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Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin






What is everyone's thoughts on long fangs? I feel like our stratagems open up a lot of options for them that were previously ignored.

The ignore all penalties to hit might be the single best stratagem in our codex, as that is the name of the game in 8th. So you could have long fangs move, then shoot a flier, and not care about it at all. It also makes shorter range weapons a little more appealing.

The re-roll all hits or all wounds stratagem makes heavy bolters look a bit more sweet as well. They wound everything outside FW titans on 5s, and have a grip of shots.

Plasma cannons are even looking pretty decent. Sure it blows butt to roll all those D3 results individually. I guess it depends on if hellblasters do it better.

I'm magnetizing mine right now, and missile launchers are what I plan on kitting out for starters. Cheap and 2 profiles is pretty nice.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




So played a 2000 pt game last night vs my buddy who is going to adepticon next year. I took my wolves with a little guard backup (very little as i dont own many guard yet)

This was my list.

Spoiler:


Wolves Battalion -

Hq :
Rune priest : Warlord, Armor of Russ, saga of the beast slayer, runic staff, jump pack, living lighting, fury of the wolf spirits.
Rune priest : Tempest Wrath, Storm Caller

Troops:
Grey Hunters : 9 men, 2 w/ plasma guns, 1 w/ plasma pistol. 1 wgbl with combi plasma.
Grey Hunters : 9 men, 2 w/ plasma guns, 1 w/ plasma pistol. 1 wgbl with combi plasma.
Grey Hunters : 9 men, 2 w/ plasma guns, 1 w/ plasma pistol. 1 wgbl with combi plasma.

Heavy Support:
Predator Tank : Pred Autocannon, 2 side las cannons
Predator Tank : Pred Autocannon, 2 side las cannons
Predator Tank : Pred Autocannon, 2 side las cannons


Wolves Spearhead -

Hq :
Wolf Guard Battle Leader : two chain swords (for the lols)

Heavy support:
Whirlwind: Vengeance Launchers
Whirlwind: Vengeance Launchers
Whirlwind: Vengeance Launchers


Guard Batallion -

Hq :
Company Commander : chainsword and las pistol
Lord Commisar: Bolt pistol and power sword

Troops :
Infantry Squad : 10 men
Infantry Squad : 10 men
Infantry Squad : 10 men

Fast Attack :
Scout sentinal squad : 3 scout sentinals, each w/ autocannons



His list from best that i can remember

Spoiler:


3x leman russ tank commanders with battlecannons, las cannon, 2x heavy bolter on each
2x Company commander
1x tempestor prime
3 command squads, each w/ las cannon team and 2 snipers
4x troop teams w/ mortars and plasma gun
2x scions 5 men teams
Heavy weapon mortar team
2x basilisks
3x hellhounds
1x manticore



Game was interesting to say the least. We played the objective mission where you started with 6 cards turn 1, and each turn the max number of objective cards you could draw was -1.

Spoiler:


My plan was simple. I castled up in the center of my deployment zone, 3 whirlwinds in the back, rune priest and wgbl infront of them, 3 predators infront of that, with 30 guardsmen and the officer and commisar all spread out around them. I kept at least 1 model of everything within 6 of the rune preist. I outflanked the 3 grey hunter teams and deep struck my warlord. I put the sentinals out front and used their free move to grab an objective. This started me out with 3 objectives held (not that it mattered much, the one they took never was drawn for)

He was afraid of my 30 grey hunters with all that plasma outflanking so he made sure his entire side was "covered" from me getting in. After the game he even mentioned my outflanking forced him to deploy different than he was going to, so the fact they were just there waiting to come in already had an effect on the game before they did anything.

I received first turn and got some decent missions, i dont remember their names but the end result was due to missions "stacking" 1 hellhound dying ended up earning me 3 vp turn one. I didnt move at all turn one, i cast storm caller successfully and can say i understand why they made it cast value of 8. That one spell and the stratagem caused my entire army to go into cover and get -1 to hit other than the scout sentinals. -1 to hit 2+ predarors are tough to deal with! My predators and whirlwinds unloaded onto his lines. Between everything i killed 1 hellhound, brought 1 basilisk to 6 wounds, and brought a tank commander to 5 wounds. Even the scout sentinals did 4 wounds to the tank commander, go little buddies!

So not the most effective start but it wasn't bad. I earned 5 vp turn 1.

He then drew and had some crap missions. Stuff that could be done but not turn 1, like kill a character with one of his characters (actually pretty easy to do if he could get to one of my charecters that i had hidden since he had so many tank commanders) and domination (not happening lol). He unloaded onto my lines with everything he had, and when the smoke cleared he had killed only 13 guardsmen, dropped a predator to 2 wounds, put another pred at 9 wounds left, and killed 2 scout sentinals and dropped the 3rd to 3 wounds. It was amazing, his rolls were normal but that extra cover and -1 to hit was just so helpful! Also he spent way too much attention on the scout sentinals. They refused to die! He mentioned they were such an annoyance, they were weak enough that he didnt want to care about them but with those auto cannons stong enough that he couldnt ignore them.

My turn 2 went amazingly. I drew "take no prisoners" so i had to kill stuff dead. I had weakened his lines just enough so that i was able to drop 20 of the 30 grey hunters in and my warlord runepriest. My normal priest tried to cast the storm again and failed. I would say always put the storm and the dogs power on a defensive runepriest so you have a 2nd power to cast easily if the 1st fails. I didnt do that so i found myself with no way to protect my castle turn 2. I did try to go for a living lightning jump, with my warlord smiting 2 guards from a command squad leaving the las cannon team, but my lightning only did 1 wound so that didnt work like i hoped.

Shooting however went amazing for me this round. I started by firing a whirlwind at his heavy weapons mortar team and blew them away. A whirlwind with vengeance will totally wipe heavy weapons teams off the board each turn i realized with wounding on 2's and giving them only a 6+ save. 1 grey hunter team killed the wounded tank commander with overcharged plasma and fired their bolt guns at a command squad that was outside double tap range but still managed to kill the squad, other put 6 wounds onto a hellhound. Warlord shot his bolt pistol and killed the command squad team his lightning failed to finish. Other 2 whirlwinds killed the wounded basilisk. Weak predator still managed a hit with his auto cannon but did no damage to another command tank. 2nd predator finished off the 2nd hellhound the grey hunters had weakened. Final predator fired at another tank comander putting 3 wounds onto it.

So at the end of all of that i had killed 6 different things and earned 5vp from take no prisioners alone. With my other objectives at the end of my turn 2 i had 13 vp to his 3 and had utterly crippled his army.

His turn 2 went a lot better for him. He unloaded everything at the grey hunters that were now in his lines. He needed to kill my warlord who was the only thing with flight on the board. He cut through the hunters with everything he had then leveled a tank comander at my warlord and blew him away. Upon reflection dropping my warlord so close to the enemy knowing he had to kill him to earn anything was a mistake but i felt it was the proper wolf thing to do and i wanted to get bouncing living lighting to happen. Still after all of that he only had enough firepower left to kill the last sentinal and kill the predator with 2 wounds left.

Turn 3 i got defend 1 (which was the objective my castle was on) and secure 1. I dropped my last 10 hunters into his back field now that it was open, got the storm off again but was out of cp to cast the -1 (mission doubled cp usage at turn 3). My shooting this turn was not as successful, i killed some guardsmen squads and put 4 wounds on a basilisk.

His turn 3 he drew another bad draw, he did get take no prisoners, so he fired on the weakest parts of my list, the guards. Unfortunately even with all he had left he only killed 8 guards from 1 full squad, and killed 1 from a 3 man squad. His basilisk rolled and got 2 shots which tried to kill my weak predator and failed thanks to cover save. His manticore finally did something and hit / wounded my weakest predator but when he rolled for damage it came up leaving the predator with 1 wound. His remaining guardsmen tried to flashlight the last 10 hunters but only got 3. In the end he just couldnt finish anything off either and we called the game at that point since i got defend 1. That put me at 17 pts to his 10, he was making a comeback but the mission and cards were just against him at this point.



So what i learned from this.

1. Just adding the guard in gave me such a boost, their cheap ability to grab ground and generate cp is silly.
2. Take fury of the wolf spirits and storm caller on defensive rune priests. Totally worth it when your plan is to get that -1 each turn.
3. Outflanking grey hunters works. It seems to be a viable strategy.
4. With the castle with predarors / whirlwinds a wolf lord and wolf guard battle leader loaded cheap is probably a good idea. The reroll 1 to wounds came up quite a bit, but i missed reroll 1's to hit.
5. Predators are freaking awsome. I did forget about their stratagem though, i never take 3 so i forgot about it.
6. Whirlwinds were also awsome. My opponent even mentioned he wasnt used to getting out artilled and had not seen that before, its something to watch for. 6d3 str 7 ap-1 d2 total shots did a lot of work.


Obviously my list wasnt optimized, i need to work on it more, but i was very happy with how it delt with so many enemy tanks.



   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I've been having a bad itch to start getting some games in so I've been thinking a lot about what strategies I might use.

This got me to thinking on how a pack of wolves hunt and wondered if it would work well on the table as well. What do you think?:

Using skyclaws, swiftclaws, speeders, TWC and other fast units to get in and either weaken, draw off or at least tie-up some of the opponents units on the edges of the main core of their army

while the slower tough units like termies, dreads, etc. made their way up the board under cover of fire from tanks and longfangs to finish off the weakend units.

some scouts or droppods to get into the backfield and annoy the long-range hitters.

Finally bringing the footsloggers and what's left of the fast attack from either side to converge towards the center, flanking their army core from both sides.

We're gonna need another Timmy!

6400 pts+ 8th
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Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Does anyone have an explanation for the Helm of Durafast relic? It just seems so random and out of place in our Relics considering our character options.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Does anyone have an explanation for the Helm of Durafast relic? It just seems so random and out of place in our Relics considering our character options.

Yeah it's real stinker for sure. It kinda has use on a chaplain dreadnought, but even then if you wanted a relic for it you'd be better suited to the armor of russ or the relic stormbolter.

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Take fury of the wolf spirits and storm caller on defensive rune priests. Totally worth it when your plan is to get that -1 each turn.


Considering its cast on an 8 now how would you cast it every turn. Its going to cast less often than not? Even Njal only casts it 60 percent of the time. I believe it was nerfed just because of the Stratagem, so it would be more difficult to stack both of them.

Does anyone have an explanation for the Helm of Durafast relic? It just seems so random and out of place in our Relics considering our character options.


Its an old old Relic. From the before times. Its cool to see it in the book. Sad to see it be so bad.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin






So Keen Senses basically turns any unit into an anti air unit. Any ideas on Forgeworld goodies that could really make use of never worrying about negatives to hit?

The more I look at the stratagems, the more I feel that there are a lot of really useful strats. There are not as many absolute must have strats for awesome nasty combos like plague marines with the grenade stratagem, but they do seem like they have more that I will use on a day to day, instead of just 2 or 3. Now I have to resist the temptation of a cheap AM battalion for 5 more cp and some back field obsec.

   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Justyn wrote:
Take fury of the wolf spirits and storm caller on defensive rune priests. Totally worth it when your plan is to get that -1 each turn.


Considering its cast on an 8 now how would you cast it every turn. Its going to cast less often than not? Even Njal only casts it 60 percent of the time. I believe it was nerfed just because of the Stratagem, so it would be more difficult to stack both of them.
I'd bring Tempest's Wrath or Murderous Hurricane to get an easier power to get off for the Stratagem.
Storm Caller can indeed not be relied upon.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ordana wrote:
Justyn wrote:
Take fury of the wolf spirits and storm caller on defensive rune priests. Totally worth it when your plan is to get that -1 each turn.


Considering its cast on an 8 now how would you cast it every turn. Its going to cast less often than not? Even Njal only casts it 60 percent of the time. I believe it was nerfed just because of the Stratagem, so it would be more difficult to stack both of them.
I'd bring Tempest's Wrath or Murderous Hurricane to get an easier power to get off for the Stratagem.
Storm Caller can indeed not be relied upon.

Heck you could also just cast smite. Even if there is nobody within 18 to be hit by it you could still cast it for an easy spell.

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Yup. I would only take Storm Caller on Njal. Its just too unreliable for too little benefit on a normal RP. Even then I'd have to think about it. We got decent powers this time around.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
Justyn wrote:
Take fury of the wolf spirits and storm caller on defensive rune priests. Totally worth it when your plan is to get that -1 each turn.


Considering its cast on an 8 now how would you cast it every turn. Its going to cast less often than not? Even Njal only casts it 60 percent of the time. I believe it was nerfed just because of the Stratagem, so it would be more difficult to stack both of them.
I'd bring Tempest's Wrath or Murderous Hurricane to get an easier power to get off for the Stratagem.
Storm Caller can indeed not be relied upon.

Heck you could also just cast smite. Even if there is nobody within 18 to be hit by it you could still cast it for an easy spell.


You can't cast a power if there are no valid targets in range.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

 gwarsh41 wrote:
So Keen Senses basically turns any unit into an anti air unit. Any ideas on Forgeworld goodies that could really make use of never worrying about negatives to hit?

Not FW specifically but I can think of plenty of other uses for that Strat. Ignoring armies that have a -1 to Hit Trait, moving and firing heavy weapons, firing both barrels of combi-weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 gwarsh41 wrote:

The re-roll all hits or all wounds stratagem makes heavy bolters look a bit more sweet as well. They wound everything outside FW titans on 5s, and have a grip of shots.

Too bad we still don't get Grav Cannons as that would have been awesome!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/30 22:46:03


I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Too bad we still don't get Grav Cannons as that would have been awesome!


Yeah. Even the items they put in the Codex that never used to be there seemed like 'hey whats not selling well...'
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





Justyn wrote:
Too bad we still don't get Grav Cannons as that would have been awesome!


Yeah. Even the items they put in the Codex that never used to be there seemed like 'hey whats not selling well...'


thats not the case at all. most of the items put in the codex where eaither cases of "this is heresy era stuff, why don't we have it?" or filling unfilled niches.

remove the heresy stuff and whats left? land speeder storms? something which has long been a popular scout transport, the stormhawk interceptor which fills a air superiroity role (notice that space wolves didn't get the storm talen even though it's the same kit as the stormhawk?) the anti air tanks.. all stuff which is specific niches space wolves don't have. I see that as more wanting to get those niches filled without wasting design time on new things that'd make little sense anyway.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout





Florida

 Karhedron wrote:
 gwarsh41 wrote:
So Keen Senses basically turns any unit into an anti air unit. Any ideas on Forgeworld goodies that could really make use of never worrying about negatives to hit?

Not FW specifically but I can think of plenty of other uses for that Strat. Ignoring armies that have a -1 to Hit Trait, moving and firing heavy weapons, firing both barrels of combi-weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 gwarsh41 wrote:

The re-roll all hits or all wounds stratagem makes heavy bolters look a bit more sweet as well. They wound everything outside FW titans on 5s, and have a grip of shots.

Too bad we still don't get Grav Cannons as that would have been awesome!

Oooo outflanking /droppod/ jumppack wolfguard with combi plasma and lord support. Fire both weapons and overcharge. Nasty with keen senses. Could really hurt something big.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





remove the heresy stuff and whats left?


Which due to their limited kit will probably continue to be used as regular Terminators.

land speeder storms? something which has long been a popular scout transport,


Is it? I have literally never seen one on the table, ever. Maybe its just the local players. Its also redundant given how our Scouts work.

the stormhawk interceptor which fills a air superiroity role (notice that space wolves didn't get the storm talen even though it's the same kit as the stormhawk?) the anti air tanks.. all stuff which is specific niches space wolves don't have. I see that as more wanting to get those niches filled without wasting design time on new things that'd make little sense anyway.


I'll sorta accept the anti-air units. Although the Stormfang has always done quite well imo. But you are correct its not dedicated anti air. At least the Storm Talon I have seen played. The two anti air tanks.... not so much. Once I think. Again maybe its the local scene.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




No, its not your local scene, those anti air tanks just seem.... not that good for their job.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





Never said the stuff was all useful, in fact outside of land speeder storms, most IMHO fall into the "so niche it's not worth doing sperate kits, and they're not exactly part of faction identity but we might as well spread the love just in case that niche needs filling" but yeah, ALL that stuff is so niche it's proably low selling and GW figured opening them up would fill that niche in the spin off armies and likely not be a big issue.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




Too bad the landspeeder storm cant transport wolf scouts with a wgpl.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout





Florida

So our Stormwolf and Stormfang finally got Power of the machine spirit? I may have to by a Stormwolf now.
   
Made in fi
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon




Finland

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
So our Stormwolf and Stormfang finally got Power of the machine spirit? I may have to by a Stormwolf now.


Did they lose it at some point?

7000+
3500
2000 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




What are peoples thoughts on land raider redeemers, i have a model from an old edition where they were quite handy but im concerned in 8th the short range might lead to it being destroyed before ever getting a chance to use those sweet sweet flamers. My current consideration is while closing the gap use smoke launchers and a rune priest with cloaked by the storm stratagem for a -2 to hit to keep it healthy. Plus potential tempests wrath on a key target for an extra -1, or stormcaller for cover bonus.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout





Florida

 Weazel wrote:
TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
So our Stormwolf and Stormfang finally got Power of the machine spirit? I may have to by a Stormwolf now.


Did they lose it at some point?

I thought it didn't have it in the index?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




MagicCookie54 wrote:
What are peoples thoughts on land raider redeemers, i have a model from an old edition where they were quite handy but im concerned in 8th the short range might lead to it being destroyed before ever getting a chance to use those sweet sweet flamers. My current consideration is while closing the gap use smoke launchers and a rune priest with cloaked by the storm stratagem for a -2 to hit to keep it healthy. Plus potential tempests wrath on a key target for an extra -1, or stormcaller for cover bonus.

All Land Raiders variants are still bad, and you could use that-1 to hit on something more important like Long Fangs.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Until land raiders get either a significant price reduction or an increase in durability they will stay in the friendly game zone. They are just too easy to kill, especially in the new knight meta.
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





I think Land Raiders are still good for Wulfen though. With some Rune Priest powers they can make a good run up the table.

I have had my Stormwolf killed way faster than my Land Raiders in the few games I've played with them.

   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




 Malathrim wrote:
I think Land Raiders are still good for Wulfen though. With some Rune Priest powers they can make a good run up the table.

I have had my Stormwolf killed way faster than my Land Raiders in the few games I've played with them.



The problem is probably still not getting first turn against a shooty list. Then it will have to endure a round of shooting without buffs, then a round with them, before getting to where we want it.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Land raiders, stormwolves, all of these really awsome and big vehicles are too easy to kill. Knights get a 4++/3++ with strat invulnerable save and it makes them incredibly hard to kill like it should. But a single imperial guard heavy weapons team w/ 3 las cannons can kill a land raider (not likely but a lot easier to do than vs the knight). A single squad of dark reapers will make the landraider cry. Its just not a good spending of points.
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

How are characters on bikes / jump packs vs the index? No characters on bikes at all? Will my runepriest bike trigger a massive raw vs rai for what psykick power he can use?

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Rune priests on bikes can cast 2 powers, but only pick 1 from the new psycic chart. No one can possibly argue you cant use the new powers, the rules say pick 1 power from thr chart and you always use the most to update version of the rules.

But yeah, no characters on bikes.
   
 
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