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I forgot about Tomb Blades entirely. It would be awesome to see them get reworked a bit. Love the models, just don't see them making it in a list.

Wakshaani wrote:
C'Tan Shards in HQ would be akin to the Avatar in Eldar and is a more reasonable place for them. (You also get a nice theme going, with a C'Tan HQ, then lots of Cryptek units that follow/worship/draw power from it as your force.) ... it'd free up Elite slots, which is also nice. Teh fluff would be tricky, however, since they don't exactly LEAD anymore.

C'tan shards in current fluff are basically deranged mind controlled Pokemon that get unleashed on the battlefield and then locked up again at the end of the battle, it would make zero sense for them to be an HQ choice as basically, given free will, they would likely rather turn on the Necrons themselves than fight their enemies for them.

Moreover, full powered C'tan are so overpowered in fluff as to make using them on a battlefield downright slowed- the Nightbringer could kill everything in a solar system with a swing of its scythe and the Moulder of Worlds reshaped planets on a whim to make their forms more pleasing for him, there's no rules you could give them other than "if you have this model in your army you win the game".

I would like the Triarch part of Triarch Stalker to be dropped. It doesn't make that much sense to me that a walker like that can only be fielded by members of the triarch.

Maybe the Triarch Stalker can be an upgrade, granting it an extra hull point or something.

Also, closed cockpits on the flyers. It doesn't make sense rules wise, and it looks ridiculous.
Speaking of closed tops, you'd thing that a powerful and ancient race of aliens would work out that putting a layer of metal over the exposed parts of a vehicle would increase it's resilience by a fair margin.
I mean, that annihilation barge more or less has a giant "shoot me here" sign with its exposed pilots. I don't really mind the Ghost ark being exposed since that was a re-purposed civilian vehicle, but things like the Triarch Stalker and the Annihilation barges are dedicated military vehicles. Put a hatch over it for Void Dragon's sake.

I would also like to see more strange war-machines and contraptions, the more B-Movie sci-fi the better.
Because SCIENCE!

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I would like the Triarch part of Triarch Stalker to be dropped. It doesn't make that much sense to me that a walker like that can only be fielded by members of the triarch.

Maybe the Triarch Stalker can be an upgrade, granting it an extra hull point or something.

Also, closed cockpits on the flyers. It doesn't make sense rules wise, and it looks ridiculous.
Speaking of closed tops, you'd thing that a powerful and ancient race of aliens would work out that putting a layer of metal over the exposed parts of a vehicle would increase it's resilience by a fair margin.
I mean, that annihilation barge more or less has a giant "shoot me here" sign with its exposed pilots.

I would also like to see more strange war-machines and contraptions, the more B-Movie sci-fi the better.
Because SCIENCE!

I guess you forgot about Quantum shielding, but I must admit some of the designs seem a little bit weird especially with the night/doom scythe pilot just sticking out like a sore thumb. An ascetic change I would like to see is to make them more like some of the Adeptus Mechincus (I apologize if I misspelt that) in that the operators are part of the machine, instead of just having them connected to it.

Even with quantum shielding, it's just strange to see so many open topped vehicles. I can understand Dark Eldar having open topped vehicles, since they need a way to enter and leave their craft easily, but with necrons it's just...odd.

I suppose it's for balance reasons, but still.
Merging the pilots with the machines would fix that problem, in a way. That way, it becomes less "shoot our pilots" and more "shoot just another part of the vehicle"

 Jaceevoke wrote:
I guess you forgot about Quantum shielding, but I must admit some of the designs seem a little bit weird especially with the night/doom scythe pilot just sticking out like a sore thumb. An ascetic change I would like to see is to make them more like some of the Adeptus Mechincus (I apologize if I misspelt that) in that the operators are part of the machine, instead of just having them connected to it.

Always seemed rather silly to me that the Necron pilots are physically hooked up to their vehicles yet still need to operate control consoles and push knobs around to do sh*t with them.

Moreover, given the extent of their autonomous AI capabilities it also seems rather pointless to even bother with pilots in the first place...

I think they use non-AI pilots as a matter of pride or some gak* like that.

*May not be actual gak, though AI would be higher on the coolness scale

Compare 3x Heavy Destroyers to a Vendetta and weep.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Compare 3x Heavy Destroyers to a Vendetta and weep.

Watch the new necron flyer be a nightscythe with 3 heavy destroyers welded onto it

Open topped flyer, of course.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Compare 3x Heavy Destroyers to a Vendetta and weep.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Compare 3x Heavy Destroyers to a Vendetta and weep.

I want everyone complaining about the Vendetta to be overpriced to have the option exchanged with a squad of Heavy Destroyers.

Heavy Destroyers really, really need a rework. Necrons are low on high strength firepower because of the incredible cost to field it. Doomscythes, Doomsday Arks, and Heavy Destroyers are all very pricey. I don't expect all of them to be properly repaired, but if one could function reasonably well (my vote is heavy destroyers with a new non-centaur body style), I would be pumped. A new model for the Heavy Destroyer opens up the opportunity for new tech as well, I'd love some new toys.

Just reduce its cost or increase its stats to W2.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Just reduce its cost or increase its stats to W2.

I agree with giving it two wounds. I mean, look at the size of it; there's no way a model that bulky is no more resistant than the much smaller lychguard.
Of course, that would mean giving the Destroyer Lord 4W for consistency's sake. Though and additional wound and T6 would compensate for it's lack of SW

MSS are fine. Really.

As a person who plays Necrons AND other armies, the space zombies need it.

Why? Because they have no badass melee units (wraiths are closest) and NO good CC characters.

None, natta, zipola.

they dont have a dragio, mephiston, a calgar or even something as good as the terrible tyranid prime.

They got jack and diddly, and jack left town.

The MSS are their way of making a strong CC hq choice.

Is it incredibly annoying (yes). But so is fighting any of the really nasty named guys I mentioned.

Anyway, I would be fine to see MSS go away...if the crons got some decent CC units...maybe what the lychguard or flayed ones are supposed to be.

What about Kutlakh the World Killer? With his Ap 2 ID weapon, the fact that he reduces his opponents weapon skill, fear (okay maybe that isn't all that good), and fearless. I don't really run CC armies so maybe I don't know what your suppose to look for in a CC guy, but he is durable has a three up invuln, can take a CCB for quickly getting across the board or he can deepstrike with a cryptek.

Why? Because they have no badass melee units (wraiths are closest) and NO good CC characters.

And thus you deserve to keep something because of bad internal balance on all those melee HQ's, and units?

No. This is bad cause and effect.

Before 6th edition CCB's were all the rage, destroyer-wraith combos, and even then you still have a unit you can plonk in there and use effectively as melee, and the best weapon at the cheapest cost ingame (warscythe.)

Try a better argument.

they dont have a dragio, mephiston, a calgar or even something as good as the terrible tyranid prime.

All of which are terrible now in 6th edition, should they be compensated because MSS is still awesome?

C'tan Shards get access to - or by default get - some sort of movement boost ability. Maybe Moulder of Worlds allows them to bend space to their whim allowing them to move 12" instead of 6" And give them back their T8 (in all honesty, if WraithLords were dropped to T7 too, I probably wouldn't be irked by the C'tan Shards' T7)

Destroyers gain +1W or drop in price

Destroyers basic gun returns to that of old [36" S6 AP4 Assault 3(?)]

Destroyers gain access to a wider spectrum of weapons i.e. Tesla, Particle, Heat Ray

Wraiths become necrons - as opposed to canopteks - again and drop to 1W

Monolith gets back S9 particle whip and center of blast template is AP1 or 2

I wouldn't mind an MSS change, but I like it as it is. The 2D6 at -2 Ld test is fine by me.

Flayed Ones get their oldcron profile along with attack stat boost.

Praetorians get 2A base

Lychguard can have either a 2+ and Warscythe or 3+/4++ and power weapon

Give the Gauntlet of Fire AP3 in CC

Drop Tesla Destructor to Heavy 3.

Give Annihilation Barges the ability to swap out the Tesla Destructor with Particle Shredder or Heavy Gauss Cannon and the Tesla Cannon with Gauss Cannon or Particle Beamer

Trade out Tesla Destructors with Particle Shredders on the Doom Scythe and make the death ray a purchasable upgrade making it fulfill the role of a Bomber (in hindsight, more like Close Air Support akin to the A-10 Thunderbolt) rather than a Fighter Bomber.

Fix the Chronotek. Only having one genuinely worthwhile piece of equipment - chronometron - makes me sad

Give Obyron a 4++. Just Because.

Allow Overlords to purchase one piece of Cryptek wargear not including their staves, staffs, lances, default wargear thing-a-ma-jig.

...And that's all I have for now.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Before 6th edition CCB's were all the rage, destroyer-wraith combos, and even then you still have a unit you can plonk in there and use effectively as melee, and the best weapon at the cheapest cost ingame (warscythe.)

Though to be fair, it's 10 points over the Staff of Light which is already included in the cost of the Lord/Overlord. (So only seems really cheap)

I do think the extra strength should go or it should get boosted up to 15/20 points, though

A lot of superb ideas going on here - wanted to add a few of my own:

Option to take a wraith/destroyer/flayer Overlord/Phaeron with named HQ's of each.

C'Tan buffed - Perhaps including stat bonuses depending on loadout they come with.

Pariahs included as an elite, honor guard, or Lychguard-upgrade option.

Initiative of Lychguard/Praetorian/OL improved. If your bodies and minds are superior, why do they still react so slowly. This would also solve the problem of MSS being 90% a requirement and letting it be relegated back to an "artifact" option.

Cryptek stats buffed inline to Orpheus norms.

Flayed ones gain initiative (insane, Edward scissor hands monstrosities that move... like ... molass - ... es ...) and rules designed to get them in the middle of enemy ranks unsuspectingly. (Not too bright at 3:00 A.M.)

Praetorians lose the unwieldy rule on RoC.

Command Barges increase AV to 12. (You're housing the most important guy in your entire army.. and you have the resiliency of a flier.) Quantum shielding still pops easily, but at least now it makes sense and you're not fragile to the plethora of ranged dakka in 6th.

Chapter Tactics - C'Tan style! Since each C'Tan controlled his own mini-empire of Necron slaves, it makes sense that their would influence their armies. Why not?

I want to say another Canoptek unit, but that's getting to the point of being overdone. We *do* have very few Canopteks meant for battle though - excluding Orpheus I don't think any are specifically mentioned as being intended for outside the tomb. Hmmm..

Ferros wrote:
A lot of superb ideas going on here - wanted to add a few of my own:

Option to take a wraith/destroyer/flayer Overlord/Phaeron with named HQ's of each.

C'Tan buffed - Perhaps including stat bonuses depending on loadout they come with.

Pariahs included as an elite, honor guard, or Lychguard-upgrade option.

Initiative of Lychguard/Praetorian/OL improved. If your bodies and minds are superior, why do they still react so slowly. This would also solve the problem of MSS being 90% a requirement and letting it be relegated back to an "artifact" option.

Cryptek stats buffed inline to Orpheus norms.

Flayed ones gain initiative (insane, Edward scissor hands monstrosities that move... like ... molass - ... es ...) and rules designed to get them in the middle of enemy ranks unsuspectingly. (Not too bright at 3:00 A.M.)

Praetorians lose the unwieldy rule on RoC.

Command Barges increase AV to 12. (You're housing the most important guy in your entire army.. and you have the resiliency of a flier.) Quantum shielding still pops easily, but at least now it makes sense and you're not fragile to the plethora of ranged dakka in 6th.

Chapter Tactics - C'Tan style! Since each C'Tan controlled his own mini-empire of Necron slaves, it makes sense that their would influence their armies. Why not?

I want to say another Canoptek unit, but that's getting to the point of being overdone. We *do* have very few Canopteks meant for battle though - excluding Orpheus I don't think any are specifically mentioned as being intended for outside the tomb. Hmmm..

Only critique is the C'tan style chapter tactics. For better or worse, C'tan are now pokemon slaves of the Necrons. If anything, there should be a set of big dynasties that influence it based on which you pick (that said you will probably never get it as IG didn't despite deserving it more than SM and in fact lost much of their fluff for any army besides Cadians or Catachans). Besides that, I'm liking quite a couple of ideas. Not quite sure about the command barges. Don't know how good or bad they are. I'd like the return of Pariahs, revision to MSS or removal of it entirely, an update to the warscythe to rebalance it, Flayed one buff to make them capable of getting into the enemy (sadly no assault otu of DS but somethign to help them survive a turn and get that assault in the next turn for sure), C'tan buff. Give them T7 minimum perhaps? Admittedly they are shards so 6 isn't really that bad but I can't help but like T7 a bit more. Give them several weapon load outs and some ways to be extra mobile and move across the battlefield faster than 6 inches + run. Wraiths get some nerf to them in some way or form. Buff Monoliths. Not quite sure how but I'd like a large S9 blast that is ap1 in the center. Feels very high tech and nasty. Buff praetors in some way. Nerf the flying bakery, at the moment it's too good. Chronotech needs a buff, most of the hqs need a buff.

That's my ideas at least.

Disagree with Chapter Tactics for C'tan. They are actual gods and not interested in their mindless minions at all. They are tools for them, mere peasants, while the C'tan hold limitless power and do their own thing. They aren't leaders in a sense of someone leading a squad, they are leaders in a sense of slavers.

 StarTrotter wrote:

Ferros wrote:
A lot of superb ideas going on here - wanted to add a few of my own:

Option to take a wraith/destroyer/flayer Overlord/Phaeron with named HQ's of each.

C'Tan buffed - Perhaps including stat bonuses depending on loadout they come with.

Pariahs included as an elite, honor guard, or Lychguard-upgrade option.

Initiative of Lychguard/Praetorian/OL improved. If your bodies and minds are superior, why do they still react so slowly. This would also solve the problem of MSS being 90% a requirement and letting it be relegated back to an "artifact" option.

Cryptek stats buffed inline to Orpheus norms.

Flayed ones gain initiative (insane, Edward scissor hands monstrosities that move... like ... molass - ... es ...) and rules designed to get them in the middle of enemy ranks unsuspectingly. (Not too bright at 3:00 A.M.)

Praetorians lose the unwieldy rule on RoC.

Command Barges increase AV to 12. (You're housing the most important guy in your entire army.. and you have the resiliency of a flier.) Quantum shielding still pops easily, but at least now it makes sense and you're not fragile to the plethora of ranged dakka in 6th.

Chapter Tactics - C'Tan style! Since each C'Tan controlled his own mini-empire of Necron slaves, it makes sense that their would influence their armies. Why not?

I want to say another Canoptek unit, but that's getting to the point of being overdone. We *do* have very few Canopteks meant for battle though - excluding Orpheus I don't think any are specifically mentioned as being intended for outside the tomb. Hmmm..

C'tan buff. Give them T7 minimum perhaps? Admittedly they are shards so 6 isn't really that bad but I can't help but like T7 a bit more.

C'tan shards already have T7. They have 4 wounds as well.
The problem is that their invul is terrible; 4+ isn't going to protect much.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

Ferros wrote:
A lot of superb ideas going on here - wanted to add a few of my own:

Option to take a wraith/destroyer/flayer Overlord/Phaeron with named HQ's of each.

C'Tan buffed - Perhaps including stat bonuses depending on loadout they come with.

Pariahs included as an elite, honor guard, or Lychguard-upgrade option.

Initiative of Lychguard/Praetorian/OL improved. If your bodies and minds are superior, why do they still react so slowly. This would also solve the problem of MSS being 90% a requirement and letting it be relegated back to an "artifact" option.

Cryptek stats buffed inline to Orpheus norms.

Flayed ones gain initiative (insane, Edward scissor hands monstrosities that move... like ... molass - ... es ...) and rules designed to get them in the middle of enemy ranks unsuspectingly. (Not too bright at 3:00 A.M.)

Praetorians lose the unwieldy rule on RoC.

Command Barges increase AV to 12. (You're housing the most important guy in your entire army.. and you have the resiliency of a flier.) Quantum shielding still pops easily, but at least now it makes sense and you're not fragile to the plethora of ranged dakka in 6th.

Chapter Tactics - C'Tan style! Since each C'Tan controlled his own mini-empire of Necron slaves, it makes sense that their would influence their armies. Why not?

I want to say another Canoptek unit, but that's getting to the point of being overdone. We *do* have very few Canopteks meant for battle though - excluding Orpheus I don't think any are specifically mentioned as being intended for outside the tomb. Hmmm..

C'tan buff. Give them T7 minimum perhaps? Admittedly they are shards so 6 isn't really that bad but I can't help but like T7 a bit more.

C'tan shards already have T7. They have 4 wounds as well.
The problem is that their invul is terrible; 4+ isn't going to protect much.

I like the option for 'tiered' C'tan, where smaller shards are weaker but still potent MC's, but you can get up to like 3++ save C'tan with strong necrodermis 2+ at higher tiers.

Representing the smallest shards being not as many, versus the tiered where they have many shards gathered.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

Ferros wrote:
A lot of superb ideas going on here - wanted to add a few of my own:

Option to take a wraith/destroyer/flayer Overlord/Phaeron with named HQ's of each.

C'Tan buffed - Perhaps including stat bonuses depending on loadout they come with.

Pariahs included as an elite, honor guard, or Lychguard-upgrade option.

Initiative of Lychguard/Praetorian/OL improved. If your bodies and minds are superior, why do they still react so slowly. This would also solve the problem of MSS being 90% a requirement and letting it be relegated back to an "artifact" option.

Cryptek stats buffed inline to Orpheus norms.

Flayed ones gain initiative (insane, Edward scissor hands monstrosities that move... like ... molass - ... es ...) and rules designed to get them in the middle of enemy ranks unsuspectingly. (Not too bright at 3:00 A.M.)

Praetorians lose the unwieldy rule on RoC.

Command Barges increase AV to 12. (You're housing the most important guy in your entire army.. and you have the resiliency of a flier.) Quantum shielding still pops easily, but at least now it makes sense and you're not fragile to the plethora of ranged dakka in 6th.

Chapter Tactics - C'Tan style! Since each C'Tan controlled his own mini-empire of Necron slaves, it makes sense that their would influence their armies. Why not?

I want to say another Canoptek unit, but that's getting to the point of being overdone. We *do* have very few Canopteks meant for battle though - excluding Orpheus I don't think any are specifically mentioned as being intended for outside the tomb. Hmmm..

C'tan buff. Give them T7 minimum perhaps? Admittedly they are shards so 6 isn't really that bad but I can't help but like T7 a bit more.

C'tan shards already have T7. They have 4 wounds as well.
The problem is that their invul is terrible; 4+ isn't going to protect much.

I like the option for 'tiered' C'tan, where smaller shards are weaker but still potent MC's, but you can get up to like 3++ save C'tan with strong necrodermis 2+ at higher tiers.

Representing the smallest shards being not as many, versus the tiered where they have many shards gathered.

I'm liking this!

Yeah, some C'tan ranks would be nice.

Fluff wise, it could represent a C'tan that is closer to completion.

a C'tan with 1 shard - weakest rank

a C'tan with 2 shards - slightly stronger

a C'tan with 5 shards - everyone dies.

There is a precedent for this idea in the form of the Transcendent C'tan.
From lexi -

Transcendent C'tan's are C'tan's bursting with pure elemental energy. Each Transcendent C'tan is a collection of anywhere between a dozen and a hundred lesser shards, and its power far surpasses the sum of its parts.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/C'tan#.U1fpJ_mSzq4

Also, a couple of ideas for Lychguard

1) Swap their default loadout around. A bodyguard and defensive unit should start with defensive options

2) Change their wargear options to "any C'tan in the squad may replace his shield and hyperphase sword with a warscythe at +5 pts per model"

3) Add this option - "A lychguard that has taken a warscythe may buy sempiternal weave at +15 points per model"

4) Add this rule - Sworn to Protect "A unit of Lychguard becomes stubborn when an Overlord joins the unit. In addition, if the Overlord has the phaeron upgrade, they gain Fearless"

5) Add this rule - Champion of the Hierarchy "If any character models are in a unit of Lychguard who has been locked in combat, a Lychguard model may choose to accept a challenge instead of a character model. The character model may fight normally, without any penalty for delegating the challenge to an underling. Note that the Lychguard may not make challenges - that honor goes to their superiors."

 Sigvatr wrote:
Disagree with Chapter Tactics for C'tan. They are actual gods and not interested in their mindless minions at all. They are tools for them, mere peasants, while the C'tan hold limitless power and do their own thing. They aren't leaders in a sense of someone leading a squad, they are leaders in a sense of slavers.

C'Tan do seem to have a big impact on their followers.

Void Dragon - Pariahs
Flayed Ones
Etc.

It was just a thought, but, clearly they do play a role in how their "followers" operated.

Ferros wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Disagree with Chapter Tactics for C'tan. They are actual gods and not interested in their mindless minions at all. They are tools for them, mere peasants, while the C'tan hold limitless power and do their own thing. They aren't leaders in a sense of someone leading a squad, they are leaders in a sense of slavers.

C'Tan do seem to have a big impact on their followers.

Void Dragon - Pariahs
Flayed Ones
Etc.

It was just a thought, but, clearly they do play a role in how their "followers" operated.

Sadly not anymore. C'tan became pokemon. It's more about the necron lord nowadays.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, some C'tan ranks would be nice.

Fluff wise, it could represent a C'tan that is closer to completion.

a C'tan with 1 shard - weakest rank

a C'tan with 2 shards - slightly stronger

a C'tan with 5 shards - everyone dies.

There is a precedent for this idea in the form of the Transcendent C'tan.
From lexi -

Transcendent C'tan's are C'tan's bursting with pure elemental energy. Each Transcendent C'tan is a collection of anywhere between a dozen and a hundred lesser shards, and its power far surpasses the sum of its parts.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/C'tan#.U1fpJ_mSzq4

Also, a couple of ideas for Lychguard

1) Swap their default loadout around. A bodyguard and defensive unit should start with defensive options

2) Change their wargear options to "any C'tan in the squad may replace his shield and hyperphase sword with a warscythe at +5 pts per model"

3) Add this option - "A lychguard that has taken a warscythe may buy sempiternal weave at +15 points per model"

4) Add this rule - Sworn to Protect "A unit of Lychguard becomes stubborn when an Overlord joins the unit. In addition, if the Overlord has the phaeron upgrade, they gain Fearless"

5) Add this rule - Champion of the Hierarchy "If any character models are in a unit of Lychguard who has been locked in combat, a Lychguard model may choose to accept a challenge instead of a character model. The character model may fight normally, without any penalty for delegating the challenge to an underling. Note that the Lychguard may not make challenges - that honor goes to their superiors."

STOP IT GUYS! Y'all are making me want to build a necron army. Stop it now! (man I'm loving the ideas for the C'tan. It's kinda nice to see their derpy shard theme being updated to something rather different. I really wouldn't mind the concept of tiered C'tan. It'd certainly make them different. Perhaps the weakest is only T6, the next T7, the next T8 and some other upgrades. Or not, perhaps if you buy enough upgrades (shards) you get upped to the next level of a model? Dunno, probably a bad idea but it's entertaining to think about.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Why? Because they have no badass melee units (wraiths are closest) and NO good CC characters.

And thus you deserve to keep something because of bad internal balance on all those melee HQ's, and units?

No. This is bad cause and effect.

Before 6th edition CCB's were all the rage, destroyer-wraith combos, and even then you still have a unit you can plonk in there and use effectively as melee, and the best weapon at the cheapest cost ingame (warscythe.)

Try a better argument.

they dont have a dragio, mephiston, a calgar or even something as good as the terrible tyranid prime.

All of which are terrible now in 6th edition, should they be compensated because MSS is still awesome?

it was not an argument sir, so if you are suspecting such, perhaps you are reminded of some other situation - I was not trying to start one, but just offer an explanation of why they are in the codex - if you want to say its bad internal design, thats fine, if you want to say its good design, thats fine too.

However, your reaction is the EXACT reason I would wishlist them away - players who do not understand why they are there, or how to easily defeat them grief necron players for using them.

and defending the limited design in the book, is not a happy way to play...

it was not an argument sir, so if you are suspecting such, perhaps you are reminded of some other situation - I was not trying to start one, but just offer an explanation of why they are in the codex - if you want to say its bad internal design, thats fine, if you want to say its good design, thats fine too.

However, your reaction is the EXACT reason I would wishlist them away - players who do not understand why they are there, or how to easily defeat them grief necron players for using them.

and defending the limited design in the book, is not a happy way to play...

Players who do not understand why they are there, you don't need to be insulting, their purpose is pretty easy to tell.

To gimp melee beatsticks at a cheap, affordable cost for up to 0-5 units, or a DL and wraiths.

The best way to deal with them is simply by shooting that's all, don't take things that do well in melee and simply take buffers as the current meta dictates, because why go through the hassle of having your stronger, far more expensive beatstick that doesn't buffer the rest of your army beaten by wraiths and a destroyer lord with MSS?

When something is counter-intuitive to the point of countering quite a few things within the game, I dislike them, the skulls for Inquisitor's that are now flooding the field with anti-scout and infiltrators for cheap would be another such thing.