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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Bah, you have psychic powers and Abbadon.
Don't chaos have access to biomancy?

Abbadon which requires a vehicular investment that's overpriced and in some meta will explode long before reaching it.

Biomancy isn't taken on sorcerers (too squishy), and DP's are overpriced since they require the black mace, and it's still a crapshoot.

(Now if only we still had Chaos Lords that weren't chapter masters and could become Sorcerer Lords again. )

Abbadon also doesn't really give synergy to the army.

Biomancy isn't worth it on sorcerers and only worth it on DP who can only get a maximum of 2 rolls on biomancy and are only good if costly.

Why did you have to remind me of Sorcerer Lords


Automatically Appended Next Post:

col_impact wrote:
I don't think MSS should be what people are fixating on about the Necron codex.

Does MSS ruin any army's picnic? No.

Do armies have a way of playing around/nullifying the potency of MSS? Yes.

All codexes have awesome deals. What is important is that those awesome deals don't detract from the balance of the game as a whole (compare MSS to Tau's ability to abuse overwatch)


CronAir lists do seem to ruin some army's picnic. Are Aegis Defense Lines enough to keep them in check? I don't think necessarily anything needs to be done in particular to Night Scythes. I think flyers in general should be nerfed a little. They are too survivable by virtue of just being flyers. Helldrakes vs troops should not be as one-sided a match-up as it is.

Actually MSS can ruin an army's picnic. Especially in combination with anti-horde weapons. MSS would work fine if it was limited, problem is you can fill a list with it. You are correct that CronAir being as good as it is.... is a problem. Not really flyers in general though. The only real broken/good flyers are the Heldrake, cronair, and maybe the Vendetta (not sure with the update). The rest are good at best, bad at worst.

 happygolucky wrote:

Obviously if I am playing challenges wrong then feel free to correct me, as I would love to shove a champ into my opponents face and let my Lord get some reaping done before the next round..

Not entirely sure, but if you assault, declare that MSS happens before the challenge and do not have your CC monster in base contact. If the Necron player charge you and challenge, you decide who accepts. That is how I thought it worked at least.

Edit: messed up quotes.

Ratflinger wrote:

 Galorian wrote:



Obviously if I am playing challenges wrong then feel free to correct me, as I would love to shove a champ into my opponents face and let my Lord get some reaping done before the next round..

Not entirely sure, but if you assault, declare that MSS happens before the challenge and do not have your CC monster in base contact. If the Necron player charge you and challenge, you decide who accepts. That is how I thought it worked at least.

It really feels like something that could get into arguments though.

Nemesors, Overlords, and Phaerons lose access to Warscythe but keep MSS

Vargards become a new generic HQ choice which don't have access to MSS but keep the Warscythe

Ratflinger wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:

Obviously if I am playing challenges wrong then feel free to correct me, as I would love to shove a champ into my opponents face and let my Lord get some reaping done before the next round..

Not entirely sure, but if you assault, declare that MSS happens before the challenge and do not have your CC monster in base contact. If the Necron player charge you and challenge, you decide who accepts. That is how I thought it worked at least.

Edit: messed up quotes.

Hmmm what does it say in the codex? does it say immediately after charging take the MSS test?

Getting sidetracked by a YMDC topic, gents.

 happygolucky wrote:
Hmmm what does it say in the codex? does it say immediately after charging take the MSS test?

It's with the same wording as Challenges so the current player can say which goes first. Also, some Necron players tend to forget that MSS affects a RANDOM enemy model in b-2-b. They often claim they can choose to have the sergeant or other special CCW dude attack his own unit.

Yup, MSS could happily go away. It will hurt the Necrons a bit against armies with real CC beatsticks, but quite a few armies have worse "dedicated" CC characters than a loaded Necron Overlord.

 happygolucky wrote:

Ratflinger wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:

Obviously if I am playing challenges wrong then feel free to correct me, as I would love to shove a champ into my opponents face and let my Lord get some reaping done before the next round..

Not entirely sure, but if you assault, declare that MSS happens before the challenge and do not have your CC monster in base contact. If the Necron player charge you and challenge, you decide who accepts. That is how I thought it worked at least.

Edit: messed up quotes.

Hmmm what does it say in the codex? does it say immediately after charging take the MSS test?

It states that it happens after all assault moves have been made but before blows have been struck. Anything in base contact takes the test.

One thing I'd like to see is necron overseers. I've seen them in diagrams of the sautekh dynasty composition where Zahndrekh's royal court is made up of Obyron, 2 overseers and 3 lords. I'm unsure if they're just lords or if they're like a cryptek or something.

King Pariah wrote:Nemesors, Overlords, and Phaerons lose access to Warscythe but keep MSS

Vargards become a new generic HQ choice which don't have access to MSS but keep the Warscythe

Doesn't make sense given the fluff- the Warscythe is the most iconic weapon of Necron lords and overlords and has been wielded by Overlords in fluff sources on several occasions.

happygolucky wrote:

Ratflinger wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:

Obviously if I am playing challenges wrong then feel free to correct me, as I would love to shove a champ into my opponents face and let my Lord get some reaping done before the next round..

Not entirely sure, but if you assault, declare that MSS happens before the challenge and do not have your CC monster in base contact. If the Necron player charge you and challenge, you decide who accepts. That is how I thought it worked at least.

Edit: messed up quotes.

Hmmm what does it say in the codex? does it say immediately after charging take the MSS test?

IIRC it's been FAQ'd that the player who's turn the assault takes place in gets to choose which goes first- challenge or MSS.

My wish list:

Cheaper Praetorians , Lychguard, etc..

Lower cost on the Jetbike unit and bump them to being able to take ten and maybe be able to be equipped with a special weapon.

It would be nice to get Vehicle Squadrons.

Beefing up the Monolith it's just cost ineffective now. Sure it's 14 armour but still dies pretty easily.

Why do people keep saying the monolith sucks? Its an av14 200pt model, that's pretty good alone, the problem isn't the monolith it's the amount of at that people take, people also keep asking for ds immunity, am I the only one that thinks 200pts for av14 ds immunity, living metal, teleport, 4 Gauss guns, str8 large blast should cost 225 at least?

Hollismason wrote:
My wish list:

Cheaper Praetorians , Lychguard, etc..

Lower cost on the Jetbike unit and bump them to being able to take ten and maybe be able to be equipped with a special weapon.

It would be nice to get Vehicle Squadrons.

Beefing up the Monolith it's just cost ineffective now. Sure it's 14 armour but still dies pretty easily.

Just think that in 4th edition, pariahs costed 35 points, had a 3+ save were I3, came with a warscythe that had a built in gauss blaster (which also had rending), caused any unit within 12" to count as ld 7 and any psyker within 6" to take a morale check. They didn't have RP.

Lychguard cost 40 points, have a 3+ save, are I2, have a warscythe and have RP.

Is RP worth +5 points, taking away a gauss blaster and those abilities? Sure, you don't have phase out now, but I'm pretty sure no one was blown away by lychguard when they read their statline and wargear options.

Triarch praetorians are even harder to justify their points and are just impossible to use effectively. 6" str5 ap 2 guns? Unwieldy in combat? You'd probably do better in combat by not using their rod of covenant at all and attacking normally.

4th edition necrons might have been OP and 5th edition necrons are pretty solid in a lot of areas. But when you start to look at their less commonly used units such as praetorians, lychguard, flayed ones, destroyers, C'tan; it's pretty underwhelming.

I hope that if they get an update that they'll not change much at all that makes them a good army right now, but will reinvent some of their units to be more effectively used. I think that triarch preatorians and lychgard should be the necron terminators given that they're fluff-wise the ex personal bodyguards of the triarch council. Making them jump infantry was a step in the right direction, giving them interesting abilities like disperion shields was also interesting. But they should invest time into making them "feel" like an elite unit within the necron empire that reflects their fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:
Why do people keep saying the monolith sucks? Its an av14 200pt model, that's pretty good alone, the problem isn't the monolith it's the amount of at that people take, people also keep asking for ds immunity, am I the only one that thinks 200pts for av14 ds immunity, living metal, teleport, 4 Gauss guns, str8 large blast should cost 225 at least?

I think the problem comes from the fact that it's incredibly easy to lose a monolith to DS and, generally, when you choose to field one as is true for any other necron army, you build your army around supporting or being supported by its abilities.

I have 2 monoliths and when I field it, I like to try and get the most of out it. One of my tactics is to have a gunline of ghost arks and warriors with a monolith. You DS a monolith to the enemy's line and then dimensional corridor a 20man squad of warriors with a lord/overlord supporting it to the front line. You do as much damage as possible and then take the damage from the retaliation.

If the squad survives, the squad is dimensional corridored to the ghost arks, repair barged and then dimensional corridored back to the front line with 4D3(4 -> 12) more warriors than it had at the start of the turn.

Sure, it's a bit cheesy. But it's also kind of reminiscent of the old 4th edition monolith where dimensional corridoring a squad meant you got to reroll reanimation (which were 4+) for that squad.

Ofcourse, it's worthless when the model that's bigger than a bastion scatters 0.1cm into terrain or slightly off the table which means you mishap, delay or your opponent drops it miles away.

sonicaucie wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
My wish list:

Cheaper Praetorians , Lychguard, etc..

Lower cost on the Jetbike unit and bump them to being able to take ten and maybe be able to be equipped with a special weapon.

It would be nice to get Vehicle Squadrons.

Beefing up the Monolith it's just cost ineffective now. Sure it's 14 armour but still dies pretty easily.

Just think that in 4th edition, pariahs costed 35 points, had a 3+ save were I3, came with a warscythe that had a built in gauss blaster (which also had rending), caused any unit within 12" to count as ld 7 and any psyker within 6" to take a morale check. They didn't have RP.

Their gauss blasters didn't have rending. What gave you that idea?
Edit: Ah, I see. The old gauss rule, where a wounding hit of a six immediately causes a wound WITH saves allowed. It was nothing like rending, especially 4th ed rending.

The pariahs were not good units at all. They were expensive, didn't add to Phase Out (making it easier for the Necron player to lose, since he had fewer "necrons" on the table), still had lower initiative against most of the nasty CC units in 4th (Banshees, Space Marines, Genestealers, etc), no invuls (Lychguard could take these at least), slow (Praetorians are faster at least). If you want to actually use that special power that they are paying for, you have to be close to the enemy, and hope you make them all break before they unload everything into the pariahs. Oh, and they only have 1 attack each (Lychguard have more), making their scythes somewhat useless on them.

I love pariahs, but that doesn't change the fact that there were terrible units who didn't add much to the army.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:
Why do people keep saying the monolith sucks? Its an av14 200pt model, that's pretty good alone, the problem isn't the monolith it's the amount of at that people take, people also keep asking for ds immunity, am I the only one that thinks 200pts for av14 ds immunity, living metal, teleport, 4 Gauss guns, str8 large blast should cost 225 at least?

It's a AV14 model with a large base, making the chances of it mishapping fairly high.
You'd also think that a pyramid made of metal slowly descending from the sky wouldn't be blown by a stray grot that just happened to wander on the lith's landing site.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It's a AV14 model with a large base, making the chances of it mishapping fairly high.
You'd also think that a pyramid made of metal slowly descending from the sky wouldn't be blown by a stray grot that just happened to wander on the lith's landing site.

You'd also think that the most advanced race in the setting that also boasts the best teleportation tech around and doesn't rely on the warp for it to work (which is the source of most issues with the teleporters of other races) would have something, anything, in their codex that would reduce or remove scatter on deep striking (and no, the Nemesor-Vargard thing doesn't count).

Hell, in fluff you have entire Necron armies materializing out of thin air in formation in front of their enemies and space stations who's crews were slaughtered by Necron boarding forces that teleported right into their hallways. In gameplay trying to deepstrike a couple of units in close proximity to the enemy in an area of the board that has terrain on it is practically suicidal...

I don't care if they put a prohibitively high price on Necron accurate deepstrike options just so long as they exist.

 Galorian wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It's a AV14 model with a large base, making the chances of it mishapping fairly high.
You'd also think that a pyramid made of metal slowly descending from the sky wouldn't be blown by a stray grot that just happened to wander on the lith's landing site.

You'd also think that the most advanced race in the setting that also boasts the best teleportation tech around and doesn't rely on the warp for it to work (which is the source of most issues with the teleporters of other races) would have something, anything, in their codex that would reduce or remove scatter on deep striking (and no, the Nemesor-Vargard thing doesn't count).

Hell, in fluff you have entire Necron armies materializing out of thin air in formation in front of their enemies and space stations who's crews were slaughtered by Necron boarding forces that teleported right into their hallways. In gameplay trying to deepstrike a couple of units in close proximity to the enemy in an area of the board that has terrain on it is practically suicidal...

I don't care if they put a prohibitively high price on Necron accurate deepstrike options just so long as they exist.

That is true. Humans have accurate teleporters, and their teleportation tech isn't any near as advanced.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Galorian wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It's a AV14 model with a large base, making the chances of it mishapping fairly high.
You'd also think that a pyramid made of metal slowly descending from the sky wouldn't be blown by a stray grot that just happened to wander on the lith's landing site.

You'd also think that the most advanced race in the setting that also boasts the best teleportation tech around and doesn't rely on the warp for it to work (which is the source of most issues with the teleporters of other races) would have something, anything, in their codex that would reduce or remove scatter on deep striking (and no, the Nemesor-Vargard thing doesn't count).

Hell, in fluff you have entire Necron armies materializing out of thin air in formation in front of their enemies and space stations who's crews were slaughtered by Necron boarding forces that teleported right into their hallways. In gameplay trying to deepstrike a couple of units in close proximity to the enemy in an area of the board that has terrain on it is practically suicidal...

I don't care if they put a prohibitively high price on Necron accurate deepstrike options just so long as they exist.

That is true. Humans have accurate teleporters, and their teleportation tech isn't any near as advanced.

Funnily enough ORK technology is far more advanced in Teleportation tech then humanity as noted by many tech priests, if only because they are able to use it far better in different methods. Even Necrons can't lift vehicles with it and use it to slam it through things, or fire creatures through the warp and into things armor and bodies.

Heck, Thraka showed a good use of it back in Armageddon, surprising everyone as his armies teleported in with giant Telly-porta pads.

Necrons probably can, actually. One of their recurring themes is that we still haven't seen the full extent of their arsenal. For all we know, they can teleport moons.

Besides, why would they lift objects with teleportation? They can just disintegrate it into molecules.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Necrons probably can, actually. One of their recurring themes is that we still haven't seen the full extent of their arsenal. For all we know, they can teleport moons.

Besides, why would they lift objects with teleportation? They can just disintegrate it into molecules.

Replicating Telekinesis would be a matter of messing with gravity and electromagnetism.

Fething magnets, how do they work?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Funnily enough ORK technology is far more advanced in Teleportation tech then humanity as noted by many tech priests, if only because they are able to use it far better in different methods. Even Necrons can't lift vehicles with it and use it to slam it through things, or fire creatures through the warp and into things armor and bodies.

Heck, Thraka showed a good use of it back in Armageddon, surprising everyone as his armies teleported in with giant Telly-porta pads.

The Necrons have snipers that shoot you from hyperspace, Every last single Necron warrior starship, or combat vehicle has a built in personal teleporter that can beam them back to the nearest tombworld on a moment's notice and their most basic guns disassemble their victim on an atomic level, sucks the resulting particles into the barrel and then teleports them somewhere (IIRC it was originally designed to send the remain off to be fed on by the C'tan).

I think they take it...

 Galorian wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Funnily enough ORK technology is far more advanced in Teleportation tech then humanity as noted by many tech priests, if only because they are able to use it far better in different methods. Even Necrons can't lift vehicles with it and use it to slam it through things, or fire creatures through the warp and into things armor and bodies.

Heck, Thraka showed a good use of it back in Armageddon, surprising everyone as his armies teleported in with giant Telly-porta pads.

The Necrons have snipers that shoot you from hyperspace, Every last single Necron warrior starship, or combat vehicle has a built in personal teleporter that can beam them back to the nearest tombworld on a moment's notice and their most basic guns disassemble their victim on an atomic level, sucks the resulting particles into the barrel and then teleports them somewhere (IIRC it was originally designed to send the remain off to be fed on by the C'tan).

I think they take it...

I said it wrong, I should've said Necron's don't use it to do that.

Seriously everyone's nitpicking that one little line.