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Nope. If there was one there would have been something similar in necrons or more likely marines.

Unless it comes with change of design style again but that means orks are not getting codex in 2021 for sure.

3 CP aren't the problem. The problem is that you still need infantry to score objectives and perform action, so a pure dreadmob is unlikely to be a great choice.

Lists looking like current buggy lists except with more walkers? That is something I can see working.

So my local winter league just started and I decided to stop being a hipster and change ships to Deathskulls. The rules say that we play the first 3 games with fixed lists and after that can do some altering. I kinda felt that the units I've been working on lately haven't been synergizing very well with Evils Sunz and I haven't had a chance to buy the second or third Bonebreaka I intended. I'll have to get used to not advancing all the time with everything and remembering all those re-rolls that put me off for all this time. My list is as follows:


General idea is to put MANZ+MegaMek into the Battlewagon (grot-oiler to die in breakout), and regular Nobs + Warboss into a more easily hideable Trukk (or even on foot in certain deployments). Regular boyz are there to deploy scramblers and screen, maybe kill some soft deepstrikers. The rest I think are pretty self-explanatory. I changed the Snazzwagon into a KBB due to feedback.


Our meta is casual competitive, which means long-time players using non-optimised lists. My first pair is this mixed-dynasty Necrons list:



While the list doesn't seem very hard, it has many units (and potential synergies) that I'm not familiar with at all. I'm not sure how to prioritize my targets. Is that flyer a potential T1 threat, as many fliers seem to be? Scarabs have ObSec and 36 wounds, but are surprisingly easy to beat with model count. Do they have some nasty trick I should be aware of? Warriors and Lychguard both I have faced before, same with Immortals. I don't think my list is particularly weak against them. About Destoyers I have no countable information at all. Are they the long-range AT his list seems to otherwise lack?

The Deceiver seems oddly ... bad? compared to the other C'Tan, so I'm a little confused if I should go after it in the beginning. It will munch through MANZ easily, but has weirdly low offensive output against most other targets. I was thinking about committing the Scrapjets to take it out T1 (rokkits, chargeMW, melee) but that would consume both MoreDakka and Ramming speed to succeed reliably. Seems like a big investment to me.

How would you approach facing against this kind of list? We are playing Sweep&Clear and I think it would be a good idea to take Engage, Scramblers and Vital Ground as secondaries. He doesn't seem to have enough ranged AT to max Bring it Down early and even though I have 4 characters I think I can count on losing max 2-3. I wonder if should start by concentrating fire on one of the scarab blobs and maybe the destroyers and avoid his troops until I can flood them in melee with local superiority. If he loses either of the scarab units, I can easily outnumber the other with either the Boyz or 2xKommandos and it becomes just an expensive blob. I'm down with scaringly few command points myself, so I fear his stratagems will play a bigger role than I can count beforehands.

 Jidmah wrote:
Can't go wrong with that, just make sure to buy a plastic shamans from AoS like the weird nob instead of the weird boy - it's a fincast model that is extremely likely to be heavily damaged. Or try to get a metal one from ebay, but they have gotten quite expensive recently.

Other than that, the best bets would probably be MANz or mek guns, just make sure to magnetize the guns on the later - there are some great tutorials for that if you look for them.

I'm not so sure about Mek Guns, I know they are a great unit but the price tag on the makes me hesitate getting any especially in high enough numbers

True, you said were on a budget and the mek guns are very much the opposite of that.

Do you know if you want to go more vehicle heavy or do you prefer infantry? Orks don't work well if you mix these two styles, so any suggestions would depend on which style you prefer.

 Jidmah wrote:
True, you said were on a budget and the mek guns are very much the opposite of that.

Do you know if you want to go more vehicle heavy or do you prefer infantry? Orks don't work well if you mix these two styles, so any suggestions would depend on which style you prefer.

My Krieg are very tank heavy so I'm wanting to do an infantry heavy list to change things up. At the same time though having some mechanized elements such as meganobz in bone breaker's would be an eventual thing I'd like to do

"Some mechanized elements" doesn't work for orks though. You either bring infantry in masses, or you bring vehicles in masses.
If you mix the two, your opponent's guns will be too efficient at killing your army and you will end up losing most of your units too quickly. A single bonebreaker will just end up destroyed by your opponent's anti-tank turn one and your MANz need to go on by foot. If you want a bonebreaker with MANz to be part of your army, you need to provide more targets, like trukks, planes, buggies or walkers that draw fire from your 300+ point investment.
That's why I said you need to decide - the single battlewagon/trukk in an infantry list is an extremely common mistake for new players to make, frankly because GW keeps displaying them to be used that way.

You can get away with fielding a few vehicles in an infantry list when you put them into the tellyporta, dreads or a gorkanaut are good examples of this.

The reason I suggested MANz and mek guns was because you can put them in any kind of list - despite being weak to anti-tank guns they are durable enough per points spent to not care.

For an infantry list, your next buys would be two more units of boyz (and thus more tankbustas) and maybe convert some kommandoz, they are fairly essential to infantry strategy right now.

@Jidmah, @Blackie, @Tomsug

Ill be using a large magnet at your behest. Thank you.

Also my Big Trakk, warboss on warbike and the Supa Kannon arrived today.

Holy F the supa kannon is massive? its as long as a penises. its super long considering its meant for a figure game, which is both awesome and.. difficult. Im not sure how im meant to hide my Supa kannon, i mean what is it, like at least 10 centimeters long on its own? then standing on a Big Trakk makes it kind of impossible to hide, meaning i will be shot at from all angles. Im guessing, if they can see the top of the gun, they can hit my unit? I kinda wished there would be updated line of sight rules, like you must see 50% of a body or 25% or something. Its because of things like this, that my Grot tanks Kommanda dont have a cute little banner on top, because it will actively hinder me in battle.

Anyway i havent assembled it yet. i just saw a massivel barrel and though: oh lord, that is long.

Beardedragon wrote:
@Jidmah, @Blackie, @Tomsug

Ill be using a large magnet at your behest. Thank you.

Also my Big Trakk, warboss on warbike and the Supa Kannon arrived today.

Holy F the supa kannon is massive? its longer than some peoples erected penises. its super long considering its meant for a figure game. Im not sure how im meant to hide my Supa kannon, i mean what is it, like 10 centimeters long on its own? then standing on a Big Trakk makes it kind of impossible to hide. It will be shot at from all angles as im guessing, they can see the top of the gun, they can hit my unit?

Anyway i havent assembled it yet. i just saw a massivel barrel and though: oh lord, that is long.

Back in the day it was the Orky equivalent of the Earth Shaker Cannon from the Basilisk. It was str 9 ap 3 primary weapon large blast. It wasnt meant to be a small model, its and Ork weapon, bigger is better. I wouldnt use the Supa Kannon on the Big Trakk but instead the Kannonwagon for the BS4.

 deffrekka wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
@Jidmah, @Blackie, @Tomsug

Ill be using a large magnet at your behest. Thank you.

Also my Big Trakk, warboss on warbike and the Supa Kannon arrived today.

Holy F the supa kannon is massive? its longer than some peoples erected penises. its super long considering its meant for a figure game. Im not sure how im meant to hide my Supa kannon, i mean what is it, like 10 centimeters long on its own? then standing on a Big Trakk makes it kind of impossible to hide. It will be shot at from all angles as im guessing, they can see the top of the gun, they can hit my unit?

Anyway i havent assembled it yet. i just saw a massivel barrel and though: oh lord, that is long.

Back in the day it was the Orky equivalent of the Earth Shaker Cannon from the Basilisk. It was str 9 ap 3 primary weapon large blast. It wasnt meant to be a small model, its and Ork weapon, bigger is better. I wouldnt use the Supa Kannon on the Big Trakk but instead the Kannonwagon for the BS4.

Oh yea totally but i dont own any battlewagons yet sadly. I saw the new Kannonwagon profile and thought: nice.

So yea ill be putting it on that when the time comes.

Supa Kannon is also a perfect count as for Da Boomer.

Regarding playing against the necron player, his list is designed to hold objectives and control the middle of the board. New necrons are durable, 20 warriors is hard to shift. His list is close combat oriented. He is not trying to take out your vehicles, he will probably go after your troops and then just out score you.

russellmoo wrote:
Regarding playing against the necron player, his list is designed to hold objectives and control the middle of the board. New necrons are durable, 20 warriors is hard to shift. His list is close combat oriented. He is not trying to take out your vehicles, he will probably go after your troops and then just out score you.

I think thatthis is where my list worked well. Turn 1 I formed a wall in front of him, which then held him back for a turn whilst I grabbed objectives. From there, it made it a bit easier for me to control the board, claiming objectives and denying him from taking any. Next time I may drop the mek guns and take more boys, for more board control. I may also sacrifice the faster movement for deffskull rerolls and invulns. S5 AP-2 shooting is really beastly when your army is T5 with 4+ saves, so more boys - more redundancy for his guns!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just had a bit of a random thought for an army build, which is a bit of a rehash of the old battlewagon rush which used to work.

I'm considering 3 battlewagons, each with 2 units of 10 boys in them. The boys will have tankbusta bomms, a rokkit launcha and a kombi-rokkit nob in each.

The result is a trio of wagons, each of which puts out 4 rokkit shots, and potentially 2 tankbusta bomms if range suits, and contains 2 separate units of objective-secured troops. Potentially, one unit of boys could be swapped for something else. A more expensive option would be Tankbustas. 10 tankbustas and 10 boys means 12 rokkits per wagon, which is quite beastly.

Tankbustas aside, has anyone played around with fielding 2 units of 10 boys in wagons? The disadvantages I can see is that you can't squeeze a character in, and that boys rarely make a big impact when they arrive. My goal would be to drop them on objectives which need contesting, and screen them with the wagon from hostile fire, then pick them back up if the threat has been eliminated and the wagon can hold the objective instead. Or, drop one unit off on an objective and throw the other unit + wagon at the enemy to give them a couple of turns of holding it. Midfield objectives can be grabbed on turn 1 if you disembark 1 unit 3" forward and then move 5" + D6", you've a good chance of getting within 3" of an objective with the boys. Alternatively, contest objective with the wagon on turn 1 then drop the boys off turn 2 before rolling on.

I want to make my wagons more useful, I have too many to leave them sat on the shelf!

 Jidmah wrote:
"Some mechanized elements" doesn't work for orks though. You either bring infantry in masses, or you bring vehicles in masses.
If you mix the two, your opponent's guns will be too efficient at killing your army and you will end up losing most of your units too quickly. A single bonebreaker will just end up destroyed by your opponent's anti-tank turn one and your MANz need to go on by foot. If you want a bonebreaker with MANz to be part of your army, you need to provide more targets, like trukks, planes, buggies or walkers that draw fire from your 300+ point investment.
That's why I said you need to decide - the single battlewagon/trukk in an infantry list is an extremely common mistake for new players to make, frankly because GW keeps displaying them to be used that way.

You can get away with fielding a few vehicles in an infantry list when you put them into the tellyporta, dreads or a gorkanaut are good examples of this.

The reason I suggested MANz and mek guns was because you can put them in any kind of list - despite being weak to anti-tank guns they are durable enough per points spent to not care.

For an infantry list, your next buys would be two more units of boyz (and thus more tankbustas) and maybe convert some kommandoz, they are fairly essential to infantry strategy right now.

Ahh got you, well I am eventually planning on picking up five thousand points of them to match my Krieg initially I'll start with an infantry list and then expand to different Army builds from there

Some bloke - I take 10 naked boyz with pure choppas incl choppa nob to be super cheap. And than megamek with KFF, or warboss, or Kaptin Balrduk.

The idea behind is simple. Boyz dies. They rarely do some damages. Rockets, or even kombi rockets are super expensive. Their ROI is terribel in my experience. Mostly shoot ones and hits nothing.

On other hand boosted megamek and boosted warboss hits like a hell and can fight twice or even three times a round. And are hard to kill. And easy to hide. And kaptin Baldruk is durable super plasma dude for cheap money.

So I push transports forward, opponent destroy one of them at least, than I use Emergency disembark a put characters 6” away in cover, kill some of my cheap boyz and use them to obsec and cover the characters. They come to close combat, so no chance to shoot some rockets more time.

So this is a scenario how to use transports to conquer the objectives.

Can be done with 3-5 MANz instead of characters.


I have a problem with trukks or wagons with shooting crew. Shooting vehicles like scrapjets or gunwagons do the job better for less money. And you can 't use strategems etc on shooting bustas in trukk. Plus you offer opponents both types of target and makes him effective.

I think, now the role of infantry in transport is to be transported to the objective and control him = not die and hold in CC.

But if your plan isnt to expect your boyz to kill anything, why not use Grots instead?

Gives you more room for expensive toys.

I dont use boyz with the intention of them dying, i mean i know they will but i also expect them to actually kill something before it happens. And for the most part, they do.

Beardragon - good point, bad explanation on my side, sorry....

I do expect to kill something with the boyz. My boyz kill opponents GEQ infantry used to capture the objective. So they competeing with the same rank.

I do not expect boyz kills anything tough like elite infantry, or vehicles.

Plus the grots die even much much faster and do not have the obsec via deathskulls. T4 6++ holds more than T2 6+....

Sometimes I give the boy nob a killsaw or PK. This is the only weapon, that do something... sometimes. If I have some points left, this is the way. And of course tankbusta bomb, it ' a for free, so why not give it a try...

 gmaleron wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Can't go wrong with that, just make sure to buy a plastic shamans from AoS like the weird nob instead of the weird boy - it's a fincast model that is extremely likely to be heavily damaged. Or try to get a metal one from ebay, but they have gotten quite expensive recently.

Other than that, the best bets would probably be MANz or mek guns, just make sure to magnetize the guns on the later - there are some great tutorials for that if you look for them.

I'm not so sure about Mek Guns, I know they are a great unit but the price tag on the makes me hesitate getting any especially in high enough numbers

Have you considered scratch building? Or kit bashing? One Mek Gun + one Trukk = four Mek Gun.

Moriarty wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Can't go wrong with that, just make sure to buy a plastic shamans from AoS like the weird nob instead of the weird boy - it's a fincast model that is extremely likely to be heavily damaged. Or try to get a metal one from ebay, but they have gotten quite expensive recently.

Other than that, the best bets would probably be MANz or mek guns, just make sure to magnetize the guns on the later - there are some great tutorials for that if you look for them.

I'm not so sure about Mek Guns, I know they are a great unit but the price tag on the makes me hesitate getting any especially in high enough numbers

Have you considered scratch building? Or kit bashing? One Mek Gun + one Trukk = four Mek Gun.

I've actually never heard of that before I'll have to take a look, one of the reasons I wanted to Orks in the first place is to do some whacky stuff

Well known trukk&mekgun combo gives you 4x something like a mek gun, but honestly, most of such conversions looks gakky, sorry guys. And you need 4 same tips to spam one type of mekgun, so biggest problem not solved.

My personal plan for mek gun kitbashing is spark plug, spare tracks from scrapjets, chasis from ps card and grizzles, tips from bits, etc. For example smashagun tip could be done from cards, rivets and wire.

Or use some kids carroon style tanks like a chasis.

 Tomsug wrote:
Well known trukk&mekgun combo gives you 4x something like a mek gun, but honestly, most of such conversions looks gakky, sorry guys. And you need 4 same tips to spam one type of mekgun, so biggest problem not solved.

My personal plan for mek gun kitbashing is spark plug, spare tracks from scrapjets, chasis from ps card and grizzles, tips from bits, etc. For example smashagun tip could be done from cards, rivets and wire.

Or use some kids carroon style tanks like a chasis.

You could get around this with Ork Logic of "they believe this is what it does" also in my experience as long as you say everything is the same gun there is zero issues

I agree that you dont need the same looking weapon.

I personally liked the way the tractor kannon looked like so im using that for my Mek gun, even though i use it as a Smasha gun.

If you have a smasha gun, traktor kannon, and a kustom mega blasta model, you can still use them as smasha guns id say.

Well, I believe it is fine, to have a good looking model. If you have 6 same models on the list, it' s fine to have 6 models looking like a same type of weapon on the table. “Anything could be a smashagun” is pretty common comment in my area and it is not a nice comment. So be creative, but careful.

But we are out of the topic of this thread.

Beardedragon wrote:
I agree that you dont need the same looking weapon.

I personally liked the way the tractor kannon looked like so im using that for my Mek gun, even though i use it as a Smasha gun.

If you have a smasha gun, traktor kannon, and a kustom mega blasta model, you can still use them as smasha guns id say.

Hopefully you are okay with marine player using plasma gun, melta gun and flamer all as plasma gun as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AarresaariAarre wrote:

While the list doesn't seem very hard, it has many units (and potential synergies) that I'm not familiar with at all. I'm not sure how to prioritize my targets. Is that flyer a potential T1 threat, as many fliers seem to be? Scarabs have ObSec and 36 wounds, but are surprisingly easy to beat with model count. Do they have some nasty trick I should be aware of? Warriors and Lychguard both I have faced before, same with Immortals. I don't think my list is particularly weak against them. About Destoyers I have no countable information at all. Are they the long-range AT his list seems to otherwise lack?

Okay from necron POV.

a) that flier can be used in multiple ways but T1 charge if he goes first? Nope not really. Likely unit inside is lychguard. 3"+7"+2d6" is absolutely max he can reach. Albeit he can get reroll charge. Another potential use is get 20 warriors with 12" assault 2 S5 -2 weapons into range. Either those and lychguard with veil or reverse. He's more of T1 charge if you approach first. Or he can do T2 charge from inside. OR there's another way. Pay attention when he declares reserves. If warriors or lychguard go to strategic reserve he can pull them from reserves within 3" of night scythe regardless of how close your units are! If he is on board with flyer and can move he can get those lychguard within 1.1" of you out of reserves! Or if he's worried about your shooting and/or minimum move(if you move close in manouvering flyer into good spot can be hard as I found today vs Bile's creations) he can spend 1 more CP to put whole flyer into reserve(or move offboard T1 or use deceiver's ability to put it to reserve. There's some arguments does it cost CP to put to reserve like that) and then come out of reserve 9" from enemy and put lychguard/warriors up to 3" from flyer with 6" charge to you! Keep in mind of that. If he goes for this(total CP cost 4. 2 for putting lychguard to reserve, 1 to put night scythe, 1 for the stratagem to put lychguard via flyer) there's literally no way to prevent him from getting 6" charge. All you can do is use screens to guard most vital units or be inside transport and accept you will lose the transport. You can't screen entire board there's nowhere to deepstrike.

And that unit will strike 3-5(depending on does he pay 0-2 CP and for 1 attack needs noble nearby) attacks at S7 or S8(depending on does he use stratagem for 1CP) at -5(if charged/charging etc) damage flat 2. In otherwords they mince anything you have if they charge. Good news is they are just T5 2 wounds 3+ no invulnerable save, no -1 to hit etc so it's not super durable. Just keep in mind they charge, they kill anything they touch from you. So don't let him get that 6" charge to your key unit too easily!

Deceiver can hurt single models so tanks, characters etc real hard and keep in mind you can cause only 3 wounds per phase. Keep ramming speed stratagem in mind and worth shooting some random shots. Even 1 wound to negate living metal's effect can be worth it.

Destroyers are very good tank busters if they get to combat with full strength. I have faced those myself and they make mincemeat by sheer number of attacks that basically ignores your armour(-3 or -4 depending on weapon) with flat2 or 3 damages with S8. Only issue they have is they are just 8" with no run and charge so getting into melee can be issue. Also no inv save so anything you have that shoots at S5+ multi damage threatens them seriously.

Swarms are very good objective holders and cheap wounds(cheaper than grots per wound and T3!). With 4 attack per base and 6 to hit is auto wound they can also do surprising dent. Also being obsec and 6" pregame move they will take control of objectives. With chronomancer deathwatch aggressors in tabletop titans failed to kill more than like 2 base...

And warriors will basically murder any light armoured infantry you have if you don't charge them first(12" range. Remember that). They will average about 3 meganobz if you let them fire with full strength. On charge they can also do surprising amount of damage. Ditto for immortals with 2 S4 -1 attack each unbuffed.

Your best news is his AT is super thin and it's all in melee so your transports basically get to do their job...So don't let his warriors fire at will. Try to keep lychguard and skorpek destroyers away from your key units. He'll probably try to get you to commit vs scarabs as anvil(don't laugh. They are cheap wounds. That's 36 wounds cheaper than grots would provide 36 wounds) and then lychguard and skorpeks come in and murder in melee.

Myself as necron I would prefer have SOMETHING to bust transports/gunboats from range. Giving enemy transports 100% efficiency sucks for my taste.

Were i to bet i would put odds in your favour though could be　wrong. But as necron　i would like to have way to　bust battlewagon before charge phase of necron turn 2. Now i would be worried you get to do initial charges and cripple key necron threats.

I have never seen anyone use a flamer as a plasma gun.

Furthermore, basically none, except those who play orks, knows what the difference in appearence between a smasha gun and traktor kannon looks like so it doesnt matter.

Secondly, Orks delve in conversions more so than anyone, so its within the realm of the lore that your weapons dont 100% look like the items you get in your kits.

As long as it makes sense, it should be okay.

Thirdly, i have never had, even a single person telling me that what im using doesnt make sense. None even knows im using parts of the traktor kannon (the 3 arms pointing towards the shooting point) and parts of the smasha gun (those coils) and just use it generally as a smasha gun.

In fact i could use the kustom mega blasta and none would probably still take notice to it. none cares because its a friendly game where we just play and have fun. Once i forgot an ork boy at home and my opponent told me just to use one of my ammo runts.

Theres nothing wrong with him using different looking guns for his Mek Gunz as long as they look like they are salvaged, because thats what orks are all about. And then Mek Gunz, they are probably some of the most converted ork things out there, next to vehicles. and as long as it also makes sense and is balanced (eg. using a model that would somewhat have the same size as the original one to avoid cheating). Flame thrower to plasma gun? doesnt make sense, but if someone told me they did that, i wouldnt care. I just wanna play.

 Grimskul wrote:

tulun wrote:
I bet the Mork / Gork get the monolith treatment.

They are freaking bigger than a Kill Tank.

LoW just need to be not so.. inaccessible.

I seriously hope not. If they do, at least give them the Titanic keyword then.

I expect both of these things to happen.

18 wound dread is now not really that survivable, especially at the cost of 340 points. The Mork / Gork are basically the mini-Knights. Are they the same size as the Armiger?

I think they'll get substantial buffs in durability but become LoW (or if we're lucky, 24+ wounds and stay heavy...)

tneva82 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I agree that you dont need the same looking weapon.

I personally liked the way the tractor kannon looked like so im using that for my Mek gun, even though i use it as a Smasha gun.

If you have a smasha gun, traktor kannon, and a kustom mega blasta model, you can still use them as smasha guns id say.

Hopefully you are okay with marine player using plasma gun, melta gun and flamer all as plasma gun as well.

I am totally ok with that... pay the points and as long as it's vaguely similar in model silhouette and weapon slot - ex. plasma/melta/flamer are all special weapons and all similarly sized ish - I am for whatever gets my opponent to try new builds that they may not have exactly the right models for. I totally let my friend stick his kytan ravager body on top of a landraider chassis to represent a lord of skulls.

tulun wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

tulun wrote:
I bet the Mork / Gork get the monolith treatment.

They are freaking bigger than a Kill Tank.

LoW just need to be not so.. inaccessible.

I seriously hope not. If they do, at least give them the Titanic keyword then.

I expect both of these things to happen.

18 wound dread is now not really that survivable, especially at the cost of 340 points. The Mork / Gork are basically the mini-Knights. Are they the same size as the Armiger?

I think they'll get substantial buffs in durability but become LoW (or if we're lucky, 24+ wounds and stay heavy...)

I would be totally fine with that. But sadly have doubts it'll happen. Didn't they have 2 less "Structure points" back in 7th compared to the imperial knights?

On the other hand if they gave us a few naught specific stratagems and keep the Kustom jobs system with the codex I'll be a happy warboss.

nauts are considerably larger than armigers.
Theyre actually not much smaller than knights

Honestly they're not even that much smaller than stompas. Like, they don't come up to their shoulders but they aren't down to their knees either.

(Sorry, I am very much part of the naut fanclub. Just love the fluff of these roving sellsword nobs or mad meks that got booted out of their clan.)