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 BoomWolf wrote:
Seems like tau forgeworld is still missing...found everything else. (how on earth are infantry squads still 4 points when cultists who are strictly worse 5!?)

I think they’re using some logic like the magic color pie, where red direct damage is correctly costed but blue direct damage is intentionally overcosted because it’s out of style for the color. That could be what they’re thinking there.

Not saying it’s correct, just that it could be the mentailigh behind it.

Any more leaks on FW Adeptus Astartes? Or the datasheet changes?

 Trickstick wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
...and Chimeras don't go down...I dunno.

15 pts. Multilaser dropped 5 too, and h.flamer 3.

So 73 for cheapest Chimera.

That's actually REALLY GOOD. Like, shockingly good.

the_scotsman wrote:
We don't have a scan of the Indomitus Crusaders page, it's true, but the preview did say "Select one of your Space Marines detachments' which seems to indicate "adeptus astartes."

It would affect the Deathwatch unit "Intercessors Squad" and you would get the +1A and +1ld on any attached members as well, however since they don't have Bolt Rifles the stratagems would not work onthem.

Also, there seems to be no way to get the relic/warlord trait on the Deathwatch if they can take the detachment, because they have Primaris Watch Captains and not Primaris Captains. Space Wolves would have the same issue.

We do have a scan of the stratagems and they all say "Space Marine Stratagem" like in the Space Marine Codex, not "Deathwatch Stratagem".

Unless the other page says you can use these for non codex marines, I'm leaning towards thinking they can't cross over like that.

It would be pretty powerful - a 5 Intercessor and 5 Aggressor squad, power fist on the SGT would get like 19 power fist attacks all game.

Exocrine dropped a massive 46 points! That’s awesome.

Did any tyranid forge world stuff get amended?

Wilson wrote:
Exocrine dropped a massive 46 points! That’s awesome.

Did any tyranid forge world stuff get amended?

Page is missing. Waiting for it myself.

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:

 Danarc wrote:
Unchanged PAGK and GK termy at 39 points. It was beautiful GW. feth you.

here other changes

Apothecary - 75 // 15
BroCap - 110 // 40
BroAnc - 90 // 23
BroChamp - 90 // 23
Chappy - 105 // 39
Dread - 65 // 22
GM - 130 // 30
GMNDK - 170 // 20
Interceptors - 21 // 2
LR - 200 // 39
LRC - 200 // 44
LRR - 180 // 44
Libby - 113 // 44
PallyAnc - 98 // 52
Pallies - 47 // 6
Puries - 19 // 7
Razor - 70 // +5
Servitors - 5 // +3
SR - 192 // +20 (in CA)
TechMarine - 55 // 36
Termies - 39 // 7
VenDread - 85 // 25

Stern - 105 // 42
Crowe - 80 // 45
Voldus - 153 // 37
Draigo - 180 // 60

H,Incinerator - 19 // 21
H. Psycannon - 24 // 6
Incinerator - 9 // 5
Psycannon - 7 (11 for termies) // 7
Psilencer for Termies - 8 // +4
Incinerator for termies - 13 // 7
Twinlas - 40 // 10
Twin MM - 40 // 14
Typhoon - 38 // 12
ML - 20 // 5

Could someone tell me the actual point differences for Grey Knights now? My roommate who plays them will want to know. Thanks!

Added for you.

As I said in the GK tactics thread:

While I was hopping a higher decrease in GKT and SS, the point drops in other units are huge: 30 points for a grand master, 20 for the GMNDK, point drops in all our weapons, etc.

I just recalculated my last 1500 list and I'd save 124 points (it would be more if I used more special weapons). It's not that bad

Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

Could be some data sheet rules to explain no point change for space marines and the mysteriously expensive terminators or any other units that we kind of expected changes for.

As of right now, before I make any changes to my army, I gained 100 pts (20 pts for Pedro, 14 for the Plasma Pistol/Power Fist Primaris Captain, 6*6 for my Intercessor Squads, 10*3 for my Laserbacks). So that is quite the difference. It opens up a lot of possibilities for stuff. Maybe instead of the Laserbacks I will be able to fit in an Imperial Knight of some sort.

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

Too new to be CAed

Quasistellar wrote:
Could be some data sheet rules to explain no point change for space marines and the mysteriously expensive terminators or any other units that we kind of expected changes for.

I think they mentioned Intercessors on the WHTV stream, but there's 4 more pages of sheet changes we don't know anything about yet.

Quasistellar wrote:
Could be some data sheet rules to explain no point change for space marines and the mysteriously expensive terminators or any other units that we kind of expected changes for.

Definitely possible. We already know for certain that the Intercessor Squad sheet is being updated.

So, examining space marines, here's what I'm thinking:

Winners:

-Mini-marine elites with customizable wargear. Vanvets and Sternguard specifically seem to get some incredible gains with the point drops paired with 3 point storm shields. If I want to run PA marines, I want them to be vets all day every day. Full squad of special weapons, or a mixed squad with Special Issue boltguns and a stormshield thrown in to be annoying to kill. Vanvets have all they need in thunder hammers+storm shield mooks IMO.

-Washing Machines of all shapes and sizes. 140 points for a ML/twinlas vendread is pretty tasty tbh.

-Space Marine Brigades, specifically because of the Attack Bike and Whirlwind/stalker drops. 6x scouts/intecessors, 3x attack bikes, 3x Stalkers/Devastators/Whilwinds and you've got good HQs and cheap elites, I think that really boosts up the ability to take pure or mostly pure marines.

Losers:

Tacticals, assaults. Don't know why I'd take either of these when the veteran version of them exists.Tacticals do like the special/combi reduction a bit, but....I don't know if 87 points for plas/combiplas stacks up to 55 points for basic scouts.

Not sure:

Terminators. Tac termies are 34ppm. That might make them not...absymal, but I don't think it makes them good.

Drop Pods. At 65ppm you can deep strike some suicide sternguard somewhere. It costs 148 points total to drop 4 BS3+ plasma guns currently with guard, and 179 to drop 4 BS3+ sternguard in a pod with 4 plasma guns and a SS on the sarge. I don't know whether that's worthwhile or not, but it doesn't seem so off the wild blue yonder to be totally worthless.

Land Raiders. Looks like a Crusader is 264, and a regular LR is 320. At that price I kind of don't hate the crusader, and I'm considering the regular LR for my Thousand Sons (owing to their superior psychic support for the thing and their much better access to screening units to keep that thing AWAY from combat)

Quasistellar wrote:Could be some data sheet rules to explain no point change for space marines and the mysteriously expensive terminators or any other units that we kind of expected changes for.

No, we're missing a leak of page 132, that'll have the Space Marine stuff. Page 131 has A-C of Marines tuff, and apge 133 has the tail end of the SM Wargear.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

No, we're missing page 130, which is between page 129 (right-page deathwatch) and 131 (right-page grey knights wargear). So page 130 (left page spread) has Deathwatch, Drukhari, possibly GSC (although GW said a new codex is coming Jan) and the start of Grey Knights (which will be a small section due to small unit list).

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

Too new to be CAed

DE are 8 months old. The SW codex is the penultimate relased codex and they got changes in CA18


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alessander wrote:

Quasistellar wrote:

No, we're missing page 130, which is between page 129 (right-page deathwatch) and 131 (right-page grey knights wargear). So page 130 (left page spread) has Deathwatch, Drukhari, possibly GSC (although GW said a new codex is coming Jan) and the start of Grey Knights (which will be a small section due to small unit list).

Page 130 is DW, GSC, GK. No Drukhari on that page

Well, my 2000 pt Death Guard list just lost 60 points due to cultist nerfs. While receiving no buffs.
Blightlords dropped 4 points, which still leaves them far too expensive.
Plague Marines dropped one point. One.
This has gotta be some dumb joke.

Neronoxx wrote:
Well, my 2000 pt Death Guard list just lost 60 points due to cultist nerfs. While receiving no buffs.
Blightlords dropped 4 points, which still leaves them far too expensive.
Plague Marines dropped one point. One.
This has gotta be some dumb joke.

I think my DG list just freed up 150ish points

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Definitely possible. We already know for certain that the Intercessor Squad sheet is being updated.

That is the leak I'd be most interested in seeing! I am literally waiting here to see it so I know whether to start building power fist sergeants and whether I can give them rifles too or only pistols. My bits box is ready!

No, this gallery has most of those
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/d8Ae4TN

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Definitely possible. We already know for certain that the Intercessor Squad sheet is being updated.

That is the leak I'd be most interested in seeing! I am literally waiting here to see it so I know whether to start building power fist sergeants and whether I can give them rifles too or only pistols. My bits box is ready!

Crap, that is a good point. I hope they didn't take away the rifle, since all of my Blood Angels have Chainswords, Bolt Rifles, and Bolt Pistols.

You can take a rifle and a power sword so I am sure you can take a rifle and a power fist.

 Garion wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

Too new to be CAed

DE are 8 months old. The SW codex is the penultimate relased codex and they got changes in CA18

All the SW changes are a direct mirror to codex marines.

zinch wrote:
As I said in the GK tactics thread:

While I was hopping a higher decrease in GKT and SS, the point drops in other units are huge: 30 points for a grand master, 20 for the GMNDK, point drops in all our weapons, etc.

I just recalculated my last 1500 list and I'd save 124 points (it would be more if I used more special weapons). It's not that bad

Issue is that when you take into consideration all the drops other armies got, the GK changes are very poor. Sure you can save lots of points by having lots of characters, all fighting over 6 psychic powers even though by characters alone you could easily cast them all twice over (and not even mentioning all other units you take.)

Why take strikes when interceptors are 2 points more in exchange for a teleport and 12 inch ignore terrain move? Why take NDK when the GMNDK is barely more yet far superior? Without more powers, or full on smite, this CA puts GKs in no better a place than they were, a bottom tier, garbage level army that isn't even good enough to be used as allies.

 Xenomancers wrote:
You can take a rifle and a power sword so I am sure you can take a rifle and a power fist.

Perhaps. Or perhaps not; the example model didn't have one. Pointless and annoying weapon restrictions are kinda the defining feature of the Primaris. I'm not gonna open the glue until I know for sure.

 Crimson wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
You can take a rifle and a power sword so I am sure you can take a rifle and a power fist.

Perhaps. Or perhaps not; the example model didn't have one. Pointless and annoying weapon restrictions are kinda the defining feature of the Primaris. I'm not gonna open the glue until I know for sure.

Yes, but the example Blood Angels Sergeant just has a pistol and Chainswords, the example Dark Angel has a Power Sword and no bolt weapons at all. So I am cautiously optimistic.

I was saying for a while now that point increases were going to be rare. It's marketing 101, why piss off and alienate 10% of your customers when you can drop costs over everything else and make 90% of your customers happier. It works like a charm.

Look at this thread, so many people with horse blinders on getting excited to buy more stuff not realizing that when 90% of the field gets point cuts, nothing changes in the meta. Your army that was screwed last weekend will be just as screwed this coming week. Only now you get to buy more models.

There were a few factions that warranted cuts. Necrons and grey knights easily being the biggest two. Especially Necrons since they are stuck at single faction. The Necron cuts look decent in a vacuum, but when you look at all the cuts they made zero fething ground. I actually think they lost ground. Most of the cuts they received were on unplayable units.

I have played this game for many years, so I am not bragging when I say I own and play with around 8 armies across several factions. If you take any old list and recalculate it, every army went down between 120-150 points. All this CA did was scale the game up 150pts. If you take the index armies, what was a 2000 point army in June 2017, is now closer to 2500 after codex drops and CA cuts. It's getting to the point where it is mirroring micro transactions from video games.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

No page numbers missing. Drukhari on their own are ok (disintegrators aside). It's when they ally it becomes more of a problem. We'll have to wait and see if GW has any structural changes that impact list building.

You are so wrong. It is the most powerful solo codex. Practically every unit is undercosted lol.