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i buy from games workshop online...cuz im a newb, prob should start buying alternative sites, save money that way, oh games workshop, i have such conflicted feelings towards you!

I don't buy X-Box Magazine and I love my X-Box almost as much as my gaming hobby....and THAT mag comes with a DISK with preveiw games, interveiws and all other stuff.

Forget it GW...I'm not buying your overpriced rag. If it's got interesting rules....I'll photocopy someone elses or get them off the internet.

I for one welcome WD being the central hub for the hobby's releases. GW are not ignoring the internet or other mediums there just choosing the most appropriate one for there needs. I for one would love to pick up WD or have it delivered with its content being a surprise. That's how it used to be go to the shelf and quickly flick through to see if your army was featured then rushing it home to sit and read it. It's got to be released somewhere and lets face it it will be all over the net the following day after release (probably as an illegal PDF) anyway. If GW are saying they wish to make WD more central to the hobby again and make it relevant fair play. Let's face it GW can't do any good for most people on this forum I will be buying the next issue.
Also if they did release it as a downlodable PDF or via an app or even website subscription the number of people purchasing the magazine would still massively out number any other sales. You only have to look at the issues surrounding floundering numbers of newspaper sales The Guardian on-line hasn't exactly stormed the web because information is free on the net.

The idea GW managers had behind this is to bring back customers to the FLGS and get first information there, and not the internet. Like it was 20 years ago before the internet. WD is first seen in the FLGS then next week in subscription. WD is released one week before new products are released. All other information for retail staff, customers, GW internet browsers is available also only one week before release. To achieve this, GW is currently reorganising to achieve this:

1.) New later publication of WD, subscribers get their WD hald a week later (if not a store subscription). WD is made prime medium for GW information.

2.) Retailers and staff also get their info on new stuff through WD first to maintain information control. So obviously no more quaterly release plans in advance. Basically staff reads WD Friday/Saturday, orders Monday and sells next Saturday. Makes releases in third week unlikely.

3.) No more black boxes, no more preview copies of Codices and army books. No more Incoming articles or early teasers on the GW website. No information at all before WD release.

Obviously, GW is fed up with internet leaks and internet flaming and also internet trade. This includes forums like Warseer and Dakka and also traders like Wayland and Maelstrom. They want to go back to trading as it was 20 years ago, where magazines and FLGSs dominated the gaming scene. Will internet users including Warseer and Dakka members like this? Probably not. Will people not having a FLGS nearby or in the same state like this? Probably not. But GW is risking this to get some internet buyers back into brick and mortar stores and get more information flow control.

This is a radical policy change on GW's side, foreshadowed by previous decisions but taken to the extreme now.

Will it work? Well, the WD July leaked. but then again think about how much information leaked by one person having access to the WD early (Storm of Magic, Vampires, Sororitas, CoD Update).

Will it stop people discussing GW on the internet? Obviously not, but GW does everything that discussion starts late when GW official pics are out.

Will it raise sales? GW managers think yes. You are free to have doubts. But maybe seeing this from GW's point of view makes things clearer.

Rather than improve the magazine to make it worth buying they just restrict all information about forthcoming releases to the magazine. That's not improving the magazine, it's just making it a necessity by choking other means of information.

I doubt it will last long because the world just doesn't work like that any more. GW just don't get the internet do they?

Kroothawk wrote:But maybe seeing this from GW's point of view makes things clearer.

You almost sound like you're... supporting... this new approach?

Nail and head Kroothawk.

Kroothawk wrote:
Obviously, GW is fed up with internet leaks and internet flaming and also internet trade. This includes forums like Warseer and Dakka and also traders like Wayland and Maelstrom. They want to go back to trading as it was 20 years ago, where magazines and FLGSs dominated the gaming scene. Will internet users including Warseer and Dakka members like this? Probably not. Will people not having a FLGS nearby or in the same state like this? Probably not. But GW is risking this to get some internet buyers back into brick and mortar stores and get more information flow control.

This is a radical policy change on GW's side, foreshadowed by previous decisions but taken to the extreme now.

Will it work? Well, the WD July leaked. but then again think about how much information leaked by one person having access to the WD early (Storm of Magic, Vampires, Sororitas, CoD Update).

Will it stop people discussing GW on the internet? Obviously not, but GW does everything that discussion starts late when GW official pics are out.

Will it raise sales? GW managers think yes. You are free to have doubts. But maybe seeing this from GW's point of view makes things clearer.

The idea that sites like these had any effect on GW's polices to early releases is laughable. No sick flame war here produced any change. Black boxes and newsletters announcements probably would've been taken away regardless of any rules leaks here (now actual pictures of early releases are probably a different matter).

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:But maybe seeing this from GW's point of view makes things clearer.

You almost sound like you're... supporting... this new approach?

I want to separate information and my comment on it, like in good journalism. I will comment later.

Fair enough.

Kroothawk wrote:The idea GW managers had behind this is to bring back customers to the FLGS and get first information there, and not the internet. Like it was 20 years ago before the internet. WD is first seen in the FLGS then next week in subscription. WD is released one week before new products are released. All other information for retail staff, customers, GW internet browsers is available also only one week before release. To achieve this, GW is currently reorganising to achieve this:

1.) New later publication of WD, subscribers get their WD hald a week later (if not a store subscription). WD is made prime medium for GW information.

2.) Retailers and staff also get their info on new stuff through WD first to maintain information control. So obviously no more quaterly release plans in advance. Basically staff reads WD Friday/Saturday, orders Monday and sells next Saturday. Makes releases in third week unlikely.

3.) No more black boxes, no more preview copies of Codices and army books. No more Incoming articles or early teasers on the GW website. No information at all before WD release.

Obviously, GW is fed up with internet leaks and internet flaming and also internet trade. This includes forums like Warseer and Dakka and also traders like Wayland and Maelstrom. They want to go back to trading as it was 20 years ago, where magazines and FLGSs dominated the gaming scene. Will internet users including Warseer and Dakka members like this? Probably not. Will people not having a FLGS nearby or in the same state like this? Probably not. But GW is risking this to get some internet buyers back into brick and mortar stores and get more information flow control.

This is a radical policy change on GW's side, foreshadowed by previous decisions but taken to the extreme now.

Will it work? Well, the WD July leaked. but then again think about how much information leaked by one person having access to the WD early (Storm of Magic, Vampires, Sororitas, CoD Update).

Will it stop people discussing GW on the internet? Obviously not, but GW does everything that discussion starts late when GW official pics are out.

Will it raise sales? GW managers think yes. You are free to have doubts. But maybe seeing this from GW's point of view makes things clearer.

I agree that it sort of makes sense. I mean, some of what GW does doesn't make as much sense... but using their mag as a foremost way to get info out there and actually posting RELEVENT articles to our hobby outside of shoddy battle reps and crappy "how-to" articles is a great step forward.

Honestly, we're gonna get leaks no matter what. Don't care what it is, stuff will leak, even if its just a bit of info (for example: I worked as an extra for the Avengers movie... so did about 600 other people; doubt everyones gonna keep their piehole shut). So giving people a REASON to buy the mag is a good thing for them. Heck, if they start moving the story forward and doing fluff in the mag like they used to would be rad too... people have lost touch with why they play their armies nowadays; so give us a reason to care!

Sorry but I still fail to understand how the release of news solely through WD is supposed to dramatically improve sales.

I want to find out what is being released:
Walk into newsagents
Pick up WD and browse
See what the crack is
put WD back on the rack
leave newsagents.

Not going to part with cash just because of the news and rumours of GW self promotion.

Seriously if that is the sole reason for buying it then one really ought to think hard about life.
Improved content I can understand people wanting to buy the mag again, but this?
GW are behaving like jerks as per the norm.

If the move to release news via WD was part of an extensive opening up of providing info for fan sit would be fine rather than the ever tightening grip.

Improved content is part of it: Just browse the 3-4 threads just discussing the content of WD July/August (CoD rules update, Codex Sororitas, new Vampire rules, Storm of Magic material, Fincast releases for July and August). Those two issues have more rules than WD in the last 2 years. WD will move away from just colour sprue pics and fake battle reports.

WD codex...how easy is it going to be hauling 2 issues of WD to every tournament every time and referencing everything? I'd be interested to see how they do it in parts, but nothing more than interested.

I understand they've done it before, but they certainly don't have the longevity of a decent codex. I guess after the disappointment of the Blood Angels WD, Grey Knights WD and Tomb Kings WD I'm pretty skeptical about anything more than the odd interview and 'words of wisdom' from the codex writers.

notprop wrote:

Gitkikka wrote:Awesome - I wonder what they'll jack the price up to this time?

Just buy White Dwarf, you will be the first to know*.


* - As of July 2011 appearantly!

How about I check the price in the local GW and laugh and laugh and laugh?

puma713 wrote:Good thing I can go into my FLGS and thumb through the new WD rather than pay nearly $10 for it.

Ah, someone else who does what I do. I haven't bought a WD in years and will continue to do so.

I have every issue since 132 , sad I know but it 's just not what it used to , so were a lot of things . The only reason I have still been getting it over the last 3 or 4 years is because my mother-in-law buys a subscription for my birthday or Xmas . Mostly , I barely glance at it before my son gets hold of it , flips through and says , meh . I'd be very interested to see if the changes actually improve it or it becomes just another GW flop .

I'm conflicted. I want the game "patched" if they truely intend to fix things (although I'm skeptical that any fix will be properly playtested). But I don't want to pay a fortune for it. This game is expensive enough and I would much rather see an FAQ online than only in their sacred magazine.

I would suggest staying with the FAQ but having much more in depth description of WHY the change was made in the White Dwarf. Heck, even add a leters section for rules questions and suggestions from gamers to the thing.

How does it pan out having the rules updated in the magazine?

Am just wondering if there are problems with some people seeing updated to rules whilst other players haven't.

Of course there is always the internet to spread the word

Also it who are the magazine rule "patches" aimed at?
Are new players likely to be as bothered by such aspects of the game? Just wondering if it contradicts what has been said about the demographics.

Platuan4th wrote:Translation: We realized people weren't buying our overpriced catalog and are now trying to rectify this by giving people what should have continued to be in it all along.

I think thats almost right but not quite.

Translation: We realized people weren't buying our overpriced catalog and are now trying to rectify this by making sure that internet rumours become even more vague than the contents of our magazine.

I see little that will actually change in White Dwarf, its a tightening of information flow to Warseer and Bols and a tightening on what redshirts are told. There is nothing to indicate White Dwarf will actually gain in quality as a result of this.

Wildstorm wrote:I'm conflicted. I want the game "patched" if they truely intend to fix things (although I'm skeptical that any fix will be properly playtested). But I don't want to pay a fortune for it. This game is expensive enough and I would much rather see an FAQ online than only in their sacred magazine.

I would suggest staying with the FAQ but having much more in depth description of WHY the change was made in the White Dwarf. Heck, even add a leters section for rules questions and suggestions from gamers to the thing.

Best approach, business wise, is to put the pdf FAQ up 2 months after the magazine hits the stores. 2 months gives enough time for the issue to filter out of news agencies and the like so anyone wanting it specifically for the rules update, and who intend to actually pay for it, have bought it. After that, put it online, since it actually does need to be in an easily accessible archive for future players who missed out on the issue.

Lots of roleplaying companies post addendums on the net. They can't playtest every possible loophole or exploitation of the rules that players will inevitably find.

They don't go out of business.

:p

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:How does it pan out having the rules updated in the magazine?

Am just wondering if there are problems with some people seeing updated to rules whilst other players haven't.

As in old times: Bring the WD to the game as reference and proof, that these rules are as official as Codex or army book.
Just like you bring a new Codex.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Sorry but I still fail to understand how the release of news solely through WD is supposed to dramatically improve sales.

I want to find out what is being released:
Walk into newsagents...

Not WHSmiths though, which cuts down on a lot of newsagents that people go into. I don't see White Dwarf that often any more, it's just not around like it used to be. I could almost see a glimmer of sense in this if they hadn't broken off their deal with the UK's largest newsagent retailer.

GW seemingly only want to sell to their 'followers'. How do they expect to get new customers when they don't advertise and want to distribute everything from their own niche shops?

GW again are trying to fight the internet age instead of adapting to it. Their 'solution' to the internet is to tighten up on leaks, prevent online discussion by their customers, to end information being released on their website, to combat customer excitement by restricting information to only a week prior to release, to restrict information to their own shops and own magazine, which oddly enough is largely only available in their own shops and retailers, they want to control traders trying to sell on the internet by clamping down on online shops that use such exotic functions as a 'shopping basket' and restricting where goods can be delivered, they alienate customers by going after numerous fan sites that nominally use a bit of their IP imagery...

Can anyone else think of a company that tries this hard to to fight against the internet age? It was dumb in the 90s, it's deluded today.

One would think that a company as big as GW was past the point of trying to "Un-Invent" things. Internet is here to stay, they better start getting used to the idea or they will become irrelevant.

Improving the WD - Good idea
Pretending the internet isn't there - Bad idea

This will come around and bite them in the ass. But what else would you expect from a company that moved back some ten, fifteen years in corporate strategy when the new millenium came around...?

Kroothawk]Hi,
I only have the German version of the GW newsletter, so someone else can post the English version please.

The newsletter describes the new direction that GW wants to take with White Dwarf starting with the July issue.
GW wants to make the White Dwarf the central and first medium for everyone to get first hand information on new GW releases.

Its not trying to un-invent the internet it's just trying to make WD more relevant. Rumours will still happen and these rumens will be answered in WD. Two hours after release it will certainly be all over forums such as this one. Don't see the issue with trying to improve a magazine that GW know is less popular than it was.

GW meeting "how do we improve WD?"
"I know lets put some articles, new releases and useful references back in as we used to"
"What a great idea"

Nothing will change except WD. Peeps here are looking at this at such an odd angle just trying to find fault. I know GW have done unpopular things but they should be judged without such a criticism pre-emptively.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Sorry but I still fail to understand how the release of news solely through WD is supposed to dramatically improve sales.

I want to find out what is being released:
Walk into newsagents...

Not WHSmiths though, which cuts down on a lot of newsagents that people go into. I don't see White Dwarf that often any more, it's just not around like it used to be. I could almost see a glimmer of sense in this if they hadn't broken off their deal with the UK's largest newsagent retailer.

Not just their own stores either, WhSmith supply about half the countires independants with magazines and papers as well, so unless you are lucky to live in a John Menezies area, you'll only find WD in the local GW.

Howard A Treesong wrote:
Can anyone else think of a company that tries this hard to to fight against the internet age? It was dumb in the 90s, it's deluded today.

Apple. They hate internet leaks to the extent that chinese workers who were responsible for 'missing' phones committed suicide. Yes. People died because of Apple's paranoia that was mistakenly passed on by the Chinese companies. Apple are a luxury goods company with a niche market and they have profits of billions of dollars. They made $6 bn profits in the three months leading up to December 25 2010.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Howard A Treesong wrote:
Not WHSmiths though, which cuts down on a lot of newsagents that people go into. I don't see White Dwarf that often any more, it's just not around like it used to be. I could almost see a glimmer of sense in this if they hadn't broken off their deal with the UK's largest newsagent retailer.

WHSmith charge a premium for stocking a magazine and putting it in the front rack. I think GW were right not to let themselves get screwed over. I also know that in my local area (Croydon) WHSmith always put out WD early so our local GW store lost out on sales. While I like to support my local store, if they wouldn't sell me WD on a Friday then I'd buy it in WHSmiths because I cant stand going into town on a Saturday. GW were able to save money by not having WHSmith stock it and get a few more folks to their store.

AnkyG wrote:

Kroothawk]Hi,
I only have the German version of the GW newsletter, so someone else can post the English version please.

The newsletter describes the new direction that GW wants to take with White Dwarf starting with the July issue.
GW wants to make the White Dwarf the central and first medium for everyone to get first hand information on new GW releases.

Its not trying to un-invent the internet it's just trying to make WD more relevant. Rumours will still happen and these rumens will be answered in WD. Two hours after release it will certainly be all over forums such as this one. Don't see the issue with trying to improve a magazine that GW know is less popular than it was.

GW meeting "how do we improve WD?"
"I know lets put some articles, new releases and useful references back in as we used to"
"What a great idea"

Nothing will change except WD. Peeps here are looking at this at such an odd angle just trying to find fault. I know GW have done unpopular things but they should be judged without such a criticism pre-emptively.

Did you miss the part where they choked off any form of previews whatsoever? I wouldn't be surprised to see ANOTHER decline in rumors. You remember ye olden times? There used to be an age where the rumor forums were ripe, many rumormongers walked the meadows and we actually had some decent idea what was coming up in the next months. Now? Shots in the dark, far cries and something solid once preorders are up. After this? Well, I guess GW will punish any leaks even harder, which means that more informants will shy out of it. And I have no doubt that pulling things like the spreading of decent information shortly before NDA kicks in, like stickymonkey used to do for example, will result in complications. Most likely NDA will kick in even earlier. Nobody will know what is coming until it's actually there.