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Dual power scourge hellbrute is like 130pts now! Not bad for 11 s8 attacks!

 Latro_ wrote:
Dual power scourge hellbrute is like 130pts now! Not bad for 11 s8 attacks!

Ultra cheap shooty helbrute for double tap - Reaper AC & ML is 90 points.

happy_inquisitor wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
First impressions: points changes are not nearly enoguh to make a dent in the meta.
1-2 more units won't allow AdMech/GK/Necrons/etc to beat Double Spear Ynnari, the Castellan list, the Loota star or the Tsons+Nurgle+fluff lists.

Oh I think there are changes which will change the meta. I am not so sure that you will like the new meta any better than the old but a change is coming - unless TO's step in with PL limits or somesuch.

The Castellan list is obsolete. The Ta'unar list does exactly the same thing but with macro weapons that delete Imperial Knights. As a T'au player I think a 750 point drop on the Ta'unar is a mistake but unless someone has been playing silly games with the leak images that appears to be what has happened. You want a Castellan equivalent that can off-load wounds to shield drones, re-roll its hits and wounds and ignore any penalties it has for eventually taking wounds? In a faction that can easily build enough CP that it does not need an allied CP farm?

That is just what I can see as a T'au player. Give it a few days for players to go through all the leaks before we start seeing what is now possible and what that means to the top tables. Whether we should be all that bothered about what dominates the podium positions in tournaments is a whole other discussion but I am fairly sure that what will dominate those positions is about to change.

As for the middle tables where most of the players are, they were not in a terrible place before and the general thrust of the points changes should balance out things a bit better. Most armies were already in the 40-60 win percentage range that means average players on the middle tables could and should be getting 2-3 wins on their weekend which is about as balanced as you need. The few armies that were below that saw points tweaks that should IMO be enough to bring them within that reasonably balanced bracket.

Shoots well but cannot fall back and shoot and has only a 5++ save. It's a counter to castellan lists due to the macro weapons, but isn't a threat to other armies, at least not a bigger threath than a Castellan.

Terminators certainly are part of the Marshal’s Household! Not getting the Sword Brethren keyword on Terminators, Vanguard or even Sternguard is atrocious. OTOH, you can now make Helbrecht quite nasty, though. Not Smash Captain nasty, but quite nasty.

On the Power Klaw vs Power Fist points difference, maybe it’s because things with Power Fists generally have two Attacks (or even one!) whereas things with Power Klaws can generally get what, 5? I’ll gladly take a 3pt increase for a 250% increase in output!

Sooooo....I’ve got a dumb question.


Does this CA replace the existing chapter approved with regards to point changes? As in, if there are point changes that were in the old one but aren’t in this one, the points revert back to codex/ index values, or is it assumed we use both books for ALL the point changes?

Do people not remember when ever FW model went up by double during the first CA?

It was a very clear message that FW is no longer GW appreoved for playing. A few models here and there didn’t get hit so hard, but...

Decreasing points on an overpriced model does not mean everything is hunky-dory all of a sudden. And a few models being playable does not equate GW allowing FW, at all.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I think a few FW pages are still missing from the leaks, aren't they?

The final page (knights, tau, nids) was posted last night. All we need now are the new / updated datasheets.

cant locate, can I haz linkage?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I think a few FW pages are still missing from the leaks, aren't they?

The final page (knights, tau, nids) was posted last night. All we need now are the new / updated datasheets.

?
Then were are DKoK, R&H etc?
have i missed something?

https://imgur.com/a/l5CZZbL

 godswildcard wrote:
Sooooo....I’ve got a dumb question.


Does this CA replace the existing chapter approved with regards to point changes? As in, if there are point changes that were in the old one but aren’t in this one, the points revert back to codex/ index values, or is it assumed we use both books for ALL the point changes?

You don't need the 2017 one. It's this and the codex.

 xttz wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I think a few FW pages are still missing from the leaks, aren't they?

The final page (knights, tau, nids) was posted last night. All we need now are the new / updated datasheets.

cant locate, can I haz linkage?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I think a few FW pages are still missing from the leaks, aren't they?

The final page (knights, tau, nids) was posted last night. All we need now are the new / updated datasheets.

?
Then were are DKoK, R&H etc?
have i missed something?

https://imgur.com/a/l5CZZbL

So they even nerfed our cultists?!?
Feth me sideways with a corkscrew!

Also i can't make out what that is on the malefic.

Spoletta wrote:


Shoots well but cannot fall back and shoot and has only a 5++ save. It's a counter to castellan lists due to the macro weapons, but isn't a threat to other armies, at least not a bigger threath than a Castellan.

Let's wait and see shall we, I do not think it is quite so easy to tag that thing in combat without getting screened out or blown to bits in overwatch but perhaps you worked out tricks in the early index 8th days that you think will still play. It can shoot its way out of combat so if you want to shut it down for multiple turns you do need to keep tagging it in combat.

I think no one posted Space Marine changes.
Disclaimer: I compared them with the codex, not with CA2017.

Codex cost-New cost-Difference

SM Units
Agressor squad 25 21 -4
Assault squad with jump packs 16 15 -1
Attack bike squad 35 25 -10
Bike squad 25 21 -4
Captain in Cataphractii armour 126 95 -31
Captain in Gravis armour 102 90 -12
Captain in Terminator armour 105 95 -10
Captain on Bike 98 88 -10
Cataphractii Terminators 30 26 -4
Centurion Devastator squad 80 40 -40
Chaplain in Terminator armour 115 90 -25
Company Veterans 16 14 -2
Contemptor Dread 98 88 -10
Dreadnought 70 60 -10
Drop pod 93 63 -30
Hunter 90 80 -10
Inceptor squad 30 25 -5
Intercessor squad 20 17 -3
Ironclad Dread 80 70 -10
Land Raider 239 200 -39
Land Raider Crusader 244 200 -44
Land Raider Redeemer 244 180 -64
Land Speeders 70 50 -20
Librarian 93 88 -5
Librarian in Terminator armour 143 102 -41
Librarian with Jump pack 116 112 -4
Primaris Captain 87 78 -9
Primaris Chaplain 85 77 -8
Razorback 65 70 5
Redemptor Dread 140 105 -35
Repulsor 210 185 -25
Scout Bike squad 23 21 -2
Servitors 2 5 3
Stalker 80 75 -5
Sternguard 16 14 -2
Stormraven 172 192 20
Tartaros Terminators 31 23 -8
Terminator Assault squad 31 23 -8
Terminator squad 26 23 -3
Vanguard Veterans 16 14 -2
Vanguard Veterans with jump packs 18 17 -1
Venerable Dread 90 80 -10
Vindicator 135 125 -10
Whirlwind 75 70 -5
Cpt. Lysander 150 130 -20
Cpt. Sicarius 132 110 -22
Chaplain Cassius 98 85 -13
Chaplain Grimaldus 120 90 -30
Tigurius 130 115 -15
Helbrecht 170 150 -20
Kor`sarro Khan 107 90 -17
Pedro Kantor 170 150 -20
R. Guilliman 360 400 40
St. Chronus 35 30 -5
St. Tellion 75 65 -10
Vulkan He'stan 154 135 -19
0
SM Wargear 0
Assault bolter 15 10 -5
Assault cannon 21 22 1
Assault plasma incinerator 16 17 1
Astartes grenade launcher 11 6 -5
Auto bolt rifle 1 1 0
Auto boltstorm gauntlets 14 12 -2
Auxiliary grenade launcher 1 0 -1
Bolt pistol 0 0 0
Bolt rifle 0 0 0
Boltstorm gauntlet 25 22 -3
Cerberus launcher 5 0 -5
Chainfist 22 11 -11
Chainsword 0 0 0
Combi-flamer 11 8 -3
Combi-grav 17 13 -4
Combi-melta 19 15 -4
Combi-plasma 15 11 -4
Cyclone missile launcher 50 38 -12
Dreadnought chainfist 46 38 -8
Dreadnought combat weapon (other models) 40 30 -10
Eviscerator 22 11 -11
Flamer 9 6 -3
Flamestorm gauntlets 18 15 -3
Force axe 16 10 -6
Force stave 14 8 -6
Force sword 12 8 -4
Frag grenades 0 0 0
Grav-gun 15 12 -3
Grenade harness 8 0 -8
Heavy flamer 17 14 -3
Heavy onslaught gatling 36 30 -6
Heavy plasma cannon 30 16 -14
Hurricane bolter 4 10 6
Icarus stormcannon 17 10 -7
Krak grenades 0 0 0
Master-crafted power sword 10 6 -4
Meltagun 17 14 -3
Missile launcher 25 20 -5
Multi-melta 27 22 -5
Plasma cannon 21 16 -5
Plasma cutter 7 5 -2
Plasma exterminator 28 17 -11
Plasma gun 13 11 -2
Plasma pistol 7 5 -2
Power fist 12 9 -3
Power sword 4 4 0
Predator autocannon 49 40 -9
Reaper autocannon 18 10 -8
Relic blade 21 9 -12
Seismic hammer 48 40 -8
Servo-arm 12 0 -12
Sniper rifle 4 2 -2
Stalker bolt rifle 0 0 0
Storm shield (character) 15 10 -5
Storm shield (others) 5 2 -3
Twin assault cannon 35 44 9
Twin heavy plasma cannon 34 24 -10
Twin lascannon 50 40 -10
Twin multi-melta 54 40 -14
Typhoon missile launcher 50 38 -12
Volkite charger 6 3 -3
Whirlwind castellan launcher 25 15 -10
Whirlwind vengeance launcher 34 20 -14
Wrist-mounted grenade launcher 4 0 -4

Battle sisters

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/3486

And the 8

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/3487

Meh. Acts of faith seem highly dubious unless you grab the [subfaction] trait and stack simulacrums everywhere.

fe40k wrote:
Do people not remember when ever FW model went up by double during the first CA?

It was a very clear message that FW is no longer GW appreoved for playing. A few models here and there didn’t get hit so hard, but...

Decreasing points on an overpriced model does not mean everything is hunky-dory all of a sudden. And a few models being playable does not equate GW allowing FW, at all.

I actually can't tell if this is a serious post or not...

fe40k wrote:
Do people not remember when ever FW model went up by double during the first CA?

It was a very clear message that FW is no longer GW appreoved for playing. A few models here and there didn’t get hit so hard, but...

Decreasing points on an overpriced model does not mean everything is hunky-dory all of a sudden. And a few models being playable does not equate GW allowing FW, at all.

Jumping to conclusions the most exercise some people get all day...

zamerion wrote:
Battle sisters

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/3486

And the 8

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/3487

So reading that litany of misery

Well Sisters got massive nerf bat in pretty much all respects.

Celestine much weaker
No Canoness with jump pack EVEN though they make the fething model
Acts of Faith much much weaker and harder to do - Imagine if Guard orders still had to make a Ld test AND were limited to a max of 10 per game, never the same one in the same turn, or the same for Power from Pain.
Chapter Tactics even wose than Marines - only apply to Infantry.

Sheesh could they have made a worse dex.

So a Servo Harness is now less than what a Servo Arm costs now.

Yes. I will take my extra power fist, flamer, and plasma pistol for one point less than what servo arms cost now.

I cant find it. Any leak on the new price of a Magaera?

 Crazyterran wrote:
So a Servo Harness is now less than what a Servo Arm costs now.

Yes. I will take my extra power fist, flamer, and plasma pistol for one point less than what servo arms cost now.

Aren't Servo Arms zero now?

Hang on...So no points changes for Castellan knights or have I missed something?

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
Hang on...So no points changes for Castellan knights or have I missed something?

Doesn't seem so or IG infantry squads - apparently they prefered to screw over Chaos, Sisters, Grey Knights and others...

Seems I'm late to the party (only got told about a new CA yesterday), so to save me from having to work my way through 69 pages of 'discussion' about whether people may or may not want to march on Nottingham for GW's sins...

Can someone give me a quick run down on changes for Chaos, Custodes and Harlequins? I've found the points changes but I want to know if they've been given some new formations and/or changes in rules.


Also, any overall changes they're bringing in I.e. more beta rules?

 mrhappyface wrote:
Seems I'm late to the party (only got told about a new CA yesterday), so to save me from having to work my way through 69 pages of 'discussion' about whether people may or may not want to march on Nottingham for GW's sins...

Can someone give me a quick run down on changes for Chaos, Custodes and Harlequins? I've found the points changes but I want to know if they've been given some new formations and/or changes in rules.


Also, any overall changes they're bringing in I.e. more beta rules?

No additional rules as far as we know.

Voss wrote:
Meh. Acts of faith seem highly dubious unless you grab the [subfaction] trait and stack simulacrums everywhere.

Real issue is the Acts of Faith aren't good enough to even want to stack simulacrums or take Orders that boost chances of getting them off.

For anyone familiar with Index Sisters, very quick summary:
Most things are the same except the following bullet points.

Faith powers are generally worse, and you'll get them off less often.

Little to no substantial point changes.

Penitent Engines do better damage, but still too expensive and no way to get them into combat

A couple good strats, and one really good one (Blessed ammo). Unfortunately some of the strats are used for Faith based stuff, and faith is pretty rubbish, so some strats you'll likely never use.

Celestine is worse, Gemini now a unit of characters but not absolutely anchored to Celestine (they are a separate unit).

Repressor isn't in the Dex, will still have to use the Index.

Warlord Traits are not great.

1-2 decent relics, nothing that really stands out.

Overall Beta Codex grade: Bleh.

Worse than the Index, needs soup to handle Knights and other competitive armies. Literally, take the index and nerf all the tactics that Faith powers used to allow, add a good strat, and then you have the Beta Codex. At least it's only a Beta.

So that rapid fire stratagem is pretty cool, bolt storm is pretty meh just like the stalker bolt rifle one

PiñaColada wrote:
I'm a bit miffed that a powerfist is 9 points when an identical ork powerklaw is 13. And before people jump in and say that you pay more because a nob is S5, then why is an ork rokkit launcha 1 point mor than a plasma gun now, with the vastly inferior BS? You shouldn't have it both ways. Maybe orks will get updated in the next FAQ but I was under the assumption the basically wrote CA and the ork 'dex at the same time, so they should've seen this coming. See also: Ork warbikers/SM bikes, Flamers/ork burnas, Heavy stubbers/big shootas etc..

You won't be satisfied with my answer, but I'll explain to you why that is.

Points are not decided by a 1:1 ratio - "Oh it does the same thing so it's the same amount of points."

The model is taken into consideration. What the model can do. What the model is augmented by (stratagems, auras, army traits, etc). All of those factor in to that point cost and more.

But let's do a comparison just to have one.

When you say "Nob", I assume you mean a Boss Nob in a Boyz unit. By powerfist, I assume you mean a Sergeant in a TAC squad.

When you compare the two, the Boss Nob has:

1W more than the Sergeant.

Hits on S10 rather than S8. A small, but important difference when attacking things that are T8.

Gets three attacks as opposed to the Sergeant's 2.

The Sergeant gets a better armor save (3+) and better shooting. However, I will say this. Orkz don't rely on armor saves. They rely on bodies, so comparing the armor save is almost moot here. And of course shooting isn't a big deal for them either.

I hope this helps.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

Voss wrote:
Meh. Acts of faith seem highly dubious unless you grab the [subfaction] trait and stack simulacrums everywhere.

Real issue is the Acts of Faith aren't good enough to even want to stack simulacrums or take Orders that boost chances of getting them off.

For anyone familiar with Index Sisters, very quick summary:
Most things are the same except the following bullet points.

Faith powers are generally worse, and you'll get them off less often.

Little to no substantial point changes.

Penitent Engines do better damage, but still too expensive and no way to get them into combat

A couple good strats, and one really good one (Blessed ammo). Unfortunately some of the strats are used for Faith based stuff, and faith is pretty rubbish, so some strats you'll likely never use.

Celestine is worse, Gemini now a unit of characters but not absolutely anchored to Celestine (they are a separate unit).

Repressor isn't in the Dex, will still have to use the Index.

Warlord Traits are not great.

1-2 decent relics, nothing that really stands out.

Overall Beta Codex grade: Bleh.

Worse than the Index, needs soup to handle Knights and other competitive armies. Literally, take the index and nerf all the tactics that Faith powers used to allow, add a good strat, and then you have the Beta Codex. At least it's only a Beta.

I feel it should be obvious, but from a designer's point of view, it is always easier to buff rather than to nerf things.

From a player's point of view, it feels bad to get nerfed, rather than to get buffed (obviously).

So it shouldn't come as a surprise to see that the SoB codex is rather, meh. That's why it is in beta and they're asking for feedback, like what you have here.

It is pretty sad that Heroes of Rynn's World (one of the Crimson Fists Stratagems) is infinitely better than Bolter Drill. 1. It can be used on Hellblasters and Intercessors. 2. It generates extra hits, not extra shots. So you could use it on a big squad of Hellblasters with Pedro Kantor, overcharge your plasma incinerators, and cause a ton of wounds. Pedro helps prevent losing models and turning some misses into 6s. Put an LT by for added destruction. For added fun, use this Stratagem in conjunction with Paragons of Dorn if someone shot at you.

Now if only I could put Indomitus Crusaders on the same Detachment. The Rapid Fire Stratagem combined with this would make Intercessors very shooty. 4 Shots at 15", 6s generating additional hits? Not too shabby for 2CP.

Sonic Dreads with Dual Blastmasters, Doom Siren, and Fist are now 138pts! or 128pts for Dual Blastmaster, Doom Siren, and Missile Launcher!

 Riddick40k wrote:
Sonic Dreads with Dual Blastmasters, Doom Siren, and Fist are now 138pts! or 128pts for Dual Blastmaster, Doom Siren, and Missile Launcher!

It is a good time to be a slaanesh player we got buffs across the board, only things that where untouched where noise marines (who where already quite decent)

Apparently... Drukhari codex was too late to be adjusted in CA.. Reece said that.
The codex was 8 months ago. So CA is basically fixing last year's meta.

So I assume DE and IK stuff will go up in points eventually. Which is why testers know of those changes but they weren't in CA.