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Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain






They have the option to specilize in many basic attacks for cheap, anti tank/mc with power fists and evicerators, go ham on elite with power weapons and relic blade (?), or mix and match as a jack.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in pl
Horrific Howling Banshee




I'm playing RG with Lias Issodon and a bunch of Sternguards. After a couple of games at my local club I came to the conclusion, that I need more anti horde firepower. At first I thought, that some storm bolter Sterns would be great.

Today while walking back from a grocery store, I was crunching some numbers in my head. Appears that Sterns aren't that great as I thought they were.

A 18pts Stern armed with a SB, pays 4,5 points per 1 S4 shot.

On the other hand, a 3 man Scout Bike Squad (with SB on serg) costs 77pts and outputs 22 S4 shots at the same 12" range. That equals 3,5 points per 1 S4 shot. And they're probably also tougher point for point.

Apart from not-having-moved Aggressors, is there anything that could beat those bikers?

"I'm rather intrigued to discover that my opponent, who looks like a perfectly civilised person, is in fact mathematically capable" 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





macexor wrote:

Apart from not-having-moved Aggressors, is there anything that could beat those bikers?


I don't know but I've had great success with Scout Bikers in 8th so far.
   
Made in us
Slippery Ultramarine Scout Biker




CT

With 8th edition one of the best weapon profiles we have are lascannons. Where do you find the best place to inject lascannons into your armies? Predators? Devastator Squads? V. Dreds?

I’ve been using mainly devastator Squads as that’s currenly what I have available to me. Follow up question if you use devs how many extra bolter bodies are there? Is it just the sgt and 4 heavy weapons? Or are people running 2-7 extra bolters to eat that damage?

A friend of mine suggested I run 1 heavy weapon is in a squad of 5 guys to protect my lascannons has anyone tried this with success?

One day I'll put something funny here. 
   
Made in us
Adolescent Youth with Potential



Minneapolis Minnesota

macexor wrote:


Apart from not-having-moved Aggressors, is there anything that could beat those bikers?


Same here, and the speed is a huge boon in their favor. I still think boltstorm aggressors come out on top overall because of range, durability, and special rules. Other than that for anti infantry you can go co-vets with storm bolter and chainsword for 7 s4 attacks per 18 pts but if were factoring in cc the scouts still have combat knives, too.

New 3/4 price assault bolter inceptors? AP -1 and s5 will start shifting the numbers even against the chaffiest chaff. Not too hard to spam t4.

Otherwise, from the index, you can still run a triple heavy Flamer plain dread.
   
Made in us
Sneaky Lictor






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Traceoftoxin wrote:
I find 3x2 company vets with chainsword and storm bolter to be fantastic. Have used them to take down all sorts of stuff. You can scoff at "S4 ap nothing", but one of the best ways to make someone die is to make them roll dice. Ask any ork player.

Problem is for tournaments will kill X unit objectives, you give up lots of points. So, I don't reccomend investing in more than maybe one razorback of them as a counter assault unit. Where having the almost guaranteed 5-7" charge as a BT is very useful. There's nothing more crippling than failing a short range charge at a crucial point in the game, with how much a charge can dictate following movement, shooting and assault phases.

That's why Vanguard simply work. 18 points for a 12" 4 attack model ain't too bad. Yeah it's only 2 attacks if you got a Power Weapon but oh well. Hidden Power Fist is always an option, though less effective than it used to be.


If every vanguard could take a storm bolter, I'd be balls deep in a white scars army of those.
   
Made in pl
Horrific Howling Banshee




 Sonminiser wrote:
With 8th edition one of the best weapon profiles we have are lascannons. Where do you find the best place to inject lascannons into your armies? Predators? Devastator Squads? V. Dreds?

I’ve been using mainly devastator Squads as that’s currenly what I have available to me. Follow up question if you use devs how many extra bolter bodies are there? Is it just the sgt and 4 heavy weapons? Or are people running 2-7 extra bolters to eat that damage?

A friend of mine suggested I run 1 heavy weapon is in a squad of 5 guys to protect my lascannons has anyone tried this with success?


So far I was mainly using Vanguard Dreads with twin Autocannon and twin Lascannon. Either 2 or 3 of them. They were doing great most of the time. Last game I've tried Mortis Dreads with two twin Lascannons. They did very well. Two such dreads killed one Onager Dunecrawler, 1,5 Kastelan Robot, damaged heavily the second Dunecrawler and did some wounds to the Imperial Knight. I think that part of their success lies in having a very aggressive playstyle. No one's got time to shoot my dreads when there are 10 combi-plasma Sternguards at your face, coupled with another 10 special issue bolters, sometimes Celestine etc.

So far I've been using Raven Guard CT on them. Next time I'll be playing a 2k game, I'm going to deploy another detachment consisting of some cheap hq and 3 Mortis Dreads with quad Lascannons all under Salamanders CT. I think this might work. I just have to watch out for some shooty armies when I don't have the first turn. After my reserves drop, no one really cares about them. So why not just maximise their firepower?

"I'm rather intrigued to discover that my opponent, who looks like a perfectly civilised person, is in fact mathematically capable" 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Texas

 Sonminiser wrote:
With 8th edition one of the best weapon profiles we have are lascannons. Where do you find the best place to inject lascannons into your armies? Predators? Devastator Squads? V. Dreds?

I’ve been using mainly devastator Squads as that’s currenly what I have available to me. Follow up question if you use devs how many extra bolter bodies are there? Is it just the sgt and 4 heavy weapons? Or are people running 2-7 extra bolters to eat that damage?

A friend of mine suggested I run 1 heavy weapon is in a squad of 5 guys to protect my lascannons has anyone tried this with success?


What i have seen is mostly 5-6 man squads with 2-3 lascannons. Basically want like a 50/50 ratio on the Devestator squads.
People put them with tac marines as well, but you have to worry more about move and shoot with those guys.

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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




 Dynas wrote:
 Sonminiser wrote:
With 8th edition one of the best weapon profiles we have are lascannons. Where do you find the best place to inject lascannons into your armies? Predators? Devastator Squads? V. Dreds?

I’ve been using mainly devastator Squads as that’s currenly what I have available to me. Follow up question if you use devs how many extra bolter bodies are there? Is it just the sgt and 4 heavy weapons? Or are people running 2-7 extra bolters to eat that damage?

A friend of mine suggested I run 1 heavy weapon is in a squad of 5 guys to protect my lascannons has anyone tried this with success?


What i have seen is mostly 5-6 man squads with 2-3 lascannons. Basically want like a 50/50 ratio on the Devestator squads.
People put them with tac marines as well, but you have to worry more about move and shoot with those guys.

There are actually loads of good ways to run lascannons.

The guy who won heat 1 of the UKGT ran several tactical squads with a lascannon in each one. That’s a pretty great way to get guns spread around the place where it requires quite a lot of effort to remove each one. It’s expensive per lascannon but the units themselves are cheap, and you need to take some kind of troops.

Mortis dreadnoughts are nearly the most points-efficient way to bring lascannons. 4 for 175 points is very efficient and it gets CTs, which is pretty great for ravenguard in particular. If you’re happy to go up by 31 points then contemptor mortis dreads are a lot tougher, and start out with BS2+.

Predators fall in between the two dreadnoughts in cost. The best thing about predators is the kill shot stratagem. Now that the autocannon has come down in price, a group of three predators with autocannon and lascannon is a pretty great option. They combo very well with the storm of fire warlord trait, as +1 to wound means they get the extra ap on a 5+.

A Xiphon interceptor is basically a flying predator. It’s had its cost raised a bit (which is hard to argue against, because it used to be cheaper than a non-flying predator!) but is still reasonably affordable. It features Potms and gets +1 to hit things that fly, meaning it’s a very effective flyer-killer. Can’t hover though, so you do have to be careful not to fly it off the board.

Repulsors are an interesting case. You can effectively give them 4 lascannons, along with around 53 other guns. They are very expensive but as transports for your hellblasters and characters they can do a pretty good job for your army.

Razorbacks exist and can have lascannons stuck on them. They are on the high end of the scale for durability but not for firepower/point. Pricier now as well, making it quite hard to make the case for them over predators.

In an infantry-heavy army you could go for devastators. Bear in mind though that they’ll be hated by just about everything and may not live all that long as a result. That kind of applies to everything here though. They are actually the cheapest way to bring lascannons, at 165 for 4, and they can be pretty resilient against other people’s long-ranged stuff. They can also die in a heap to small arms fire though.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Texas

Are landspeeders or landspeeder storms any good. from a points/stats line wise they are on par with bikes, and appear to move faster, and also the storm can carry scouts. I have heard some grumblings that they are gak now, and everyone takes bikes. What am I missing?

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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Dynas wrote:
Are landspeeders or landspeeder storms any good. from a points/stats line wise they are on par with bikes, and appear to move faster, and also the storm can carry scouts. I have heard some grumblings that they are gak now, and everyone takes bikes. What am I missing?


They are really pricey for what they do (which is not very much).

 
   
Made in us
Plastictrees






Salem, MA

 Dynas wrote:
Are landspeeders or landspeeder storms any good. from a points/stats line wise they are on par with bikes, and appear to move faster, and also the storm can carry scouts. I have heard some grumblings that they are gak now, and everyone takes bikes. What am I missing?


(1) The base cost is too high. 20 points more gets you a predator chassis with twice the wounds, more toughness, and able to carry more guns.
(2) The weapon options are overshadowed by what you can get for a stormtalon, razorback or predator. For example, missile launchers are kind of weak in 8th edition, so buying a speeder with typhoon gets you a fragile model with not much firepower for more than the cost of a razor with twin las.
(3) All the weapons are heavies for a model that probably wants to be moving every turn.

The one thing that I've thought about actually using a speeder for is just minimal with a single HB or HF as an assault blocker, since it can soak a charge, not get trapped, and still shoot after falling back. But so far I've always found something better to spend those 80-90 points on.

"The complete or partial destruction of the enemy must be regarded as the sole object of all engagements.... Direct annihilation of the enemy's forces must always be the dominant consideration." Karl von Clausewitz 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




The problem with land speeders is having no suitable (non-heavy) guns and no CTs.

If you compare them to an Eldar vyper they are really similar. But voters have several weapon options that are assault, and they get their craftworld benefits (as does everything in their book).

I get the feeling with a few marine units that they weren’t really thought through in detail. All the attention went on the primaris. A few units, like stormravens, were too good and got beefed. Others, like land speeders aren’t good enough but are ignored.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




Regular Land Speeders are mediocre, but Storms are largely garbage now.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in au
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin





Perth

Hey guys, building a 12 aggressor ravenguard list atm, but I dont have them yet. Just wondered how well the ultramarines go as I have the models ready for a 1500pt hellblaster guilliman gunline. Then I was thinking, 12 aggressors, 10 hellblasters with the assault plasma, guilliman, a standard/apoc, 3 primaris psykers and tiggy would be a fun list, and quite mobile for a foot slogging army as its always advancing and rerolling everything....

Whats the general consensus of massed aggressors with guilliman lately? does it perform well or is it too fragile?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/07 12:21:39


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10,000

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Texas

THe landspeeder storm with scouts can still move and shoot, and for ultramarine they would still be able to shoot if they fell back, but the vehicle wouldn't. Also, they are troops so you would get objective secured and with the speed they can certainly zip around the board.

What makes the bikes better?

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Made in us
Plastictrees






Salem, MA

It's just the cost, IMHO.

5 scouts in a storm is about 135?

For 125 you can get five scout bikes. Same toughness, same armor save, 2" slower (except when advancing), ten wounds to the storm's 7, and *three times* as much shooting at 12". Twice as much shooting at 24"

If a storm were 20 points cheaper, I would say the Fly keyword would be enough to make it comparable.

"The complete or partial destruction of the enemy must be regarded as the sole object of all engagements.... Direct annihilation of the enemy's forces must always be the dominant consideration." Karl von Clausewitz 
   
Made in au
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin





Perth

I ran my 1500 aggressor/hellblaster guilliman gunline last night, tabled an angry space wolves list. Tiggy's null zone, primaris smite and the banner all ensured those aggressors are nasty. So much fun to play too, has answers for a lot of different armies.

Instagram: xenos_scum

10,000

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




I know at the moment I'm looking to get more anti-tank in my current list. The rough draft of my next tourney list is shaping to be around something like this, and I definitely need tips.

Battalion:
x1 Lugft Huron
x1 Lieutenant
. Power Fist, Master Crafted Bolter (The Primarch's Wrath)

x5 Intercessors
. 1 Aux Grenade Launcher
x5 Intercessors
. 1 Aux Grenade Launcher
x5 Scouts
. Shotguns, Combi-Plasma
x5 Scouts
. Shotguns, Combi-Plasma

3 x1 Tarantula Turret
. Heavy Bolters

x1 Relic Whirlwind Scorpius

Vanguard Detachment:
x1 Lias Issodon

x8 Sternguard
. 2 Grav Cannons
x8 Sternguard
. 2 Grav Cannons
x8 Sternguard
. 2 Grav Cannons

As of right now the list is at 1721 points...and I think lacking in the Anti-Big Stuff at the moment. So the question is how to incorporate that stuff...into the Elite slot. The Scorpius is pretty cool overall as long as I can keep Lugft and the Lieutenant nearby, but obviously I would need at least one selection in the Elite slot to meet the Relic requirement. More importantly, what would it be? If the choices really aren't...good, I can always forget the rerolls galore and throw it in the Raptors detachment and get my fix elsewhere, though that's not my preferred want.

The next question is what to run my Astral Claws as. I was actually, and hear me out on this, thinking of Black Templars just for the sick Strategem to shut off Psykers. Raven Guard would add to survivability more, but the Warlord Trait would suck for Huron. Salamanders would work if I chose Dreadnoughts as my Elite anti-big stuff.

Of course the list is still a work-in-progress. I'm entirely open to non-terrible suggestions.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Elites? Venerable Dreadnaughts. And if you went RG, they become extra survivable.

Also, you don't have to use that RG warlord trait unless the warlord is a named RG character. Like if he were Shrike, for example. Astral Claws have no associated warlord trait, so I'm pretty sure you can choose between the RG one (if that's your chosen 'successor' for this) or the generic ones. Someone correct me if there was an faq on this.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




Lemondish wrote:
Elites? Venerable Dreadnaughts. And if you went RG, they become extra survivable.

Also, you don't have to use that RG warlord trait unless the warlord is a named RG character. Like if he were Shrike, for example. Astral Claws have no associated warlord trait, so I'm pretty sure you can choose between the RG one (if that's your chosen 'successor' for this) or the generic ones. Someone correct me if there was an faq on this.

Huron gets you an additional CP if he is your Warlord. So that was the main plan.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in pl
Horrific Howling Banshee




Have you run Sterns in this configuration before? How do they do? What do they usually go after? I guess you've got SIB on them.

"I'm rather intrigued to discover that my opponent, who looks like a perfectly civilised person, is in fact mathematically capable" 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
Elites? Venerable Dreadnaughts. And if you went RG, they become extra survivable.

Also, you don't have to use that RG warlord trait unless the warlord is a named RG character. Like if he were Shrike, for example. Astral Claws have no associated warlord trait, so I'm pretty sure you can choose between the RG one (if that's your chosen 'successor' for this) or the generic ones. Someone correct me if there was an faq on this.

Huron gets you an additional CP if he is your Warlord. So that was the main plan.


Sure, but I think you have to give him a generic trait instead of the chapter specific one. He's not RG, even if you choose to act as RG for the purposes of the Chapter Tactics and Stratagems. The Warlord Traits have different wording than those two, so I'm pretty sure you're not only able to choose a generic trait from the list, you're forced to. For named characters you have to use the warlord trait associated with their chapter, but Astral Claws have none.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




Lemondish wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
Elites? Venerable Dreadnaughts. And if you went RG, they become extra survivable.

Also, you don't have to use that RG warlord trait unless the warlord is a named RG character. Like if he were Shrike, for example. Astral Claws have no associated warlord trait, so I'm pretty sure you can choose between the RG one (if that's your chosen 'successor' for this) or the generic ones. Someone correct me if there was an faq on this.

Huron gets you an additional CP if he is your Warlord. So that was the main plan.


Sure, but I think you have to give him a generic trait instead of the chapter specific one. He's not RG, even if you choose to act as RG for the purposes of the Chapter Tactics and Stratagems. The Warlord Traits have different wording than those two, so I'm pretty sure you're not only able to choose a generic trait from the list, you're forced to. For named characters you have to use the warlord trait associated with their chapter, but Astral Claws have none.

I guess that's a good point with the Crimson Fists getting their own stuff. I'd probably just go Iron Resolve (really deny killing him) or Storm Of Fire (making that camping stuff just slightly better at killing while providing synergy with the Lt.)

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Texas

Speaking of Crimson Fist, i have a Kantor model (without the flag on him) and was gonna repaint him as an LT for Ultramarines. For points wise, given he has Dorns Arrow I was just going to use that as a Storm Bolter and Powerfist.

Im going to bit bash another LT and Captain, not sure what to give him. Whats best these days? Might go magnets on the arms. I have pretty much all the melee and ranged weapons.
Captain i was thinking power weapon and combi weapon, not sure which though. For LT, chainsword and stormbolter, but open for suggestions.

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Made in us
Plastictrees






Salem, MA

My favorite captain has a jump pack, thunder hammer, and storm shield. He can get quickly to wherever I need him and challenge just about anything in HtH.

4 thunderhammer attacks hitting on 3s with rerolled 1s typically deals either six or nine wounds to most things, and it’s unusual not to get at least 3 wounds.

The stormshield is not absolutely essential. It only changes his invul from 4+ to 3+ and it’s somewhat expensive for that, but if you roll saves the way I do, then it makes a difference. If I weren’t using a stormshield, I would use a combi-melta, since flying makes it easier for him to get into half range.

But Crimson Fists have the best artifact fist in the game—the one with no penalty to hit. Definitely use that on a captain.

"The complete or partial destruction of the enemy must be regarded as the sole object of all engagements.... Direct annihilation of the enemy's forces must always be the dominant consideration." Karl von Clausewitz 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User





Whay you guys think of dreads in this edition and how many do you use in your lists. Contemptor dreads are my favourite right now with basic loadout (kheres assault-ccw with combi bolter) and planning to use two of them in my list if i can fit them.


++THERE IS ONLY THE EMPEROR, HE IS OUR SHIELD AND PROTECTOR++ 
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut





Netherlands

 yasarkasaba wrote:
Whay you guys think of dreads in this edition and how many do you use in your lists. Contemptor dreads are my favourite right now with basic loadout (kheres assault-ccw with combi bolter) and planning to use two of them in my list if i can fit them.



Venerable dreadnought with 2x twin autocannon is lovely for its points cost. Keep it still and near a Captain for best effect.

   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




I love dreads. I rate the Contemptor Mortis, the Chaplain and the Leviathan the highest. Quad Las Mortis beats Preds imo - chapter tactics, 5++ and hitting on 2s for +20pts is a bargain.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Has anybody had the opportunity to play with Gabriel Angelos? I picked up the Artel W model and was eager to see how he performs on the table.
   
 
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