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It's very similar to FNP alright, but it looks like we have more opportunities to improve the roll, native reroll 1s on warriors, and potentially a chance to roll a second time with orbs/rites/arks/monoliths, depending on how it plays out.

I'm still optimistic about it all! I like the idea of protocols and how they seem to interact with characters. It almost feels a bit like Synapse.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/14 14:52:31


   
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torblind wrote:
It's a bit disappointing if they revert back to something close to 7th edition RP, when there are many ways the 8th edition RP could be fixed


Like? If you can roll to squad that died you end up with undying units. Stratagem to do that is also unscalable resulting in current issue. If you can't it's essentially tax you pay without gaining anything.


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If an ability like Rites of Reanimation can provide an aura giving full-squad reanimation rolls or a boost to RP rolls, it'll make troop units supported by characters commonplace, and hard to shift, which is nice because it seems consistent with current Necron fluff? Where Warriors are near-mindless drones driven by their leaders into constant war?

EDIT: And if the protocols turn off after the last Noble/character dies, it's reinforcing a style of Necron play where you have a core 'court' of characters who are surrounded by constructs and lesser, unthinking Necron troops. Which feels kinda fluffy right?

EDIT EDIT: And actually, if we're seeing a meta shift to higher damage weapons over number of shots to deal with Marines or FNP saves, a flat 5+ or 6+ or whatever to bring a model back regardless of damage goes up in currency.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/14 15:13:51


 
   
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tneva82 wrote:
torblind wrote:
It's a bit disappointing if they revert back to something close to 7th edition RP, when there are many ways the 8th edition RP could be fixed


Like? If you can roll to squad that died you end up with undying units. Stratagem to do that is also unscalable resulting in current issue. If you can't it's essentially tax you pay without gaining anything.



It's been discussed at length, in depth, repeatedly for two years, I'm not reiterating. Though I will say I disagree with you, as do others, as should be evident. Make a thread about it if you feel all hasn't been said.

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Do you think we'll get the other two Cryptek types? Or do we have them already?

   
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I think that this really points back to the Rites of Reanimation being a heal similar to death in AoS. Heal X number of wounds or something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Do you think we'll get the other two Cryptek types? Or do we have them already?


The ones revealed had references in the Crusade rules from the initial codex pages, There didn't seem to be anything about the other abilities so I am thinking this is all we get for now Cryptek wise.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/14 15:27:59


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Assuming this works not dissimilar to to the Gaia forge world trait...

Even at a 6+ RP, it's better than a 5+++ on single wound models at anything more than 1 damage (and is essentially incomparably better to any FNP save to 4+ damage weapons).

This is obviously only for single wound models and it gets more complicated on multiwound models: it's mathmatically better than a FNP the more 'overkilled' a unit is, and worse the better matched the unit is to the model's W characteristic. Sort of.

If models are returned on 1W of course, it makes sense that things like Skorpekhs having living metal...

Further prediction: MWs will ignore RP, hence the Szarekhan dynastic code being ignore MWs on a 5+.
   
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 unitled wrote:
Assuming this works not dissimilar to to the Gaia forge world trait...

Even at a 6+ RP, it's better than a 5+++ on single wound models at anything more than 1 damage (and is essentially incomparably better to any FNP save to 4+ damage weapons).

This is obviously only for single wound models and it gets more complicated on multiwound models: it's mathmatically better than a FNP the more 'overkilled' a unit is, and worse the better matched the unit is to the model's W characteristic. Sort of.

If models are returned on 1W of course, it makes sense that things like Skorpekhs having living metal...

Further prediction: MWs will ignore RP, hence the Szarekhan dynastic code being ignore MWs on a 5+.
This is an interesting take.

You may very much be right. However, I would think that Szarekhan 5+++ vs Mortals would be because the standard RP is possibly going to be 6+ now. Makes sense, right, given how many things effect RP that we know of?

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I don't see why MW would ignore RP. The RP roll would come after the model dies from the MW.

You'd get a 5++ save, then a RP save with Szarekean, and this would affect thing slike Vehicles that dont' get RP.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/14 16:03:34


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 Sasori wrote:
I don't see why MW would ignore RP.


Because if RP is worded to trigger after a unit has resolved its attacks (as implied by the statement), by definition MWs from Psychic powers will never trigger said RP.
   
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Sterling191 wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
I don't see why MW would ignore RP.


Because if RP is worded to trigger after a unit has resolved its attacks (as implied by the statement), by definition MWs from Psychic powers will never trigger said RP.


That's a good point, and probably a reason we need to see the full rules text instead of a narrative snippet. We don't know how the interaction with Psyhic powers would work.


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Anyone else notice the Orphydian Destroyers have Living Metal?
Wonder if our other destroyers etc are also going to be picking that ability up.

My understanding regarding that RP tease might be that we roll RP at the end of the phase, once attacks are resolved against that unit?

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 iGuy91 wrote:
Anyone else notice the Orphydian Destroyers have Living Metal?
Wonder if our other destroyers etc are also going to be picking that ability up.

My understanding regarding that RP tease might be that we roll RP at the end of the phase, once attacks are resolved against that unit?


I don't think it's at the end of the phase, it looks to be after each set of attacks are resolved. So, Primaris unit 1 attacks with with everything against warriros. Warriors make saves, then RP. Primairs unit 2 attacks, etc etc.

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Exploding Scarabs confirmed in the Codex Necrons thread in News & Rumors.

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 Ghaz wrote:
Exploding Scarabs confirmed in the Codex Necrons thread in News & Rumors.


In the bottom left you can read that it's still a strat sadly.
   
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It says the scarabs didn't reanimate, does that mean they're getting RP?!
   
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 unitled wrote:
It says the scarabs didn't reanimate, does that mean they're getting RP?!


Sounds like. With RP on scarabs and LM on Snake Destroyers, it seems like they're expanding to non-traditional units.

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Dudeface wrote:
Claas wrote:
So this is sounding good, rolling after killed is a good thing.


A unit of 20 warriors just became insanely durable.


I was told only marines get buffs. I am disappointed in GW.

   
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 unitled wrote:
It says the scarabs didn't reanimate, does that mean they're getting RP?!


Could just be a strat - there's one currently that allows Canoptek contructs to reanimate.
   
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torblind wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
torblind wrote:
It's a bit disappointing if they revert back to something close to 7th edition RP, when there are many ways the 8th edition RP could be fixed


Like? If you can roll to squad that died you end up with undying units. Stratagem to do that is also unscalable resulting in current issue. If you can't it's essentially tax you pay without gaining anything.



It's been discussed at length, in depth, repeatedly for two years, I'm not reiterating. Though I will say I disagree with you, as do others, as should be evident. Make a thread about it if you feel all hasn't been said.


And nobody has given any solution except can do even for dead unit which is worse than currrent for game or same except as stratagem which has same issue as now: 100% non scalable and as such unworkable.

8e rp is unscalable at it's core. as long as you don't completely redo it stavs as such and it's limited to be either crap or silly good(rp roll even for dead unit would break the army making necrons drag to face. Even if not broken would be annoying to face as you could not ever win killing game)

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make a thread?

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 Daedalus81 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Claas wrote:
So this is sounding good, rolling after killed is a good thing.


A unit of 20 warriors just became insanely durable.


I was told only marines get buffs. I am disappointed in GW.


Likewise, I expect there to be some form of gotcha rule where the protocols kick in if you declare yourself a filthy npc.
   
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New Reanimation Protocols could also make Necrons better in combat. If a Necron gets taken out by an enemy in combat, it sounds like they will have a chance stand back up in time to swing when the unit is activated. All this provided that there isn't some stipulation preventing the model from standing back up in combat.

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Dudeface wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Claas wrote:
So this is sounding good, rolling after killed is a good thing.


A unit of 20 warriors just became insanely durable.


I was told only marines get buffs. I am disappointed in GW.


Likewise, I expect there to be some form of gotcha rule where the protocols kick in if you declare yourself a filthy npc.


To be fair, there are a lot of hoops to jump through for our command protocols, to the point I am pretty flabbergasted.

Compared to say doctrines which just work armywide, though there is some hope that gets changed and they have a similar number of hoops to jump through.

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Necrons being able to choose the order of their "doctrines" is better than what the space marines get. I imagine some marine armies would like the option to have the assault doctrine on turn two for example.

The doctrines themselves seem good so far. Not knowing when or if the "fall back and shoot" ability is going to happen means an opponent can never rely on locking things down in cc, and the Necron player can ram QS vehicles into things to stop them shooting the turn before they know they'll be able to fall back and shoot.
The rumoured light cover ability is something that I often paid 2cp for in 8th so that's a great one for turn 1.

Needing to be near characters, and have a noble alive are some steep drawbacks though.

The "Dynastic agents" keyword in the protocol rules presumably applies to the triarch stuff, and possibly the silent king too. Meaning you could take him for dynasties other than his own.


On an unrelated note: the protocol of the conquering tyrant mentions 3 abilities that get 3 inches added to their range:
My will be done, the Lords will, and rites of reanimation. I'm guessing that's the Overlord, Lord, and Cryptek abilities respectively. Meaning that the reroll 1s and 4+ reanimation auras are now targeted abilities. So a Cryptek can't buff a whole silver tide. Makes the Canoptek Reanimator slightly more useful as it gets the same ability but without taking up a hq slot.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/14 23:57:14


 
   
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VeiledMalice wrote:
 unitled wrote:
It says the scarabs didn't reanimate, does that mean they're getting RP?!


Could just be a strat - there's one currently that allows Canoptek contructs to reanimate.


There's also a Canoptek specific Crusade advancement that adds +1 to RP on that Canoptek unit. The Canoptek bodyguards for Crypteks have RP. All indications point to Canoptek units most likely getting RP.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/09/14 23:56:35


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Dudeface wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Claas wrote:
So this is sounding good, rolling after killed is a good thing.


A unit of 20 warriors just became insanely durable.


I was told only marines get buffs. I am disappointed in GW.


Likewise, I expect there to be some form of gotcha rule where the protocols kick in if you declare yourself a filthy npc.


Dont you go on every thread and harp on about people whinging about space marines in every thread without knowing rules.. and yet here you are.. being snarky and..whinging.. as soon as theres a chance marines dont get the same thing a Necron gets.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/15 01:29:09


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 Sasori wrote:

I don't think it's at the end of the phase, it looks to be after each set of attacks are resolved. So, Primaris unit 1 attacks with with everything against warriros. Warriors make saves, then RP. Primairs unit 2 attacks, etc etc.


I dont think it works that way. That would be a lot of dice to roll, like ~100 when a fully buffed unit of ork boys attacks in melee
   
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Whatever it takes to boost RP up to viable levels

I feel like if its making the ENTIRE SQUAD'S RP roll after receiving damage that would be nuts, most likely it will be RP as a FNP when taking wounds, then entire squad RP roll during command phase.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/15 09:14:15


 
   
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Emissary wrote:


Here's an image someone else uploaded.


Wow, that's incredibly powerful, unless there's a caveat we're missing.
Its so going to get nerfed on day one


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 p5freak wrote:
 Sasori wrote:

I don't think it's at the end of the phase, it looks to be after each set of attacks are resolved. So, Primaris unit 1 attacks with with everything against warriros. Warriors make saves, then RP. Primairs unit 2 attacks, etc etc.


I dont think it works that way. That would be a lot of dice to roll, like ~100 when a fully buffed unit of ork boys attacks in melee


It would seem it does work that way though.
The question is what happened to models that fail their roll? Do they wait for the next RP proc, or are they removed? If the latter then we're basically back to 7th ed RP, which is lame.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/15 15:46:58


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