking the resulting wiring into a Rhino to make Arbites Rhinos (which was once, long ago, a plan of mine.)

I think just putting the pound-shop police car by itself, with no modifications done at all, down would be frowned upon.

But a grimdarkified pound shop police car might be a different story

alphaecho wrote:I used my Praetorians on Thursday in my local store's Games Night. I was shocked by the number of gamers who did not realise they are GW product (now disavowed).

Wait, someone actually 'disavowed' the Praetorians?

This sounds kind of fishy. Or were you meaning "discontinued"?
Because the two meanings are nowhere near the same.

I've gone for disavowed (tongue in cheek) rather than discontinued due to the rumour that GW were "embarrassed" about them. They have not been in the last two codexes and the Glazer's Creek battle rules when redone in the Citadel Journal used Mordians instead.

But I have 4500 points worth and will never stop flying their flag!!

alphaecho wrote:I've gone for disavowed (tongue in cheek) rather than discontinued due to the rumour that GW were "embarrassed" about them. They have not been in the last two codexes and the Glazer's Creek battle rules when redone in the Citadel Journal used Mordians instead.

Did you ever think the reason they have not been in the last two codices and the Glazer's Creek battle rules were redone is because they simply didn't have enough Praetorians floating around the studio to use? Or that they didn't want to do a repeat of the original Praetorian situation, wherein people flipped out that the models were 'limited editions'?

In the UK at least, they were available for some time after the initial box release, even to the point they were available in blisters instore and additional models were available (extra lasgun variants and the missile launcher team). I picked up a lot of mine when Mail Order were running an "any Imperial Guard squad and Chimera" deal but that is going back to late 1999. But that's going off topic. As far as discontinued models go, I've never had a problem in store, even to the stage of still using a Space Crusade Chaos dreadnought.

Kanluwen wrote:

Ugavine wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:
You are simply being obtuse.

I'm an ORK - DAKKA DAKKA!!!

I'd say a troll, actually.

Well I was actually being serious with my original post. The LED Land Raider is not 100% GW, the title of this thread is, "GW Store 100% GW model only rule - ANY company product banned from in store use." And I'm pretty sure quite a few of the showcase models featured on the GW site are not 100% GW, especially the bases. I was also responding light-heartedly after being insulted and you had to join in.

GW are perfectly within their rights to say yes or no to anything in their store, they can refuse an official model if they want and can refuse to serve anyone without reason.

And just as GW has the right to make in store policies every customer has just as much right to shop or play elsewhere. There is way too much moaning and complaining about Games Worksshop, I wonder why anyone actually plays if they hate them so much.

for me its a case of:

really like the models, like the game, like the story, dislike the company lol.

been playing for 15 years now on/off and have really enjoyed the hobby, when I gripe its not because I hate all things GW its more I hate what GW is trying to become >.<


edit: I try not to whinge quite as much these days though, as lets face it, they will do whatever they like, I can only dictate my own actions. I only tend to pipe up if I see something outrageous like the new TK bat price or like I noted before the silly manager banning older models (although luckily the GW I go to now has a much more reasonable manager!)

Ugavine wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Ugavine wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:
You are simply being obtuse.

I'm an ORK - DAKKA DAKKA!!!

I'd say a troll, actually.

Well I was actually being serious with my original post. The LED Land Raider is not 100% GW, the title of this thread is, "GW Store 100% GW model only rule - ANY company product banned from in store use."

And?
The LED Land Raider is 100% GW. The lights account for absolutely none of the outer make-up of the model. That's what GW would be looking at.
They don't care if you hollow out part of your vehicles and add in lights. They do care when you spurn buying things from Forge World in favor of buying from companies profiting off their ideas.
They don't care if you buy plasticard and Green Stuff from outside sources and make something yourself.

And I'm pretty sure quite a few of the showcase models featured on the GW site are not 100% GW, especially the bases.

Yes, but if the submitters don't give GW the information--you won't see it credited. They don't have teams combing the Internet matching photos of your model pieces to some third party company, then dispatching strike teams afterwards.

I was also responding light-heartedly after being insulted and you had to join in.

You were making a post that's intended to take the 'rule' to the very limit and trying to get a response from people. These kinds of threads always end up as hatefests, and there's no need whatsoever to make posts like that within them.

GW are perfectly within their rights to say yes or no to anything in their store, they can refuse an official model if they want and can refuse to serve anyone without reason.

And just as GW has the right to make in store policies every customer has just as much right to shop or play elsewhere. There is way too much moaning and complaining about Games Workshop, I wonder why anyone actually plays if they hate them so much.

Yes, they do. However, it would be very much appreciated if you don't make posts that are easily read as yet more inflammatory dribble thrown onto an already burning forest fire of misdirected and ill-conceived hatred.

inflammatory dribble?

In what way?
If you find my Land Raider post offense then please report it to the moderators and I will discuss it with them. But is this entire thread not just another moan at Games Workshop?

Anyway, OT;
We were discussing 100% models. If you field a Dreadnought on a base from another shop it is not 100%.
Yes this is the extreme, but if the rule is 100% then that is the extreme. The Land Raider pic in my post is not 100% because it has the LEDS making it about 99%. Otherwise my Ork Land Raider is 100% with it's fishfood pot Deff-Roller, after all the actual Land Raider is 100% GW. But no, that model is not 100% and I accept that.

I understand that people can get very defensive about models they have spent money and time on but GW is a business.
Personally I think that any reasonable model will be accepted in store if the player has the sense and common deceny to approach the manger first and ask permission.

The "100%" only counts towards the model itself.

Replacing any part of the model's structure puts that percentage down. Adding anything on is simply that: an addition.

Kanluwen wrote:Why wouldn't it be allowed in a GW store?

It's the basic kit. Nothing has been removed, only things added. The things added were not from a competing company or an outside source such as a toy.

Because by GW's rules, its not 100% GW items. The items added are things GW doesnt sell. There's no difference between a shoulder pad added from a company and LED lights. Both are added for better effect.

carmachu wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Why wouldn't it be allowed in a GW store?

It's the basic kit. Nothing has been removed, only things added. The things added were not from a competing company or an outside source such as a toy.

Because by GW's rules, its not 100% GW items. The items added are things GW doesnt sell. There's no difference between a shoulder pad added from a company and LED lights. Both are added for better effect.

Actually there is.

A "shoulderpad added from a company" replaces an existing part. LED lights don't.

Kanluwen wrote:The "100%" only counts towards the model itself.

Replacing any part of the model's structure puts that percentage down. Adding anything on is simply that: an addition.

ummm. No.

Addition doesn't work like that.

A 100% GW model is GW parts ONLY. Adding non GW parts would make it X% GW + Y% whatever else.

You're bad and you should feel bad. But you won't, because you troll every thread you show up in and then call someone else a troll to deflect.

Captain Jack wrote:Vet status means that you are able to stand on your own two feet and toodle across to a club or start a club between yourselves. Lots of others have managed it, and then you get to be Das Heil and make your own rules. How cool is that?

Even better, people that are disruptive can simply be asked to never return.

Worglock wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The "100%" only counts towards the model itself.

Replacing any part of the model's structure puts that percentage down. Adding anything on is simply that: an addition.

ummm. No.

Addition doesn't work like that.

A 100% GW model is GW parts ONLY. Adding non GW parts would make it X% GW + Y% whatever else.

You're bad and you should feel bad. But you won't, because you troll every thread you show up in and then call someone else a troll to deflect.

Kanluwen isn't a troll.

He defends GW a lot -- in this case he is right.

There is an obvious difference between adding lights, and replacing a substantive part of a model with an after market substitute.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Worglock wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The "100%" only counts towards the model itself.

Replacing any part of the model's structure puts that percentage down. Adding anything on is simply that: an addition.

ummm. No.

Addition doesn't work like that.

A 100% GW model is GW parts ONLY. Adding non GW parts would make it X% GW + Y% whatever else.

You're bad and you should feel bad. But you won't, because you troll every thread you show up in and then call someone else a troll to deflect.

Kanluwen isn't a troll.

He defends GW a lot -- in this case he is right.

There is an obvious difference between adding lights, and replacing a substantive part of a model with an after market substitute.

He is right. There is a difference. After all, people use all manner of things on models without issue. Its mostly just these specific after-market kits from direct competition that are the sore point. Not that Eduard doing etched brass parts for Tamiya kits ever caused Tamiya any problems. GW really needs to get wise about the concept.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Captain Jack wrote:Vet status means that you are able to stand on your own two feet and toodle across to a club or start a club between yourselves. Lots of others have managed it, and then you get to be Das Heil and make your own rules. How cool is that?

Even better, people that are disruptive can simply be asked to never return.

Indeed. I have never understood the nerd rage that GW stores get on forums such as these. It's almost as though a retail store has to bend its knee to every whim of every 14 year old (age or outlook), who stamps their feet and crys at every slight either real or percieved. The stores are for support and to bring fresh blood into the games, not to provide a club to players who should be able to form a club and thus play games at their own leisure and points. Therefore not having to make way for sales (the reason for the shop) to happen.

Some people should know better, as they aren't neccessarily in GW's good books, nvillachi, I'm looking your way. Stirring nerd rage is never a good thing, some of the 14 year olds might vote with their wallets and stop buying third part kits

To finish on a good note, maybe this policy will make some of the lazier people to look for or start clubs. Claiming that there are too many difficulties might be overidden by the desire to play on their own terms... or maybe not

When GW can keep a store in the greater michigan area is when they can tell me what to bring or not bring.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:
He is right. There is a difference. After all, people use all manner of things on models without issue. Its mostly just these specific after-market kits from direct competition that are the sore point. Not that Eduard doing etched brass parts for Tamiya kits ever caused Tamiya any problems. GW really needs to get wise about the concept.

This is where things get fun.

In the case of Eduard doing photo-etched brass parts for Tamiya kits--Tamiya can't really do anything to stop them. The products they're making, in most cases, they do not own the likenesses to the object they're representing. Historical miniatures are kind of a 'gray area' in that regard as it's something real and tangible and there's no real "IP" involved outside of the company who originally produced it, which in many cases during WWII there was no one 'company' producing the item in question.

There was a fascinating article a few years back in a Fine Scale Modeler about how automotive companies are starting to crack down and requiring licensing from companies doing model kits of their cars. Dodge/Chrysler started it by trying to have a Willy's Jeep kit pulled for not accurately representing the original vehicle.

I understand why GW would do this to prevent their customers going to competitors but i doubt customers would be too happy about this.

ChaosWarhound wrote:I understand why GW would do this to prevent their customers going to competitors but i doubt customers would be too happy about this.

Just a guess, but may also have something to do with the CH lawsuit. Allowing CH bitz on models played in their stores could be brought up as evidence that those conversion bits are an accepted part of the hobby. Again, WAG on my part, based on the timing.

And, having had to play against some armies using plastic barnyard animals, and seeing a Peter Pan Crocodile as Throgg, I have a lot of sympathy for the 'no toys' portion.)

one of my friends broke eomer's foot and made a base out of lego

The same guy glued his wazdakka conversion to a standard lego brick for a stand and was surprised when the entire club noticed.

mikhaila wrote:

ChaosWarhound wrote:I understand why GW would do this to prevent their customers going to competitors but i doubt customers would be too happy about this.

Just a guess, but may also have something to do with the CH lawsuit. Allowing CH bitz on models played in their stores could be brought up as evidence that those conversion bits are an accepted part of the hobby. Again, WAG on my part, based on the timing.

And, having had to play against some armies using plastic barnyard animals, and seeing a Peter Pan Crocodile as Throgg, I have a lot of sympathy for the 'no toys' portion.)

Probably not far from the truth on consideration, especially on noting the location of the store. Hmmm, how to get fr... nah I'll stop there. I would still go to the shops in the frame of mind that if something is painted up nicely and it wasn't too obvious that it was 3rd party, and it wasn't shouted about then I can't see the manger having too much of a problem. Like I said earlier in the thread I run loads of different stuff that isn't strictly GW all the way through.