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This time I am serious.

I am awaer it wouldn't accomplish too much but still how community may bring their attention to thees issues.

GW reads forums... to make sure people are not sharing copies of the rules!

Emails never hurt! Remember, people white letters and send emails to politicians, and sometimes that gets stuff done. You can't be much worse off than a politician!

Well, you can do it if you want, i know that it doesn't work, at least there is no sign or anything that it works, at least 3 times a year someone propose a community letter or something, each time its the same results, nothing.

Anyway i'll be over there enjoying my copy of "the talon of Horus" that i finally got today.

You know what would be great? Getting the Eldar treatment and the codex whriters actually changing the current models we have to fit the game better.

Defilers becoming super heavy walkers for instance. Move them up to 6 HP and front + side AV13 like Soul Grinders. (Who should also become SHW.) The models are already gigantic. Give them the wraithknight treatment.

Soul Grinders could be gargantuan creature daemons though so they don't have to deal with haywire spam.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
You know what would be great? Getting the Eldar treatment and the codex whriters actually changing the current models we have to fit the game better.

Defilers becoming super heavy walkers for instance. Move them up to 6 HP and front + side AV13 like Soul Grinders. (Who should also become SHW.) The models are already gigantic. Give them the wraithknight treatment.

Um, no... Defliers/Grinders are on the larger size scale of things for 'normal' 40k models, but they're still tiny compared to the likes of a Wraithknight or Imperial Knight.

Here is a picture of a defiler and a Knight side by side...
While the defiler obviously isn't as tall it has a significant portion that sticks out in the back and then it has a very large span to its legs. While it is smaller than a Knight it occupies a bounding volume very similar in size. At the same time Knights aren't even the smallest superheavy. I realize they're just Forgeworld but some of the superheavy tanks they produce are very close in size to the land raider and defiler is certainly larger than that.

Whether you believe it should or shouldn't be its physical profile is a big liability in playing with it and in the least maybe it deserves something bordering on superheavy status even if doesn't get that.

Make the chaos lords, when they get turned into deamon princes, just get bonuses to their stats, thus keeping everything they have.
It'll actually be a boon! Imagine that!

Experiment 626 wrote:

 GoliothOnline wrote:
You know what would be great? Getting the Eldar treatment and the codex whriters actually changing the current models we have to fit the game better.

Defilers becoming super heavy walkers for instance. Move them up to 6 HP and front + side AV13 like Soul Grinders. (Who should also become SHW.) The models are already gigantic. Give them the wraithknight treatment.

Um, no... Defliers/Grinders are on the larger size scale of things for 'normal' 40k models, but they're still tiny compared to the likes of a Wraithknight or Imperial Knight.

Ill be as abrupt in my statements from now on. "Um, YES. Soul grinders and Defilers are as large is not slightly bigger than Land Raiders. The size proportions and comparisons to Wraith Knights (As most Eldar players and Knight Players now use as a the staple for judging whether or not something should or shouldnt be considered super heavy) Personally, I don't care for such thinking. Nor do a metric tonn of other people whom have wanted that change for a ridiculously long time.. So Ill just say yes, and ignore the fact you didnt bother comparing the models at all.

 GoliothOnline wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 GoliothOnline wrote:
You know what would be great? Getting the Eldar treatment and the codex whriters actually changing the current models we have to fit the game better.

Defilers becoming super heavy walkers for instance. Move them up to 6 HP and front + side AV13 like Soul Grinders. (Who should also become SHW.) The models are already gigantic. Give them the wraithknight treatment.

Um, no... Defliers/Grinders are on the larger size scale of things for 'normal' 40k models, but they're still tiny compared to the likes of a Wraithknight or Imperial Knight.

Ill be as abrupt in my statements from now on. "Um, YES. Soul grinders and Defilers are as large is not slightly bigger than Land Raiders. The size proportions and comparisons to Wraith Knights (As most Eldar players and Knight Players now use as a the staple for judging whether or not something should or shouldnt be considered super heavy) Personally, I don't care for such thinking. Nor do a metric tonn of other people whom have wanted that change for a ridiculously long time.. So Ill just say yes, and ignore the fact you didnt bother comparing the models at all.

I'd rather, Daemons especially, not end up with all of our best stuff slotted into the LoW category.
Grinders going LoW status would put them as the smallest by a large margine. Not to mention it would likely lead GW to decide to jack the price of the things up to at least $115 a pop!

If Chaos is going to get LoW options, I'd rather it be left to the likes of;
- Abaddon
- Lord of Skulls
- Named Greaters such as Kairos & Ku'gath (note: please GW, add N'kari finally for ****'s sake!)
- Silver Towers of Tzeentch
- Nurgle Plague Tower
- some kind of giant Slaaneshii pain engine

There's plenty of stuff from the background that's far more befitting SH/Gargantuan Creature status than the likes of Defliers/Grinders and Greater Daemons.

I am surprised that CSM have not been done yet, or rumoured to be soon. It might be that they don't sell so well so they are not on the fast track or that GW is giving them a very serious think.

Personally I would like to see them move away from being spikey marines and look to see:

- More mutations and use of mutations as upgrades.

- viable mono-god formations. The Khorne Daemonkin are, in effect, a big Khornate formation combining elements of CSM and Daemons into one.

- Changes to CSM. let's have them in grades from ancients (who would be very tough indeed and thousands of years old), through other grades down to recently turned.

- A wider range of heavy and special weapons for CSM.

Personally I would like to see mono-god armies as the norm. I grew up in early 40K when the gods were enemies and the two opposed combinations of Khorne-Slaanesh and Nurgle-Tzeentch were forbidden. I want to be able to field a mono-god army without penalty. However, I still think we'll see four god books and possibly no CSM codex, with a Khorne Daemonkin equivalent for all the gods. I would personally prefer that, then people could ally them if they wanted to.

Isengard wrote:
I am surprised that CSM have not been done yet, or rumoured to be soon. It might be that they don't sell so well so they are not on the fast track or that GW is giving them a very serious think.

Personally I would like to see them move away from being spikey marines and look to see:

- More mutations and use of mutations as upgrades.

- viable mono-god formations. The Khorne Daemonkin are, in effect, a big Khornate formation combining elements of CSM and Daemons into one.

- Changes to CSM. let's have them in grades from ancients (who would be very tough indeed and thousands of years old), through other grades down to recently turned.

- A wider range of heavy and special weapons for CSM.

Personally I would like to see mono-god armies as the norm. I grew up in early 40K when the gods were enemies and the two opposed combinations of Khorne-Slaanesh and Nurgle-Tzeentch were forbidden. I want to be able to field a mono-god army without penalty. However, I still think we'll see four god books and possibly no CSM codex, with a Khorne Daemonkin equivalent for all the gods. I would personally prefer that, then people could ally them if they wanted to.

I think we'll see CSM stay as its own book, there is too much not in Daemonkin to do otherwise. Your notion of mutations as upgrades would certainly push it in the direction I see GW refocusing it, as an undivided centric book.

As a second hand note I want new sculpts for CSM

If it hasn't been stated already I think a page like in the SM Codex that details Chapter Tactics. For instance, Iron Warriors could take some sort of siege rule or Alpha Legion could make units Infiltrate. That was one page in a codex that I think would add a lot for people who want something for chaos undivided or renegade legions. I think it might be worth adding in some flavor for non-founding legions like The Red Corsairs.

I think, like with all other recent codecies, there will be formations that may bring in the mono-god 'dexes we seem to be getting. I think getting something like the Skyhammer formation would be nice. Granted we don't have drop pods (and though I'd love some, I sincerely doubt they'll add them) but using Warp Talons who successfully used their blind on a unit can then assault. It adds a proper amount of risk/reward.

I did have a thought that I see mirrored here, which is that there will probably still continue to be a Codex: Chaos Space Marines since the Daemonkin books do not have all the named characters. If that were the case then Kharn would have surely been in the last one. I have been making the same jokes for years that Chaos Space Marines are into skeuomorphism and that is the reason they refuse to use anything new. I mean it's not like there are dozens of stories of traitors scavenging armor, weapons, or vehicles from the enemy. Again, as brought up, that could be easily written around by using daemon weapons or warp-powered weapons. I'm reminded of things like the Daemonshell from Apocalypse or the daemon weapons from the 4th edition book that changed depending on the mark you chose.

I'm not looking for an overpowered codex, just something that is interesting. Well, and maybe a few new sculpts.

Legion Tactics for those who runs a honest of the Mill legion Force.

Warbands tactics, for Warbands that are affiliated/indenpendant/nothing to do with the Legions.

I mean Marines have their Chapter tactics and Combat Discipline.

So their could be space for Legion Tactics, that grants rules for a particular Legion, but you won't have much room for anything not Legion related.

And then Warbands, wich would be more flexible and allow for more things.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Legion Tactics for those who runs a honest of the Mill legion Force.

Warbands tactics, for Warbands that are affiliated/indenpendant/nothing to do with the Legions.

I mean Marines have their Chapter tactics and Combat Discipline.

So their could be space for Legion Tactics, that grants rules for a particular Legion, but you won't have much room for anything not Legion related.

And then Warbands, wich would be more flexible and allow for more things.

I understand the desire for "Legion tactics" but I don't think they necessarily have to be legion specific... just warband tactics where each is characterized by a particular legion would be a step up. Otherwise I feel the only hopes for "Legion" tactics is if GW sets out to do them separate of all other Chaos marine armies.

This isn't a short term solution, but in the long run is probably the best bet for the sort of legion specific rules with the level of detail some would like to see: as FW progresses through the Heresy they'll eventually reach the "Great Scouring" and have legion rules that are close to what the legions of the 40k era are like. It seems to me GW and FW are pushing for more interplay and crossplay with their rules and models, particularly if rumors of plastic Heresy Era models are true... So FW covering the "Scouring" era is a good way to transition the rules together and walk people back into 40k after they're done covering the Heresy.

This is what I'm hoping for. Let forge world do the traitor legions with 40k in mind to some degree. We will be missing stuff like Defilers and daemon engines and so, but the infantry should be pretty darn close to what they are in 40k.
Then maybe later they can update IA 13 or a new equivalent to include those units in their traitor legion lists in games of 40k, but with the relic rule.
It would mean we still don't get cool warp weapons and all, but I believe this would be the best we can realistically hope for. Word bearers are well on their way after all.

Not saying GW can't do something cool, but the odds are stacked against them.

GW just has the agenda of everything being available to every flavor of an army regardless of what makes sense. This leads to a lot of bland choices and a handful of units that dominate their FOC and become the defacto choices, a lot of choices being untaken.

When it comes to Defilers and Daemon engines... If FW were to handle them sorta how they've done the Heresy... it'd make sense for those to be part of a Dark Mechanicum list that could be allied with any Legion force.

That would work, but I thought they simply didn't have any back then. The first daemon engines were defilers to my knowledge and those were commissioned by abaddon after he created the Black Legion.

Unless your talking about a separate book featuring dark mechanicum outside of the HH. Which would be awesome in it's own right.

Roknar wrote:
That would work, but I thought they simply didn't have any back then. The first daemon engines were defilers to my knowledge and those were commissioned by abaddon after he created the Black Legion.

Unless your talking about a separate book featuring dark mechanicum outside of the HH. Which would be awesome in it's own right.

Well the fluff has the Defiler show up in M31 around when Horus forms the Black Legion... M31 is also when the Great Scouring is going on... So if FW were to cover that era in a broad stroke, rather than battle by battle, than Dark Mechanicum and Black Legion would have them.

Hmm, well then here's to hope

Personnaly a Faq where you can give Legacies of Ruin to Deamon Engines would be nice...

I really enjoy the Idea of a Maulerfiend with hatred and prefered ennemy...

Yea that never quite made sense to me. Especially considering how possesion makes most stuff worse. And make possesion optional on dreadclaws. a 1/6 chance to instantly loose your dread is just not viable to me. Or make it so dreads can't be eaten or loose a hullpoint at least.

And if we keep possesion, I'd like to see possession for various gods. a Khorne possessed rhino should allow you to assault for example.

A Possessed vehicle should mimic the stats and rules of the Deamon possessing it.

Khorne; WS and BS+1, +1A, Furious Charge for example.

i never got why When you put a Deamon in a vehicle he becomes terrible, when they wants us to believe that this is Strong has hell...

I suppose it could do different thigns for walkers and non walkers. Although BS+1 would still be pretty nice for any vehicle.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
A Possessed vehicle should mimic the stats and rules of the Deamon possessing it.

Khorne; WS and BS+1, +1A, Furious Charge for example.

i never got why When you put a Deamon in a vehicle he becomes terrible, when they wants us to believe that this is Strong has hell...

Personally, the easiest/cleanest thing to do would simply be to add the 'Daemon of X' rule as an upgrade to the basic Daemonic Possession...