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King Pariah wrote:You know some of GW has something against Marines fighting in a more reasonable/badass manner (Ex. Raptors, Exorcists, Raven Guard, Salamanders - Reasonable, BT, Carchadons, Space Wolves, Minotaurs - Badass) by those few Ultramarines worshipping writers who just HAVE to cap on every Chapter that isn't a Codex Chapter

You do realise that your list includes the chapter with Warhammer 40,000's most competitive codex, as well as the chapter of the most competitive Codex: Space Marine build, yes?

English Assassin wrote:

King Pariah wrote:You know some of GW has something against Marines fighting in a more reasonable/badass manner (Ex. Raptors, Exorcists, Raven Guard, Salamanders - Reasonable, BT, Carchadons, Space Wolves, Minotaurs - Badass) by those few Ultramarines worshipping writers who just HAVE to cap on every Chapter that isn't a Codex Chapter

You do realise that your list includes the chapter with Warhammer 40,000's most competitive codex, as well as the chapter of the most competitive Codex: Space Marine build, yes?

May have gotten it mixed up with another but I'm pretty sure fluff-wise the salamanders have a tendency to get capped on.

TheAngrySquig wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

The Crusader wrote:What does a "Barghesi" look like?

Back on topic, I'd do all Codex adherrant SM as a single book and then all the ones who told Guilliman to feth off and wiped their s with his foolish Codex as different books. Then all the other books are left as they are. Templars are far too different to be included with UM, for example.

Wiped their asses with the greatest collection of military wisdom ever and decided to fight like Doritos instead? it amuses me how many people consider being Codex chapters a bad thing. Must be Graham McNeill's terrible Ultramarines novels. Originally, being. "Codex Chapter" was supposed to be what made the Ultramarines the "greatest of all Space Marine chapters". It wasn't supposed to be a limiting factor. Just because the Black Templars and Space Wolves suffer too many casualties from their inferior combat strategies and cannot maintain Codex suggested formations because they have too many recruits and not enough Battle Brothers doesn't mean the Codex is bad.

Besides, the Blood Angels are a Codex Chapter. Their fans would be pretty sad if they lost their codex.

How to really tell when someones jealous that the BT could crump the Ultramarines 101

the Black Templars could defeat the Ultramarines? LOL.

You know how you can tell when someone is a Black Templar fanboy?

They forget that the Ultramarines control an entire group of planets, and have hundreds of regiments of Guard quality PDF and the Naval fleet to move and support them. The Templars may flaunt the rules about Marines and have 6000 or so marginal quality, mass produced Marines who get incomplete training. But the Ultramarines have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of regular toops to back them up, plus a regular Navy fleet to back up their own Chapter fleet.

Of course, this is before the Black Templars run screaming forward with no artillery or devastator support and are decimated by the heavy weapons and long range support weapons of the Ultramarines. Because the Black Templars lack any kind of medium to long range response, and will be unable to achieve dominance of the skies or other forms of airborne insertion, they are stuck slogging forward under withering fire and die bravely, but ignominously.

I'm not an Ultramarines fan any more so than any other Chapter, but you're definitely blinded by your confirmation bias, haha. But we knew that the second you started crapping all over the Codex when you obviously don't even know what the Codex is about. The chapters that rejected the Codex just didn't like the organizational part of it and refused to reduce their numbers from Legion strength. But that's only a small part of the Codex. Aside from sections on recruitment and training, the rest of it is a huge treatise on warfare. Sometimes you guys make it too easy to make fun of you, and then your only defense is to try and crap on the Ultramarines some more. Honestly, being an Ultramarines hater seems to be the most basic neckbeard tag. It's all rather funny.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

The Crusader wrote:What does a "Barghesi" look like?

Back on topic, I'd do all Codex adherrant SM as a single book and then all the ones who told Guilliman to feth off and wiped their s with his foolish Codex as different books. Then all the other books are left as they are. Templars are far too different to be included with UM, for example.

Wiped their asses with the greatest collection of military wisdom ever and decided to fight like Doritos instead? it amuses me how many people consider being Codex chapters a bad thing. Must be Graham McNeill's terrible Ultramarines novels. Originally, being. "Codex Chapter" was supposed to be what made the Ultramarines the "greatest of all Space Marine chapters". It wasn't supposed to be a limiting factor. Just because the Black Templars and Space Wolves suffer too many casualties from their inferior combat strategies and cannot maintain Codex suggested formations because they have too many recruits and not enough Battle Brothers doesn't mean the Codex is bad.

Besides, the Blood Angels are a Codex Chapter. Their fans would be pretty sad if they lost their codex.

How to really tell when someones jealous that the BT could crump the Ultramarines 101

the Black Templars could defeat the Ultramarines? LOL.

You know how you can tell when someone is a Black Templar fanboy?

They forget that the Ultramarines control an entire group of planets, and have hundreds of regiments of Guard quality PDF and the Naval fleet to move and support them. The Templars may flaunt the rules about Marines and have 6000 or so marginal quality, mass produced Marines who get incomplete training. But the Ultramarines have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of regular toops to back them up, plus a regular Navy fleet to back up their own Chapter fleet.

Of course, this is before the Black Templars run screaming forward with no artillery or devastator support and are decimated by the heavy weapons and long range support weapons of the Ultramarines. Because the Black Templars lack any kind of medium to long range response, and will be unable to achieve dominance of the skies or other forms of airborne insertion, they are stuck slogging forward under withering fire and die bravely, but ignominously.

I'm not an Ultramarines fan any more so than any other Chapter, but you're definitely blinded by your confirmation bias, haha. But we knew that the second you started crapping all over the Codex when you obviously don't even know what the Codex is about. The chapters that rejected the Codex just didn't like the organizational part of it and refused to reduce their numbers from Legion strength. But that's only a small part of the Codex. Aside from sections on recruitment and training, the rest of it is a huge treatise on warfare. Sometimes you guys make it too easy to make fun of you, and then your only defense is to try and crap on the Ultramarines some more. Honestly, being an Ultramarines hater seems to be the most basic neckbeard tag. It's all rather funny.

Yeah Ultramarines have zero physical control over the guard forces from Ultramar, they may have influence, but they can't actually order them around. Even if they could, they still aren't Ultramarines, and even if the Ultramarines are as good as you make them out to be the Templars would smash them if only through numbers (although they are also better in hand to hand, which helps with marines).

Also, while the Codex Astartes is a good idea the enforced organizational system is terrible, beyond limiting chapters significantly in overall strength it is just a crappy system. So rather than having your forces mixed together you place all your veterans in once company, all of your new recruits in another company, and you have four other companies that are almost all one kind of marine (reserve companies)? At least the IG regiments work as the greater part of a whole, while marines send off individual companies to do their own things with some exceptions (Templars have crusades, Minotaurs frequently fight with their entire chapter (which is probably overkill most of the time but meh), and that chapter that is like the reasonable marines and sends out individual teams or whatever). You rarely hear about the sixth, eighth, and ninth companies working together so much as you do the first, or second company soloing it.

If we're getting a new race a 40k version of a Fantasy army might be nice. Skaven or Lizardmen for example. If not I like the bears idea.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
You know how you can tell when someone is a Black Templar fanboy?

They forget that the Ultramarines control an entire group of planets, and have hundreds of regiments of Guard quality PDF and the Naval fleet to move and support them. The Templars may flaunt the rules about Marines and have 6000 or so marginal quality, mass produced Marines who get incomplete training. But the Ultramarines have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of regular toops to back them up, plus a regular Navy fleet to back up their own Chapter fleet.

I'm not an Ultramarines fan any more so than any other Chapter, but you're definitely blinded by your confirmation bias, haha. But we knew that the second you started crapping all over the Codex when you obviously don't even know what the Codex is about. The chapters that rejected the Codex just didn't like the organizational part of it and refused to reduce their numbers from Legion strength. But that's only a small part of the Codex. Aside from sections on recruitment and training, the rest of it is a huge treatise on warfare. Sometimes you guys make it too easy to make fun of you, and then your only defense is to try and crap on the Ultramarines some more. Honestly, being an Ultramarines hater seems to be the most basic neckbeard tag. It's all rather funny.

Black Templars fanboy to the rescue:?Why do all the guardsmen matter at all? All the Templars need is superiority in space which, given their speciality and fleet size, doesn't seem too unlikely to achieve.

As for the "incomplete" training, source on that please. Countrary to popular perception, Black Templars don't just run up to the enemy and smash them; C:BT (page 9) lists Drop Pod Assaults and Armoured Spearheads as the Black Templars preferred forms of engagement. If you refer to the way the Templars train their neophytes, "different" is not a synonym of "inferior".

Buttons wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

The Crusader wrote:What does a "Barghesi" look like?

Back on topic, I'd do all Codex adherrant SM as a single book and then all the ones who told Guilliman to feth off and wiped their s with his foolish Codex as different books. Then all the other books are left as they are. Templars are far too different to be included with UM, for example.

Wiped their asses with the greatest collection of military wisdom ever and decided to fight like Doritos instead? it amuses me how many people consider being Codex chapters a bad thing. Must be Graham McNeill's terrible Ultramarines novels. Originally, being. "Codex Chapter" was supposed to be what made the Ultramarines the "greatest of all Space Marine chapters". It wasn't supposed to be a limiting factor. Just because the Black Templars and Space Wolves suffer too many casualties from their inferior combat strategies and cannot maintain Codex suggested formations because they have too many recruits and not enough Battle Brothers doesn't mean the Codex is bad.

Besides, the Blood Angels are a Codex Chapter. Their fans would be pretty sad if they lost their codex.

How to really tell when someones jealous that the BT could crump the Ultramarines 101

the Black Templars could defeat the Ultramarines? LOL.

You know how you can tell when someone is a Black Templar fanboy?

They forget that the Ultramarines control an entire group of planets, and have hundreds of regiments of Guard quality PDF and the Naval fleet to move and support them. The Templars may flaunt the rules about Marines and have 6000 or so marginal quality, mass produced Marines who get incomplete training. But the Ultramarines have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of regular toops to back them up, plus a regular Navy fleet to back up their own Chapter fleet.

Of course, this is before the Black Templars run screaming forward with no artillery or devastator support and are decimated by the heavy weapons and long range support weapons of the Ultramarines. Because the Black Templars lack any kind of medium to long range response, and will be unable to achieve dominance of the skies or other forms of airborne insertion, they are stuck slogging forward under withering fire and die bravely, but ignominously.

I'm not an Ultramarines fan any more so than any other Chapter, but you're definitely blinded by your confirmation bias, haha. But we knew that the second you started crapping all over the Codex when you obviously don't even know what the Codex is about. The chapters that rejected the Codex just didn't like the organizational part of it and refused to reduce their numbers from Legion strength. But that's only a small part of the Codex. Aside from sections on recruitment and training, the rest of it is a huge treatise on warfare. Sometimes you guys make it too easy to make fun of you, and then your only defense is to try and crap on the Ultramarines some more. Honestly, being an Ultramarines hater seems to be the most basic neckbeard tag. It's all rather funny.

Yeah Ultramarines have zero physical control over the guard forces from Ultramar, they may have influence, but they can't actually order them around. Even if they could, they still aren't Ultramarines, and even if the Ultramarines are as good as you make them out to be the Templars would smash them if only through numbers (although they are also better in hand to hand, which helps with marines).

Im pretty sure that is untrue. I thought that SM chapters and the inquisition can command guard and pdf elements to do what they want. and if a guard unit or pdf that was under the contro/influence had to choose between helping ultras or BT, i dont think it would be much of an issue.

dajobe wrote:

Buttons wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

The Crusader wrote:What does a "Barghesi" look like?

Back on topic, I'd do all Codex adherrant SM as a single book and then all the ones who told Guilliman to feth off and wiped their s with his foolish Codex as different books. Then all the other books are left as they are. Templars are far too different to be included with UM, for example.

Wiped their asses with the greatest collection of military wisdom ever and decided to fight like Doritos instead? it amuses me how many people consider being Codex chapters a bad thing. Must be Graham McNeill's terrible Ultramarines novels. Originally, being. "Codex Chapter" was supposed to be what made the Ultramarines the "greatest of all Space Marine chapters". It wasn't supposed to be a limiting factor. Just because the Black Templars and Space Wolves suffer too many casualties from their inferior combat strategies and cannot maintain Codex suggested formations because they have too many recruits and not enough Battle Brothers doesn't mean the Codex is bad.

Besides, the Blood Angels are a Codex Chapter. Their fans would be pretty sad if they lost their codex.

How to really tell when someones jealous that the BT could crump the Ultramarines 101

the Black Templars could defeat the Ultramarines? LOL.

You know how you can tell when someone is a Black Templar fanboy?

They forget that the Ultramarines control an entire group of planets, and have hundreds of regiments of Guard quality PDF and the Naval fleet to move and support them. The Templars may flaunt the rules about Marines and have 6000 or so marginal quality, mass produced Marines who get incomplete training. But the Ultramarines have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of regular toops to back them up, plus a regular Navy fleet to back up their own Chapter fleet.

Of course, this is before the Black Templars run screaming forward with no artillery or devastator support and are decimated by the heavy weapons and long range support weapons of the Ultramarines. Because the Black Templars lack any kind of medium to long range response, and will be unable to achieve dominance of the skies or other forms of airborne insertion, they are stuck slogging forward under withering fire and die bravely, but ignominously.

I'm not an Ultramarines fan any more so than any other Chapter, but you're definitely blinded by your confirmation bias, haha. But we knew that the second you started crapping all over the Codex when you obviously don't even know what the Codex is about. The chapters that rejected the Codex just didn't like the organizational part of it and refused to reduce their numbers from Legion strength. But that's only a small part of the Codex. Aside from sections on recruitment and training, the rest of it is a huge treatise on warfare. Sometimes you guys make it too easy to make fun of you, and then your only defense is to try and crap on the Ultramarines some more. Honestly, being an Ultramarines hater seems to be the most basic neckbeard tag. It's all rather funny.

Yeah Ultramarines have zero physical control over the guard forces from Ultramar, they may have influence, but they can't actually order them around. Even if they could, they still aren't Ultramarines, and even if the Ultramarines are as good as you make them out to be the Templars would smash them if only through numbers (although they are also better in hand to hand, which helps with marines).

Im pretty sure that is untrue. I thought that SM chapters and the inquisition can command guard and pdf elements to do what they want. and if a guard unit or pdf that was under the contro/influence had to choose between helping ultras or BT, i dont think it would be much of an issue.

Inquisition can do whatever the hell they want, astartes are significantly more controlled. Either way, the supporting PDF and guard aren't ultramarines. If the battle was the Templars vs. Ultramar than I would bet on Ultramar, but against a single chapter, the Templars have a massive numerical advantage.

No. The Big I can but marines rely on IG handing there command over to them due to their experience.

Not only that, it's patently wrong. The Ultramar PDF is under the direct control of the Ultramarines. They are not Imperial Guard, they are just Guard quality. They are PDF under direct control of the rulers of the planet. Who, well, happen to be the Ultramarines.

Like I said, Black Templars fans quite often get too big for their britches, so to speak. There is a reason the Ultramarines are "the greatest of all Space Marine chapters" and influence an entire segmentum. It doesn't make the Black Templars suck when we say the Ultramarines are better than them. The Ultramarines are just that powerful. I understand that people who don't know anything about warfare just do the simple math of 6000 > 1000 but it simply doesn't tell the whole story in this case. The Black Templars make for an good back story and an entertaining story hook, but their strength is vastly overstated, especially in a conflict between Space Marine chapters.

Speaking of off topic... take the hate to tells....

Once again fix broken codexs and then add Renegades Codex.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Not only that, it's patently wrong. The Ultramar PDF is under the direct control of the Ultramarines. They are not Imperial Guard, they are just Guard quality. They are PDF under direct control of the rulers of the planet. Who, well, happen to be the Ultramarines.

Like I said, Black Templars fans quite often get too big for their britches, so to speak. There is a reason the Ultramarines are "the greatest of all Space Marine chapters" and influence an entire segmentum. It doesn't make the Black Templars suck when we say the Ultramarines are better than them. The Ultramarines are just that powerful. I understand that people who don't know anything about warfare just do the simple math of 6000 > 1000 but it simply doesn't tell the whole story in this case. The Black Templars make for an good back story and an entertaining story hook, but their strength is vastly overstated, especially in a conflict between Space Marine chapters.

It doesn't matter whether the UM can control the PDFs, because they aren't Ultramarines. Now, I am not discounting the Ultramarines, but a single Ultramarines is not the equal of six Templars, and in a fight that is just UM vs. BTs the BTs will win.

Except that this particular event of Fisty-cuffs was never even implied to occur on Ultramar. The Ultramarines would be killed by the Templars in a straight up fleet-to-fleet battle and on the ground. With the PDF, I'll admit defeat.

Back On topic, What does a Barghesi look like?

Swamp thing meets 70's aliens. But they're a typical "WHOA IT"S AN ALIEN oh but it's humanoid" race. I think that a plant race (as a few others have mentioned) would be interesting but strange to say the least. Especially if it has no current fluff. At least it'd attract the hippy crowd somewhat?

The Crusader wrote:Except that this particular event of Fisty-cuffs was never even implied to occur on Ultramar. The Ultramarines would be killed by the Templars in a straight up fleet-to-fleet battle and on the ground. With the PDF, I'll admit defeat.

Back On topic, What does a Barghesi look like?

If you've ever seen the Yahg from Mass Effect, I would imagine something like that. Or http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=155910.0

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Not only that, it's patently wrong. The Ultramar PDF is under the direct control of the Ultramarines. They are not Imperial Guard, they are just Guard quality. They are PDF under direct control of the rulers of the planet. Who, well, happen to be the Ultramarines.

Like I said, Black Templars fans quite often get too big for their britches, so to speak. There is a reason the Ultramarines are "the greatest of all Space Marine chapters" and influence an entire segmentum. It doesn't make the Black Templars suck when we say the Ultramarines are better than them. The Ultramarines are just that powerful. I understand that people who don't know anything about warfare just do the simple math of 6000 > 1000 but it simply doesn't tell the whole story in this case. The Black Templars make for an good back story and an entertaining story hook, but their strength is vastly overstated, especially in a conflict between Space Marine chapters.

The Black Templars is the strongest force in the Imperium when all gathered in one place. This is a cannonical fact.

Now, now, back on topic.

insaniak wrote:Rather than a single, stand-alone codex, I'd like to see a 'Codex: Xenos' ... Something akin to the Eye of Terror or Armageddon codexes, with a bunch of mini-lists for various different alien races. They don't have to be particularly comprehensive... just a small fluff blurb describing each race and its goals, and a list with half a dozen units ala the original Necron release.

Allows a whole bunch of variety into the game for campaigns and scenario games and, and would give GW the chance to see what will float out there in gaming land before committing to a full release, as they did with Necrons.

This! I want to see the Hrud and Tallarn dog soldiers.

And Ad Mech is really the only major faction in the fluff that isn't represented even though that have a huge and varied militant force.

Melcavuk wrote:Codex Renegades: Cultists, Mutants, Mercenaries, Pirates, Rogue AI etc. A nice mix codex that can be used to represent anything from machine cult to genestealer cult to pirate warband.

Codex Xenos: A list of combinations of a variety of subxenos with generic stats that could be used to represent dozens of different species, with some cool unique tech and useful special abilities.

There were some rules in WD a while back which allowed a player to design his or her own Xenos, both Creatures and Fauna.

*Finds folder* By John Shaffer and Ty Finocchiaro, it was copyrighted in 2004.

Genestealer cults wouldn't be to bad of an idea. At least Tyranids would get an allied force.

I also put in votes for Squats and Angry Marines

Some of the lesser known Marine codexes might be nice.

Or the Hrud. They get a good mention in 3rd, small mention in 4th, then they don't really get heard of again. Bring out Codex: Hrud

Necronboy wrote:Genestealer cults wouldn't be to bad of an idea. At least Tyranids would get an allied force.

Even if it doesn't warrant a full codex FW or something should make an army list. They already made a Drop Troop, IG Renegade, and Siege Regiment army list.

Hrud or exodites, both look awesome, failing that, it would be nice to update what we already have or redo LatD

I'd like to see the return of the Squat!

People have been talking alot about which races appeared in which edition, but which ones disappeared in which edition?

I know that the Squat disappeared, but what else?

what about an army of cyborgs and mutants created by a man with a burning pasion to conqure the imperium, be crowend the new emperor and lead humanaty into a golden age (or total enialation) and continue the great crusads his way. And mabye the ratlings and Orgns are just some of his erly work the Imperial Gaurd have explotied. with the new allies rule the Ratlings and Orgns could fight on the side of both there foster perents (IG) or there creator

TheAngrySquig wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Not only that, it's patently wrong. The Ultramar PDF is under the direct control of the Ultramarines. They are not Imperial Guard, they are just Guard quality. They are PDF under direct control of the rulers of the planet. Who, well, happen to be the Ultramarines.

Like I said, Black Templars fans quite often get too big for their britches, so to speak. There is a reason the Ultramarines are "the greatest of all Space Marine chapters" and influence an entire segmentum. It doesn't make the Black Templars suck when we say the Ultramarines are better than them. The Ultramarines are just that powerful. I understand that people who don't know anything about warfare just do the simple math of 6000 > 1000 but it simply doesn't tell the whole story in this case. The Black Templars make for an good back story and an entertaining story hook, but their strength is vastly overstated, especially in a conflict between Space Marine chapters.

The Black Templars is the strongest force in the Imperium when all gathered in one place. This is a cannonical fact.

No, no it is't.

You mean to say that 6 to 10,000 Space Marines is more powerful than the whole Imperial Guard and Navy gathered together? LOL.

Again, too big for britches. Like I said.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azeroth wrote:I'd like to see the return of the Squat!

People have been talking alot about which races appeared in which edition, but which ones disappeared in which edition?

I know that the Squat disappeared, but what else?

Some other minor ones. Zoats, Slaan/Slann, Beastmen. Most everything that disappeared disappeared between Rogue Trader and 2E when they re-imagined the fluff and consolidated all of the ideas.

Dude, you could be just a little less patronising when you reply. I agree with what you're saying completely.

Certainly, we're one of the most powerful Marine chapters. Also contrary to what you keep on saying, we use some of the tactics as most other Chapters such as Armoured Spearheads and Drop pod assaults. Just because we don't assassinate the enemy leader doesn't necessarily mean that we automatically are inferior tacticians. We are the Line-breakers of the Marine Chapters. Just because we can field much larger squads than you that doesn't mean that we act like like Commander Chenkov. All that means is that we do Infantry assaults better. And that we have a much larger fleet than most chapters.

I think Rogue Trader would be fun. I'm dangerously close to putting together a GK Inquisitor list that counts-as this anyway.

What I would hypothetically want:

Update everything to 6th Ed.

Genestealer Cults
Chaos Imperial Guard/Chaos Cults/LatD
Demiurg
Space Skaven in some form.

Another interesting option would be the reintroduction of the Slann.