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Crowd sourced worked well for KOW and having played this version of DZI It works well here too.
The "Setting Up" section is right before the "Playing the Game" section. It would be a long book if it continually referenced every prior page on the current page.

The whole first half of the book, minus fluff is the basic section. The advanced rules come after missions.

Times are tough all a round and I do feel for people in the industry struggling for work. Aren't editors like 50-100k american a year though? That would have been a significant portion of the kickstarter funds if that's right. I would have been very unhappy if they spent 15-30% of the money on that, and I'm assuming that would hold true for a lot of people.

Crowd sourcing allows for products that couldn't exist in the same form otherwise. Small spelling and grammatical errors are a small price to pay for a better refined rule-set. EDIT: looks like this might not matter anyway.

EDIT:
@Squig
Are there any specific instances of a fixed error on any of the pages shown that you know for sure has been fixed?

You don't need to have a full time editor on staff in order to get a professional final pass on your rulebook.

http://www.the-efa.org/res/rates.php

Edit: As for KOW, I appreciate that the rules are free, and thus I hold them to a lower standard, but still: "to make yours forces" on page 1? And really, they're only free in order to get you to hopefully buy models from Mantic, so it behooves them to have them be the best they can be.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Think Mantic might have used an older pdf to take those sample pages from, those are definitely things that got cleaned up in our proofreading pass, we sorted out nearly around 160 errors in total.

Right, but which one did they send to the printers?

You'll find out in a few months!

skarsol wrote:
You don't need to have a full time editor on staff in order to get a professional final pass on your rulebook.

http://www.the-efa.org/res/rates.php

Edit: As for KOW, I appreciate that the rules are free, and thus I hold them to a lower standard, but still: "to make yours forces" on page 1? And really, they're only free in order to get you to hopefully buy models from Mantic, so it behooves them to have them be the best they can be.

There is a free pdf version.. there is also an expensive deluxe edition which presumably has the same errors..

The Kings of War rules are simply excellent from what I've seen so far. Both the PDF and hard copy are extremely enjoyable to use. I think Mantic can be knocked for quite a few things (art direction, response time) but since the rule committee's involvement, the rules aren't one of them!

Grammar catches are fair, of course... but just wanted to note that regarding the quality of those books (both the main KoW rules and Uncharted Empires).

That's the thing, running into grammer issues so early/often makes me lose interest in pursuing the rules further. But I'm likely more persnickety about that than most. ;P

skarsol wrote:
That's the thing, running into grammer issues so early/often makes me lose interest in pursuing the rules further. But I'm likely more persnickety about that than most. ;P

Isn't it spelled grammar?

Zing!

Usually, yes. Luckily, I'm pretty sure this isn't for publication. ;P

The figures look good, actually, but to echo what others have said there's something about the studio paint job that doesn't quite work. I thought the Ogre terminator was supposed to be based on the Dreadball Ogre, though? It looks very different. I like it though. I've got two coming for some reason

I seem to remember something about Mantic saying they were going to use dice rather than die for the singular. Something about not wanting to confuse matters in a game where people die alot? If so then in proofreading/editing terms presumably it isn't a bug, it's a feature (to horribly misuse a phrase)

I thought I remembered the Ogre Terminator was a fan design from someone who bought one of the super expensive pledges, and the art/renders proved so popular they let everyone buy it, but I don't see any of those pledge levels

Huh I thought that was a concept a fan had made and sent to mantic. I dunno though I might have been asleep for it.

@Taaloc
It might have something to do with fantasy stuff generally following that palette or whatever. I see the appeal but... I don't really hate it, same with the Veermyn, a more sci-fi paint job really would change the the tone.

The marauder seems extra bright to me. The ogre and the Lancer seems to be closer in line with what I want in Sci-fi paint jobs.

I hope we get the same kind of support as KOW has gotten with the new minis now and then.

 NTRabbit wrote:
I thought I remembered the Ogre Terminator was a fan design from someone who bought one of the super expensive pledges, and the art/renders proved so popular they let everyone buy it, but I don't see any of those pledge levels

As I remember it, it wasn´t an official pledge level, rather it was a individual arrangement between Mantic and a fan with big pockets

Fair enough then, I'm sure I remember it having something to do with the dreadball ogre!

They used the silhouette of the Dreadball Ogre Grak as a place holder to give an idea of size as there was no design at that time the design was to be based off the look of Grak and Buzzcut the Dreadball Spogres.

I hope the head is separate as I planned to swap in a spare Grak head.

We’ve been contacted in the private messages about doing a new backer-created figure. Our backer has chosen to create a figure based on Grak and Buzzcut from our DreadBall range, armed with a bladed mini-gun.


Grak, from DreadBall.

Our backer requested that this Ogre Terminator be a special unit choice that can be hired by multiple factions - in fact, every faction except the Plague can choose him if they want the extra support this brute will bring.

He has suggested that backers might like the opportunity to add it on before the campaign closes, and so we wanted to ask you if you'd like that? As it was only confirmed today we've not been able to get any concept art together for this miniature and we're not going to be able to include it free in any pledge levels, so we wanted to check first. Let us know in the comments what you think.

So we were all partially right!

 Taaloc wrote:
I seem to remember something about Mantic saying they were going to use dice rather than die for the singular. Something about not wanting to confuse matters in a game where people die alot? If so then in proofreading/editing terms presumably it isn't a bug, it's a feature (to horribly misuse a phrase)

That's fine, but then the places where they *do* use die become the error that needs to be fixed.

Edit: Of note, they haven't responded for a full business day, so I have no great hopes of this just being a minor mistake.

Is it wrong of me to want the Rules Committee to go back over Dungeon Saga?

I like what they did with Kings of War, Deadzone looks like it will follow similarly...

Seems like having them tackle Dungeon Saga (the Adventurer's Companion specifically) would probably cool a lot of jets out there that are unhappy with the way the book turned out.

Speaking for myself, at this point the Mantic has turned me off of all their stuff minus KOW. That's due to the rules committee and not having to field Mantic models. Mantic needs more levels of checking and double checking and rechecking. That's one spot where GW still has an edge, the other notable one being customer service.

It would probably upset people even more (unless Mantic also provided free, shipped, hard copies of everything)

nothing like retail customers getting something better than the KS backers that made the whole thing possible to get people angrier

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Is it wrong of me to want the Rules Committee to go back over Dungeon Saga?
I like what they did with Kings of War, Deadzone looks like it will follow similarly...
Seems like having them tackle Dungeon Saga (the Adventurer's Companion specifically) would probably cool a lot of jets out there that are unhappy with the way the book turned out.

Give it 6-8-15 months for Mantic to decide to re-release it with a new KS campaign... Then the RC can edit it and fix Jake's phoned-in rules in their volunteer/unpaid capacity.

That's what I was thinking. A year or so from now, after most of the original KS stuff has seen retail release, I can totally picture them doing a new standalone box set.

Hopefully if we end up seeing that Project Pandora remake that's been talked about in wishful tones throughout the last few campaigns they've ran, the Rules Committee will be there in full force to make sure things are airtight upon release.

It seems extremely unwise to rely on the RC in such a great capacity... There's a reason people get a salary for their work, it's because you can hold them accountable and you can always count on them being there. Having community-run play testing is fine but letting them basically re-write your rules seems unprofessional and subject to any number of potential problems. Of course I'm not privy to what goes on and am simply going off what I've read on dakka, so correct me if I'm wrong.

With their dependence on Kickstarter and unpaid labor, as well as their Prodos level of unshipped rewards/replacements, I've heard speculation that Mantic might be having financial difficulties. Unfortunately, that has more and more of the ring of truth about it.

I wouldn't be surprised, seeing as their biggest game by far is one that has most people using other companies models.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
With their dependence on Kickstarter and unpaid labor, as well as their Prodos level of unshipped rewards/replacements, I've heard speculation that Mantic might be having financial difficulties. Unfortunately, that has more and more of the ring of truth about it.

Unless 2015 was a poor year and with KoW and DS releasing I doubt it, they have increased cash reserves and net worth year on year from 2010 to 2014
https://companycheck.co.uk/company/06770093/MANTIC-ENTERTAINMENT-LIMITED/financial-accounts
2015 accounts aren't due until September

Thanks for allaying my fears. However, it does raise the question of just what is happening behind the Restic Curtain if money isn't the issue.

They're quite simply doing too much stuff at once,

but of course not doing anything for 6-12 months (except finishing things off properly) would cause a financial hit so it;'s a tricky balancing act

 DaveC wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
With their dependence on Kickstarter and unpaid labor, as well as their Prodos level of unshipped rewards/replacements, I've heard speculation that Mantic might be having financial difficulties. Unfortunately, that has more and more of the ring of truth about it.

Unless 2015 was a poor year and with KoW and DS releasing I doubt it, they have increased cash reserves and net worth year on year from 2010 to 2014
https://companycheck.co.uk/company/06770093/MANTIC-ENTERTAINMENT-LIMITED/financial-accounts
2015 accounts aren't due until September

Then that points to incompetence.. Sorry to be so blunt but there's not really any dancing around it..

oh wait.. it could also be force majure lololol (G&G Battleboard Backers no what I mean..)