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DeffDred wrote:

wanted to work in a morgue, is it any good?

Fantastic pay, tolerable hours, snappy dress code.

Sad people everywhere you go. Dead bodies are HEAVY!

Older generations call you a theif or graverobber.

But I can now claim to have dispossed of countless bodies in an oven. And I've accidently smashed a guys skull open.

Cooked brains are neon pink. And look like strawberry cake.

you forgot the potential for pranks on co-workers

Warrior Squirrel wrote:Well atleast we have concluded that Tau females do not have breasts.

Wrong. We only know that (if at least this pic of Xenology is correct) at least one female Tau is flat chested. There is variety even among humans.

Grey Templar wrote:The pheremone and Diamond thingy, like was stated before, are completely canon. Etherials have the Diamond thingy, which is the source of the Pheremone control.

Wrong, as stated before.

DeffDred wrote:Then there is only one female Tau in existance. Shadow sun.
There are no other females in the game, codex or fluff.

Wrong. Never state that there is only one female tau in fluff and talk about another female tau in the next of your posts. Apart from Xenology, the novel "Fire Warrior" features many female tau, water caste and fire caste. Then there is Shadowsun's sister, although I have not checked if that is only fan fiction.



no need for language like this. Please don't post things like this again.
Reds8n

Boobs. Haha. Stupid argument.

I have no evidence on it one way or the other, but I always imagined genetically identified matches based on genetic databases used in conjunction with harvested reproductive material. The little blue-hoofs would be taken care of in a communal setting, speeding education, and determining the areas required for training. This would, of course, be a more recent development given the technology required.

The pheromone control thing is just a suspicion and hasn't been confirmed. It was only speculated by a xenographer for the Imperium, as they can not conceive of any race willingly just being nice to one another and working for a common purpose without being selfish jerks. Since Humanity can't do that, clearly the Etherials must "force" the rest of the race to do so with mind control powers, right?

Consider the source. That piece of background was made with an intentionally biased anthrocentric view. From the Eldar point of view The Imperium of Man's greatest warriors amount to little more than monkey's with pointed sticks hurling poo. Does that mean that Imperial Commanders REALLY issue orders with rations of bannanas?

Nagashek wrote:The pheromone control thing is just a suspicion and hasn't been confirmed. It was only speculated by a xenographer for the Imperium, as they can not conceive of any race willingly just being nice to one another and working for a common purpose without being selfish jerks. Since Humanity can't do that, clearly the Etherials must "force" the rest of the race to do so with mind control powers, right?

Consider the source. That piece of background was made with an intentionally biased anthrocentric view. From the Eldar point of view The Imperium of Man's greatest warriors amount to little more than monkey's with pointed sticks hurling poo. Does that mean that Imperial Commanders REALLY issue orders with rations of bannanas?

Well the pheromone thing does have evidence behind it (or so i believe.) Remember how Farsight disbanded himself from the Tau empire and set up his own enclaves. Ya, that was because all of his Ethereals died on the planet he picked up his Dawn Blade. Also going back on Tau history, the Tau civil war stopped in its tracks as soon as the Ethereals showed up. Now I know this doesn't prove it one hundred percent but it does hint to that the mere presence of an Ethereal allows them to have "control" over their populace without everyone taking up arms and killing each other.

We're assuming here that Tau are sufficiently sexually dimorphic that we puny humans can tell the genders apart through the armor. How do you know there are no female models? How are you planning to tell them apart?

Boobs are female. Male boobs are not for the greater good. So thats how I would tell them apart. Boobs.

DeffDred wrote:

wanted to work in a morgue, is it any good?

Fantastic pay, tolerable hours, snappy dress code.

Sad people everywhere you go. Dead bodies are HEAVY!

Older generations call you a theif or graverobber.

But I can now claim to have dispossed of countless bodies in an oven. And I've accidently smashed a guys skull open.

Cooked brains are neon pink. And look like strawberry cake.

Awesome. I'll either be that, or a roboticist.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

CpatTom wrote:Boobs are female. Male boobs are not for the greater good. So thats how I would tell them apart. Boobs.

Steals for signature!

Kroothawk wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:The pheremone and Diamond thingy, like was stated before, are completely canon. Etherials have the Diamond thingy, which is the source of the Pheremone control.

Wrong, as stated before.

You are in denial. Doesn't make anything wrong.

Kroothawk wrote:
If you don't have a clue on a subject, why not just STFU?

So you admit you got no clue?

Commander Ice Shade wrote:

Nagashek wrote:The pheromone control thing is just a suspicion and hasn't been confirmed. It was only speculated by a xenographer for the Imperium, as they can not conceive of any race willingly just being nice to one another and working for a common purpose without being selfish jerks. Since Humanity can't do that, clearly the Etherials must "force" the rest of the race to do so with mind control powers, right?

Consider the source. That piece of background was made with an intentionally biased anthrocentric view. From the Eldar point of view The Imperium of Man's greatest warriors amount to little more than monkey's with pointed sticks hurling poo. Does that mean that Imperial Commanders REALLY issue orders with rations of bannanas?

Well the pheromone thing does have evidence behind it (or so i believe.) Remember how Farsight disbanded himself from the Tau empire and set up his own enclaves. Ya, that was because all of his Ethereals died on the planet he picked up his Dawn Blade. Also going back on Tau history, the Tau civil war stopped in its tracks as soon as the Ethereals showed up. Now I know this doesn't prove it one hundred percent but it does hint to that the mere presence of an Ethereal allows them to have "control" over their populace without everyone taking up arms and killing each other.

Its fascinating how hard people try to ignore an idea GW has run with all the time.
Not just in the release article in WD, codex TaU, codex Tau empire, multiple BL books...
The pheromone control is a given.
To say its pure speculation may have had a chance at release, but now?

We don't know the level of control it provides and still there are claims it does not exist. But it does.
I am aware there a things parts of the fan base of a faction in 40k aren't happy with. Wouldn't it improve threads if we accept it instead of calling fellow dakkanauts wrong? Because multiple sources mean also multiple PoV....

Have you read HH novels, how normal humans react to the presence of Primarchs? Same reaction as Tau react to ethereals. So obvioulsy Primarchs mind control the IoM with perfumes!

Ever wondered why a country like USA with extremely high murder rate is directly bordering Canada, a country with extremely low murder rate? Obviously Premier Harper is emitting pheromones to mind control Canadians! Because things like culture, social interaction and charisma don't exist!

BTW if you think you have explicit proof of the pheromone thing, why not just quote the source? The wild speculation of a mad inquisitor in a book with obvious other fluff mistakes is not good enough for me.

Two Tau codexes. Both mention pheremon controll. And Tau do NOT have boobs. Just look at their chest area. The men dont even have abs.

CpatTom wrote:Boobs are female. Male boobs are not for the greater good.

http://wickedstar.deviantart.com/art/For-da-greaterest-gooderer-130158791

1hadhq wrote:I am aware there a things parts of the fan base of a faction in 40k aren't happy with. Wouldn't it improve threads if we accept it instead of calling fellow dakkanauts wrong? Because multiple sources mean also multiple PoV....

It would improve threads if people would accept that there are different interpretations of 40k fluff, depending entirely on whose writings you're going to read. No, people who claim the existence of pheromone control are not wrong, but neither are those who claim its non-existence. The same applies to hooves and boobs. It's quite simply different perceptions of the setting, borne of the consumption of different sources.

Personally, I'm still on the fence regarding this alleged pheromone control thing. I do believe it's an interesting idea, though I see both good as well as bad points about it, from a narrative point of view. I will point out that I am not aware it was ever mentioned or even hinted at in anything the GW game designers have written, though, only licensed material such as Xenology which also clashes with the studio version on the issue of feet. Not that this would mean anything beyond there being a certain gap between the versions of Tau as propagated by the different sources.

Warrior Squirrel wrote:Two Tau codexes. Both mention pheremon controll.

Do you happen to have a page number? I'd be very interested on reading up on that in case I missed it.

Ill check it when I get back home in a few days. But I dont see why I should. You are just going to ignore the proof like a creationist. You dont even have a single piece of evidence but when we show real stuff you go " NO ITS NOT TRUE! BOOBS ARE REAL! BOOBS ARE REAL!" I do not see a point arguing with you boobionists.

Lynata wrote:

Warrior Squirrel wrote:Two Tau codexes. Both mention pheremon controll.

Do you happen to have a page number? I'd be very interested on reading up on that in case I missed it.

3. ed Tau codex has nothing about Etherals with pheromones (or it is really well hidden). 4. ed Tau codex has the following (page 9):

It is speculated that they exert some kind of pheromone based or latent psychic control over the other casters

But it is just outsider mish-mash and speculation.

Warrior Squirrel wrote:But I dont see why I should.

Because it would make you look less like a person simply conjuring "proof" out of thin air. We already know that even Lexicanum makes false claims regarding what the Codices say, after all, and there is a lot of "misremembering" going on in the playerbase regarding who said what.

Not that I think you'd be able to convince everyone, mind you - it remains an interpretation. But in my experience, people do value Codex fluff a lot more than something written by a random author in licensed material, as the "level of consistency" between the studio books is far greater than between BL/BI/FW/FFG material.

Also, I wouldn't lump every single disagreement into a big pot and see everyone as an enemy of yours in this discussion. I'm sure there are others who agree with you regarding Tau not having boobs but still argueing that pheromone control does not exist. Just as I think it could, but my mind being pretty much set on the existence of boobs or all Tau having hooves instead of feet, at least as long as GW does not release artwork or miniatures to the contrary.

AtoMaki: Thanks! That settles it for me, I think.

Lynata wrote:Do you happen to have a page number? I'd be very interested on reading up on that in case I missed it.

People posting such stuff usually don't give sources, because others might read the sources and see they made up stuff.
In this case people are referring to the Ethereals entry on page 9, where an Imperial narrator speculates about some kind of pheromonic OR psychic control, because he can't understand the absolute authority ethereals have over other castes. On the next page it is said that Tau honour the ethereals for their wisdom and therefore follow their counsel, but you never find this quoted in Tau threads. Because only brutal mind control can keep people from killing each other, not rationality, wisdom, and charismatic leaders

Remember, the ethereals are a.o. inspired by the role the Japanese Tenno had until the end of WW2. Japanese worshipped him as a Godlike being, so he had to denounce being Godlike as part of the surrender conditions.

Hmm, will have to take a read myself then and see what "feels" best. I really can't decide which option I like more. Pheromone control fits with the overall grimdark theme of 40k and the telepathic command helmets they use for commanding the vespids (or could it be possible that the quote was referring to this instead of control over other Tau?), yet I'd also like if it is "merely" based on propaganda and an unusually strong sense of community, or the extreme level of reverence you mentioned by comparing them to the Japanese Emperors. After all, any sort of pheromones would not work on the human auxiliaries that joined their empire, and still they seem to be just as dedicated.

Warrior Squirrel wrote:Two Tau codexes. Both mention pheremon controll. And Tau do NOT have boobs. Just look at their chest area. The men dont even have abs.

Those look like abs

Hmm. Looking at the second miniature, that below the "collar" does look a lot like manbreasts, which - given that muscle packs in this area wouldn't make a lot of sense - evolutionwise would seem to suggest the existence of (non-prominent) glands as part of their general physique and hinting at lactation for the purpose of feeding their young, just like with Humans and Eldar. The question is how much larger the female version might be?

There is Aun'Va's Guards aswell

Grey Templar wrote:

Mentlegen324 wrote:

Warrior Squirrel wrote:Coa there is a pic of the Tau before the dissection. Jeez, read what I write you, you hamster!

That picture shows two things to be completely different from what we know is true (the hooves, and they have never had a diamond in their forehead, unless i've missed it), why should we trust it about anything else? It's just Artistic license. There are many contradicting things in W40K, but they are mostly all Canon. Not everything is straightforward and mistakes can be made.

The whole pheremone idea it suggests would also completely change what the Tau are, and would ruin them for many people.

The pheremone and Diamond thingy, like was stated before, are completely canon. Etherials have the Diamond thingy, which is the source of the Pheremone control.

Picture of Etherial Model on GW's site.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440178a&prodId=prod1060273&rootCatGameStyle=

see the red thing in the middle of the forhead slit.

The Ethereal model and Aun'shi do not support the Diamond-thing in the Forehead. They are completely different from what Xenology Shows. On those models it is actually in the slit in their forehead, and is not a diamond. The Latest Ethereal models do not show it Either.

It seems more like decoration (What is on the models), considering Aun'Va's Guards have something similar on page 43 of the Codex, So does the Tau during the Ta'Lissera ritual on page 37 and several other peices of art in the Latest and Older codex also appear to have something similar, and then there's Aun'shi on page 33 who does not have it there.

The Pheremones are not complete canon. Several places suggest a calming influence, but do not state what causes it. A similar thing happens to Imperials in the presence of Great people like Primarchs. Does not mean it is Pheremones.

Kroothawk wrote:Have you read HH novels, how normal humans react to the presence of Primarchs? Same reaction as Tau react to ethereals. So obvioulsy Primarchs mind control the IoM with perfumes!

Lorgar was slightly psychic and held great speeches, swaying the masses to a cause. Primarchs don't need pheromones. Maybe humans are less pheromone driven than Tau?

And I if you cared to read my post, I never said mind controlled with perfumes.

You seem to think I assume the Tau act like puppets, their will overcome like a psyker may try to.
Ever thought of the possibility of rhetoric combined with empathy? Of the possibility a etheral can talk them an ear off AND is able to influence their feelings? I doubt you could resist GW retail if they could not just show you a product, but also make you feel good when thinking of this purchase and totally sell you That army...
( before you cry foul, none of the common retail tricks )

You can control the mind and decisions made in other ways than dominating said mind with psychic powers.
Etherals shape the future by carefully influencing the Tau's thought process, because its their teachings they follow. They keep the castes in check with their influence of their moods, becalming the temper of the fire caste for example.
All you need is good rhetoric, indoctrination, and as icing on the cake influence on the subjects feelings.

And nice words are not the solution to everything.

Kroothawk wrote:
BTW if you think you have explicit proof of the pheromone thing, why not just quote the source? The wild speculation of a mad inquisitor in a book with obvious other fluff mistakes is not good enough for me.

This ball is still in YOUR half.
Either succeed in kicking it back with a quote disproving this pheromone based influence, or stop claiming it does not exist in any form.

Lynata wrote:
No, people who claim the existence of pheromone control are not wrong, but neither are those who claim its non-existence. The same applies to hooves and boobs. It's quite simply different perceptions of the setting, borne of the consumption of different sources.

The problem with non-existance is GW used that idea from start and kept it.
Unlikely they "let go" and state it doesn't exist.
Maybe if they did in their second codex, but they didn't. GW has no problem since its vague enough. They can build up from there.

Kroothawk wrote:...posting such stuff usually don't give sources, because others might read the sources and see they made up stuff.

You must have a copy of this line bookmarked for easy use. Its to common in your posts to be written each time anew.

Plus, you missed the chance to disprove it with sources stating the opposite. Maybe you can't?
The lack of sources of your claims could also mean your statements are based upon made up stuff.
Sounds possible....

Kroothawk wrote:
Because only brutal mind control can keep people from killing each other, not rationality, wisdom, and charismatic leaders

Remember, the ethereals are a.o. inspired by the role the Japanese Tenno had until the end of WW2. Japanese worshipped him as a Godlike being, so he had to denounce being Godlike as part of the surrender conditions.

So TAu got a god-emporer now?
Any rumors of aun'VA retconned to god-emporer of TAU? I mean they began to build a TEMPLE ....

Seriously, mind control is a feature of psykers. A small mind lost in a sea of a hive-mind is the feature of tyranids. The limited choices of the indoctrinated mind combined with the grasp an etheral has on their moods is enough to steer them , not like puppets but like nice loyal minions dedicated to the cause of their betters. A psyker could control a few creatures temporary. The hive mind can control its splinters and the swarm almost all the time but can be cut off. Etherals may not control each Tau, but their training, teachings, leaders, etc. and thus their whole life. A bit more effective than beiing close enough like psykers or the hive mind have to be.

Certain civilazitions had this god like beeing thing going on, but some reqired the leader to prove his status regularly.
Any tests used to see if the etherals still have the favor of the gods?.....wait. TAU don't know this concept of Gods.
So how do they venerate etherals like a god-like beiing if they know no Gods?

A cult, dedicated to a person, could remind people of a system you don't want to be their inspiration....


Sorry for lack of boobz in this reply.

Lynata wrote:Hmm, will have to take a read myself then and see what "feels" best. I really can't decide which option I like more. Pheromone control fits with the overall grimdark theme of 40k and the telepathic command helmets they use for commanding the vespids (or could it be possible that the quote was referring to this instead of control over other Tau?), yet I'd also like if it is "merely" based on propaganda and an unusually strong sense of community, or the extreme level of reverence you mentioned by comparing them to the Japanese Emperors. After all, any sort of pheromones would not work on the human auxiliaries that joined their empire, and still they seem to be just as dedicated.

I've always thought of it as a sort of super charisma possibly reinforced by pheremones.

After all, humans are often influenced by people with charismatic powers that are difficult to understand or quantify scientifically: Bill Clinton and Steve Jobs come to mind.

Have you read HH novels, how normal humans react to the presence of Primarchs? Same reaction as Tau react to ethereals.

Source?

Ever wondered why a country like USA with extremely high murder rate is directly bordering Canada, a country with extremely low murder rate?

I fail to see the point you're trying to make.

Ever wondered why a country like USA with an extremely high English speaking populace is directly bordering Canada, a country with an extremely high French speaking populace?

Have you read HH novels, how normal humans react to the presence of Primarchs? Same reaction as Tau react to ethereals.

There is a difference between awe and reverence to mindless obedience. The Traitor legions had to purge members that were loyal to the Emperor. If there was mind control going on then there would have been no dissenters like Garro. The Tau have NO dissentors within their borders that are Tau, only non-tau give voice to opposition.

The Tau are completely bound to the Etherials when they are around. Farsight rebelled almost instantly when his Etherials were killed. Pheremones are a very effective form of control, see ant or termite colonies.

Pheremones are a very effective form of control, see ant or termite colonies.

See also, hot chick in gamming store.

Wrong. Never state that there is only one female tau in fluff and talk about another female tau in the next of your posts. Apart from Xenology, the novel "Fire Warrior" features many female tau, water caste and fire caste. Then there is Shadowsun's sister, although I have not checked if that is only fan fiction.

Kroothawk... I was refering to an earlier post where someone was saying that the fluff and whatnot didn't matter. I was saying, though poorly, that if that were the case the only evidence a player would have of female Tau would be the Shadowsun figure. I'm sorry I confused you and thus sent you off on a rant.

All pheromones do is give you a general feeling. A pheromone is just an airborne hormone.

When you haven't eaten for a while, your body generates hormones that make you feel hungry.

At that point, the hormones aren't compelling you to eat a bowl of soupe a l'oignion, followed by steak tartar and pommes frite washed down with vin rouge, a salade verte, Maroilles cheese, and a creme brulee with a half bot of Montbazillac, BUT, if someone proposed such a menu you would be more likely to accept than if you weren't hungry.

4oursword wrote:
Steals for signature!

I feel special on the inside. (Boobs still feel better on the outside though.)

All this argument over one or the other: How about its a combination of all of the above. Nature and Nurture combined. At least, that seems like the most plausible and reasonable explanation to me. Extreme charisma combined with the ability to influence through other "natural" (whether created by the Eldar conspiracy theories aside) causes like pheromones. I understand the desire for one answer to be right, its awesome when one answer is right, but motivations and desires to accomplish goals on a societal scale aren't driven by one thing or the other, they are generally driven by everything, just differing amounts of said everything depending on where you measure.

Grey Templar wrote:

Have you read HH novels, how normal humans react to the presence of Primarchs? Same reaction as Tau react to ethereals.

The Tau are completely bound to the Etherials when they are around. Farsight rebelled almost instantly when his Etherials were killed. Pheremones are a very effective form of control, see ant or termite colonies.

No, he found the Dawn Blade. His abandoning the Empire is not as simple as his Ethereal was killed, there are other mysterious circumstances to it.

Farsight is a tricky old fart to nail down as far as motivations are concerned. I'm not a fan of the whole grimdark "Chaos possession" theory, but rather think that he just sees a different path apart from the dogmatic view of the Tau'va of the Ethereals. I like to think of Farsight as the Tau's Martin Luther.

Well it's important to note that not only did Farsight break free of the Tau Empire, but all of his followers too. It wasn't just Farsight that abandoned the Greater Good, but thousands of other Tau. It's possible that the Dawn Blade possessed him, but you still have to explain what happened to the rest of those who followed him.