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Thank you, dear Yakface, if I wasn't already married and could legally do so in my area, I'd marry you. Your free will wouldn't come into it.

Hmmmmm Wariths down to I2. That's a shame.


Is I2 still the standard accross the board then? Do Lords etc get a boost up to I3/I4?

Sasori wrote:
Sounds great!. Sorry for all the questions, but just for clarification, Can you make the sweep Attack at more than one unit you pass over, or do you have to choose?

Ummm, I was pretty specific in my post on the first page!

Flint wrote:
But a few things I just can't get used to:

- Initiative of 2 for a deepstrike unit with no firepower (wraiths)
- again the mishap problem that will occur , when the monolith trys to deepstrike. A massive tower of stone and/or steel gets lost, when it lands on one human soldier.

With that amount of terrain we're playing, I can just about to forget about playing a momlith.

Although its nice to have the option to Deep Stirke with Wraiths, just because the option is there, doesn't mean you have to take it. And if you do, you don't try to land right in someone's face (because as you point out they have no real ranged weapons), so you just use it to land out of sight and then use your Jump Infantry movement next turn to get into combat.

And with the Monolith, I'm not going to say its a super-optimal choice, but the range on the Gauss Arcs and the Particle Whip are both now 24", so if you have to (or want to) Deep Strike, then don't try to land to close to a unit and you should still be fine able to fire its weapons.

- the rotten new WBB concept

I think part of the reason its' a 5+, is the reduced cost of the models, in additon to the fact it looks like it can be taken against everything, without a Rez orb nearby.

- Initiative of 2 for a deepstrike unit with no firepower (wraiths)

You don't have to Deep strike them, they still move quite quickly. They can also take Pistols. Init 2 isn't that bad, considering they have 2W each, and a 3++.

- again the mishap problem that will occur , when the monolith trys to deepstrike. A massive tower of stone and/or steel gets lost, when it lands on one human soldier.

Again, you don't have to deep strike it. The Monolith still has pretty good rules, and has had a boost in it's offensive power.

IronfrontAlex wrote:This is probably a question you either don't know or may not be alllowed to answer but what are we talking in points range for these transports? IE: the Barge and Ark.

Chimera? Wave serpent?

Definitely up in the Wave Serpent range.

yakface wrote:

Sasori wrote:
Sounds great!. Sorry for all the questions, but just for clarification, Can you make the sweep Attack at more than one unit you pass over, or do you have to choose?

Ummm, I was pretty specific in my post on the first page!

Flint wrote:
But a few things I just can't get used to:

- Initiative of 2 for a deepstrike unit with no firepower (wraiths)
- again the mishap problem that will occur , when the monolith trys to deepstrike. A massive tower of stone and/or steel gets lost, when it lands on one human soldier.

With that amount of terrain we're playing, I can just about to forget about playing a momlith.

Although its nice to have the option to Deep Stirke with Wraiths, just because the option is there, doesn't mean you have to take it. And if you do, you don't try to land right in someone's face (because as you point out they have no real ranged weapons), so you just use it to land out of sight and then use your Jump Infantry movement next turn to get into combat.

And with the Monolith, I'm not going to say its a super-optimal choice, but the range on the Gauss Arcs and the Particle Whip are both now 24", so if you have to (or want to) Deep Strike, then don't try to land to close to a unit and you should still be fine able to fire its weapons.

Oops! I guess I misread it when I first checked it out! sorry for wasting your time.

See, now i need to find out how many points a WS is.....

Praxiss wrote:See, now i need to find out how many points a WS is.....

A base Wave Serpent with no upgrades is 10 points less than a summoned greater daemon in the CSM codex.

Hmmm. Thanks. Not as pricey as i feared but more than i'd hoped.

@ Sasori and Yakface:

Sure... I don't have to. With the wraith, Yak, you're right... good point

But for the Monolith.... it is not only the firepower... I think one major concept ist teleporting units right into where they belong... either to save them or to bring them up front. Therefore I like my monolith in the middle of the table. If I do not deepstrike him, it will take ages with the 6"... AND I have to take a terrain test EVERY round. Lets not talk about logic... a drop pad can do... also the big tyranid creature... why not leaving this as it was ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sasori wrote:

- the rotten new WBB concept

I think part of the reason its' a 5+, is the reduced cost of the models, in additon to the fact it looks like it can be taken against everything, without a Rez orb nearby.

Nah... no problem with the 5+. Its more annoying, that I cant't come back if the unit is un the run or wiped out. I am pretty sure in most CC situation, you won't have this save. with 4+ AS and INI 2 you loose a lot of CC becaus you fail the test... and run.

Where are you getting the terrain test every turn from? Here's what Yakface said about the monolith:


Monolith: One Monolith per FOC slot. It is a new vehicle type called 'Heavy' which means the vehicle cannot move faster than combat speed but always counts as stationary when firing.The Gaus Flux Arc on the Monolith no longer automatically hits every unit within range, instead each one fires separately and can hit four different targets (which can be different targets from the rest of its shooting). Each Flux Arc is now just a straight up 3 shot weapon (instead of a random number of hits). Particle whip is now just a straight up S8 AP3 24" large blast. Oh, and if the Monolith is put into Reserves, it must arrive via Deep Strike.

35 Point reduction along with corresponding nerf in invulnerability (were you not expecting that?). Still AV 14 and still has Living Metal (although again that only helps remove Crew Stunned/Shaken now). Can still Deep Strike but no longer has invulnerability from Mishaps. Has 4 Gauss Flux Arcs (which are now just Heavy 3 instead of randomly rolled). The portal can be used to either transport any non-vehicle friendly Necron unit (that isn't engaged in combat) through it or to suck enemy models within 6" to instant death who fail a Strength Test (one or the other can be done each shooting phase). No bonus to reanimation protocols is present. Although, at the end of the day, this is still an AV14 vehicle all around, which is pretty imposing in the current game. Unfortunately all of its weapons are really close range, which means it will also now tend to be in Melta range...


So i read that as saying it can only move 6" but counts as stationary for firing weapons, which means it can always fire everything. Am i reading it wrong? It doesn't say it is a Skimmer or anything that would normally cause terrain tests though.

There's no range change quoted on the teleport so i am assuming it can still teleport units up to 18". i would guess thsi would count as their movement as well.

At the end of the day, at least as i read it, it is an AV14 vehicle which can move 6" and fire off 12 S5 shots at different targets, a S* AP3 blast AND suck a model to instand death from 6" away. All for less than a Land Raider (i think). Sweet!



Edit: Also, if the old rules still apply (which i doubt) the Particle Whip can't be affected by weapon destroyed results either.

Well Init 2 pretty much makes Triarch Praetorians with the rod useless - 6 inch range to shoot and then they all die in CC before they get to strike.

Also, if the barge carries 10, and the min size for warriors is 10... where does unit attachment ride?

I can see lash whips being 100% necessary for wraiths.

I think my FA are looking like 3 heavy destroyers, 6 wraiths with whips, 10 scarabs

Heavy is looking like 2 doomsday arks, and monolith

I wanted praetorians, but I thought that they would have an init higher than 2. This means that with the rumoured points cost - terminators will annihilate them before they get to strike.

I think earlier in the thread Yak called the Monolith a "Heavy Skimmer".

He might have accidently dropped "Skimmer" from his summary

darkslife wrote:Well Init 2 pretty much makes Triarch Praetorians with the rod useless - 6 inch range to shoot and then they all die in CC before they get to strike.

Also, if the barge carries 10, and the min size for warriors is 10... where does unit attachment ride?

I can see lash whips being 100% necessary for wraiths.

I think my FA are looking like 3 heavy destroyers, 6 wraiths with whips, 10 scarabs

Heavy is looking like 2 doomsday arks, and monolith

I wanted praetorians, but I thought that they would have an init higher than 2. This means that with the rumoured points cost - terminators will annihilate them before they get to strike.

Warriors are supposed to be in squads between 5 and 20 in number, no 10 min.

But I agree with you on the incredibly low initiative of the entire army. I understand slow robots etc. but they got more personality, that and some things just LOOK faster now. Pteorians? those suckers sure look fast, wraiths? the finecast overlord? fethhhh.

darkslife wrote: Well Init 2 pretty much makes Triarch Praetorians with the rod useless - 6 inch range to shoot and then they all die in CC before they get to strike.

Way to jump the gun mutch where is it said that they are I2 I see Praxiss ask if this may be the case that the Wraiths I2 is across the board but no confirmation either way....never mind I'm an idiot and yes thats lame.

darkslife wrote:
Also, if the barge carries 10, and the min size for warriors is 10... where does unit attachment ride?

Have you read all the stuff on the 1st page which Kroothawk has kindly been compiling where the min/max unit size for warriors is quite clearly stated?

Praxiss wrote:Where are you getting the terrain test every turn from?

I assumed ...

reds8n wrote: Just to add with regards to the background elements that what we've read here tallies with the info from "Hammer and Anvil" the forthcoming ( December IIRC) SoB novel, which details the events when they return to the scene of the Sanctuary 101 massacre. Units, wargear and terminology mentioned here is used and referenced.

Well I'm glad they're not ret-conning that part of the fluff.

Wasn't the 'Lith a Heavy Skimmer (unofficially i suppose)before? Something along the lines of it being that big that if it was immoblised, rathe than wrecking like a normal skimmer, it settles to the ground and continues to fight from there.

Do normal skimmers have to take terrain tests every turn (i've never played with them so i have no idea how they actually work)

The low I on the Praetorians is a bit unfortunate, but as long as you don't aim them at squads armed with a lot of power weapons/rending You should come out on top.

Granted, from the Elites shown so far, I think I'd use a Squad of Lycheguard with Hyperphase Swords/Dispersion Shields With a Lord and Rez Orb.

Along with Two Triarch Stalkers. Those have really peaked my interest. a Heavy 2 Melta at 24' is Pretty awesome.

Praxiss wrote:Wasn't the 'Lith a Heavy Skimmer (unofficially i suppose)before? Something along the lines of it being that big that if it was immoblised, rathe than wrecking like a normal skimmer, it settles to the ground and continues to fight from there.

Do normal skimmers have to take terrain tests every turn (i've never played with them so i have no idea how they actually work)

Nope. No Idea why that would be the case. Unless of course there's difficult terrain everywhere on the table...which is stupid.

I'm thinking of converting up my own Triarch Stalker using this as a guide

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL169/1054762/9220089/322215967.jpg

It won't match the fluff exactly, but should do the job.

darkslife wrote:I'm thinking of converting up my own Triarch Stalker using this as a guide

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL169/1054762/9220089/322215967.jpg

It won't match the fluff exactly, but should do the job.

Wow, that looks great though! I bet there will be a lot of leftover Cannon bits from Ghost Arks/Command barges and what not, so I'm sure there will be some badass conversions going on!

OK, this, is, I freely admit, kind of a stupid question. I can't imagine that this would not have been mentioned by Yak if so, but I'll ask anyway, after reading the first post:

Do either the Flayed Ones or Wraith's bare claws count as power weapons?

Wraiths get Rending apparently. Not sure about the Flayed Ones though.

Are Wraiths still S6 with 3 attacks?

Ouze wrote:OK, this, is, I freely admit, kind of a stupid question. I can't imagine that this would not have been mentioned by Yak if so, but I'll ask anyway, after reading the first post:

Do either the Flayed Ones or Wraith's bare claws count as power weapons?

Wraiths get Rending, and it looks like the Flayed ones just get bare attacks.

EDIT:

Are Wraiths still S6 with 3 attacks

Yes.

Doesn't really help to much if they're slower than the things they're meant to chop

Sasori wrote:

Ouze wrote:OK, this, is, I freely admit, kind of a stupid question. I can't imagine that this would not have been mentioned by Yak if so, but I'll ask anyway, after reading the first post:

Do either the Flayed Ones or Wraith's bare claws count as power weapons?

Wraiths get Rending, and it looks like the Flayed ones just get bare attacks.

Which means there's no reason whatsoever to buy those god awful new Flayed One models

IronfrontAlex wrote:Doesn't really help to much if they're slower than the things they're meant to chop

And that is why they have 3++ saves with 2 wounds each, and can be taken in groups of six. With Resurrection Protocols.
And possibly lash whips.

Another stupid question - do they have assault grenades?

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:Doesn't really help to much if they're slower than the things they're meant to chop

And that is why they have 3++ saves with 2 wounds each, and can be taken in groups of six. With Resurrection Protocols.
And possibly lash whips.

Another stupid question - do they have assault grenades?

They ignore terrain, why would they need assault grenades?