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Eh, you really don't need long range on a JSJ platform, especially one with move through cover so it can casually hop up levels and be a ton harder to assault.

I suppose that if you play with a horrendously low amount of terrain it might be an issue.

Actually i have really bad luck doing the JSJ tactics to keep a distance.

Thats why my Stealthsuit squad kinda became a midfield Markerlight platform. I always, ALWAYS either flopped the jump saves from the terrain or ended up rolling 2-4" on the jump and totally didnt get away.

Also why i tend to dislike crisis suit bombs. I can never seem to keep them alive beyond the first turn, even with drone blobs for extra wounds. Just can never seem to be close enough for rapid fire plasma or Melta bonus and jump far enough away to dodge a charge or a short range nasty gun.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Except it isn't. no current tau formation mixes both hammerheads and skyrays.

Look here:

http://www.northerngamer.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=234&fullsize=1

 Kanluwen wrote:

Fair enough, but why did they put it out now? I thought that formation thing went extinct and I don't see a way to field all four tanks in a base codex list D:

We're supposed to see a new Codex soon. It might be that it got put up early or they just don't care. I posted up the "Oc-tau-ber is here" thing that they posted on the Warhammer App which basically says "New Codex and Supplements!", so I think they're trying to actually put the word out more than a week in advance for some stuff.


The fact that the product description on the AIC says the following?

This awesome bundle gives you everything you need in order to field the Armoured Interdiction Cadre, as found in Codex: Tau Empire.

It basically all but smacks you upside the head and says "THIS IS A FORMATION IN THE NEW TAU EMPIRE CODEX!!!1!"--yes, in all caps as well.

Speaking of formations, if Riptides get the squadron of 3 treatment i wonder how the formation of 3 Riptides is going to be affected. That formation was basically 3 Riptides in a "squad" without being in a squad (larger unit coherency rules) and rerollable nova charges.

....so...multiply by 3 for 9 Riptides in the formation? O.o

 Vineheart01 wrote:
So the Cyclic Ion Raker doesnt seem that astounding to me. 6 shots is nice and all, but AP4/24" range. How come the Ion Rifle has 30" range but this vastly bigger gun has 24?

Curious. I've seen Knight players fearing this thing.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Get those, and its infinitely nastier than the IA,

HBC can't beat S8 AP2 Interceptor Large Blast. It's one of the main reasons people loathe the Riptide. Without Farsight Enclaves' Earth Caste Pilot Array, I'd never field a HBC Riptide.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Its not bad, but compared to the 6 shots of the normal firing method i dont think its "better" to justify the Gets Hot risk.

When you find packed enemies, a Large Blast is much better than 6 single shots. Or multi-wound T4- models.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Theyre not MC's, so once the Ghostkeels die (if the drones somehow survive afterwords) they can have a commander attach to them and make the commander have stealth + shroud. Unlikely to be useful but interesting thought.

An Ethereal would love to join those drones

Oh yeah, Ethereals too. Considering i usually leave mine in the car (devilfish) whenever i field one because Firewarrior squads get mopped up too fast when hes in it.

Please....for the love of all Holy....please stop using all the acronyms. This is a forum not text chatting hehe What the heck is an HBC?

And on a side note where are the rules for the remora drones?

HBC is heavy burst cannon.

Heavy Burst Cannon.

 Fishboy wrote:
Please....for the love of all Holy....please stop using all the acronyms. This is a forum not text chatting hehe What the heck is an HBC?

And on a side note where are the rules for the remora drones?

Heavy Burst Cannon - the Riptide's stock weapon (big-ass chaingun).

Remora's rules are in the Imperial Armour 3 - The Taros Campaign (2nd edition)

Yoyoyo wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Except it isn't. no current tau formation mixes both hammerheads and skyrays.

Look here:

http://www.northerngamer.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=234&fullsize=1

That thing is not current.

I am still technically correct



Hummm...its pretty much like damocles hammerhead cadre. if it stays like this, I'm probably fielding this.

Auto marker hits are the bane of invisiblity/flyers. now to just hope markers can still buff snapshots, and that railguns gets the much needed upgrade.

 BoomWolf wrote:
That thing is not current.

I am still technically correct

As we all know, there's nothing more important than showing someone else you're correct on the internet

Okay reading the full rule set on BOLS the forced snap fire is frigging awesome. Once per game a model with this rule may use it. This means if you have three of these things in a unit you get to use it three times. I want nine...and only because I can't afford 18 heheh....anyone need a Kidney or blood hehehe

 Fishboy wrote:
Okay reading the full rule set on BOLS the forced snap fire is frigging awesome. Once per game a model with this rule may use it. This means if you have three of these things in a unit you get to use it three times. I want nine...and only because I can't afford 18 heheh....anyone need a Kidney or blood hehehe

Maybe, maybe not.

I got a feeling they will. None of our new stuff has been any sort of anti-tank units. I suppose our only hopes left are 1. Breachers are anti tank infaantry? Maybe? or 2. A new weapon for the reboxed XV8, but that's still relying on XV8's and whatever new weapon they might get. 3. An existing unit is buffed to be a good anti-tank/tough big thing unit. I'm hoping our rail rifles

Though I find option three to to be the most likely.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Fishboy wrote:
Okay reading the full rule set on BOLS the forced snap fire is frigging awesome. Once per game a model with this rule may use it. This means if you have three of these things in a unit you get to use it three times. I want nine...and only because I can't afford 18 heheh....anyone need a Kidney or blood hehehe

Maybe, maybe not.

Not to make this a YMDC discussion or derail the thread, but it very clearly says a model with the holophoton countermeasures may use them when the unit is targeted, and the whole unit benefits from it. The only way to read it (from my perspective at least, so take it as you will) as all 3 must be used at once is to ignore the first half of the description.

Read the linked post where it shows that the rules say the following:

Declare that the unit will use the holophotonic countermeasures

'Unit', not 'model'.

Looking at the leaked pics right now. The exact wording is:

Once per battle, in the enemy shooting phase, a model (emphasis mine) equipped with holophoton countermeasures can disrupt the targeting systems used by one enemy unit that is targeting it or the unit it belongs to. Declare that the unit will use the holophoton countermeasures after the enemy unit has chosen it as a target, but before any hit rolls are made. The enemy unit can only make snap shots in that shooting phase.

From my reading of it, the rule states that a single model with the countermeasures can choose to activate it, and the whole unit gets the benefit, hence the usage of the word unit in the second sentence, otherwise the wording would imply that only the one model would get the benefit, and the other Ghostkeels and the Drones would not benefit from it. I can see how it could be read the other way as you are saying and they all have to be used at once, but doing so does require you to ignore the whole first sentence of the description.

Nope. It clearly says to declare that "... the unit will use the holophoton countermeasures..." You want it to say 'model' when it clearly says 'unit'.

 GI_Redshirt wrote:
Looking at the leaked pics right now. The exact wording is:

Once per battle, in the enemy shooting phase, a model (emphasis mine) equipped with holophoton countermeasures can disrupt the targeting systems used by one enemy unit that is targeting it or the unit it belongs to. Declare that the unit will use the holophoton countermeasures after the enemy unit has chosen it as a target, but before any hit rolls are made. The enemy unit can only make snap shots in that shooting phase.

From my reading of it, the rule states that a single model with the countermeasures can choose to activate it, and the whole unit gets the benefit, hence the usage of the word unit in the second sentence, otherwise the wording would imply that only the one model would get the benefit, and the other Ghostkeels and the Drones would not benefit from it. I can see how it could be read the other way as you are saying and they all have to be used at once, but doing so does require you to ignore the whole first sentence of the description.

. I'm reading it the way you are too.

Nice more rules debates already.

But back to the ghostkeel.

I kind of like the model, as a big stealth suit is a cool concept.

I am a bit ...underwhelmed with the rules - just as many others are.
Its not ...bad...its just not....good. Again, what is the role for this thing?


What does it bring to the table we don't have already?
18" melta on a jsj platform - got that
S7ap4 on a jsj platform - got that.

Stealthy MC - ok, thats new....

So...its for when you have an opponnent with a LOT of krak missiles (which kill the other options...).

I can maybe see it as a point where I chose durability (the 2+ stealth save) over firepower and I want a JSJ melta/Missile pod.

In my experience in the current game, I need to firepower more - perhaps once we have the entire codex, and the context of all the new units / formations - it will find a solid role.

It might be a good firemagnet / distraction unit....after all, I have said time and time again - you don't have to beat the enemy army - you just have to defeat the other player - and getting them to make mistakes in target priority - is one of the best ways.

Here is hoping the book is good with a lot of strong builds, but not OP.

Seems like a rules debate that should be relocated to the proper forum - I think this'll carry on for awhile.

Ghostkeel looks great, I'm hoping there'll be some kind of Stealth formation that combines it with Stealth suits

@ Krazynade- As am I however I can see the contention as well. Either way I am hoping this is a good counter to Grav spam. Majority armor 4+, 2+ cover, drones to soak up wounds, at least one round of firing basically with invisibility, good AP 2 weapon to get past Cents. I like it. I am dreaming about the formations now heheh.

 Kanluwen wrote:
To be fair, Genestealers did not exactly have a Sergeant option already. The Fire Warriors do.

They didn't, and still don't need one.

God-damned Tyranid codices...

Yeah, that is definitely another debate intended to shaft poor wording. Makes 0 sense to force you to buy 3 holophotons if you have to use them simo. Kinda like the debate about GMC's firing two or all weapons considering the wording is fuzzy yet damn near every GMC is loaded in small arms for some reason.
I despise RAW discussions. Considering GW doesnt write their rules for tournament play, there can never be a solid answer for a TON of rule discussions. The game is much more enjoyable/fun if you just play logically not RAW.
And yes i have ruled logically against me as well. All to avoid such pointless RAW discussions.

Back to the Ghostkeel.

Admittedly the Melta-combo may not be a sure-fire antivehicle tactic, its better than crisis suits doing it since its insanely unlikely the Ghostkeel squad will die after getting the double-armor pen benefits of Melta. Yea its a bit more expensive but im probably still going to do it lol.
Find it odd the Ghostkeel doesnt have Infiltrate, unless im just completely missing something (such as what the hell Fire Team means). However it can still deepstrike and jsj. Perhaps we will finally have deepstriking MC's that are worth deepstriking?

....now that i say that i realize they have a huge footprint in a full squad LOL nevermind!

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah, that is definitely another debate intended to shaft poor wording. Makes 0 sense to force you to buy 3 holophotons if you have to use them simo. Kinda like the debate about GMC's firing two or all weapons considering the wording is fuzzy yet damn near every GMC is loaded in small arms for some reason.
I despise RAW discussions. Considering GW doesnt write their rules for tournament play, there can never be a solid answer for a TON of rule discussions. The game is much more enjoyable/fun if you just play logically not RAW.
And yes i have ruled logically against me as well. All to avoid such pointless RAW discussions.

Back to the Ghostkeel.

Admittedly the Melta-combo may not be a sure-fire antivehicle tactic, its better than crisis suits doing it since its insanely unlikely the Ghostkeel squad will die after getting the double-armor pen benefits of Melta. Yea its a bit more expensive but im probably still going to do it lol.
Find it odd the Ghostkeel doesnt have Infiltrate, unless im just completely missing something (such as what the hell Fire Team means). However it can still deepstrike and jsj. Perhaps we will finally have deepstriking MC's that are worth deepstriking?

....now that i say that i realize they have a huge footprint in a full squad LOL nevermind!

The rules are clear: the whole unit must do so to gain the effect. This is what allows the drones attached to the Ghostkeel to also benefit from the effect.

I don't see squads of Ghostkeels DS-ing in, but a single one should prove quite potent and effective.

Honestly, I can see it either way. It is very awkward wording.


I'm sure GW will FAQ it.

Lolololololol

Back on topic, I definitely plan on using these guys as a unit of 2 or 3 with Ion Rakers and TL Fusion. A unit of 3 puts out 6 more S7 shots than both 3 man Broadside Team and 3 man Crisis Team with Missile Pods. And does it with a single weapon, meaning it can still fire it's second weapon as well. Granted, it is doing so at 24" instead of 36", but a Ghostkeel team is more than survivable enough to get closer to the enemy. Plus the S8 large blast is a great bonus, and even with AP4 will still scare T4 characters.

The Fusion blaster seems like the obvious choice to me. 3 TL S8 AP1 shots is quite good for assassinating characters and backup anti-tank, especially since TL reduces the need for markerlights. Use the Ion Raker to whittle down a squad of meatshields or strip hull points, then use the Fusion to finish off the character or tank. The Flamer just doesn't seem worth it. Too short ranged, and overwatching with these guys doesn't seem like a big deal, as they are arguably the best CC unit Tau has now, and anything that can reliably beat them in CC won't care about 3 flamers on overwatch. The only time I'd use it is if I were strapped for points. The TL BC isn't bad, making the Ghostkeels supped up Broadsides, but 18" S5 doesn't really feel necessary with these guys, unless you're facing a horde army. I'd rather have the added punch on meltas.

The double melta option just doesn't work for me. More reliable than dual fusion blaster Crisis Suits (blasts and TL make markerlights less necessary and are more likely the hit than 2 normal shots), but without DSing are gonna have a hard time getting in range to use them, and simply have too big of a footprint to DS effectively (pretty sure a 3 man Crisis Team has a smaller overall footrpint than one Ghostkeel). Against a TEQ army like Deathwing, Grey Knights, or Wolf Guard, yeah I could see them being used. But it's just like the Broadside problem. A single S8 AP1 shot, even a melta blast, is not as good as 6 S7 AP4 shots with the option for a S8 AP4 large blast.

Overall I am very happy with these guys, and am definitely gonna be fielding a unit of 3 as often as I can. And the model is gorgeous too, probably my favorite battlesuit model.

I intend to run two of them as well. You've made a solid case for the fusion blaster upgrades for them.