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Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Fortunately, since the product isn't limited, you just need to return it and wait for replacement.
   
Made in gb
Darkwolf



West Sussex, UK

Cronch wrote:
Fortunately, since the product isn't limited, you just need to return it and wait for replacement.


Unfortunately I had already started to build the units before noticing the damage on the bosses sprue so can’t return.
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







Cronch wrote:
Fortunately, since the product isn't limited, you just need to return it and wait for replacement.


Yep. Which makes buying premium and limited priced boxes sets even more attractive.

   
Made in ie
Been Around the Block





Cork Ireland

Can i ask did everyone get their refunds from Toatal Cards in the end, mine still hasnt come through. I'm sure it will but I might hassle them a bit anyways
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Debit Card refunds can take up to 10 days to arrive in your account.


Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Darkwolf



West Sussex, UK

For those still after a copy, Zatu apparently have in stock discounted with next day delivery (UK) -

https://www.board-game.co.uk/product/warhammer-quest-cursed-city/
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Teesside

Thanks Aeneades! I've ordered one.

My painting & modelling blog: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/699224.page

Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
http://serpentking.com/

 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran



South East London

Aeneades wrote:
Cronch wrote:
Fortunately, since the product isn't limited, you just need to return it and wait for replacement.


Unfortunately I had already started to build the units before noticing the damage on the bosses sprue so can’t return.


That's not true, you should still be able to return it as long as it's within a "reasonable" time frame (usually around 30 days but depends on the product). It's not something you would have necessarily noticed right away and if the product was faulty at the time of purchase you are entitled to a refund or replacement. Being used does not affect your statutory rights.

"Dig in and wait for Winter" 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

StraightSilver wrote:
Aeneades wrote:
Cronch wrote:
Fortunately, since the product isn't limited, you just need to return it and wait for replacement.


Unfortunately I had already started to build the units before noticing the damage on the bosses sprue so can’t return.


That's not true, you should still be able to return it as long as it's within a "reasonable" time frame (usually around 30 days but depends on the product). It's not something you would have necessarily noticed right away and if the product was faulty at the time of purchase you are entitled to a refund or replacement. Being used does not affect your statutory rights.


At the same time there's no way to prove it was faulty at time of purchase when you've got built stuff. To any store owner it would look "more" like you'd started building and lost a part.
At least if nothing was built there's a greater chance that a store will believe you.


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





It’s damage on Sprue.
They have to take it at face value.
Either way they’ll get the money back so can accept it for the goodwill of keeping the customer happy.

They may not even have to send faulty goods back depending on GW policy.
Some companies just say to destroy them (which I guess the store could then keep as a personal copy, store demo or for cheeky sales on eBay broken down. I wouldn’t ask).
However, knowing GW they’d want everything returned of faulty.
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Professional




Nottingham, England

For faults within 90 days of purchase the onus is on the retsiker to prove it want like that when you bought it.

GW definitely changed policy , probably because it was being exploited , so now they’ll only deal with issues if you bought from GW online or in store. Everything else is back to the retailer.

Tbf what GW is going is U.K. law eg retailer is responsible for faults and issues BUT wargames products are seemingly have far lower quality control than other hobby kits.
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




Welp.

Store #1 didn't have any because they didn't order any.

Store #2 didn't have any, either. Ordered 24, got 0, and the rather irritated store owner claimed his GW rep spent the last week or so avoiding his calls. And apparently did the same with Piety and Pain.

Vaguely curious if store #3 will pan out, but this evening's vaccination kinda takes precedence. Will see if I'm up to it tomorrow.

Either way, after that I'm giving up. If GW wants to make selling me products difficult, I can accommodate that desire.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Yeah utterly idiotic logic... It seems they really don't like selling their stuff to people.
Guess once again I will order something cool that I don't need to go on the pile of shame from Mierce *shrug*

Or maybe check out inifinity and finaly get soemthing from those guys

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Argive wrote:

Or maybe check out inifinity and finaly get soemthing from those guys

It does have cheaper models than GW
   
Made in us
Auspicious Skink Shaman




Xalapa, Veracruz, Mexico

Cronch wrote:
Fortunately, since the product isn't limited, you just need to return it and wait for replacement.


Is it tho? Because I really wanted my Silver Tower kit and didn't had chance to grab one. And some BB teams are starting to disappear from the webstore too...
   
Made in us
Poisonous Tomb Scorpion





Went by my FLGS today and decided to buy a copy on a whim. Last weekend I noticed that a lot of my RPG/board game friends were asking me about Warhammer. They aren't the type to ever play 40K or AoS due to money, time and school. But I think I can introduce them through stuff like this and then we can have a shared experience.

I have to say these kits are amazeballs. I'd planned on buying Soulblight when they hit later in the year, and I'm really glad I picked up this box. It looks to not only be a fun game, in and of itself, but also these models will be great in my army for pose variation!

For the complainers, you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular, combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world? Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




 Togusa wrote:

For the complainers, you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular, combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world? Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.


Shop I was in today said the opposite, so we'll see.
Either way, its a crappy move by GW not to have a definitive answer (actually, not to have had a definitive answer before preorders started).


you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular,

In business, this is called 'a failure.' If a company can't predict their customer base and predict demand (especially after a couple dozen boxed sets of this type, the vast majority of which sell out), they're doing something terribly wrong.

And again, if it was something out of their control that went wrong (inexplicable problems with the 'cardboard company' or whatever), they still should have said.

They didn't have any problems actually admitting issues with the half-dozen or so items that got lost on the way to Austrailia, for example (like the primaris bike chaplain).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 03:21:20


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Domican wrote:
Can i ask did everyone get their refunds from Toatal Cards in the end, mine still hasnt come through. I'm sure it will but I might hassle them a bit anyways


Mine came through to my account on Wednesday morning, just give it a little time, they at least seem fair about handling refunds.
   
Made in us
Poisonous Tomb Scorpion





Voss wrote:
 Togusa wrote:

For the complainers, you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular, combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world? Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.


Shop I was in today said the opposite, so we'll see.
Either way, its a crappy move by GW not to have a definitive answer (actually, not to have had a definitive answer before preorders started).


you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular,

In business, this is called 'a failure.' If a company can't predict their customer base and predict demand (especially after a couple dozen boxed sets of this type, the vast majority of which sell out), they're doing something terribly wrong.

And again, if it was something out of their control that went wrong (inexplicable problems with the 'cardboard company' or whatever), they still should have said.

They didn't have any problems actually admitting issues with the half-dozen or so items that got lost on the way to Austrailia, for example (like the primaris bike chaplain).


I don't think that will fly in the age of Pandemic. I just read an article in my home town newspaper about one of our local restaurants losing 8K USD in food because business had been booming, and so they set their order in at 4:13PM local time (cutoff was at 5PM). At 6PM that night the local government announced that 70+ people in the area had tested positive that day and that business would have to close for two weeks. The owner ended up throwing out nearly 6K of that food order because no one was there to support it. That same thing can happen in gaming hobbies.

What I am saying here is that you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Sales statistics in all areas of business are nuts right now, some things are selling like hotcakes, others are sitting on shelves until they rot (if perishable). I'm not trying to harp on you, but we all need to try and be more understanding and patient during these times. One thing we as players can do is help each other find these products. I'll ask my local store tomorrow when I stop by again if they have extras.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Togusa wrote:
For the complainers...
This outta be nuanced...

 Togusa wrote:
... you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular...
For real? They made a whole new separate website for it, and hyped it up. Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, think GW went into the design and production of Cursed City thinking "Well, this won't be that popular, but let's do it anyway!".

And it is popular. Stores around the world were selling out within minutes of pre-orders going live. GW themselves made a bit of tat (the key) in order to entice people into buying directly from them rather than 3rd parties, and it worked, because the key sold out before the game did, and then it sold out.

"[T]hey didn't think [it] was going to be this popular..."

Are you for real?

 Togusa wrote:
... combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world?
Which has literally nothing - zip, nada, zero - to do with GW's lack of communication as to whether this is an ongoing product, or a one-and-done.

 Togusa wrote:
Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.
It's been a week and a half since pre-orders started. Many people already have their copies. That's more than enough time for GW to say something.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/15 03:36:19


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in au
Freaky Flayed One



Sydney, Australia

 Domican wrote:
Can i ask did everyone get their refunds from Toatal Cards in the end, mine still hasnt come through. I'm sure it will but I might hassle them a bit anyways

Still waiting here, too. They said 24-48 hours, but that has well passed.
   
Made in ae
Fresh-Faced New User




hvg3akaek wrote:
 Domican wrote:
Can i ask did everyone get their refunds from Toatal Cards in the end, mine still hasnt come through. I'm sure it will but I might hassle them a bit anyways

Still waiting here, too. They said 24-48 hours, but that has well passed.


My refund came through but they bounced mine as flagged by the CC company (which I don't believe) and refunded on that basis.
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





Let's be honest : GW's current communication on future availability of Cursed City isn't appropriate.

It sure is in the same line than their marketing section certainly wants it (playing on FOMO to sell the most), but that's not an excuse at all. Merely an explanation of why it is that way.

Customers shouldn't be just hoping it will come back later. They should be knowing if that's the case or not, not "if" or "maybe". GW absolutely knows if they want to produce more Cursed City boxes (or make expansions), or if it was a "one-shot" kind of sale. They just don't want to share that information clearly right now - and that's wrong for customers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 07:14:27


 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






I quite agree.

It also opens up the market for Filthy Scalpers. Not only selling the whole set at what might be a needlessly inflated price (they’d have a hard job taking a scalp if it’s just a matter of awaiting restock), but splitting them, reducing the number of complete sets in the world.

Confirm it will be back, and much of the motivation driving people to scalpers falls away.

And yes, I really, really really do hate Scalpers.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





 lord_blackfang wrote:
To be fair, it's absolutely ridiculus the onus for fixing obvious manufacturer defects is on the very last link in the retail chain by default.

I disagree, as it's this final link in the chain that has a relationship with the customer, and all they are required to do is refund the purchase, not fix the fault. If I bought a computer from ABC computers and it turns out to be faulty, I'd much rather take it back to ABC and get a refund rather than take it back to ABC and have the manager tell me "Sorry Guv, I have the money you paid me and this isn't my problem anymore, you'll have to get in touch with Dell incorporated and take it up with them".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 08:14:09


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





JWBS wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
To be fair, it's absolutely ridiculus the onus for fixing obvious manufacturer defects is on the very last link in the retail chain by default.

I disagree, as it's this final link in the chain that has a relationship with the customer, and all they are required to do is refund the purchase, not fix the fault. If I bought a computer from ABC computers and it turns out to be faulty, I'd much rather take it back to ABC and get a refund rather than take it back to ABC and have the manager tell me "Sorry Guv, I have the money you paid me and this isn't my problem anymore, you'll have to get in touch with Dell incorporated and take it up with them".


I guess from a customer perspective it depends on the circumstances, in your example, where a replacement item should be readily available, yes, I can see most people would prefer to get the refund, then they can just buy a replacement straight away, but I can see why for something that is no longer (currently) available that there may be a benefit of dealing with the manufacturer who may be more likely to be able to replace the item, or just the damaged part.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Togusa wrote:
Voss wrote:
 Togusa wrote:

For the complainers, you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular, combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world? Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.


Shop I was in today said the opposite, so we'll see.
Either way, its a crappy move by GW not to have a definitive answer (actually, not to have had a definitive answer before preorders started).


you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular,

In business, this is called 'a failure.' If a company can't predict their customer base and predict demand (especially after a couple dozen boxed sets of this type, the vast majority of which sell out), they're doing something terribly wrong.

And again, if it was something out of their control that went wrong (inexplicable problems with the 'cardboard company' or whatever), they still should have said.

They didn't have any problems actually admitting issues with the half-dozen or so items that got lost on the way to Austrailia, for example (like the primaris bike chaplain).


I don't think that will fly in the age of Pandemic. I just read an article in my home town newspaper about one of our local restaurants losing 8K USD in food because business had been booming, and so they set their order in at 4:13PM local time (cutoff was at 5PM). At 6PM that night the local government announced that 70+ people in the area had tested positive that day and that business would have to close for two weeks. The owner ended up throwing out nearly 6K of that food order because no one was there to support it. That same thing can happen in gaming hobbies.

What I am saying here is that you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Sales statistics in all areas of business are nuts right now, some things are selling like hotcakes, others are sitting on shelves until they rot (if perishable). I'm not trying to harp on you, but we all need to try and be more understanding and patient during these times. One thing we as players can do is help each other find these products. I'll ask my local store tomorrow when I stop by again if they have extras.


If they’d only put the order in 2 hours before surely they’d be able to contact and cancel?
Side note really, but it surprises me that they’d be that ruined by a matter of hours not being able to do anything.
   
Made in us
Poisonous Tomb Scorpion





Danny76 wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
Voss wrote:
 Togusa wrote:

For the complainers, you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular, combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world? Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.


Shop I was in today said the opposite, so we'll see.
Either way, its a crappy move by GW not to have a definitive answer (actually, not to have had a definitive answer before preorders started).


you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular,

In business, this is called 'a failure.' If a company can't predict their customer base and predict demand (especially after a couple dozen boxed sets of this type, the vast majority of which sell out), they're doing something terribly wrong.

And again, if it was something out of their control that went wrong (inexplicable problems with the 'cardboard company' or whatever), they still should have said.

They didn't have any problems actually admitting issues with the half-dozen or so items that got lost on the way to Austrailia, for example (like the primaris bike chaplain).


I don't think that will fly in the age of Pandemic. I just read an article in my home town newspaper about one of our local restaurants losing 8K USD in food because business had been booming, and so they set their order in at 4:13PM local time (cutoff was at 5PM). At 6PM that night the local government announced that 70+ people in the area had tested positive that day and that business would have to close for two weeks. The owner ended up throwing out nearly 6K of that food order because no one was there to support it. That same thing can happen in gaming hobbies.

What I am saying here is that you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Sales statistics in all areas of business are nuts right now, some things are selling like hotcakes, others are sitting on shelves until they rot (if perishable). I'm not trying to harp on you, but we all need to try and be more understanding and patient during these times. One thing we as players can do is help each other find these products. I'll ask my local store tomorrow when I stop by again if they have extras.


If they’d only put the order in 2 hours before surely they’d be able to contact and cancel?
Side note really, but it surprises me that they’d be that ruined by a matter of hours not being able to do anything.


The article said no. Now mind you, I don't know if that's how things work with GW. But it illustrates the point of just how volatile even ordering things are right now. My FLGS and Local Warhammer store both have terrible times getting even 30% of what they order in during a given week.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
For the complainers...
This outta be nuanced...

 Togusa wrote:
... you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular...
For real? They made a whole new separate website for it, and hyped it up. Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, think GW went into the design and production of Cursed City thinking "Well, this won't be that popular, but let's do it anyway!".

And it is popular. Stores around the world were selling out within minutes of pre-orders going live. GW themselves made a bit of tat (the key) in order to entice people into buying directly from them rather than 3rd parties, and it worked, because the key sold out before the game did, and then it sold out.

"[T]hey didn't think [it] was going to be this popular..."

Are you for real?

 Togusa wrote:
... combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world?
Which has literally nothing - zip, nada, zero - to do with GW's lack of communication as to whether this is an ongoing product, or a one-and-done.

 Togusa wrote:
Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.
It's been a week and a half since pre-orders started. Many people already have their copies. That's more than enough time for GW to say something.




Yes, I am for real. Because I heard that exact quote over the phone between my local store owner and his GW rep. The rep said "We had no idea that there would be THIS much of an interest in the product and we're scrambling to fill orders as we speak. I know that you ordered 10 boxes, however I can only send you four." And one hour later my local store owner informed us that they had called and dropped him to three copies instead of the promised 4. I believe they didn't expect this level of interest in the game.

Now, as for communication, I don't know. I don't even know what problem you are referring to. What did they not communicate?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 10:32:11


 
   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran




Germany

Spoiler:
 Togusa wrote:
Danny76 wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
Voss wrote:
 Togusa wrote:

For the complainers, you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular, combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world? Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.


Shop I was in today said the opposite, so we'll see.
Either way, its a crappy move by GW not to have a definitive answer (actually, not to have had a definitive answer before preorders started).


you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular,

In business, this is called 'a failure.' If a company can't predict their customer base and predict demand (especially after a couple dozen boxed sets of this type, the vast majority of which sell out), they're doing something terribly wrong.

And again, if it was something out of their control that went wrong (inexplicable problems with the 'cardboard company' or whatever), they still should have said.

They didn't have any problems actually admitting issues with the half-dozen or so items that got lost on the way to Austrailia, for example (like the primaris bike chaplain).


I don't think that will fly in the age of Pandemic. I just read an article in my home town newspaper about one of our local restaurants losing 8K USD in food because business had been booming, and so they set their order in at 4:13PM local time (cutoff was at 5PM). At 6PM that night the local government announced that 70+ people in the area had tested positive that day and that business would have to close for two weeks. The owner ended up throwing out nearly 6K of that food order because no one was there to support it. That same thing can happen in gaming hobbies.

What I am saying here is that you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Sales statistics in all areas of business are nuts right now, some things are selling like hotcakes, others are sitting on shelves until they rot (if perishable). I'm not trying to harp on you, but we all need to try and be more understanding and patient during these times. One thing we as players can do is help each other find these products. I'll ask my local store tomorrow when I stop by again if they have extras.


If they’d only put the order in 2 hours before surely they’d be able to contact and cancel?
Side note really, but it surprises me that they’d be that ruined by a matter of hours not being able to do anything.


The article said no. Now mind you, I don't know if that's how things work with GW. But it illustrates the point of just how volatile even ordering things are right now. My FLGS and Local Warhammer store both have terrible times getting even 30% of what they order in during a given week.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
For the complainers...
This outta be nuanced...

 Togusa wrote:
... you do realize that they didn't think this product was going to be this popular...
For real? They made a whole new separate website for it, and hyped it up. Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts, think GW went into the design and production of Cursed City thinking "Well, this won't be that popular, but let's do it anyway!".

And it is popular. Stores around the world were selling out within minutes of pre-orders going live. GW themselves made a bit of tat (the key) in order to entice people into buying directly from them rather than 3rd parties, and it worked, because the key sold out before the game did, and then it sold out.

"[T]hey didn't think [it] was going to be this popular..."

Are you for real?

 Togusa wrote:
... combined with Covid breaking nearly every industry in the world?
Which has literally nothing - zip, nada, zero - to do with GW's lack of communication as to whether this is an ongoing product, or a one-and-done.

 Togusa wrote:
Be patient, local FLGS said they were told that this might get the same treatment that Indomitus got, so just be patient.
It's been a week and a half since pre-orders started. Many people already have their copies. That's more than enough time for GW to say something.




Yes, I am for real. Because I heard that exact quote over the phone between my local store owner and his GW rep. The rep said "We had no idea that there would be THIS much of an interest in the product and we're scrambling to fill orders as we speak. I know that you ordered 10 boxes, however I can only send you four." And one hour later my local store owner informed us that they had called and dropped him to three copies instead of the promised 4. I believe they didn't expect this level of interest in the game.

Now, as for communication, I don't know. I don't even know what problem you are referring to. What did they not communicate?


Then that GW rep is either a huge moron, or a liar. Very very likely the second, as GW uses the tired old "sowwy we didn't knew thewe would be this much demand uwu" excuse everytime they purposefully make limited amounts of product to exploit Fear Of Missing Out, despite the fact they could easily produce enough for everyone AND the fact anyone that's not brain-dead should by now expect huge demand.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 12:35:13


Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





OKC, OK USA

 Togusa wrote:
Yes, I am for real. Because I heard that exact quote over the phone between my local store owner and his GW rep. The rep said "We had no idea that there would be THIS much of an interest in the product and we're scrambling to fill orders as we speak. I know that you ordered 10 boxes, however I can only send you four."


You actually believed that? That's the worst BS corporate ass covering excuse that could ever exist. GW knew exactly how popular this would be thanks to previous Quest sales.

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
 
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