Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:Gonna parrot the majority here and say LatD and AdMech, but only after all the old stuff gets updated. Drop some SM chapters to make room in the schedule.

Drop Daemons/Tau/Sisters of Battle to make room in the schedule. Less players becoming pissed off and it doesn't cut into the profit from the Space Marines.






Not that I believe in dropping any Codex, but I'm always amused when someone wants to drop a Space Marine Codex to make room for his/her preferred faction.

I'm always amused by the Space Marine players who think that loyalists need more than one Codex.

If they drop an army it oughta be Dark Angels or Black Templars. T hen we would have less space marines.

A Xenos Mercenary Codex would be tight. You could either run a merc army or fill a few FOC slots with em. I think it would have the potential to be the highest selling codex.

acekevin8412 wrote:In MY perfect world the codexes would be structured like this:

Space Marines
Imperial Guard
Inquisition with the ability to field Sisters or Guard as troops and Marines/Deathwatch or Grey Knights as elites, with stats in the book.
Eldar
Dark Eldar
Orks
Chaos
Necrons

Then the books would have supplement books, ie more money for GW, that flesh out niche armies in a fashion similar to the Angels of Death, Craftworld: Eldar and Codex: Catachans books were.

Examples include:
Marines of Every Flavour, Guard Regiments of Various Tastes, Legion lore for Chaos lovers, Ork Klan books. Maybe even one for each of the specific Ordos.

Failing, that, I wish FW would do more standalone armylist variants.

DemetriDominov wrote:Armies I'd like to see changed in 6e:

Order:

1. The Inquisition becomes represented by 3 codex's, Xenos (Deathwatch), Malleus (GK's), and Hereticus (Sob's).

2. IG: I'd like to see what happened with SM's happen with the IG, where it's one thing to be in the IG, it's another thing entirely to be in the DKOK, Cadian, or Valhallan armies because they get different mechanic bonuses (DKOK = Static Defense, Cadia = Faster more mobile armies, Valhalla = Swarms of cheap infantry and stratagems revolving around massed artillery barrages.), but can always refer to the standard IG codex.

3. Eldar are split into exodites and craftworld codex's.

4. The addition of the Ad Mechs stand-alone codex.

Destruction:

1. The addition of Traitor Guard. It's been far too long that they have been represented in the lore, but only partially represented in the game.

2. Chaos Space Marines need to be A. Divided into 4 much more distinct followings, and should really be fit into a codex about the size of the current SM codex. (So each God should have more options to choose from.) B. Chaos undivided should remain a strong contender by continuing to play off of all 4 God's strengths.

I also think that's about all the tampering GW can handle with their IP atm, adding completely new races (Like Rogue Traders - which would be an awesome race imho) would negate the long overdue changes and additions GW has been backlogged with because everyone would be trying to play a brand new race over the updated ones. Like myself, they probably won't be able to pick and choose to play more than one at a time either, because of how much a new army is probably going to cost in the new edition as well. This is why I'd like to see some division of most of the armies we already own over ones that have entirely different models.

No Tyranids!? in all of that!? lol Without races like Tyranids and tau all you have is humans in two flavors... O ya and orks, and necrons which are pretty much dead humans in space.

LoneLictor wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:Gonna parrot the majority here and say LatD and AdMech, but only after all the old stuff gets updated. Drop some SM chapters to make room in the schedule.

Drop Daemons/Tau/Sisters of Battle to make room in the schedule. Less players becoming pissed off and it doesn't cut into the profit from the Space Marines.






Not that I believe in dropping any Codex, but I'm always amused when someone wants to drop a Space Marine Codex to make room for his/her preferred faction.

I'm always amused by the Space Marine players who think that loyalists need more than one Codex.

We do because the Space Marine sales essentially carry the hobby. Any cuts in profitability hits Xenos as well. Furthermore, a Space Marine Codex arguably takes less time to update, as some parts can be copypasted. This means that the schedule might not uncluttered just because a Marine Codex is removed.

Lastly, why is the removal of the Squats considered such a traumatic event, while the removal of a Space Marine Codex is completely OK? The splitting of Chaos into two is also a oft-maligned development, as it left people with half armies, and yet having the same thing happen to a Space Marine Codex is completely fine because bacon tastes nice or something. It's simply a double standard that I have never understood.

Kiryu Mk 3 wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:The Deathwatch don't need a codex, you can already make a solid Deathwatch list with Sternguard. They use almost the exact same rules. I'd be down for Ad Mech or a return of Lost and the Damned or Genestealer Cults.

I disagree with this. The basic story of the Deathwatch is known yes but, that's it. More over, rules wise it isn't easy to try and stern guard. Also, the Deathwatch coming from different chapters means that their rules should be varried based on every member hails from a differ doctorine. Also, as to what sort of organization and equipment they use. I really want to see them in 6th edition. Their history, how long a member serves with Ordos, and the rules that they should follow. The only rules that can be found come form an article in chapter approved back in 4th edition. Also, the tau came out towards the tail end of 3rd edition.

How does one stern guard? Are you saying it isn't easy to put Sternguard in a list? It's very easy to put them in a list. Take Pedro as your HQ (Deathwatch Captain) and use some Scouts as Inquisitorial Stormtrooper stand-ins. If every man in the squad had different rules that would be a goddamn nightmare to keep track of. Do a counts-as with Wolf Guard in a Logan's Heroes list I guess. Their organization is ad-hoc veteran squads with specialized ammunition. Vets with specialized ammunition? Where have I heard that before? Finally, what the hell do Tau have to do with any of this? Tau are lovely, but not Deathwatch Marines.

I'd be happy to see Deathwatch fluff expanded, but there's really no reason for them to get their own codex whatsoever.

The Deathwatch don't engage in full scale battles and as such don't deserve a Codex. They operate in squad based kill teams that operate like proper special forces.

They go in, meet their objective, and get out. They don't fight proper battles except as allies to the IG or other Imperial forces.


And don't bring up GKs. they do operate in full scale battles against the enemy. No different to normal space marines.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
why is the removal of the Squats considered such a traumatic event, while the removal of a Space Marine Codex is completely OK?

Seriously? Well, how many Squat codexes are left now? And how many Marine codexes would be left if one disappeared?

dæl wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
why is the removal of the Squats considered such a traumatic event, while the removal of a Space Marine Codex is completely OK?

Seriously? Well, how many Squat codexes are left now? And how many Marine codexes would be left if one disappeared?

The entire point is that you could still use your Squat miniatures as Imperial Guard, just as everyone claims you can simply switch SM Codex without having to buy or change anything. For another similar example, look at the amount of people that got upset because Pariahs were removed from Necrons, forcing them to use their minis as something else. The thing I'm arguing against is that this is somehow OK for Space Marine Chapters, but not for anyone else. It's a ridiculous double standard in my opinion.

I swear in Demiurg/Squat

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

dæl wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
why is the removal of the Squats considered such a traumatic event, while the removal of a Space Marine Codex is completely OK?

Seriously? Well, how many Squat codexes are left now? And how many Marine codexes would be left if one disappeared?

The entire point is that you could still use your Squat miniatures as Imperial Guard, just as everyone claims you can simply switch SM Codex without having to buy or change anything. For another similar example, look at the amount of people that got upset because Pariahs were removed from Necrons, forcing them to use their minis as something else. The thing I'm arguing against is that this is somehow OK for Space Marine Chapters, but not for anyone else. It's a ridiculous double standard in my opinion.

That's a pretty weak comparison. The squats don't have the basic core of their rules written down in any other codices, whereas all the loyalist marine chapters do. Most of the armies differences could be summed up by a couple of unique rules and units. Something like the old Index Astartes, with around six pages dedicated to each chapter and a short form of the Vanilla army list at the back, so you don't have to tote around two books. You could cover every loyalist founding chapter that way.

htj wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

dæl wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
why is the removal of the Squats considered such a traumatic event, while the removal of a Space Marine Codex is completely OK?

Seriously? Well, how many Squat codexes are left now? And how many Marine codexes would be left if one disappeared?

The entire point is that you could still use your Squat miniatures as Imperial Guard, just as everyone claims you can simply switch SM Codex without having to buy or change anything. For another similar example, look at the amount of people that got upset because Pariahs were removed from Necrons, forcing them to use their minis as something else. The thing I'm arguing against is that this is somehow OK for Space Marine Chapters, but not for anyone else. It's a ridiculous double standard in my opinion.

That's a pretty weak comparison. The squats don't have the basic core of their rules written down in any other codices, whereas all the loyalist marine chapters do. Most of the armies differences could be summed up by a couple of unique rules and units. Something like the old Index Astartes, with around six pages dedicated to each chapter and a short form of the Vanilla army list at the back, so you don't have to tote around two books. You could cover every loyalist founding chapter that way.

The thing is, though, other than Razorspam lists the different Marine Codices really don't share builds, which means that any Marine player that isn't playing Razorspam and wants to remain competetive if his or her Codex is removed will have to buy loads of new stuff anyway, just like everyone else. Who other than Deathwing runs an army of all-Assault Terminators with heavy weapons (and if you say Loganwing I'll punch you over the internet)? What army other than C:SM runs all-bike lists? Who other than Blood Angels play an all-deep-strike Assault Marine list? Who other than Black Templars play with combined, massive squads of Marines running across the board to punch people in the face?

Regarding the Index Astartes comparison, a lot of people (rightfully, I might add) threw a tantrum when variant lists such as Craftworld Eldar were removed, but people are just fine with the same thing happening to Space Marines.

Finally, I don't consider adding one special character unlocking one unit and giving one Chapter Tactics as "covering" an army. Imperial Guard players aren't pleased with the current way of portraying different armies, Chaos aren't very pleased with their 'dex and Eldar aren't exactly extatic either. I don't see why it'd be a good idea to make some Space Marine players feel the same.

It would be fair because SM are over saturated as is compared to the other armies >_>

About half the codexes are SM based. About 1/3 of the other half are Imperial. That leaves 1/3 of all armies for xeno/chaos. That cuts into their development time and we end up with things like the 10+ wait between Dark Eldar and soon to be Tau codexes.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

dæl wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
why is the removal of the Squats considered such a traumatic event, while the removal of a Space Marine Codex is completely OK?

Seriously? Well, how many Squat codexes are left now? And how many Marine codexes would be left if one disappeared?

The entire point is that you could still use your Squat miniatures as Imperial Guard, just as everyone claims you can simply switch SM Codex without having to buy or change anything. For another similar example, look at the amount of people that got upset because Pariahs were removed from Necrons, forcing them to use their minis as something else. The thing I'm arguing against is that this is somehow OK for Space Marine Chapters, but not for anyone else. It's a ridiculous double standard in my opinion.

Are you seriously suggesting that an entire race is worth exactly the same as a few unique units, most of which are shoehorned in to make things look more different than they actually are. You can't just use the IG codex to represent Squats, anymore than you can represent Tau with Orks. They are different races entirely.

You can use Codex: IGuard to represent Squats. People do it all the time. Sure, a few models like the trikes and Exo-armor have been rendered obsolete, but given the simplification of the rules for movement, there's almost no effective difference between a Squat with a lasgun and a Guardsman with a lasgun. They have the same basic weaponry, armor, and heavy weapons. In Rogue Trader they even had the same exact tanks, with no reason to say that they couldn't have had the same tanks if they had survived, rules-wise, past the Black Book Codex from the 2nd Edition boxed set. Most of the alternate weapon Squats would be serviceable Veterans, Stormtroopers, Sergeants, officers etc.

I love the Squats as much as any other reasonable, rational human being with a soul, however ultimately, rendering the Squats as a themed Imperial Guard force (like the Praetorians, Mordians, Vostroyans etc) was what probably should have been done with them in the transition between Rogue Trader and 2nd Edition.

acekevin8412 wrote:About half the codexes are SM based. About 1/3 of the other half are Imperial. That leaves 1/3 of all armies for xeno/chaos. That cuts into their development time and we end up with things like the 10+ wait between Dark Eldar and soon to be Tau codexes.

And Black Templars. People assume that Space Marine players always jump ship to the latest Codex, but Black Templars don't get an update just because for example Blood Angels do.

Personnally I would like to see the Tanith First and Only return with their own codex. The Gaunts Ghost series is after all the best series ever (personnal preferance) and holds the Black Librarys best seller(fact). They were in 3rd or 4th edition but got taken out.
Again I would also like to see a race that was in an earily edition but were taken out make a come back. What do you think?

@vet sgt. Eldar had lascannons back then, so Squats having the same tanks as IG is a bit of a moot point, and you even mentioned that some of their most units were rendered obsolete. Just because people have to find a codex that best fits Squats doesn't mean that the codex they pick is perfect for building a Squat army, it's not. Its the same with Ad Mech and Exodites, people can represent then sort of with what is out there, but that isn't as good as having an actual codex which explores what that specific army can do and how it would go to war.

I personally don't mind there being different codexes for different chapters, I'd like to see Iron Hands get their own, but I'd rather see the things I mentioned on Page 1 first, namely Ad Mech, Exodites and Squats. But people claiming that getting rid of a marine codex and still leaving many more marine codexes is the same as getting rid of an entire race and leaving people forced to play counts as is absolutely wrong.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:About half the codexes are SM based. About 1/3 of the other half are Imperial. That leaves 1/3 of all armies for xeno/chaos. That cuts into their development time and we end up with things like the 10+ wait between Dark Eldar and soon to be Tau codexes.

And Black Templars. People assume that Space Marine players always jump ship to the latest Codex, but Black Templars don't get an update just because for example Blood Angels do.

Sorry about that. At least the Black Templar were significantly different than C:SM. I really don't see why Dark Angels or Blood Angels were really necessary.

In my opinion, Wolves would have been done better with a book full of special characters/units for all the FoC slots.

Squats were taken out for a reason, because the design has basically hit a brick wall and the fact that the concept couldn't work in the setting. So please stop trying to get them re-introduced.

Codex: Legion of the Damned, Codex: Salamanders, Codex: Barghesi (spelt right?)

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Squats were taken out for a reason, because the design has basically hit a brick wall and the fact that the concept couldn't work in the setting. So please stop trying to get them re-introduced.

So you've come to a thread about what races people would like to see introduced to 6th to say that one of those races is invalid. There's something almost admirable to that, almost. Demiurg seem to work in Battlefleet Gothic just fine, and there was nothing stopping the designers revamping a race, they just did that with necrons.

Codex My Little Pony.

Written by Matthew Ward and Lauren Frost.

dæl wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Squats were taken out for a reason, because the design has basically hit a brick wall and the fact that the concept couldn't work in the setting. So please stop trying to get them re-introduced.

So you've come to a thread about what races people would like to see introduced to 6th to say that one of those races is invalid. There's something almost admirable to that, almost. Demiurg seem to work in Battlefleet Gothic just fine, and there was nothing stopping the designers revamping a race, they just did that with necrons.

Alessio and Jervis said Squats were removed because they became too silly and the design team felt unable to carry it forward.

And Demiurg have 2 ships and are auxiliaries in a fleet list nobody uses and are never used in my experience,

I just gets annoying every month or so there is a thread or people in a thread crying about how they want squats, please take off the rose tinted glasses

Shadowbrand wrote:Codex My Little Pony.

Written by Matthew Ward and Lauren Frost.

"Frost?" You mean Faust?

Sure.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Lastly, why is the removal of the Squats considered such a traumatic event, while the removal of a Space Marine Codex is completely OK?

Because you have four more, five if you include Grey Knights, and six if you include SoB which are like girl marines. I will listen to your plea when IG gets a codex for Catachans, DKoK, Vostroyans, and Tallarn, in addition to the Imperial Guard Codex. Honestly, if you suddenly lost a space marine codex you have to do absolutely nothing except pick up Codex: Space Marine, or one of the other three flavours, you don't even need to repaint them. If IG or Tau or Dark Eldar or Tyranids or Necrons disappear you lose hundreds of dollars worth of models that are nothing but decorations without the rules to play. Also, I personally propose more consolidation, not just marines
Chaos Daemons+Chaos Space Marines+Some Traitor IG=Codex: Chaos (or Eye of Terror or some other fancy name)
Codex Space Marines+Red Space Marines+Black Space Marines+Green Space Marines+Furry Space Marines=Codex: Space Marines (or Adeptus Astartes or Angels of Death or a fancy name)
Sisters of Battle+Grey Knights+Deathwatch+Some IG Infantry and Storm Troopers=Codex: Inquisition (can't think of a fancy name for this)
For a total of six fewer codexes (even then we can keep the more diverse marine codexes as independent codexes rather than combining them all), which should make updating codexes much easier.

Hell now you can even get some more diversity in other armies. Want to mix some Grey Knights, SoB, and some conscripted IG infantry? Do Codex: Inquisition, get some SoB and IG as troops with Grey Knights as elites. Want to field some traitor guard supported by daemons? Choose Codex: Chaos and have some daemons and traitor guard, hell maybe toss in a chaos lord as the leader.

As for marines making up most of the sales, that may be true, but consolidating them won't collapse the company and it won't drive away any more customers than say an Imperial Fist fan not starting the hobby because his army doesn't have its own codex, or a Raven Guard fan not starting the hobby because Raven Guard doesn't get its own army. Also, remember that at one point the Blood Angels and Dark Angels were in one codex.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
Alessio and Jervis said Squats were removed because they became too silly and the design team felt unable to carry it forward.

And Demiurg have 2 ships and are auxiliaries in a fleet list nobody uses and are never used in my experience,

I just gets annoying every month or so there is a thread or people in a thread crying about how they want squats, please take off the rose tinted glasses

Your first point is a fair one, I've seen the thing they wrote about it, but they could reinvent them.

Your second point I wouldn't really know about, never played Battlefleet Gothic.

Your last point is pretty fair as well, except this is a thread about what race people would like to see brought into 6th, so its a perfectly acceptable discussion in these circumstances. As I've said my main issue was the comparison that removing one of many marine codexes is the same as removing the only codex of a whole race.

Midnightdeathblade wrote:Codex: Legion of the Damned, Codex: Salamanders

You mean Lost and the Damned? And why do people ever think Salamanders deserve their own codex, let alone will get one?

Brother SRM wrote:

Midnightdeathblade wrote:Codex: Legion of the Damned, Codex: Salamanders

You mean Lost and the Damned? And why do people ever think Salamanders deserve their own codex, let alone will get one?

I think he means Legion of the Damned. The firey/ghosty/badassy Space Marines. And I have no idea why people would want a Salamanders dex, I can't see what makes them so special besides some cool fluff