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Excluding the 3x5 sister which will stay hidden and take objectives, the enemy can shoot only transports first turns, everything will be in range of the imagifier, to which I commit a lot.
every rhino as an answer to chaff / elite / vehicles each (flamers, repentia, MM), and there are still the exorcist for all the rest,
the flamer retributors have a combi melta for the +1 to Wound stratagem, which is great with flamers.
Celestine should be able to ingage every near threat and 3rd turn charges straight ahead, when the enemy should have less answers for ther.
The canoness with the Litanies is chilling with the exorcists, taking objectives. Celestine is WL due to survivability, and I am committing a lot to the imagifier giving the +1 inv WLt and the +3' to auras Relic.
Canoness: Blessed Blade, Bolt pistol, Relic: Litanies of Faith
Canoness: Blessed Blade, Bolt pistol
Celestine: Warlord, Warlord Trait: 4. Beacon of Faith
+ Troops +
Battle Sister Squad
. 2x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
Battle Sister Squad
. 2x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
Battle Sister Squad
. 2x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
+ Elites +
Imagifier: Heroine in the Making, Relic: Book of St. Lucius, Tale of the Stoic, Warlord Trait: 5. Indomitable Belief
Sisters Repentia: 9x Sisters Repentia
+ Heavy Support +
Exorcist: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter
Exorcist: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter, Hunter-killer missile
Retributor Squad: 2x Armourium Cherub
. 3x Retributor
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
Retributor Squad: 2x Armourium Cherub
. 3x Retributor
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Combi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
+ Dedicated Transport +
Sororitas Rhino: Storm bolter
Sororitas Rhino: Storm bolter
Sororitas Rhino: Storm bolter
So... my first thought is a Canoness hiding behind the Exorcists with Litanies of Faith is a more survivable WL than St Celestine. Logic being that if your opponent is killing them twice, the loss of your WL is probably secondary to everything else that's happening on the board.
The Repentia also don't have a lot of support beyond the Superior. A Missionary and/or Tale of the Warrior is more useful in my experience, especially without a Conviction buff.
I agree, Celestine should absolutely not be your warlord unless you have no other choice. Her warlord trait choice, is location-independent and works as long as the bearer is alive, so even if you want Beacon of Faith there's no reason not to give it to a Canoness babysitting Exorcists who is not going into harms way. In addition, Celestine is a big scary, pretty much a suicidal unit, and the enemy is going to want to kill her and benefits from directing firepower towards her. Adding on a victory point on her head is just giving the enemy a victory point for doing what they already were doing.
Warlord traits [and relics] that are position independent should generally be given to backline characters out of the line of fire. That way they'll never be easy off-hand kills for the enemy, and if the enemy really wants them gone, they have to invest in destroying a unit that wasn't also threatening them more directly, thus preserving your firepower and momentum.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: they have to invest in destroying a unit that wasn't also threatening them more directly, thus preserving your firepower and momentum.
You sound like Sun Tzu. We should really compile this stuff somewhere.
Excluding the 3x5 sister which will stay hidden and take objectives, the enemy can shoot only transports first turns, everything will be in range of the imagifier, to which I commit a lot.
every rhino as an answer to chaff / elite / vehicles each (flamers, repentia, MM), and there are still the exorcist for all the rest,
the flamer retributors have a combi melta for the +1 to Wound stratagem, which is great with flamers.
Celestine should be able to ingage every near threat and 3rd turn charges straight ahead, when the enemy should have less answers for ther.
The canoness with the Litanies is chilling with the exorcists, taking objectives. Celestine is WL due to survivability, and I am committing a lot to the imagifier giving the +1 inv WLt and the +3' to auras Relic.
Canoness: Blessed Blade, Bolt pistol, Relic: Litanies of Faith
Canoness: Blessed Blade, Bolt pistol
Celestine: Warlord, Warlord Trait: 4. Beacon of Faith
+ Troops +
Battle Sister Squad
. 2x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
Battle Sister Squad
. 2x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
Battle Sister Squad
. 2x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
+ Elites +
Imagifier: Heroine in the Making, Relic: Book of St. Lucius, Tale of the Stoic, Warlord Trait: 5. Indomitable Belief
Sisters Repentia: 9x Sisters Repentia
+ Heavy Support +
Exorcist: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter
Exorcist: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter, Hunter-killer missile
Retributor Squad: 2x Armourium Cherub
. 3x Retributor
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
Retributor Squad: 2x Armourium Cherub
. 3x Retributor
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Combi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
+ Dedicated Transport +
Sororitas Rhino: Storm bolter
Sororitas Rhino: Storm bolter
Sororitas Rhino: Storm bolter
So... my first thought is a Canoness hiding behind the Exorcists with Litanies of Faith is a more survivable WL than St Celestine. Logic being that if your opponent is killing them twice, the loss of your WL is probably secondary to everything else that's happening on the board.
The Repentia also don't have a lot of support beyond the Superior. A Missionary and/or Tale of the Warrior is more useful in my experience, especially without a Conviction buff.
I agree, Celestine should absolutely not be your warlord unless you have no other choice. Her warlord trait choice, is location-independent and works as long as the bearer is alive, so even if you want Beacon of Faith there's no reason not to give it to a Canoness babysitting Exorcists who is not going into harms way. In addition, Celestine is a big scary, pretty much a suicidal unit, and the enemy is going to want to kill her and benefits from directing firepower towards her. Adding on a victory point on her head is just giving the enemy a victory point for doing what they already were doing.
Warlord traits [and relics] that are position independent should generally be given to backline characters out of the line of fire. That way they'll never be easy off-hand kills for the enemy, and if the enemy really wants them gone, they have to invest in destroying a unit that wasn't also threatening them more directly, thus preserving your firepower and momentum.
Disagree completely.
Celestine hasn't been a 'big scary' or 'suicidal' unit since the index version that could cleave your opponents backline by herself.
Celestine is a reasonably competent counter charger that also acts as a buff bot and a near sniper immune vessel for beacon of Faith. She offers alphastrike protection and punishment for deepstrikers and that's about it. She's fairly good at these roles, to be sure, but she's not exactly a lynchpin anymore. She could go down 20-40 points and I don't think it would be at all out of line.
The only people who are still focusing Celestine are reliving flashbacks to when index SoB were quietly SUPER OP. Smart opponents are going after canonesses and imagifiers, the real lynchpin of most modern SoB forces. Celestine also has the perk of requiring TWO PHASES worth of investment to fully put down, and her 2+4++ making her deeply irritating to kill with commonly seen sniper abilities. Most opponents will simply ignore her unless she presents as a target of opportunity. Going out of their way to kill her is a fools errand that may just force them out of position, or give an offensive unit a turn to repostion.
Putting beacon of faith on Celestine means you are dividing value more evenly along you characters and protecting against things like sniper fire, miss positioning, or even just long bomb charges. Putting it on a Canoness that often will have a relic or a null rod or a rod of office consolidates too much value on a single character. It's the same theory for why you shouldn't make your 2 Tale, Litanies imagifier your warlord.
Excluding the 3x5 sister which will stay hidden and take objectives, the enemy can shoot only transports first turns, everything will be in range of the imagifier, to which I commit a lot.
every rhino as an answer to chaff / elite / vehicles each (flamers, repentia, MM), and there are still the exorcist for all the rest,
the flamer retributors have a combi melta for the +1 to Wound stratagem, which is great with flamers.
Celestine should be able to ingage every near threat and 3rd turn charges straight ahead, when the enemy should have less answers for ther.
The canoness with the Litanies is chilling with the exorcists, taking objectives. Celestine is WL due to survivability, and I am committing a lot to the imagifier giving the +1 inv WLt and the +3' to auras Relic.
Canoness: Blessed Blade, Bolt pistol, Relic: Litanies of Faith
Canoness: Blessed Blade, Bolt pistol
Celestine: Warlord, Warlord Trait: 4. Beacon of Faith
+ Troops +
Battle Sister Squad
. 2x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
Battle Sister Squad
. 2x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
Battle Sister Squad
. 2x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
+ Elites +
Imagifier: Heroine in the Making, Relic: Book of St. Lucius, Tale of the Stoic, Warlord Trait: 5. Indomitable Belief
Sisters Repentia: 9x Sisters Repentia
+ Heavy Support +
Exorcist: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter
Exorcist: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter, Hunter-killer missile
Retributor Squad: 2x Armourium Cherub
. 3x Retributor
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
Retributor Squad: 2x Armourium Cherub
. 3x Retributor
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Combi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
+ Dedicated Transport +
Sororitas Rhino: Storm bolter
Sororitas Rhino: Storm bolter
Sororitas Rhino: Storm bolter
So... my first thought is a Canoness hiding behind the Exorcists with Litanies of Faith is a more survivable WL than St Celestine. Logic being that if your opponent is killing them twice, the loss of your WL is probably secondary to everything else that's happening on the board.
The Repentia also don't have a lot of support beyond the Superior. A Missionary and/or Tale of the Warrior is more useful in my experience, especially without a Conviction buff.
I agree, Celestine should absolutely not be your warlord unless you have no other choice. Her warlord trait choice, is location-independent and works as long as the bearer is alive, so even if you want Beacon of Faith there's no reason not to give it to a Canoness babysitting Exorcists who is not going into harms way. In addition, Celestine is a big scary, pretty much a suicidal unit, and the enemy is going to want to kill her and benefits from directing firepower towards her. Adding on a victory point on her head is just giving the enemy a victory point for doing what they already were doing.
Warlord traits [and relics] that are position independent should generally be given to backline characters out of the line of fire. That way they'll never be easy off-hand kills for the enemy, and if the enemy really wants them gone, they have to invest in destroying a unit that wasn't also threatening them more directly, thus preserving your firepower and momentum.
Disagree completely.
Celestine hasn't been a 'big scary' or 'suicidal' unit since the index version that could cleave your opponents backline by herself.
Celestine is a reasonably competent counter charger that also acts as a buff bot and a near sniper immune vessel for beacon of Faith. She offers alphastrike protection and punishment for deepstrikers and that's about it. She's fairly good at these roles, to be sure, but she's not exactly a lynchpin anymore. She could go down 20-40 points and I don't think it would be at all out of line.
The only people who are still focusing Celestine are reliving flashbacks to when index SoB were quietly SUPER OP. Smart opponents are going after canonesses and imagifiers, the real lynchpin of most modern SoB forces. Celestine also has the perk of requiring TWO PHASES worth of investment to fully put down, and her 2+4++ making her deeply irritating to kill with commonly seen sniper abilities. Most opponents will simply ignore her unless she presents as a target of opportunity. Going out of their way to kill her is a fools errand that may just force them out of position, or give an offensive unit a turn to repostion.
Putting beacon of faith on Celestine means you are dividing value more evenly along you characters and protecting against things like sniper fire, miss positioning, or even just long bomb charges. Putting it on a Canoness that often will have a relic or a null rod or a rod of office consolidates too much value on a single character. It's the same theory for why you shouldn't make your 2 Tale, Litanies imagifier your warlord.
Celestine needs to drop about 60 points for me to be interested in running her. However, she's the second(technically third, but I'm discounting the Triumph for now) most expensive model we have on the board and is good enough that removing her isn't a waste of effort. She's also not hanging back, well out of the line of fire.
Both myself and Katherine were also being generous about how much attention a backfield Canoness would attract, even as a relic carrying WL they're just too far out of the game(once the Exorcists are dead) to be worth the pain of flying a unit or two over there to remove them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/26 02:11:10
Excluding the 3x5 sister which will stay hidden and take objectives, the enemy can shoot only transports first turns, everything will be in range of the imagifier, to which I commit a lot.
every rhino as an answer to chaff / elite / vehicles each (flamers, repentia, MM), and there are still the exorcist for all the rest,
the flamer retributors have a combi melta for the +1 to Wound stratagem, which is great with flamers.
Celestine should be able to ingage every near threat and 3rd turn charges straight ahead, when the enemy should have less answers for ther.
The canoness with the Litanies is chilling with the exorcists, taking objectives. Celestine is WL due to survivability, and I am committing a lot to the imagifier giving the +1 inv WLt and the +3' to auras Relic.
Canoness: Blessed Blade, Bolt pistol, Relic: Litanies of Faith
Canoness: Blessed Blade, Bolt pistol
Celestine: Warlord, Warlord Trait: 4. Beacon of Faith
+ Troops +
Battle Sister Squad
. 2x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
Battle Sister Squad
. 2x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
Battle Sister Squad
. 2x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
+ Elites +
Imagifier: Heroine in the Making, Relic: Book of St. Lucius, Tale of the Stoic, Warlord Trait: 5. Indomitable Belief
Sisters Repentia: 9x Sisters Repentia
+ Heavy Support +
Exorcist: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter
Exorcist: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter, Hunter-killer missile
Retributor Squad: 2x Armourium Cherub
. 3x Retributor
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta
Retributor Squad: 2x Armourium Cherub
. 3x Retributor
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Combi-melta
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
+ Dedicated Transport +
Sororitas Rhino: Storm bolter
Sororitas Rhino: Storm bolter
Sororitas Rhino: Storm bolter
So... my first thought is a Canoness hiding behind the Exorcists with Litanies of Faith is a more survivable WL than St Celestine. Logic being that if your opponent is killing them twice, the loss of your WL is probably secondary to everything else that's happening on the board.
The Repentia also don't have a lot of support beyond the Superior. A Missionary and/or Tale of the Warrior is more useful in my experience, especially without a Conviction buff.
I agree, Celestine should absolutely not be your warlord unless you have no other choice. Her warlord trait choice, is location-independent and works as long as the bearer is alive, so even if you want Beacon of Faith there's no reason not to give it to a Canoness babysitting Exorcists who is not going into harms way. In addition, Celestine is a big scary, pretty much a suicidal unit, and the enemy is going to want to kill her and benefits from directing firepower towards her. Adding on a victory point on her head is just giving the enemy a victory point for doing what they already were doing.
Warlord traits [and relics] that are position independent should generally be given to backline characters out of the line of fire. That way they'll never be easy off-hand kills for the enemy, and if the enemy really wants them gone, they have to invest in destroying a unit that wasn't also threatening them more directly, thus preserving your firepower and momentum.
Disagree completely.
Celestine hasn't been a 'big scary' or 'suicidal' unit since the index version that could cleave your opponents backline by herself.
Celestine is a reasonably competent counter charger that also acts as a buff bot and a near sniper immune vessel for beacon of Faith. She offers alphastrike protection and punishment for deepstrikers and that's about it. She's fairly good at these roles, to be sure, but she's not exactly a lynchpin anymore. She could go down 20-40 points and I don't think it would be at all out of line.
The only people who are still focusing Celestine are reliving flashbacks to when index SoB were quietly SUPER OP. Smart opponents are going after canonesses and imagifiers, the real lynchpin of most modern SoB forces. Celestine also has the perk of requiring TWO PHASES worth of investment to fully put down, and her 2+4++ making her deeply irritating to kill with commonly seen sniper abilities. Most opponents will simply ignore her unless she presents as a target of opportunity. Going out of their way to kill her is a fools errand that may just force them out of position, or give an offensive unit a turn to repostion.
Putting beacon of faith on Celestine means you are dividing value more evenly along you characters and protecting against things like sniper fire, miss positioning, or even just long bomb charges. Putting it on a Canoness that often will have a relic or a null rod or a rod of office consolidates too much value on a single character. It's the same theory for why you shouldn't make your 2 Tale, Litanies imagifier your warlord.
Obviously, we agree that one should distribute your available points and essential function across many targets to avoid being crippled by the elimination of a critical target, I guess we disagree on Celestine's function and value, and ease of elimination.
I think that Celestine is always going to be of way higher value than a backfield canoness, even if you gave her a rod of office or null rod. Even if you're just using her for her invul save aura to stack it with the warlord trait, she's a high priority target for the enemy. At least, she's a vastly higher priority target than a bare-bones 45 point Canoness hiding behind an Exorcist, and being in the middle of the army's infantry [and thus near the front] and fairly large with no way to get out of LoS, she's definitely not harder to kill in the first place
For a warlord trait that doesn't care who it's on and only needs to be alive, stick it on the lowest value, safest character in your army, and I don't think that character is Celestine. 2 Battalions or a Brigade+Battalion will leave you with a lot of noncritical HQ characters to be you warlord and hide behind an Exorcist to generate a faith die per turn if that's what you want.
MacPhail wrote:
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: they have to invest in destroying a unit that wasn't also threatening them more directly, thus preserving your firepower and momentum.
You sound like Sun Tzu. We should really compile this stuff somewhere.
Ha. I've been told by my friends that talking to me is like getting a lecture or listening to a podcast.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: they have to invest in destroying a unit that wasn't also threatening them more directly, thus preserving your firepower and momentum.
You sound like Sun Tzu. We should really compile this stuff somewhere.
Ha. I've been told by my friends that talking to me is like getting a lecture or listening to a podcast.
I get that Aux Detachments can’t use stratagems, but they still get Sacred Rites and I don’t see anything in the order convictions portion of our rules that says if I take an Aux Detachment I can’t give it an <Order>. If someone can prove me wrong by the rules then I’ll agree, but I don’t see that anywhere.
AFAIK by RAW, I can give my Aux Detachment of Zephyrim the <Bloody Rose> Convictions.
with the loss of the stratagem, I'd rather just take them in-order, an aux detachment unable to get the +1 strength from the banner or the +1 to wound from the detachment is trading 1 attack and an extra ap that rarely matters for -1 to -3 to wound. the casket becomes a requirement for them to kill much beyond chaff that your bolters will clear anyway.
Also, Canonesses are great and priests, hospitallers and dialogus are useful and order agnostic. I don't see any good reason to no invest the 200pts necessary to put together 2 Melee Canoness, an imagifier, and one more support character.
This is how i'm shoe horning in triumph into my lists
supreme command of bloody rose canoness, missionary, triumph, done.
Godforge custom 3d printing / professional level casting masters and design:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/GodForge
I get that Aux Detachments can’t use stratagems, but they still get Sacred Rites and I don’t see anything in the order convictions portion of our rules that says if I take an Aux Detachment I can’t give it an <Order>. If someone can prove me wrong by the rules then I’ll agree, but I don’t see that anywhere.
AFAIK by RAW, I can give my Aux Detachment of Zephyrim the <Bloody Rose> Convictions.
with the loss of the stratagem, I'd rather just take them in-order, an aux detachment unable to get the +1 strength from the banner or the +1 to wound from the detachment is trading 1 attack and an extra ap that rarely matters for -1 to -3 to wound. the casket becomes a requirement for them to kill much beyond chaff that your bolters will clear anyway.
Also, Canonesses are great and priests, hospitallers and dialogus are useful and order agnostic. I don't see any good reason to no invest the 200pts necessary to put together 2 Melee Canoness, an imagifier, and one more support character.
This is how i'm shoe horning in triumph into my lists
supreme command of bloody rose canoness, missionary, triumph, done.
Question about the sanctum. It appears like roughly the right size to hide a knight in, so could I get a cover bonus if I hide a crusader behind it since he is 1/2 obscured?
I agree, Celestine should absolutely not be your warlord unless you have no other choice. Her warlord trait choice, is location-independent and works as long as the bearer is alive, so even if you want Beacon of Faith there's no reason not to give it to a Canoness babysitting Exorcists who is not going into harms way. In addition, Celestine is a big scary, pretty much a suicidal unit, and the enemy is going to want to kill her and benefits from directing firepower towards her. Adding on a victory point on her head is just giving the enemy a victory point for doing what they already were doing..
Then again she's been pretty much invulnerable for me unless I decide to kill her off. Denying 1 VP can be big.
Gearing up for when we get back to gaming...
This question is for those who play competitive ITC.
Now that ITC Championship rules have been updated, in many ways it is now easier to find ways to score the “kill” secondaries on most opponents.
Is it as crucial as before to try to deny those secondaries in our builds? “Butchers Bill” is pretty easy to get on Sisters, with infantry-heavy lists also giving up “Reaper” and vehicle heavy lists giving up “BGH” or “Marked for Death”.
Just wondering if I should still try to deny where I can and how are you building your lists?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/29 02:26:50
davidgr33n wrote: Gearing up for when we get back to gaming...
This question is for those who play competitive ITC.
Now that ITC Championship rules have been updated, in many ways it is now easier to find ways to score the “kill” secondaries on most opponents.
Is it as crucial as before to try to deny those secondaries in our builds? “Butchers Bill” is pretty easy to get on Sisters, with infantry-heavy lists also giving up “Reaper” and vehicle heavy lists giving up “BGH” or “Marked for Death”.
Just wondering if I should still try to deny where I can and how are you building your lists?
Honestly, I don't know.
I wouldn't sacrifice an Exorcist or a Rhino to deny Big Game Hunter, but I'd take a couple less people from a squad to make The Reaper only score for 3.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Most of my lists will give up Head Hunter and Butcher's Bill pretty easy. Big Game Hunter and Marked For Death are the easiest to deny. Reaper can technically be picked up, but I'm practically tabled by that point anyway so it doesn't matter to me.
11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
The only problem is modeling them to look unique instead of looking the same but with different arms, damn lazy-ass monopose models. But I'm working out ways to get around that.
Did you buy the army box? Do so, it will give you a second pose on Canoness and Repentia Superior.
Assuming you want only one Repentia Superior and buy a seperate Canoness you can make a third Canoness from the multipose Repentia Superior in the Repentia boxset and spare parts from the Canoness blister.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
I have a Bloody Rose Canoness with a chainsword. Because I’m taking a Chainsword I can take a null rod for 12 pts.
Now pregame I take a relic which upgrades my Chainsword to the relic Beneficience sword.
Am i no longer able to take the Null Rod?
The pertinent wording is “If this model is equipped with 1 Chainsword, it can have a Brazier of Holy Fire or a Null Rod”.
davidgr33n wrote: I have a Bloody Rose Canoness with a chainsword. Because I’m taking a Chainsword I can take a null rod for 12 pts.
Now pregame I take a relic which upgrades my Chainsword to the relic Beneficience sword.
Am i no longer able to take the Null Rod?
The pertinent wording is “If this model is equipped with 1 Chainsword, it can have a Brazier of Holy Fire or a Null Rod”.
Beneficience is a chainsword.
If you want to look at it this way. First you choose your wargear according to the rules. Then when you are done you upgrade the wargear to relics as appropriate.
Frankly GW should never have forced this gak onto us to begin with, they dont even allow for kitbash, let alone conversions. I dislike the way they have restricted upgrade options to sets.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
davidgr33n wrote: I have a Bloody Rose Canoness with a chainsword. Because I’m taking a Chainsword I can take a null rod for 12 pts.
Now pregame I take a relic which upgrades my Chainsword to the relic Beneficience sword.
Am i no longer able to take the Null Rod?
The pertinent wording is “If this model is equipped with 1 Chainsword, it can have a Brazier of Holy Fire or a Null Rod”.
davidgr33n wrote: I have a Bloody Rose Canoness with a chainsword. Because I’m taking a Chainsword I can take a null rod for 12 pts.
Now pregame I take a relic which upgrades my Chainsword to the relic Beneficience sword.
Am i no longer able to take the Null Rod?
The pertinent wording is “If this model is equipped with 1 Chainsword, it can have a Brazier of Holy Fire or a Null Rod”.
Relic chainsword is still chainsword.
And relics are chosen after army list is created as well.
Tel11 wrote: Question about the sanctum. It appears like roughly the right size to hide a knight in, so could I get a cover bonus if I hide a crusader behind it since he is 1/2 obscured?
It depends. The terrain rules a bit basic so you'll need to agree to the details beforehand.
Orlanth wrote: Frankly GW should never have forced this gak onto us to begin with, they dont even allow for kitbash, let alone conversions. I dislike the way they have restricted upgrade options to sets.
Did we ever figure out what horrendous game-breaking exploit they were trying to prevent with this goofiness?
Orlanth wrote: Frankly GW should never have forced this gak onto us to begin with, they dont even allow for kitbash, let alone conversions. I dislike the way they have restricted upgrade options to sets.
Did we ever figure out what horrendous game-breaking exploit they were trying to prevent with this goofiness?
No Model, no rules.
I don't think there is a single wargear option in the entire Sisters of Battle Codex that isn't either a distinct model, directly produced from the kit options, or produced by taking an option from one kit and combining with another (such as Power Maul for Sister Superiors is in the Retributor Kit while the Power Sword is in the Battle Sister Kit).
Orlanth wrote: Frankly GW should never have forced this gak onto us to begin with, they dont even allow for kitbash, let alone conversions. I dislike the way they have restricted upgrade options to sets.
Did we ever figure out what horrendous game-breaking exploit they were trying to prevent with this goofiness?
It's not about game balance, it's about copyright. In my limited understanding it works like this: GW only has copyright on models that they produce. If they produce the concept for a model, for example by writing rules and doing artwork of it, they do not have copyright on it and anyone can produce and sell a model matching that concept. This happened with ChapterHouse Studios.
Orlanth wrote: Frankly GW should never have forced this gak onto us to begin with, they dont even allow for kitbash, let alone conversions. I dislike the way they have restricted upgrade options to sets.
Did we ever figure out what horrendous game-breaking exploit they were trying to prevent with this goofiness?
No Model, no rules.
I don't think there is a single wargear option in the entire Sisters of Battle Codex that isn't either a distinct model, directly produced from the kit options, or produced by taking an option from one kit and combining with another (such as Power Maul for Sister Superiors is in the Retributor Kit while the Power Sword is in the Battle Sister Kit).
You can also caterwaul about a loadout being illegal until gw makes the loadout in question completely useless, but legal
Godforge custom 3d printing / professional level casting masters and design:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/GodForge
Canoness [3 PL, 49pts]: Bolt pistol, Power sword, Relic: Iron Surplice of St Istaela, Warlord, Warlord Trait: 4. Beacon of Faith
+ Elites +
Imagifier [2 PL, 45pts]: Tale of the Stoic
+ Heavy Support +
Exorcist [8 PL, 170pts]: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter
Exorcist [8 PL, 170pts]: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter
Exorcist [8 PL, 170pts]: Exorcist Missile Launcher, Heavy bolter
++ Total: [110 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++
I dont know much about this army but a few observations, and tons of questions:
Units Mortifiers are absolutely bananas.nd used them as a counter charge unit. Assault Heavy Bolters are something else. Question though, the wording on the flails confused me a bit. With a pair of two, are they making (4x3 +1) or (4x3 +3) attacks? All the same my favorite unit from the game, they took pit a maxed sized Jackal Biker Unit and a Patriarch.
Do people run these in competitive or are they too fragile?
Judith allowing rerolls of 1 to wound was really nice, do people use her much? It seems like VH is the go to Order so I would guess not.
What's the standard load out for Retributors, and Dominions?
I sadly never used my repentia, just sat in their rhino with the missionary the entire game. How do they perform compared to things like mortifiers?
Army Rules The Martyrdom Sacred Rite was amazing... does it restrict a unit to doing a specific type of action? Like if a sister dies while within 1" of an enemy model, can she fire a bolter for her Martyrdom action?
Does an exorcist get to shoot it's guns profile (3d3), or just literally 1 shot? (Regarding Martyrdom).
I never rolled higher than a 4 for my miracle dice, and my inquisitor friend never stole any CP so that was a bit of a let down.
Anything here obviously bad? How would you improve the list?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/03 07:20:59
Mortifiers are absolutely bananas.nd used them as a counter charge unit. Assault Heavy Bolters are something else. Question though, the wording on the flails confused me a bit. With a pair of two, are they making (4x3 +1) or (4x3 +3) attacks? All the same my favorite unit from the game, they took pit a maxed sized Jackal Biker Unit and a Patriarch.
For counter charge penitents with flails are even better. More durable, hit harder. Mortifiers are good when you try to rush forward with extra speed and advance+charge stratagem.
15 attacks total. check FAQ
Judith allowing rerolls of 1 to wound was really nice, do people use her much? It seems like VH is the go to Order so I would guess not.
If you use the Judith's order she's good. But as most are VH or bloody rose...
What's the standard load out for Retributors, and Dominions?
4xmulti melta or with ebon chalice 4xheavy flamer. For dominions 4xstorm bolters for blessed bolts.
I sadly never used my repentia, just sat in their rhino with the missionary the entire game. How do they perform compared to things like mortifiers?
Buffed up supreme tough target killer.
The Martyrdom Sacred Rite was amazing... does it restrict a unit to doing a specific type of action? Like if a sister dies while within 1" of an enemy model, can she fire a bolter for her Martyrdom action?
You shoot "as if shooting phase". Can't shoot in shooting phase within 1", can't shoot here.
Does an exorcist get to shoot it's guns profile (3d3), or just literally 1 shot? (Regarding Martyrdom).
Mortifiers are absolutely bananas.nd used them as a counter charge unit. Assault Heavy Bolters are something else. Question though, the wording on the flails confused me a bit. With a pair of two, are they making (4x3 +1) or (4x3 +3) attacks? All the same my favorite unit from the game, they took pit a maxed sized Jackal Biker Unit and a Patriarch.
For counter charge penitents with flails are even better. More durable, hit harder. Mortifiers are good when you try to rush forward with extra speed and advance+charge stratagem.
15 attacks total. check FAQ
Judith allowing rerolls of 1 to wound was really nice, do people use her much? It seems like VH is the go to Order so I would guess not.
If you use the Judith's order she's good. But as most are VH or bloody rose...
What's the standard load out for Retributors, and Dominions?
4xmulti melta or with ebon chalice 4xheavy flamer. For dominions 4xstorm bolters for blessed bolts.
I sadly never used my repentia, just sat in their rhino with the missionary the entire game. How do they perform compared to things like mortifiers?
Buffed up supreme tough target killer.
The Martyrdom Sacred Rite was amazing... does it restrict a unit to doing a specific type of action? Like if a sister dies while within 1" of an enemy model, can she fire a bolter for her Martyrdom action?
You shoot "as if shooting phase". Can't shoot in shooting phase within 1", can't shoot here.
Does an exorcist get to shoot it's guns profile (3d3), or just literally 1 shot? (Regarding Martyrdom).
Gun is full profile. Melee is one attack.
I've always shot with my Bolt Pistol for Spirit of the Martyr in melee...
Other than that, Junith is an amazing model with good rules that's locked to terrible Order rules.
Mortifiers/Pen. Engines are great, but often end up serving as distraction Carnifexes(Which they're perfectly fine at doing) and are (4+1)×3=15 attacks each with flails.
Various ideas for Multi-Melta and Heavy Flamer Retributors exist, depending on how suicidal and how burney you want to be with them. But as was said, 4× (blessed) Storm Bolters are the only real use for Doms at the moment.
Repentia are good, amazing when properly supported. GSC generally don't have a good target for them in my experience though. They want to carve up the biggest, meanest thing they can.
ah well of course pistol is fair. Do I really have to start phrasing every exception? As shooting. Whatever you shoot in shooting phase you shoot. What you can't shoot in shooting phase you don't. Let's not no go for obvious. Next one you are going to say you shoot 2 shots with half the range with rapid fire 1 gun?
tneva82 wrote: ah well of course pistol is fair. Do I really have to start phrasing every exception? As shooting. Whatever you shoot in shooting phase you shoot. What you can't shoot in shooting phase you don't. Let's not no go for obvious. Next one you are going to say you shoot 2 shots with half the range with rapid fire 1 gun?
In this case, it's exceptional and an almost counter intuitive rule. So it's worth pointing out, given it's almost always our better option.
tneva82 wrote: ah well of course pistol is fair. Do I really have to start phrasing every exception? As shooting. Whatever you shoot in shooting phase you shoot. What you can't shoot in shooting phase you don't. Let's not no go for obvious. Next one you are going to say you shoot 2 shots with half the range with rapid fire 1 gun?
In this case, it's exceptional and an almost counter intuitive rule. So it's worth pointing out, given it's almost always our better option.
Also don't forget about grenades
I'm not sure on this one but because each model is being chosen to shoot with individually as it dies you may be able to throw a hailstorm of them, I'd need to check exact wording
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11,100 pts, 
7,000 pts
