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Tmh wrote:
No Ork or Chaos Daemon leaks? Seems the two factions I play haven’t been scanned from what I’ve seen

What I've heard is that there are no changes for Chaos Daemons except a point hike on LoC.

 Ravajaxe wrote:

 xttz wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Meanmurph wrote:
Anyone heard anything about ork points?

Well those are basically preview of codex. Most interesting part will be they show how much units are likely change as the points will be for the new codex rules rather than current one.

I read somewhere that Orks are unchanged, with no new units. It looks like the original plan was to have Sisters, TSons and GK codexes out before CA21 then release the new Orks book after.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
Any leaks on the Astra militarum changes

https://imgur.com/gallery/RTw125q

Thanks.

Only change that I spotted for the Astra Militarum : Ogryns 30 -> 25 points. They are fieldable now !
Super heavies, other tanks, etc... nothing changed.
The plasma pistol omission for the Tempesus Scions troop is still going on. It should cost 5 points, still somewhat free currently.

Haven't all the super heavies dropped 40pts?
Crusaders stay at 16pts despite them dropping to 11pts in the sisters book. Presumably have a nerf incoming in the sisters codex

Abaddon303 wrote:

 Ravajaxe wrote:

 xttz wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Meanmurph wrote:
Anyone heard anything about ork points?

Well those are basically preview of codex. Most interesting part will be they show how much units are likely change as the points will be for the new codex rules rather than current one.

I read somewhere that Orks are unchanged, with no new units. It looks like the original plan was to have Sisters, TSons and GK codexes out before CA21 then release the new Orks book after.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
Any leaks on the Astra militarum changes

https://imgur.com/gallery/RTw125q

Thanks.

Only change that I spotted for the Astra Militarum : Ogryns 30 -> 25 points. They are fieldable now !
Super heavies, other tanks, etc... nothing changed.
The plasma pistol omission for the Tempesus Scions troop is still going on. It should cost 5 points, still somewhat free currently.

Haven't all the super heavies dropped 40pts?
Crusaders stay at 16pts despite them dropping to 11pts in the sisters book. Presumably have a nerf incoming in the sisters codex

Yeah you are right. All IG superheavies dropped a whopping 40 points.

Oh, now I really want to see the CSM points, especially our fw tanks. Hell, I'd settle for the loyalist fw points, they'd be the same.

All leaks can be found here, enjoy: https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/noj7u0/2021_munitorum_field_manual/


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Just for reference:
Only DG change is discount for land raider.
No changes for orks, but the kopta rokkit typo sadly was reverted and nobz on warbikes are once again confused whether they are elite or fast attack.

Would you look at that. No GK Primaris.

So, what is essentially a flying Sicaran, with better BS, and a 5++ is now the same price as a standard Sicaran with two lascannons. But no CP tax. Good balancing there gw. At least the fw Land Raiders got the same buffs as the codex variants.

Huh. The new high lord of terra isn't a lord of war, and everything else was just dumped into the Sisters elite slot (bar the tank).

Didn't expect that. Was hoping the new chaplain would help fill the HQ void and expected the battlesuits to be Heavy.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Would you look at that. No GK Primaris.

Which is surprising to me. I thought the reason GKs weren't updated immediately alongside every other Loyalist Marine 'Dex was because they were going to do a new line of minis for them.

I'm glad they aren't. Keep GK GK, I don't want them to turned into just another space marine chapter.

Mutalith Vortex Beast went up by 10 points, I really hope that means they totally redid it, because 135 and its current profile was a bad joke.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I'm glad they aren't. Keep GK GK, I don't want them to turned into just another space marine chapter.

I was hoping a little for new kits, primaris or not (something along the lines of the chaos marine new kits). The old kits are showing their age (the knee squats make my knees ache by proxy), and the wrist-mounted storm bolters look like a 12 year old duct taped a tissue box to their forearms. And I don't even know what the proportions on those terminators are supposed to be anymore.

They're definitely fugly. But I'd rather have the distinctive fugly guys than just be rolled into the generic primaris cash cow.

Well, from what I can see of the reddit leaks, for CSM, its just cultists -1 points, Chosen -1 points and Landraiders -20 points.

I don't know if I should be worried that GW thinks CSM is just fine, or hopeful that this is the best they can do until they drop the CSM 9th ed codex.

BTW, cultists have been nerfed so much in other ways that a 1 point drop won't make them OP. I am pretty sure it won't.

Oh! I realised Venomcrawlers are now 20 points cheaper too! Ok, that makes them cheaper! Yay! This is one change that I like. They are not OP. Don't worry. A list of 3 venom crawlers will never win the game just because it had three. But at least now they are 20 points cheaper.

At least they are now the same value as the insanely much better at their job poxwalkers, rather than being more expansive on top of it too.

Cultists will remain useless except in rare builds where you can pop useful strats off them that just key off having a unit there, e.g. Alpha Legion.

Of course, CSM are borderline useless too except in rare builds, so you'll probably still cultists as mandatory troops choices just because both the options are so terrible, so why not take the cheaper unit that does nothing over the expensive unit that also does nothing?

Last time, when mortars were the rage, cultists were just giving free kills and free rear objectives to imperium. Now that I see much fewer mortars in imperium lists, maybe cultists can be taken if only because you might be able to hide them out of line of sight while still holding a rear objective.

CSM are probably still better in that role (rear objective holder) against all comers because they have 3+ armor and T4 so they at least won't fall over if anyone so much as looks at them. And you can't be sure what the terrain will be like.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Well, from what I can see of the reddit leaks, for CSM, its just cultists -1 points, Chosen -1 points and Landraiders -20 points.

I don't know if I should be worried that GW thinks CSM is just fine, or hopeful that this is the best they can do until they drop the CSM 9th ed codex.

BTW, cultists have been nerfed so much in other ways that a 1 point drop won't make them OP. I am pretty sure it won't.

Oh! I realised Venomcrawlers are now 20 points cheaper too! Ok, that makes them cheaper! Yay! This is one change that I like. They are not OP. Don't worry. A list of 3 venom crawlers will never win the game just because it had three. But at least now they are 20 points cheaper.

So chosen and CSM are now the same point value.. Strange but interesting.

 Therion wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Quasistellar wrote:
pretty shameful they can't even throw GK and TS players a bone, here.

I really wonder what they are having their people actually *do* right now. I know things move behind the scenes years ahead of what's released. Is *eveyone* now working on 10th ed stuff? They can't spare a couple people to errata or faq current edition things?

Throw a bone...like...a codex? Realistically we're looking at having them in July or August at the latest.

Your post will not age well.

Age of Sigmar June/July. Sisters end of July, Orks end of August/Early Sep. GK and Tsons both out before November ends.

Anyway, please don’t spend money on this ’balance patch’. The repointing is so far detached from real needs its unreal. Dozens of units need a 30% or higher pts cut, but GW gives 9% to some of the trashiest trash there is, and mostly leaves stuff as is.


No conspiracy. Just complacency.

Oof I bet you’re feeling stupid now. Since your post aged as well as milk.

Caprican wrote:

Oof I bet you’re feeling stupid now. Since your post aged as well as milk.

No need for that. We're all scrambling in the dark.

Caprican wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Quasistellar wrote:
pretty shameful they can't even throw GK and TS players a bone, here.

I really wonder what they are having their people actually *do* right now. I know things move behind the scenes years ahead of what's released. Is *eveyone* now working on 10th ed stuff? They can't spare a couple people to errata or faq current edition things?

Throw a bone...like...a codex? Realistically we're looking at having them in July or August at the latest.

Your post will not age well.

Age of Sigmar June/July. Sisters end of July, Orks end of August/Early Sep. GK and Tsons both out before November ends.

Anyway, please don’t spend money on this ’balance patch’. The repointing is so far detached from real needs its unreal. Dozens of units need a 30% or higher pts cut, but GW gives 9% to some of the trashiest trash there is, and mostly leaves stuff as is.


No conspiracy. Just complacency.

Oof I bet you’re feeling stupid now. Since your post aged as well as milk.

His post became a fine cheese? Why would that be stupid--sounds profitable.

Voss wrote:
Huh. The new high lord of terra isn't a lord of war, and everything else was just dumped into the Sisters elite slot (bar the tank).

Didn't expect that. Was hoping the new chaplain would help fill the HQ void and expected the battlesuits to be Heavy.

GW are loving their elite slot bloat. I was full expecting the Lord of Terra to be a Supreme Commander, not your generic LoW.


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 Jidmah wrote:
All leaks can be found here, enjoy: https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/noj7u0/2021_munitorum_field_manual/

I saw this too. Seems to be a lot of Inquisition units missing though. I saw a couple a the bottom of the Imperial Knights photo and one at the end of the FW Astra Militarum changes alas still not all their datasheets though.

Did any Inquisitor units shift in points at all?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Abaddon303 wrote:
Crusaders stay at 16pts despite them dropping to 11pts in the sisters book. Presumably have a nerf incoming in the sisters codex

I'm going to assume that GW will say their now equipped with combat shields instead of storm shields. Then the new melee shield Castellans (forgot the name) will have storm shields.

At this point they should just take Crusaders out of both the Sisters and Guard codex, then make them Inquisitorial henchmen again. They'd be alright as a Troops choice in an Inquisition detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cybtroll wrote:
The -1 to the Riptide is mental if you consider they just updated almost everything to be either 5 or 10 point.
That is quintessentially bad product management (not a novelty, but since is accelerating the last year's if becoming more and more relevant).

This, a 1 point reduction on such an expensive unit is just obnoxious. It shows that they looked at the unit, and only decided that it was worth bringing to a multiple of 5.

At least if they did a 6 point reduction it'd look a little bit less sus.

The fact they actually printed 900 points on Stompa again. What is the point of chapter approved if they're really just saying wait for the codex.

Imagine paying money for this book.

 TedNugent wrote:
The fact they actually printed 900 points on Stompa again. What is the point of chapter approved if they're really just saying wait for the codex.

Imagine paying money for this book.

the point is to force a balance patch down the competitive side of the game and make them pay for it.
Or atleast that's what it feels like.

 TedNugent wrote:
The fact they actually printed 900 points on Stompa again. What is the point of chapter approved if they're really just saying wait for the codex.

Imagine paying money for this book.

There were absolutely no changes to orks whatsoever. It has been like this for all factions that were about to get a new codices ever since they started updating point, and it makes perfect sense to do so.

 TedNugent wrote:
The fact they actually printed 900 points on Stompa again. What is the point of chapter approved if they're really just saying wait for the codex.

Imagine paying money for this book.

Good thing points aren't point of book.

No points are even in chapter approved...

Voss wrote:
Huh. The new high lord of terra isn't a lord of war, and everything else was just dumped into the Sisters elite slot (bar the tank).

Didn't expect that. Was hoping the new chaplain would help fill the HQ void and expected the battlesuits to be Heavy.

The Thigh Lord has less then 10 wounds, why would she ever be a LoW?
The general consensus is that she will be a Supreme Commander.

Also Zepherim have moved to fast attack to make room for the suits, tho I agree the Elite slot is still way to crowded.

Looks like TS/GK will be out before Orks as well, given the points values in the MFM.

 TedNugent wrote:
The fact they actually printed 900 points on Stompa again. What is the point of chapter approved if they're really just saying wait for the codex.

Imagine paying money for this book.

Would you prefer they changed a bunch of points and mislead you into buying a bunch of other models that might suddenly change cost again? Also it isn't like Orks are without options to succeed.

Tyranid-wise, Tervigons went down 20pts, and that's about it right?

Also, CSM Chosen have the option of a Thunder Hammer now?

Nurglitch wrote:
Tyranid-wise, Tervigons went down 20pts, and that's about it right?

Swarmlord cheaper and from FW the Diathingy went up.