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I figure it's their store, they can put up whatever rules they'd like.

That being said... in 20+ years of playing 40k, I have never set foot in a GW store, nor do I think I'll ever need do so. Play at your house, your friend's house, an independent retailer... there are many possibilities that do not involve subjecting yourself to GW's corporate rules.

In other words... vote with your feet.

I must be lucky in that my local GW actually encourages conversions. Admittedly if they are not most GW stuff they sometimes have a quiet word.

But they are often happy to explain to kids hwo to convert existing models to get a different model that GW might not produce.

I spent a while aiming to keep all my minis GW-only so as to be able to enter tournaments, but given that there are now independent Grand Tourneys that are more competitive (no silly Throne of Skulls style "compare your score with other people using the same codex to determine an overall winner") and cheaper than the GW equivalents, I've relaxed my personal policy and will be buying a load more non-GW bits and minis. My nearest GW is not especially near, anyway... and I get more than enough gaming either at home or at the local gaming club.

Is this a US occurrence? The local GW that I have seems to have no problems with things like 3rd party headswaps etc.

In fact, most of the bad management/employee stories do originate from US based posters. Perhaps something fishy is going on at the US GW HQ?

no it does occur in the UK to, but it seems to be store specific, depends on the manager I guess.

I want to know though if its a GW policy:

I.e: are the managers who arent allowing older models/3rd party bits going along with GW or just making up their own rules
conversely are the cool managers allowing older models/3rd party going against the GW edict.

If you are sensible about it, you will be able to continue using your 3rd party bits, regardless of this latest proclamation.

I've used a variety of maxmini and pig iron bits, as well as conversion combinations from various GW kits, I have never ever had any trouble - and this includes the fact that one store I frequented had a real GW zealot manager who would have crawled naked through broken glass and flung himself infront of a truck if a directive from HQ told him to.

Whenever I've been quizzed about them, the answer I always give is 'green stuff' or 'plasticard'. So for my batch of maxmini heads I get praised for my immense green stuffing skills, to which I shrug modestly, and then I continue with the game.

The people who will have the problem are the loudmouths who will march into GW with their converted models held above their head, proclaiming "I have the right to use this model in here, just try and stop me." After which even the most 'human' of managers will feel obliged to kick you out, even if they might not have otherwise have done.

The point is not to draw attention to it, I think the manager would really have to have some kind of personal vendetta against you to make an issue out of it if you don't.

redeyed wrote:In a GW not to far from me, they dont allow you to use older GW models
you have to use "current edition"

The daemonette example I gave was a real one, old metals not allowed, only new plastic, which I personally think is disgusting as I much prefer the old metals. (and its their own damn product ffs)

If that is true, that is bull$*&#.

I don't think they can actually tell you not to use old edition GW models-they are still legitimate. Call customer services and complain about it. Give them the store address and they'll probably deal with it-at least by telling the manager it's ridiculous to ban OOP company models.

I found it disgusting and I actually emailed GW about it along with a friend of mine. Sadly as usual I got no reply. This actually occured a few months ago anyhow.

I mean its a GW product for goodness sake and its not like a metal daemonette is not fit for purpose and doesnt look the part!

BUT I do hasten to add I went to another GW store and the manager there was totally fine with them being used. Confused me at the time as I was waiting for a confrontation about it!

Snarky wrote:Is this a US occurrence? The local GW that I have seems to have no problems with things like 3rd party headswaps etc.

In fact, most of the bad management/employee stories do originate from US based posters. Perhaps something fishy is going on at the US GW HQ?

That's because GW has already managed to suppress GW games in other locations in your area.
Here, the FLGS competition is so strong that they *seem to be* trying to strong arm their way into a position of dominance.


If anyone wants to know how Americans react to people trying to strong arm us, they should reference the last 200+ years.
LOL the only people allowed to strong arm us are politicians, OPEC and our wives!


Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:

Snarky wrote:Is this a US occurrence? The local GW that I have seems to have no problems with things like 3rd party headswaps etc.

In fact, most of the bad management/employee stories do originate from US based posters. Perhaps something fishy is going on at the US GW HQ?

That's because GW has already managed to suppress GW games in other locations in your area.
Here, the FLGS competition is so strong that they *seem to be* trying to strong arm their way into a position of dominance.


If anyone wants to know how Americans react to people trying to strong arm us, they should reference the last 200+ years.
LOL the only people allowed to strong arm us are politicians, OPEC and our wives!


Eric

That's sort of untrue, seeing as you don't actually know what area of the UK I even am. There are at least 3 LGS I can think of in my area that are independent of GW and stock their products.

I think what people are likely to find is that many GW "Managers" are in fact the sort of power-mad butthole that got into wargaming entirely because they get to tell little men what to do. The kind of mentality that, when given real power, gets people killed. Think in terms of Ross from Friends in Band of Brothers.

GW haven't let none GW stuff in stores for years, its only pathetic when you don't allow GW stuff, like 2nd ed 40k models or really old fantasy models.

but then what muppet plays in a GW?

Snarky wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:

Snarky wrote:Is this a US occurrence? The local GW that I have seems to have no problems with things like 3rd party headswaps etc.

In fact, most of the bad management/employee stories do originate from US based posters. Perhaps something fishy is going on at the US GW HQ?

That's because GW has already managed to suppress GW games in other locations in your area.
Here, the FLGS competition is so strong that they *seem to be* trying to strong arm their way into a position of dominance.


If anyone wants to know how Americans react to people trying to strong arm us, they should reference the last 200+ years.
LOL the only people allowed to strong arm us are politicians, OPEC and our wives!


Eric

That's sort of untrue, seeing as you don't actually know what area of the UK I even am. There are at least 3 LGS I can think of in my area that are independent of GW and stock their products.

I was speaking in comparisons.
When comparing the GW market in the UK to the market in the US as a whole, I'm dead-on.
GWUK has a decidedly superior market share of stores with a good GW following over UKFLGS's with one. As evidenced by the decline of GW stores US-wide, GW does not have the nationwide foothold here that it once thought it would/could.

...again, "in comparison."


Eric

ArbeitsSchu wrote:I think what people are likely to find is that many GW "Managers" are in fact the sort of power-mad butthole that got into wargaming entirely because they get to tell little men what to do. The kind of mentality that, when given real power, gets people killed. Think in terms of Ross from Friends in Band of Brothers.

Wow its rare to come across someone even close to the same level of bitterness and distrust that Frazzled has, but it appears we have one. I will set you high in my counsel young padiwon.

redeyed wrote:In a GW not to far from me, they dont allow you to use older GW models
you have to use "current edition"

The daemonette example I gave was a real one, old metals not allowed, only new plastic, which I personally think is disgusting as I much prefer the old metals. (and its their own damn product ffs)


I think Gw has the right to say "no 3rd party models" in their stores, but they should be flexible regarding bases and the odd head/shoulderpad.


Conversely, a friend of mine attended throne of skulls last year. Which is supposed to have the % gw miniature rule. Apparently a guy playing next to him was using chaos space marines as termagaunts and a star wars model as a carnifex :S nothing was done about it.

GW have the right to impose any conditions at all on the models used in their shops. They can require you to buy, build and paint the army in front of them before you can use it.

In their shop.

You have the right to go and do whatever you want, with anyone's models, anywhere else you can find a venue. You have the right to never buy a single GW model ever again, and make all your WH/40K armies from substitute figures.

If you dislike GW's policy, don't be a slave. Play Warmachine. Play Infinity. Play Fire & Fury ACW, or Polemos 6mm Napoleonics, or Dystopian Wars Steampunk. Invite all your friends to join in.

GW is not the only game in town.

Kilkrazy wrote:

redeyed wrote:In a GW not to far from me, they dont allow you to use older GW models
you have to use "current edition"

The daemonette example I gave was a real one, old metals not allowed, only new plastic, which I personally think is disgusting as I much prefer the old metals. (and its their own damn product ffs)


I think Gw has the right to say "no 3rd party models" in their stores, but they should be flexible regarding bases and the odd head/shoulderpad.


Conversely, a friend of mine attended throne of skulls last year. Which is supposed to have the % gw miniature rule. Apparently a guy playing next to him was using chaos space marines as termagaunts and a star wars model as a carnifex :S nothing was done about it.

GW have the right to impose any conditions at all on the models used in their shops. They can require you to buy, build and paint the army in front of them before you can use it.

In their shop.

You have the right to go and do whatever you want, with anyone's models, anywhere else you can find a venue. You have the right to never buy a single GW model ever again, and make all your WH/40K armies from substitute figures.

If you dislike GW's policy, don't be a slave. Play Warmachine. Play Infinity. Play Fire & Fury ACW, or Polemos 6mm Napoleonics, or Dystopian Wars Steampunk. Invite all your friends to join in.

GW is not the only game in town.

What he said, but add in some weiner dogs, a large machete, and a bottle of Patron.

Frazzled wrote:What he said, but add in some weiner dogs, a large machete, and a bottle of Patron.

Now this guy knows how to party.

That is exactly what I do do, play at an independant club, LGS, with friends, alternate systems.


HOWEVER "go elsewhere speech's" aside

I believe banning their own models seems somewhat counter productive and tbh I think anyone would have the right to complain on that one after spending a large amount of money then being told you cant use it anymore. Its a totally different issue to 3rd party models. It is their own product!

Its more a point of principle than a "I have no other choice" issue.

redeyed wrote: I believe banning their own models seems somewhat counter productive and tbh I think anyone would have the right to complain on that one after spending a large amount of money then being told you cant use it anymore. Its a totally different issue to 3rd party models. It is their own product!

They're not saying you can't use it. They're saying you can't use it on their private property which they don't even charge for.

I'm going to diverge -slightly- from KK's advice.

if your local GW tries to ban you from using any model that's not the most current version, do NOT be silent about it. Take it up the ladder. Speak with *that* manager's manager. If that doesn't work, speak with *his* manager.
Somewhere up the line, someone's going to be really p!ssed off that this is happening. Their "corporate" policy is that it has to be a GW model. Period. They're not going to be happy about alienating us even further. Not at a retail level.

Eric

"rolls eyes" semantics @ balance!

Thats true enough Magical! I did at the time, but after I recieved no reply I just basically did what Kilkrazy was saying + I began frequenting another GW store where the manager wasnt a boob lol!


but anyway I'm not going to get into an argument on small parts of the issue! have said my piece on it, time to post on other more fun things!

my guess is (as others have been suggested) that in practice this would be used against people with models that are definitely not GW, and models with a bit of non-GW (Say, alternate heads) will not be pushed out, unless they're annoying about it.

It is only a problem for people who think a GW shop is the best place to play wargames.

Kilkrazy wrote:It is only a problem for people who think a GW shop is the best place to play wargames.

Indeed, a GW store should be the first place most nubes get a taste for playing. Once they have graduated to vet status there should be no need to get their game fix in store. Vet status means that you are able to stand on your own two feet and toodle across to a club or start a club between yourselves. Lots of others have managed it, and then you get to be Das Heil and make your own rules. How cool is that?

Mattlov wrote:Do I have to use GW dice, and tape measure as well?

GW also sells T-Shirts. Better prepare for next year's policy change

redeyed wrote:In a GW not to far from me, they dont allow you to use older GW models
you have to use "current edition"

The daemonette example I gave was a real one, old metals not allowed, only new plastic, which I personally think is disgusting as I much prefer the old metals. (and its their own damn product ffs)

If that is true, that is bull$*&#.

This has not happen in my region of the world, My Juan Diaz Daemonettes are allowed in game play because it is such an unusual and beautiful army to field on a game table. It tends to bring customers in to see what is going on.

Secondly, their has been an increase of people (in my region at least) wanting to play a pre heresy space marines. I highly doubt that GW is going to stop this because it sells models that are used for conversion purposes.

Frazzled wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:I think what people are likely to find is that many GW "Managers" are in fact the sort of power-mad butthole that got into wargaming entirely because they get to tell little men what to do. The kind of mentality that, when given real power, gets people killed. Think in terms of Ross from Friends in Band of Brothers.

Wow its rare to come across someone even close to the same level of bitterness and distrust that Frazzled has, but it appears we have one. I will set you high in my counsel young padiwon.

Nay sir, tis ancient cynicism based on long experience of all manner of GW managers, dating back to some of the earliest efforts to be a "proper" shop. I've met them all. The guy who used the shop as a crash pad after long nights of drugs and clubbing (who was actually quite cool), the guy who had a suspect tendency to "see" very young women in dark corners of local pubs, the round guy who thought he was in the CIA and gave away free stuff to girls he liked, the guy who used it as a platform to start his own shop up which he only ever stocked with games he wanted to play, the guy who got fired for about fifty counts of gross misconduct and may also have been offering favours to regulars of a terribly wrong kind (and looked like the cook from the BBC TV version of Gormenghast), or the really hairy guy who may have been an Orc and definitely drank a whole 9 gallon barrel of bitter on his own once then fell asleep with his shirt off (again). There are more.. so many more..and so many of them (but not all of them) were so far inserted in their own power-play that they would have annexed the Sudetenland given the chance.

Oddly, one of the coolest was the first guy. Shop was popping in his regime. And not because of his drugs habit.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:I think what people are likely to find is that many GW "Managers" are in fact the sort of power-mad butthole that got into wargaming entirely because they get to tell little men what to do. The kind of mentality that, when given real power, gets people killed. Think in terms of Ross from Friends in Band of Brothers.

Wow its rare to come across someone even close to the same level of bitterness and distrust that Frazzled has, but it appears we have one. I will set you high in my counsel young padiwon.

Nay sir, tis ancient cynicism based on long experience of all manner of GW managers, dating back to some of the earliest efforts to be a "proper" shop. I've met them all. The guy who used the shop as a crash pad after long nights of drugs and clubbing (who was actually quite cool), the guy who had a suspect tendency to "see" very young women in dark corners of local pubs, the round guy who thought he was in the CIA and gave away free stuff to girls he liked, the guy who used it as a platform to start his own shop up which he only ever stocked with games he wanted to play, the guy who got fired for about fifty counts of gross misconduct and may also have been offering favours to regulars of a terribly wrong kind (and looked like the cook from the BBC TV version of Gormenghast), or the really hairy guy who may have been an Orc and definitely drank a whole 9 gallon barrel of bitter on his own once then fell asleep with his shirt off (again). There are more.. so many more..and so many of them (but not all of them) were so far inserted in their own power-play that they would have annexed the Sudetenland given the chance.

Oddly, one of the coolest was the first guy. Shop was popping in his regime. And not because of his drugs habit.

Thank you for this post, a very amusing read and I agree entirely. I think every GW in the UK has had one of these managers at some point, although sadly I think their numbers are at an all-time low nowadays.

I think had I had previous edition models banned from use, I would go beyond just an email which can get easily lost in the maelstrom - write a hand written letter and make phone calls. The company is more 'corporate' now than ever before, but I still think there is a core of people at the heart of the company who have a genuine love for the hobby just like you and I. And like any genuine hobbyist, they would be repulsed by that ruling concerning the older models, and might well do something about it.

I have a questions. would my models here should be allowed or not, to be used at my local GW.



Cause i'm told i'm not allowed to use them, due to them not 100% GW model by the staff.