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 happygolucky wrote:

 Thokt wrote:
Thread title says it all? What would fellow Necron players like to see in the next 'dex?

My hopes:

4) Long range artillery. It would be fantastic to have something a touch better than the Doomsday Ark.

*Ahem*

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Necrons/NECRON_SENTRY_PYLON_WITH_GAUSS_EXTERMINATOR.html

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Necrons/NECRON_SENTRY_PYLON_WITH_HEAT_CANNON.html

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Necrons/NECRON_SENTRY_PYLON_WITH_DEATH_RAY.html

These can be taken in squadrons..

You can thank me later..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
MSS gone. Something That powerful should not exist

This. 1000X over.

Can they be taken in Codex: Necrons? No? Ok then. His point still stands.

Also, please explain to me how else necrons are meant to counter Monstrous Creatures and beatstick ICs without becoming yet another Space Marine clone.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:

 Thokt wrote:
Thread title says it all? What would fellow Necron players like to see in the next 'dex?

My hopes:

4) Long range artillery. It would be fantastic to have something a touch better than the Doomsday Ark.

*Ahem*

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Necrons/NECRON_SENTRY_PYLON_WITH_GAUSS_EXTERMINATOR.html

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Necrons/NECRON_SENTRY_PYLON_WITH_HEAT_CANNON.html

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Necrons/NECRON_SENTRY_PYLON_WITH_DEATH_RAY.html

These can be taken in squadrons..

You can thank me later..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
MSS gone. Something That powerful should not exist

This. 1000X over.

Can they be taken in Codex: Necrons? No? Ok then. His point still stands.

Also, please explain to me how else necrons are meant to counter Monstrous Creatures and beatstick ICs without becoming yet another Space Marine clone.

A) They are 40k approved, therefore they can be taken, if people cannot accept this fact then they are not following "official" rules.

B) Maybe they shouldn't? you have the tesseract (or whatever that cube is). Similarly a Wargear item that gives a modifier to a few stats instead of hitting myself in the face, I would rather attack at say WS1 than rather just throwing away Slay The Warlord trait.

Or what about those lists that don't include a MC? so its ok if it was a DP or a Tyrant? but what about the CSM lord? or the Lord Commissar, is it ok that they should be getting no attacks through and then get a Warscythe in the face? or even the Lord Abbadon or Marenus Calgar? I really don't see SC hitting themselves in the face, after surviving as long as they have.

What MSS is basically an RPG element gone horribly wrong, I can see MSS working in a game of Rouge Trader or Dark heresy manipulating a character and a mission is compromised in order to save their comrade, but not as a piece of Wargear in a mass battle table top wargame.

Similarly you have good items for good Invulnerable saves and good armour saves, and you even have the Warscythe and if that does not scream anti-MC then I do not know what does if dice go poor then that's nature of the beast.

Also you have guns to take them out. Think of your army and what you can put into your army as a whole as a counter, rather than relying on one lazy piece of Wargear.

At the very worst it should be kept the same with a point increase and Warlord only.

I appreciate the FW links, but was already aware of that material. I don't have an interest in FW books, I would like to have artillery in the next codex. If it's a pylon, that's fine, if it's something new, or a reworking of the Doomsday Ark, I'm cool with that too. I'd just like more ways to play.

A) They indeed are. But this is a thread about a new codex.

B) Tessaracts are 1 use only and remove models on a wounds test. Monsters tend to have plenty . Not very reliable.

The Warscythe is indeed killy. It's also 3 attacks at WS4 and initiative 2. Still not very reliable, especially against T6 5W monsters who are much, much better at CC than the overlord. Fun fact - last edition lords had warscythes, and MCs and CC characters still killed them off. In fact, lords back then had initiative 4.

Abbadon and Calgar will butcher a necron squad, so yeah, they should get MSS'd. It is a tool after all. You might as well call melta cheesy for wrecking vehicles so efficiently.
Don't want your characters MSS'd? Then mob the bearer; the target has to be randomly determined, and must be in B2b contact so piling another 2 mooks on the lord or keeping the character away from him should stop him from punching himself.

And the guns? The short ranged, low strength or not-decent AP guns? Not that effective against monsters either.

Now, I do agree that the MSS should be more expensive; I always thought that 25-30pts is more suitable. But removing it from the army? You might as well remove synapse from tyranids.

I disagree with MSS being OP. If you swarm the model who has it it isn't so bad. Also I've played plenty of games where it fails to hit so I don't think anything should be done to it.

I agree with better playability for flayed ones. I also would love to see a Silent King model that buffs your army somehow. Maybe give the whole army BS+1?

I would like to see Praetorians get some love. When was the last time anyone actually fielded them? They get 1A at I2, who would use them as assault troops? They suffer the same problem that the Lychguard have. They cost too much for what you get. If they could get a necron praetorian lord, it might be more worthwhile. I just have a hard time with the 1A. I don't even care what slot they are in, they are cool model concept and I would use them if they had more than 1A.

Lychguard are too expensive for what you get. I know I don't use them because a unit of 10 is 400pts, a unit of 5 gets taken off the board too quickly. Maybe give them everliving so they still get a chance to get back up even if the unit is shot dead?

I think the shield save and deflection should be used regardless of whether the invulnerable save is required. Are they just letting tons of bolter fire hit them because their 3+ is better? Probably not. Give them a chance to deflect regardless of the save used.

Destroyers either need another wound, +1 toughness, or some sort of character in the unit besides a HQ choice. You can put them with destroyer lords but that is a pretty heavy tax for an orb. As they are, they are 5 models that get taken off the board entirely too fast.

Heavy destroyers, same issue for 60pts instead of 40pts. I think the upgrade is too expensive as well, I can see 10pts but not 20pts. the base model is a str5 AP3 weapon with 2 attacks. The Upgrade is str9 ap2 with 1 attack.

I personally love monoliths and I think DS protection is perfect and I would field them with just that simple change.

Tomb Blades, let me take more than 5 in a unit or have a lord that can ride a tomb blade and I would be all over these.

Reality:

Wraiths are going to get nerfed. They will probably lose phase shift if I was a betting man.

I fully expect that warriors will no longer be able to take Nightscythes as a dedicated transport, only immortals and the other elite choices. Warriors will probably only be able to take Ghost Arks. Too many people complain about necron air, cheap units with great transports.

Anni Barges will get a cost increase and nothing else.

MSS will get nerfed. They will probably just make it so the unit can't attack.

Essentially everything that makes Necrons competitive will take a hit. They did it to Tyranids, they will do it to Necrons.

Even if warriors couldn't use scythes as a DT I wouldnt mind paying extra for Immortals. I sadly think that you are right and Wraiths will get powered down. Honestly outside of Wraiths getting tanked I think necrons have a pretty good codex. Not overly OP but strong enough to make an opponent work at beating them.

Monolith Deep Strike protection would own lol!

Warmonger2757 wrote:
I would like to see Praetorians get some love. When was the last time anyone actually fielded them? They get 1A at I2, who would use them as assault troops? They suffer the same problem that the Lychguard have. They cost too much for what you get. If they could get a necron praetorian lord, it might be more worthwhile. I just have a hard time with the 1A. I don't even care what slot they are in, they are cool model concept and I would use them if they had more than 1A.

Reality:

Wraiths are going to get nerfed. They will probably lose phase shift if I was a betting man.

I fully expect that warriors will no longer be able to take Nightscythes as a dedicated transport, only immortals and the other elite choices. Warriors will probably only be able to take Ghost Arks. Too many people complain about necron air, cheap units with great transports.

Anni Barges will get a cost increase and nothing else.

MSS will get nerfed. They will probably just make it so the unit can't attack.

Essentially everything that makes Necrons competitive will take a hit. They did it to Tyranids, they will do it to Necrons.

Praetorians have 2 attacks with the pistols. They lose the ability to fight terminators and the like but are able to hunt vehicles and harass ranged units. Most likely not that great unless you field wraiths as well that move up the board. However, I do believe that they are some of the better of the seldom used units. Their main failing are being less sturdy and worse in an assault than Wraiths. A slight cost increase on Wraiths combined with a cost decrease for Praetorians would make them rather attractive in my opinion.

Lychguards are just bad though. They are slow with low initiative and less sturdy than terminators and lack an assault vehicle. I doubt they would see a lot of play without a 50% point cost reduction or something equally drastic.

I think nerfing all the bread and butter necrons relies on these days without buffing anything else is an overly pessimistic outlook. The necron codex is fairly balanced today, even if the internal balance is a bit wonky. Some nerfs to the auto- include-in-every-list things is realistic, but I would expect wraiths and annihilation barges to still be useful after an update as well as some of the bad things in the codex to become useable.

 Truth118 wrote:
Judging by the past few codices, I bet we lose at least one special character, hopefully not Trazyn or Nemesor Zahndrekh/Obyron. Night Scythes and Anh. Barges could use a price increase, I just hope they don't nerf Tesla on top of that.

I'd like to see the Monolith become usable again and I'd probably get more praetorians if they were made more useful. Mixed weapon loadout for Lychguard would be sweet.

I agree with most of what's been said already.

For all the hate Ward gets, the current Necron codex is pretty good with just a handful of internal balance issues. Judging by many of the fluff entries, I don't think he's a particularly good writer, but he had some interesting ideas that made the Necrons far more interesting. Maybe if I read the GK codex I might understand the hate more.

We won't lose any special characters, since we have all the models for them. Special characters and units have been lost in other codexes, are because they don't have models.

Lychguard should get buffed to 2+ keep the shields where they are but give an additional option for a heavier weapon so they can be our terminators.

I use preatorians even though they are not the best option with a destroyer Lord they can hurt, they are over priced though so should drop to 30 points and keep current options.

Flayed one's suck because of I2, so make they the one exception to the rule and have them at I4, would not be game breaking would make them worth taking.

I use destroyers they are okay but do need a buff their shooting is fine but their survivability isn't.

I don't think wraiths will lose inv but may indeed take a movement hit with loss or change to wraithflight or they may just get a bump in price.

But we do need better ranged heavy weaponry it's kind of silly that such an ancient and advanced race caps most weapons at 24 inches.

hobojebus wrote:
Lychguard should get buffed to 2+ keep the shields where they are but give an additional option for a heavier weapon so they can be our terminators.

I use preatorians even though they are not the best option with a destroyer Lord they can hurt, they are over priced though so should drop to 30 points and keep current options.

Flayed one's suck because of I2, so make they the one exception to the rule and have them at I4, would not be game breaking would make them worth taking.

I use destroyers they are okay but do need a buff their shooting is fine but their survivability isn't.

I don't think wraiths will lose inv but may indeed take a movement hit with loss or change to wraithflight or they may just get a bump in price.

But we do need better ranged heavy weaponry it's kind of silly that such an ancient and advanced race caps most weapons at 24 inches.

a 2+ is just too good on Lychguard. T5 2+ and RP is way to powerful for 40 points.

II do think Wraiths will get a fairly hefty price increase, probably 10 ppm more.

T5 2+ would be fine. It should not mean more than they they draw more fire as they move up, making people decide if they want to handle wraiths now or risk the lychguard reaching them. Although an other option would be to make them jump infantry in order to differentiate them from terminators. Mobile, hurty and not overly tough would be a decent niche.

Edit: quotes got messed up and I was unable to fix them from the phone.

I agree that mss needs to be fixed or removed, same with anni barges, these need an increase to around 120pts, deathsythes need to be at least 180 and dooms 200 but gw hasn't a clue how to price fliers properly so it will more likely be 150 and 180 respectively.

Warriors need a slight buff too I think, something similar to bladestorm fit, then there would a choice between.then and immortals.

Destroyers need lowering in cost too, especially heavies, monolith is absolutely fine at its points cost but bump it up 25pts if people want mishap immunity as that's pretty damn good for such a large model, another thing I would add is ap2 on its large blast, never understood why it isn't already.

 Formosa wrote:
I agree that mss needs to be fixed or removed, same with anni barges, these need an increase to around 120pts, deathsythes need to be at least 180 and dooms 200 but gw hasn't a clue how to price fliers properly so it will more likely be 150 and 180 respectively.

Warriors need a slight buff too I think, something similar to bladestorm fit, then there would a choice between.then and immortals.

Destroyers need lowering in cost too, especially heavies, monolith is absolutely fine at its points cost but bump it up 25pts if people want mishap immunity as that's pretty damn good for such a large model, another thing I would add is ap2 on its large blast, never understood why it isn't already.

There is absolusty zero reason that Night Scythes should be 180 points, that's absolutly ludicrous. Doomscythes are fine at 175.

T5 2+ would be fine. It should not mean more than they they draw more fire as they move up, making people decide if they want to handle wraiths now or risk the lychguard reaching them. Although an other option would be to make them jump infantry in order to differentiate them from terminators. Mobile, hurty and not overly tough would be a decent niche.

T5, 2+ and RP for 40 points is not fine. It's ludicrous. There are better ways to fix Lychguard than giving them a 2+ save.

Nightsythes are a dedicated flyer transport that's worth 100pts alone, add on the str7 tesla that's twin-linked and immunity to damage for any passengers, the ability to drop off said passengers anywhere you like pretty much and a large capacity...this all sounds like 180pts quite easily, now if we take away dedicated transport and immunity for passengers, add in hover mode and change the wormhole to be similar to the sky drop from valks/vens, so it either has to take a risk when dropping troops out or hover, then I can see it being around 150 or even 130.

Okay, I'm not a crons player, but here goes...

1. Remove MSS. Or Change it.

Short of its sibling the MSSS, the MSS is possibly one of the most unreasonably useful things in that codex. Not only does it almost ensure the user will smack himself in the face being on 3D6 (2D6 with a -2 LD modifier would be better, and achieve similar results). Furthermore, it should NOT increase a model's damage output by 300% - a model who gets only 1 attack that phase should NOT get 3 attacks because scarabs made him do it.

2. Increase in points for night scythes. 120~130 points.

Not unprecedented, and not unreasonable. They pack a better version of a quad gun / ADL and cost the same price, with a transport capacity - all while protecting troops better than an ADL ever could.

3. Wraiths lose something

30 points, they get 2 T4 wounds with a 3++, 4 attacks and rending at S6. Did I mention how they're fearless? Wraiths can literally deal with anything if thrown up with a destroyer lord, even a land raider.
Either increase their points to something reasonable for their output - 75 points per model - or remove or reduce their invulnerable save, while reducing one of their other benefits. It would be reasonable if they had fleshbane instead of rending.

4. Warriors and immortals lose some leadership and go up in price a little.
Anyone notice they basically get a 5+ invulnerable save?
Immortals have a 22% chance of being removed as a casualty because of AP4/5/6, and a 67% chance against AP3/2/1.
Warriors have a 33% chance - the equivalent of a 3+ save - against AP5/6 and 67% chance against everything else.

5. C'tan returned to their former glory
Not a necessity, but I loved C'tan as they were in the HQ slot. They should get a reboot.

I do not think Lychguard with a 2+ would be ridiculous as they lack an assault vehicle. Might not be the most fun way to go aboit it though.

Lychguard do not need an assault transport, and aren't meant to be the necron version of terminators. They are not meant to spearhead assaults or seek out targets, but stay near the overlord and support the main army.=
They are rearguards, not vanguards.

Their current stats are fine. They just need more flexible options than all defense or all offense, and need to have their shields be the default gear. A power sword and a 4++ save should not cost more than a +2S AP1 weapon with Armor Bane, imo.

Well, let's see.

Based on the Tyranid rule changes, Mindshackle Scarabs will probably work the same but be rolled on LD-3, rather than on 3D6.

The Destroyer Lord will also go up by 15-25 pts.

Night Scythes will go up in cost, but I'm not sure by how much. Probably akin to 50 points, however. (The old point cost was based on them being fast skimmers, not flying.)

Doom Scythes will also increase in cost, probably to 190 pts, for the same reason.

Phase Shifting will be moved back to a 4+ Invulnerable save.

Wraiths will have Coils be aligned with Lashwhips and simply provide +3 Initiative to the model with them. They will get a price increase of 5 pts if the Phase Shift rule is weakened as above, 10 points if not. (Compare to Raveners or Ogryns in newer books for this direction. Ouch.)

Ghost Arcs will increase in cost by 10 points for no apparent reason.They will also either lose Gauss Array or will no longer allow passengers to fire out. They will then be largely set aside and no longer used by players.

So, that's the bad news.

The GOOD news.

Warlord Traits and Artifacts are a given.

Phase out + Fearless isn't a bad option, but would probably be optional (Akin to Marine chapter tactic) ... Heck, there's a chance of getting 6 "Legion Formations" that you can use to personalize the force a bit. What all those might be, I don't know, but I can make some suggestions later.

The addition of 1-2 new HQ options. Most likely are a "Warlord" 2 wound model and a "Cryptek Lord" of some kind. There's a chance that they'll just go ahead and make Crypteks psychers, just to get more rule alignment. This would also solve the Necron weakness to psychic powers (Or at least address it) ... if this is chosen, Necrons would get access to a "Harbinger" set of "Psychic" powers.

Personally, I'd go with two Harbinger charts, one for "Deciever" and one for "Destroyer", explained as using tiny C'Tan shards to draw power from and unleash enrgy on targets. If more C'tan were later introduced, they could get new charts and everything would flow along naturally.

(This would require recasting the current "Harbinger of blank" stuff, which may or may not be a good thing. Most people I know don't really get into that aspect, but, YMMV and all that.)

Necron Lords will gain a "Royal Entourage" with the Bodyguard rule. These will probably be Lychguards.

Necron Warriors will see a small point decrease (1-2 points, probably just the 1), but be given a few more options, such as Defensive Grenades.

C'tan Shards may be moved to HQ.

Flayed Ones will gain Fear. No one will care. They will be decreased to 10 points each. People will perk up a bit! They will probably be lowered to 2 attacks (or 1 and count their weapons as an addition CCW. Same effect.) ... People will be sad again. They will be moved to Troops and get a plastic kit, where people will start at least fiddling around with them.

Scarabs will have their Entropic Strike rule removed and replaced with an option to exchange their normal melee attacks for a single Haywire attack. (This will be done to align rules and to remove bookkeeping from changing armor values.) If the world is filled with hate, they'll lose Beasts and be bumped into Troops, akin to Tyranid Ripper Swarms.

Pariahs return. They'll be given a rule akin to auto-passing all "Deny the Witch" roles, cause Fear, and possibly get a "Psychic Hood"-like power to nullify psychic powers within 6" on a 4+ once per turn. They'll remain terribly underused. They won't get a new model kit and everyone will be a bit testy about that.

A new great big model centerpiece thing. While a giant stone statue-type thing would be awesome and fit in with the Knight/Tide/etc paradigm, it will more than likely be a Sphinx-like shape instead. Death Ray eyes, monsterous creature in melee, maybe some kind of tail zap as well.

Lychguard and Praetorians get combined into a new plastic kit. Immortals and Deathmarks (eventually) get similar treatment.

A new Necron Lord plastic "clamshell" gets a release, as well as a "Royal Entourage" box. These are sadly overpriced but wind up being really, really cool and full of upgrades and options.

That's ... more than just talking about Codex changes, but, well, I was on a roll there.

Wakshaani wrote:


Ghost Arcs will increase in cost by 10 points for no apparent reason.They will also either lose Gauss Array or will no longer allow passengers to fire out. They will then be largely set aside and no longer used by players.

So, that's the bad news.

Actually, Chimeras have an array rule, so it's likely that the Ghost ark will keep it.
Not letting anyone shoot out would turn it into a closed top vehicle. That's a good thing.

Also...Praets and Lychgaurd already come in a duel kit. Same with Immortals and Marks.

It doesn't make that much sense for C'tan to be HQ choices...unless you retcon the lore again.

I'm actually fairly happy with Crons, but the only changes I'd like to see are something along the lines of:
- Wraiths either losing a wound+ attack or the 3++
- Increase in price of the floaty shooty chair thing (Name escapes me atm)
- Flayed ones, Triarch Praetorians to gain some special rules to make them a bit more exciting/useable. Maybe change them to dedicated MC/ vehicle hunters?
- Lychguard to drop in points. A lot.
- Removal of a few special characters (honestly, who takes Anakyr?) as long as Trazyn+Obyrn/Zahndrek stay I'm happy.
- More long range shooting (preferably something to take down MCs more easily)
- adding in Acantharites to the main codex, to stop all the kerfuffle over using them.
- More tellyporty options. Necrons are goddamn super advanced robots, make them phase in out and all about like them!

This is just my personal preference, but I would really like to see crypteks roles revisited. Turn from the gun platforms that most people use them as now into more utility based, you can almost see that now with things like the chronometron, veil of darkness, and solar pulse.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Actually, Chimeras have an array rule, so it's likely that the Ghost ark will keep it.
Not letting anyone shoot out would turn it into a closed top vehicle. That's a good thing.

Also...Praets and Lychgaurd already come in a duel kit. Same with Immortals and Marks.

It doesn't make that much sense for C'tan to be HQ choices...unless you retcon the lore again.

I'd go with the array but close the top myself. (It has a force field. That's invisible. Roll with it!) The array rule is neat.

And some how I missed the dual kits already existing. This will teach me to not buy a new model from the line for a few years. D'oh.

C'Tan Shards in HQ would be akin to the Avatar in Eldar and is a more reasonable place for them. (You also get a nice theme going, with a C'Tan HQ, then lots of Cryptek units that follow/worship/draw power from it as your force.) ... it'd free up Elite slots, which is also nice. Teh fluff would be tricky, however, since they don't exactly LEAD anymore.

Needs some work yet.

Running out of elite slots is not really a problem though. But yeah an utility based HQ would be fun, maybe one could make a cryptek-lord kind of thing even?

Not sure how one would accomplish it, but I would actually like to see some manner of deviation from most things being 24" range. More utility and some difference between units, ability to build longer range lists as well as meaningful 12" gauss lists would be interesting though.

A generic Cryptek HQ would be pretty fun to have.

Freeing up elite slots is not necessary, though, as the Elite slot for Necrons is mostly filled with overcosted below-average to useless stuff.

A HQ C'tan does not sound too bad, just bring the old Deceiver or Nightbringer back, they'd make good C'tan standings.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

B) Tessaracts are 1 use only and remove models on a wounds test. Monsters tend to have plenty . Not very reliable.

Still exists as an option though.

The Warscythe is indeed killy. It's also 3 attacks at WS4 and initiative 2. Still not very reliable, especially against T6 5W monsters who are much, much better at CC than the overlord. Fun fact - last edition lords had warscythes, and MCs and CC characters still killed them off. In fact, lords back then had initiative 4.

Yup, I remember this. I also remember the I'll be back rolls and the Invulnerable saves that kept them on the board.

Abbadon and Calgar will butcher a necron squad, so yeah, they should get MSS'd.

Nope this is not an RPG. Abbadon has survived 10,000 years though all sorts of hell and became the chosen of gods because of this. Somehow I don't see a little mind chip really affecting him that much. All I hear is someone being bitter at character's that are built for CC.

It is a tool after all. You might as well call melta cheesy for wrecking vehicles so efficiently.

However melta has a range and a very short one, hence why not many people complain about it.

Don't want your characters MSS'd? Then mob the bearer; the target has to be randomly determined, and must be in B2b contact so piling another 2 mooks on the lord or keeping the character away from him should stop him from punching himself.

Yes because SM the elite of the elite are supposed to "Mob" yes you could take AM but I don't think every player will want to ally with "mobbing".

And the guns? The short ranged, low strength or not-decent AP guns? Not that effective against monsters either.

So you talk of "Mobbing" which is basically volumes of dice in CC, yet apparently in a shooty edition volumes of dice to kill a MC doesn't work? No I have seen telsa work fine on CC units and MC's, I have seen Flyrant's ad FDP get shot down in one turn by Volumes of dice produced by guns from the Necrons, also to note those short range guns will not have far to go just needing one movement phase to move, why? because those CC units will be moving to you, and they will be coming in the fastest way possible meaning that your units will not need to move much. That CC unit charges? Overwatch. and Overwatch with Tesla is all the more better .

Now, I do agree that the MSS should be more expensive; I always thought that 25-30pts is more suitable.

And whilst I agree very, very thinly that it should get a points increase, it should be limited to warlord only.

But removing it from the army? You might as well remove synapse from tyranids.

Again another blown out of proportion response by another user on Dakka.

The Necrons weakness was that they were always sucked in CC but had very good guns just like Tau. What made them different from Tau was that they were may more durable which came in the form of T: 4, a decent save and RP, they also have very nice invulnerable saves. Their vehicles also have very good durability in the form of those shields and living metal. their durability is what allows them to advance unlike Tau which remain stationary.

As I have said and will say again. MSS is an RPG element gone horribly wrong. MSS is meant to manipulate the wielder and its function was to get a host to infiltrate the enemy and perform espionage, as I have said I can see MSS in Dark Heresy or Deathwatch or Rouge Trader, but not as a war element for a mass battle Tabletop wargame. All it is, is Mat Ward being petty and throwing up his middle digit at all CC units, and its became a crutch piece of Wargear that is spammed by all Lord from all Necron players.

An assault troops choice with an Initiative higher than 2 that is a respectable points cost (so not 200 + for a five man unit).
A cool new big canoptek monstrous creature designed for assault that can tunnel underground or something. Also not Initiative 2. That would be pretty cool.
Also less finecast. That stuff sucks to work with (although it does look great)

Sasori wrote:

T5 2+ would be fine. It should not mean more than they they draw more fire as they move up, making people decide if they want to handle wraiths now or risk the lychguard reaching them. Although an other option would be to make them jump infantry in order to differentiate them from terminators. Mobile, hurty and not overly tough would be a decent niche.

T5, 2+ and RP for 40 points is not fine. It's ludicrous. There are better ways to fix Lychguard than giving them a 2+ save.

Is T5, 2+ and RP REALLY that far out there for 40 points? Nurgle Chaos terminators are what? 37? For T5, 2+/5++, combi bolter and power weapon of your choosing. It's not like people are lining up to say how overpowered chaos terminators are.....

That said, I don't think it's the optimal solution, but the Necron book does lack a 2+ save unit.

Formosa wrote:Nightsythes are a dedicated flyer transport that's worth 100pts alone, add on the str7 tesla that's twin-linked and immunity to damage for any passengers, the ability to drop off said passengers anywhere you like pretty much and a large capacity...this all sounds like 180pts quite easily, now if we take away dedicated transport and immunity for passengers, add in hover mode and change the wormhole to be similar to the sky drop from valks/vens, so it either has to take a risk when dropping troops out or hover, then I can see it being around 150 or even 130.

They need to lose the "drop from flyer mode" ability, or go up in points. One or the other.

Change MSS to "highest two of 3d6" and I'm happy. Single biggest source of BS and rage ever. 50% chance on ld 10 to hit yourself for 15 points is down right stupid. As a Nid player who goes against crons very regularly (30-40 games in the past year), always against an overlord with semp weave, phase shifter, warscythe, and MSS, I almost cried tears of joy both times I killed one.