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Give spawn and possessed the Daemon special rule.

Also, Helbrutes and Forgefields should be MCs.

 kronk wrote:
Give spawn and possessed the Daemon special rule.

Also, Helbrutes and Forgefields should be MCs.

Maybe make demonic possession change vehicles into monstrous creatures?

Could be an interesting twist actually, like land raiders that are T7 with 4 wounds and a 2+ save.

That would finally be a reason to take Daemonic Possession.

But losing a possessed Land Raider to poison shots would be funny as feth!

riburn3 wrote:
Too much of the wish listing here is just asking for things SM already have which to be honest is kinda lame, might as well play marines and use some of the chaos models if you want similar marine rules, units, and items.

CSM need to be given their own distinct feel and style. Some of the ideas of warp based weapons, low grade tech, etc are fantastic. GW needs to advance the CSM story line more and invent some new unique weapons:tech for CSM. In 10k years you would think some of the heretical things CSM would have done is invent new and terrible weapons, both on a small and large scale. The only inventiveness GW gives CSM credit for is slapping spikes on old tanks. I understand there are going to be parallels between the two armies, but where SM are stuck in the past technologically, that restriction shouldn't apply to CSM.

Except for the part where they keep developing new an better toys XD

The rule could be a scale on front armour decides the toughness.

For example 10/11 = 5, 12 = 6, 13 = 7, 14 = 8

Then armour is determined by a vehicles rear armour

For example 10 = 4+ and 14 = 2+ (no rear between 10 and 14)

Give them demonic for 5+ invuln

GWs really messed up the rational distinction between MCs and walking vehicles... So where and when something should be one over the other isn't clear. The reasonable point of distinction should be does it have a pilot?-But then you end with Dreadknights and Tau Crisis suits where that's not the case. The other side is if it doesn't have pilot the controlling consciousness is intrinsic to the vessel... -And you end up with Daemon Engines contradicting that approach to a rational notion.

I think the Hellbrute is still just a dreadnought but when it comes to the different daemon engines I think GW should take individual approaches to each and allow some daemon engines to be "DAEMON engines" and others to be "daemon ENGINES"... Forgefiend, Maulerfiend, and Helldrakes are more the former than the latter while Defilers and Decimators are more the latter.

Here is a thoutgh.
Instead using chaos codex maybe CSM players should use space marine codex. Just cover everything in spikes.

But then people would complain that chaos has grav guns and that it isn't fair


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But then people would complain that chaos has grav guns and that it isn't fair

 kronk wrote:
Give spawn and possessed the Daemon special rule.

Also, Helbrutes and Forgefields should be MCs.

You Know that Possessed have the Deamon usr right?...

Or you are talking about Deamonic Possesion?.

I Also think that they should make a new unit type for MC that arn't creatures, but that arn't machines either, where things like Riptides, Wraithknights and Lord and Deamon Engines would fit.

Mechanical Creatures;
Treat it as an MC in regards of all the rules, add that Poisoin only work on a 6, and also that for every two Wounds they've lost roll a dice,
1; nothing happens, everything is working fine,
2) one of the machine weapons has a malfunction that the pilot try to repair quick, model cannot use a random weapon amongst his weapons for this turn,
3)A leg/thread/appandice of the machine is severly damaged, the model cannot Sprint anymore and can only move 6" max, no matter if he is a Jump type or beast type MechC.
4)An Arm/weapon system is completly destroyed, designe a random weapon the machine has equipped, this weapon is destroyed and cannot be used again.
5)The movement system of the Machine is destroyed and unrepairable, the Machine cannot move from where it stands for the rest of the game, it can only pivot in a 90* arc.
6)Core system damaged, the MC lose and extra Wound, if this wound was the last one of the MC, center the large blast template on the MC and romm to scatter, any models under the templates(friend&foe) gets a Str6 Ap5 ignore cover hit.

Models that have special rules to give back PC's to vehicles can give back Wounds to a MechCreature and repair a weapon destroyed and immobilized results.

He probably meant the daemon of X rules.

aka_mythos wrote:GWs really messed up the rational distinction between MCs and walking vehicles... So where and when something should be one over the other isn't clear. The reasonable point of distinction should be does it have a pilot?-But then you end with Dreadknights and Tau Crisis suits where that's not the case. The other side is if it doesn't have pilot the controlling consciousness is intrinsic to the vessel... -And you end up with Daemon Engines contradicting that approach to a rational notion.

There is a very clear line between them. Some things have a hull, and some things don't. IDK why it would be anything else.

GoliothOnline wrote:10) Land Raider variants that dont involve me sinking 240$ into a Forge World hard cover book that nails me on 40$ for import charges. Here's a thought, want to sell stuff reliably and make a profit off your models? Maybe include their DAMN RULES IN YOUR GW BRAND BOOKS.

Experiment 626 wrote:How about we not turn into 40k's version of over-clichéd, slap-stick Loony Toons villains?

On the other hand, Filch posts are the only ones in this thread that can be called ideas.

Nvs wrote:Especially if they introduced tiers to these marks.

For Example…
Renegade Chaos Space Marine, 15pts each, but come with a mark base. They’re also given the renegade special rule which is just fearless. For +5 pts, you could upgrade your Renegade Chaos Space Marine to a Veteran Chaos Space Marine. The veteran special rule gives you everything renegade does but also gives you something else. Elite cult units or chosen would have further upgrades. Possessed would have 2 marks from friendly gods (Khorne + Tzee or Nurgle + Slaanesh). etc.

Mark of Tzeentch
Renegade: +1 invuln save.
Veteran: +1 invuln save, and you can reroll all 1s.
Chosen: ???
Cult: Effectively makes you a rubric marine with all their special rules (which also need an update)

Renegade kind of shows you have only just started to get the attention of the chaos gods and their gifts reflect this. Veterans would be much older and have proven themselves to the chaos gods so their gifts would be more noticeable. Further still would be the cult marines or chosen.

Now I don’t know if giving your unit +1 invuln and the ability to reroll all failed saves of a 1 is fair or worth 5 pts, but it’s just to give an idea of where they could go with a system like this. Each unit is fairly expensive, but their special rules and mark make it worth it.

So I build a couple of squads of space marines, and paint them, and put them down at the deployment phase of a game. I'm kind of blanking on what about one of the squads would actually require that it can reroll 1s, which is different to the other squads that only get +1 invulnerables.

Rosebuddy wrote:If they pushed CSM to have a lot of extra kinds of consul-like champions as elite choices you could really get the flavour of searching for individual power at all costs that the faction is supposed to have. Especially if you also boosted aspiring champions to something that is actually impressive and interesting.

I think that is great. Any war band would be made out of a Lord with lesser warbands who work for him. I have worries about using them in an army. One, in other armies that have consuls or mini-ICs, the characters are not very useful because they end up having to join other squads as 100 point upgrades. If the entire army isn't built around their buffs, like 6th edition blood angels, then they are not really useful, like techmarines or lone wolves. For two, there isn't very much about elite ICs that makes it obvious that the warband is made of multiple smaller warbands.

It might just be easier to say that the troops' aspiring champions can upgrade to techmarines, apothecaries, sorcerors, etcetera.

Where would you get the idea that a former heavy weapon trooper would carry a heavy weapon? The havoc champions don't. I think the step up from being a havoc is commanding havocs, without being a havoc.

Lol! Dripping in sarcasm! I will still take it as a compliment.

pelicaniforce wrote:


I think that is great. Any war band would be made out of a Lord with lesser warbands who work for him. I have worries about using them in an army. One, in other armies that have consuls or mini-ICs, the characters are not very useful because they end up having to join other squads as 100 point upgrades. If the entire army isn't built around their buffs, like 6th edition blood angels, then they are not really useful, like techmarines or lone wolves. For two, there isn't very much about elite ICs that makes it obvious that the warband is made of multiple smaller warbands.

It might just be easier to say that the troops' aspiring champions can upgrade to techmarines, apothecaries, sorcerors, etcetera.

Where would you get the idea that a former heavy weapon trooper would carry a heavy weapon? The havoc champions don't. I think the step up from being a havoc is commanding havocs, without being a havoc.

I think you might be onto something with the Aspiring Champions in CSM squads. Being able to upgrade any Aspiring Champion to give the unit FNP or Stubborn, or be a level 1 Psyker would be very cool and useful. Havoc Champions could take an upgrade to give orders for better shooting to their squad like IG characters. Basically, a choice of different useful upgrades, depending on what unit the Champion leads. Instead of just giving them spiky equivalents of the SM stuff, they'd be made much meaner by the special rules of their unit champion, who works more like a mini-HQ. Very different from the way vanilla marines play, and VERY flavorful for the much more individualistic Chaos Space Marines. A CSM army would become a handful of stone cold badasses who've each excelled at their own chosen brand of badassery leading the less talented traitors to victory.

You are all complaing about DA wrong things.

You can have my "nifty weapons" as BA or DA, I'll take your ability to take CCW for +2pts and two special weapons.

Oh, and your terminators customization ability as well.

The book is a bit bad, but at least complain about the proper things.

I think if all of their warmachines could be upgraded to have the daemon rule for a few points, it could help a bit.
The boon table I think could use some slimming down. Right now it just has too much, and many of the options are down right silly. Bring it down to a 2D6 roll, like the warp storm, make the 7 roll +1 wound or something. Then fix up the whole "my black mace daemon prince just turned into a normal daemon prince" crap. And when a chaos lord goes daemon prince, they keep their rewards, similar to daemonkin.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I think if all of their warmachines could be upgraded to have the daemon rule for a few points, it could help a bit.
The boon table I think could use some slimming down. Right now it just has too much, and many of the options are down right silly. Bring it down to a 2D6 roll, like the warp storm, make the 7 roll +1 wound or something. Then fix up the whole "my black mace daemon prince just turned into a normal daemon prince" crap. And when a chaos lord goes daemon prince, they keep their rewards, similar to daemonkin.

Yes, please! "Oh, what's that? Looks like the Chaos gods have rewarded me for my faithful work as a Daemon Prince, slaughtering the enemy with my Black Mace! Excelle... What? My wings! My armour! Noooo!.... Khorne's sake, where did that mace go?"

Yeah...except that Deamon princes don't have the Champion of Chaos rule...

IT could still happen though. Tzeentch's boon of mutation allows it.


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Doesn't allow you to turn into a prince mind you... but everyhtign else is fair game

Yeah, but its true that the Dark Apotheosis if it stays in the next codex should be reworked like in WoC in Fantasy.

The Lord turn into a DPrince, keeps his powers, prior mutations he got during the game, artifacts and wargear(even if some become useless in the process), special rules, but he count as a kill for VP purposes.

thats something i really could life with.

its something that always terrified me, that my Kharn or Juggeraxelord turns into a DPrince, because they would be worse for obvious reasons.

Couldn't agree more. Ahriman or Abaddon are even worse off. It's so stupid.

Of course it would be even better if it wasn't random. The daemonkin version does this much better.

Some good constructive feedback in this thread imo, alas I doubt gw actually reads forums

Yeah they have a Thread-allergitities or something.

For them online communities and discussion boards are just a bunch of monkeys that like to bitch and fling feces around.

How i know its true?, because if seen and i've been bitching and whinning real hard since CSm codex 4th Ed on boards that by now they should know what people want, and what they don't want to see in a CSM codex, if they would be inclined to even just open one of those countless threads, and see how things really are, but still, here we are with what we have..., like usual.

Don't know if it's been said yet, but introduce some of the hh units too, rampagers, red butchers, cataphractii terminators etc. Legion specific units too, this would show a clear distinction between traitor chapters and the legion, chapters get things like land speeders and what the dinobots, legions get the hh legion units but with marks and stuff, that will cause the sale of more forge world, more money and make the chaos players happier.

Never happen in a million years.

Yeah always amazes me that SM finds Old-new gak in their vaults.

But we cannot have the true Old gak that would be usefull, instead we have the Old gak no ones wants...

It's always amused me that we're supposed to believe the moment a loyalist chapter goes renegade they go down to their armories lock up some of their gear and break the glass on the emergency stash of combi-bolters.

 Formosa wrote:
Don't know if it's been said yet, but introduce some of the hh units too, rampagers, red butchers, cataphractii terminators etc. Legion specific units too, this would show a clear distinction between traitor chapters and the legion, chapters get things like land speeders and what the dinobots, legions get the hh legion units but with marks and stuff, that will cause the sale of more forge world, more money and make the chaos players happier.

Never happen in a million years.

I definitely agree! I think that Chaos does get some of the HH vehicles but it needs to be extended to infantry as well.

It would be nice if we got a Traitor Guard codex, or at least got some rules for Traitor Guard in the Chaos Marines Codex.

pelicaniforce wrote:

Where would you get the idea that a former heavy weapon trooper would carry a heavy weapon? The havoc champions don't. I think the step up from being a havoc is commanding havocs, without being a havoc.

The idea is just that they've gotten really, really good at gunning things down after thousands of years of doing so. We've got all sorts of close combat characters with that trained-for-ages flavour so why not have a heavy weapons IC?


Giving aspiring champions the specialisations is a cleaner idea, though, and gives you more reason to take basic CSM troops.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yeah...except that Deamon princes don't have the Champion of Chaos rule...

Oops... so they don't.

Should we write a complain letter to GW?


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Should we write a complain letter to GW? Or better, wrtie down petition and get some signatures?

I dunno if it is sarcasm or if you're serious...