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Reasons why Eldatatard isn't good in 4th edition:

1) All the newbs you pwned with it have figured it out. The advantage of surprise is over.

2) At 'wussy' points levels of 1500 points, optimized lists have a 365 point advantage on you. It's crippling. (Almost 25%)

3) At more normal points levels of 1750, 1850, and 2000 points....optimized lists still have a 21%, 20%, and 18.5% advantage. Rounded my math, be kind and spare me the equation to Pi, please.

4) Avatar is just a cheerleader with T6, 4 wounds, and a 4+ invul save. 155 points gives you a big target, and a fearless-causing blanket. So what? Either your troops are cheap (Guardians), already fearless (Wraithguard, Wraithlords, Phoenix Lord-led squads), or more expensive than basic space marines (everything else). Best part is, his ability doesn't work on vehicles--the current strength of the Eldar Codex.

5) Eldrad, or the 210 point wonder bread. Casts 2 fortunes/guides, and 1 fortune/guide. Big deal. Go ahead and fortune your expensive but fragile units (almost everything). Guide your vehicles. Better to do it now before they're stunned (Falcons) or destroyed (everything else). Do you really need someone to tell you that Warwalkers (the favorite guide target) are horrible if the other guy has the ability to beat AV10? Wait, not even auto-glancing like Land Speeders--the glass hammers of 40K? One turn of shooting, hmmm good choice. I highly recommend investing in additional Warwalkers so they can be guided too. Or Dark Reapers, guide and fortune those. SCARY one-shot, one-turn, wonders.

6) Mobility is king in 40K. Being able to move and fire is great. The Avatar doesn't shoot, and doesn't boost anyones shooting ability. Sure that last Guardian is going to stay around until he eats another heavy bolter round and finally dies, but so what? If you were smart and advanced your Guardians every turn, and kept the gunner ahead of cover on the way back to your board edge...I like to call this 'tactics' but it seems lost on people. Yes, I will shoot you with my stupid Scatter Laser guardians until you kill them; whether I have an Avatar or I don't. Whether they break or don't.

7) Better to not be seen at all, than to be seen and be 'almost' invulnerable. Especially when everyone can see you, and shoot you. My Eldar army apparently infuriates all that play it, because the only thing they can shoot at are my Falcons or the Biker Council. Everyone's favorite topic of discussion when it comes to unkillability. The Avatar and Eldrad? Shoot the Avatar dead. Oh was he fortuned? Fine, I'll shoot the Dark Reapers. Or the War Walkers. Eldrad is good at casting powers, but he can't make up for T3 and AV10. Everyone makes a big talk about bringing these units in combination with Eldrad, then talk about Tri-Falcon. Really? So you have 5 heavy supports? Neat! Make up your mind, are you running Mech Eldar or foot slogging Eldar? You can't run both! Well, you CAN but if you run Wave Serpents with a bunch of infantry...I'm sure your opponent will find it an odd combination. Then proceeed to beat you.

8) What else can I get for 365 points? Well, you can get 2 Falcons. You can get a Warlock Biker squad. 4 Guardian squads. Lots of stuff, that will be effective.

9) Counters: Tyranids. Well quite a few people think Choirs are autowins if you run foot Eldar without the Avatar / Eldrad Combo. I find this interesting, given you lack a serious amount of points just so Zoanthropes can't give you penalties. Aren't you mobile? You can split your army along the board edges, and stay beyond a dakkafexes range for a long time. Does being Fearless prevent you from being shot to pieces once they get in range? No. Given most well-run Tyranid lists are gunwalls and the lists running 2-3 groups of MC, some in front and some in back....are just not sound tactically, and the gunwalls hide Genestealers, Raveners, and/or Gaunts...all units that can match or beat your speed; you can't really tie down TMC lists in CC with Guardians. It's too easy to block or eradicate with a properly run gunwall. Eldrad gives extra protection and more shooty, but the Tyranid MC list will nullify your Falcons, and put tons of wounds on everything else he could be protecting (or in the case of Serpents, Vypers, and War Walkers; just blow them up). If you are running pathfinders and Dark Reapers, what happens when the TMC get to 18" and put 6-7 wounds on your squads? Being fortuned only goes so far. All these units are vulnerable to assault, so without a solid counterattack you're in trouble. The Avatar isn't bad, but if he runs into a Hive Tyrant with implant attack he drops, and if he gets shot...he better be fortuned. Not that most TMC lists will care about the Avatar, they'll punish all those cheap guardian units first then worry about him. Eldrad hurts TMC, one wound at a time...exciting and effective in CC he isn't. Even MW doesn't really faze TM lists.

10) Counters: Drop Podding Librarians with Fear of the Darkness. Not something I favor myself, as it's easily dealt with. As most drop pod armies are entirely drop, you run your entire army forward if you are foot bound. Unlike static shooting armies, Eldar can maneuver and shoot drop pod armies to pieces once they arrive as they are then horribly static armies with...bolters. If you are forward, when and if Fear comes, a couple units will break. So what. Unless he is psychic, he won't know which ones will break; and he has to drop everything he got reserves in for before he can drop fear on your army. It also has a serious drawback, in that against savvy players they'll give you a couple units to 'feed' on and hope they break so the supporting squad cannot shoot you (thus cannot reduce you below half, and since it's your next turn...you'll be able to try rally, but even if you fail...you can still move and shoot.) Still in range because you rolled low, and cannot rally? Fleet! All you need to do is get the other guy to think his 'uber' tactic is not going to work because you'll rally next turn and he'll drop pod a marine unit in a bad spot just to escort your squad off the board. Awesome! You can nullify a 200 point squad with a cheap 100 point squad...this is bad, how? If you don't fall back off the board, don't forget to shoot 'em with the heavy weapon. Now add in some more advanced tactics, and you'll find you've nothing to fear from the darkness. Put squads in a long line (max coherency horizontally). The cheap ones you could care less about. Move them forward, fleeting ahead. Now put 3" between your squads vertically. Sorry, there are no 1" drop pods. Do the math. With just TWO cheap squads in front and 2 on the side, you can nullify almost everything a drop pod army can do to your entire army. 10 guardians covers 22" of board. 1" away from your models is the closest he can place. Your models are 1" across. With 3" between the squads in front and behind...that's 1+1+3+1+3. Woah is that 12"? Oh too bad, so sad. You can't get anything but my cheap guardians + 1 'good' unit with your librarian. Good luck with that strategy. Assuming you roll a hit or don't scatter away from me, you get...3 squads? Big deal. Let's say 4. 2 run away, pretty much every time. Since you should be 10" to 17" up (if you didn't get to go first, squads 1 + 2), you should have no problem getting away and trying to rally. Even if you don't, so what? He's wasted alot of points on the Librarian, Command Squad, and Drop Pod (even more fun if it's a terminator squad!). Gee, why do I need to spend 155 points to 'save' what isn't going to be lost? Save 2 squads? Oh boy! I just spent 75% of their points to 'save' them. Why not just let the Librarian come, then shoot/assault his entire unit to death. They're just marines, after all.

11) I expect a lot of one liners coming into this thread, and while I can't do anything about the people who swear they have 'perfect' foils for everything I say and do; the truth is the truth. Eldar run properly are very hard to beat. Phil Kelly saw to that with the new Codex. I just don't think Eldrad and the Avatar are good for their points, and this was brought to his attention before and after publication. You may find use in them, but if you ever face me in a game I'll make you regret taking them. Not just with my drop pod list or my TMC list. With any army (I have all of them, barring the Inquisitorial crapfest and the Necraponicon), I'll make you feel those 365 points sunk into two slow cheerleaders. They can't be everywhere, and they can't do much from across the board but be annoying.

12) 5th edition. I expect alot of people to change their mech Eldar lists. They can't handle the new rules. I've been examining them as they get pushed out. I think my Autarch on a bike will be replaced with a 2nd farseer on a bike...maybe. That's it. The Eldar aren't indestructible as they stand now, but since the Eldar Codex was designed with 5th edition in mind when it comes out next year I think alot of people will be surprised at how resilient Phil Kelly's design is. I will fear Wraithguard, for the first time in almost a decade. I guess you'll all just have to watch and see for yourself, but unless Hasbro-Mart takes over the hobby or Jervis kills Phil off and puts Gav in his place (or allows Allessio to put more Fantasy rules in) the Eldar; both foot and mech, will be completely viable and the above advice will hold true. Remember, what works against deep strike works against other new strategies being added to the game....and if you bring Eldrad without bringing a Phoenix Lord or the Avatar, he'll get shot off the board along with his squad. Oh and divination won't be useless like some people think. Trust me.

Post your 5th ed 1850p Eldar mech list.

I'm not sure if it's as dire as you say but your probably right. I've been trying to think of what my next gen list is going to be. I've tried the avatar elderad gun line. And like you said so many time before stelek good generalship can pull it though. You just feel like your playing at a disadvantage because your shooting base needs to follow the avatar around. You can hide him, but then you aren't mobile. A question I'm going to need answered is whether or not fortune can be cast on vehicles before I give up on them.

My one-liner:
You sir, are a muppet.

Rebuttal:
Eldratard at 1850 is the absolute best pick for any non-mechanized list that includes a farseer.

The avatar is 155pts of melta-shooting, fearless causing, close combat denying, rerollable 3+/4+ monster.

Eldrad is as good as two farseers for fewer points, and lets you redeploy a unit. He's frigging amazing. I originally disagreed with this, but I came around after thinking about it a lot.

He can use any of the powers, all of which (barring eldritch crap) are good. mind warring heavy weapons squads, fortuning advancing units, guiding warwalkers, whatever.

Since mechanized is by far the more powerful list in 4th edition you are correct. In 4e, Eldratard is a poor choice, because autarchs are a better choice for mechanized. However, 5th ed skimmer nerf + rending nerf + the KP changes will make the mechanized army essentially useless.

plus, I wonder how you got the energy to write six pages about something everyone already knows?

wow, mechanized Eldar are the best in 4th edition, and Eldrad is too expensive for that. thanks for the news flash there olson.

Stelek wrote:

3) At more normal points levels of 1750, 1850, and 2000 points....optimized lists still have a 21%, 20%, and 18.5% advantage. Rounded my math, be kind and spare me the equation to Pi, please.

Stelek, it appears you want to take the worst of two stances.

You like to optimise like a minimaxer. Thats ok, so long as you dont fall into the minimaxers trollpit of decrying anything not optimised as 'sucks'.
However your optimisation stats are far more often wrong that right.

You like to diversify like a themed gamer. Taking options the minimaxers, and the herd that follow them, would not take.
Howver you dont do it to theme an army but as misguided optimisation.


Stelek, feel free to find ways to take rarer choices and unit combinations for your armies. You will in time become a very good player by learning to play well without resorting to minimaxing, after all anyone can minimax. However if you insist on trying to become the next math guru, listen to what the other minimaxers are saying, they have a concensus, and reluctantly they have a point.

"Eldrad + Avatar isnt good"

Stelek, you suck at this game, understand NOTHING about eldar synergy, and offer probably the worst advice I've ever seen on Dakka....especially for eldar.

Your post smacks of someone who just got schooled by an Eldrad/Avatar list and wants to blow off steam. To say that they suck and arent worth the points is sheer idiocy...really...give it up. (though I know you wont)

Not everyone will stand there and let you blast Eldrad off of the board. Even in 5th, Eldrad can hide BEHIND vehicles (warwalkers). Smart players wont let you simply shoot the lynchpins of their armies. Especially considering your static lists that you constantly post.

1) What surprise? Everyone knows what Eldravatar can do by now or are Noobs....their synergy is still reliable however.

2) I cant see an "Advantage" since Eldravatar is so effective...against any army.

3) Any point limit, the combo is still effective.

4) Avatar only a cheerleader...more like he is a rock that holds the army together, nigh unkillable with Eldrad in tow.

5) Eldrad is such a versitile force multiplyer it isnt even funny. He's capable of MUCH more than just guide and fortune, if you dont know that, you havent played and experemented with him enough.

6) No the Avatar doenst boost shooting ability. A unit of 10 shooting a heavy weapon until the last man is dead without fear of routing or last man standing checks even with a leadership of only 8 hasnt been boosted at all.

7) Again, you obviously dont understand the versatility of Eldrad. More than simple fortune and guide. He murders multible wound models in the endgame, sometimes lowers armour 14-13 to a simple 10, provides good psychic defense, great situational assault point defense against things harlequins might have trouble against, makes wounding against anything easier and more reliable....the list goes on.

8) 365 points you would trade in for HQ units wouldnt be NEARLY as effective as Eldrad and Avatar together.

9) Eldrad and Avatar work magic against tyranids, they're hardly a counter. Tyranids cant do ANYTHING against Eldravatar they cant do against the rest of the eldar list. You say that Tyranids are a counter when Eldrad can almost reliably KILL a tyranid monstrous creature a turn with mind war....throw in an avatar and you have serious damage done. You're number nine example is absolutly ridiculous.

10) I dont understand your aversion to fearlessness against FoTD. Since fearlessness trumps it and doenst even require clever positioning or tactics...it simply takes it out of the equation.

11) You'll make people regret taking Eldrad/Avatar. That makes tons of sense. Yea, I wish I didnt take units that effected my army as a whole with abilities that you arent able to shut down. If you beat someone with Eldravatar, it means you beat their list, not that Eldravatar is garbage....it isnt.

Eldrad/avatar has to be like the #1 combo you hate seeing as a daemon prince player. heh.

I'm going to play devils advocate a bit.

1. We all agree that avatar and elderad are slow, being slow they aren't that great for fast/mech armies.

2. Stelek believes that better eldar armies tend to have fast moving elements that wouldn't receive much benefit from the combo.

3. The list I see Stelek routinely refer to is a bike heavy army wih biked council and 3 falcons full of dragons.

Stelek loves his list, and thats fine. He believe a good eldar army should be fast, honestly I kind of agree. Now the crux of this argument is wether a ground pounding army is competitive or not. If it is, then there is more than likely a place in it for ederad and an avatar.

SO the first question is what does a competitive ground list look and play like? Is it full of waithguard guardians and wailords? Is it just guardian with DA support?

@Deadshane, Stelek cannot "offer the worst advice that you have ever seen on Dakka", can he? There has to have been somebody, sometime who offered worse advice. I just can't think of anyone right now. Can someone help me out here? Anyone?

Darrian

@gdraunt, Blackmoor did very well with his footslogging Eldar at the GT's this year. As a matter of fact, I believe that he has the highes overall battle points for any Eldar player in the circuit this year.

My point, footslogging Eldar are very powerful.

Darrian

It's a comedy everybody!

Longshot as Agent Polk.
Darrian as Lt. Snyder.
Deadshane as Doyle Lonnigan.
Orlanth as Floyd.

Ah the humor of the regular crowd humors me greatly. Thanks for being so predictably you!

Yes, this is all the response you rate, sorry fellas. Great comedy though!

gdurant wrote:I'm going to play devils advocate a bit.

1. We all agree that avatar and elderad are slow, being slow they aren't that great for fast/mech armies.

2. Stelek believes that better eldar armies tend to have fast moving elements that wouldn't receive much benefit from the combo.

3. The list I see Stelek routinely refer to is a bike heavy army wih biked council and 3 falcons full of dragons.

Stelek loves his list, and thats fine. He believe a good eldar army should be fast, honestly I kind of agree. Now the crux of this argument is wether a ground pounding army is competitive or not. If it is, then there is more than likely a place in it for ederad and an avatar.

SO the first question is what does a competitive ground list look and play like? Is it full of waithguard guardians and wailords? Is it just guardian with DA support?

It's always 2 Falcons full of Dragons, actually. My 3rd choice is always a Fire Prism.

I think if you are going to go ground, you need to max out your slots and not worry so much about bringing a cheerleading section. I don't know why some people think what they do, I just chalk it up to inexperience. So many people seem to fear 'The Gimmick' which can be removed by generalship but when we talk about THEIR 'The Gimmick' they think all of a sudden it's the best thing EVARGH!

I don't know if Wraithguard will ever be truly 'mobile', but like the other T6 400+ point units in the game (Nurgle Bikers) they're something to fear when they have a Warlock + Farseer (fortune for the 3/5 reroll) and are running up the board at you and you can't stop them. Right now, you can avoid them and pummel them with shots. When you can't avoid them I know I'm not looking forward to it. 20 T6 guys and 3 Wraithlords...toss in some Harlie or Shining Spear support to break MC's and assault squads off the Wraithlords...well, I haven't gotten anything better than a draw so far with 5 attempts in.

Darrian13 wrote:@gdraunt, Blackmoor did very well with his footslogging Eldar at the GT's this year. As a matter of fact, I believe that he has the highes overall battle points for any Eldar player in the circuit this year.

My point, footslogging Eldar are very powerful.

Darrian

cool beans, whats his list look like?

Stelek wrote:It's a comedy everybody!

Longshot as Agent Polk.
Darrian as Lt. Snyder.
Deadshane as Doyle Lonnigan.
Orlanth as Floyd.

Ah the humor of the regular crowd humors me greatly. Thanks for being so predictably you!

Yes, this is all the response you rate, sorry fellas. Great comedy though!

Believe it or not, you do actually have the option of not posting.

You might be received a little better (although it's probably too late for that) if instead of creating a topic that says basically "everyone's wrong and I'm right" without providing alternatives or explaining why those alternatives are better you asked "How sure are you that Eldrad+ Avatar is useful in 4th and 5th" and maybe used a little math (!) to back that up.

Terminizzle wrote:Believe it or not, you do actually have the option of not posting.

So do you! Please exercise that right more frequently.

Terminizzle wrote:You might be received a little better (although it's probably too late for that) if instead of creating a topic that says basically "everyone's wrong and I'm right" without providing alternatives or explaining why those alternatives are better you asked "How sure are you that Eldrad+ Avatar is useful in 4th and 5th" and maybe used a little math (!) to back that up.

Gee, was that your best attempt at a cheap shot? Try harder, or if you could just make the minimal effort and read what I posted. You know, the bit with the math in it. Do you need it in a formula before you can 'accept' it? 155/8*X+Y=Z. X is number of guardians. Y are warlocks and guns. Z is the points spent to gain said fearlessness. Factor out Z across 4 squads of Guardians (a reasonable number), where 1*G equals the number of shots you'll get with your heavy weapons vs marines. G can be ML, BL; Starcannon; or Scatter Laser. Effectiveness of all of these with 2 guides (from Eldrad) is still questionable. Maybe you've played Eldar before, and you're all excited with twin-linked BS3. It's been crap for a decade, but hey let's bury our head in the sand and pretend like all the other BS3 shots you've got that aren't twin-linked are suddenly going to do so much better.

Alot of you guys think spending more points on the cheapest troops you get (and that aren't very good) makes for a solid list. I scoff at the very idea. I'll take two more squads of guardians instead, and just suffer through not being fearless. Almost 10% of my army points for a big shoot me sign that makes everyone within range fearless? Please! You want to bring in real arguments, fellas?

Please, more 'Stelek sucks'. Really drives home my point that you have nothing but bullsh** to argue with. All the people reading this are getting a kick out of one of us, so it's all good. I'm here to entertain!

Eldrad can be great for a mech list:

Redeploy Skimmers pregame - it even affects an opponent who expects it.

Fortune a unit of Shining Spears first turn and guide 2x5 Pathfinders.

Move forward covered by Spears and Falcons going ahead.

Each turn doom a target to drastically improve Pathfinders and throw up to two Mindwars per turn against TMCs/Marines etc or rotate enemy tanks to hit their rears with multiple Falcon shots.

Using Eldrad like this of course only works with the right units, namely Harlequin carrying Falcons to zoom ahead accompanied by Spears. Pathfinders arent nesseccary but do work well.

The Avatar is far from useless in this list, but is a bit slow to really shine in comparison to Shining Spears (<-pun) plus Bike-Autarch.

Stelek wrote:All the people reading this are getting a kick out of one of us, so it's all good.

True that.

Raider, I have a few questions for ya.

Why would redeploying skimmers (who can already redeploy) affect anyone? Against Eldar you usually don't setup like a twit across the whole board, you sit in a corner and deny them their greatest strength--mobility. Don't you?

The Shining Spears being fortuned is great until after they assault after speeding, and get hurt in CC and/or hit n'run but can't be fortuned again and die.

Do you really get away with having Eldrad 18" from your opponents army? I'm just curious why he isn't getting killed. I'll trade an assault squad to kill him off. I dunno, I've never been MW'ed or or Stormed without being able to immediately threaten said Farseer. Doom is fine, I just don't see the strength in it unless you fire your whole army at the doomed unit. Which is usually not a great way to use your army.

Well anyways just curious what the answers are.

Redeployment: Theres normally some pieces of area 3 terrain and an opponnent can either split his force (good for Eldar) to snipe around the terrain from both sides, or he will keep his army in one place covering only one side of the area terrain. Redeployment allows Eldar to set up in an optimum angle behind terrain after the opponent made his decision.

Btw its funny to place a model like Eldrad next to the table when setting up even if you wont actually use him. I do that with Space Wolve OBEL-Scouts at times, often taunting an opponent into guessing games.

Spears alone dont do well unfortuned similarly to an unsupported Eldrad, but using them all in conjunction with 2 units of Harlequins and (possibly tankshocking) Falcons changes the equation.

Even using Eldrad as a bait to make the opponent send his fast stuff ahead can work in your favor, given that Eldrad can survive a bit of a beating on his own as long as you make sure not whole sqads can make it into contact. (using terrain and skimmers to hinder opponents movement.)

Open for business again. And enough with the flaming.

The Eldratard just isn't that great for Mech. If you want to disprove it's strengths, it has to be looked at in an advancing or static gunline setup. Trying to argue about it in a mech list (where it is a slight mismatch at best) is like arguing that knives suck because they can't be used to eat soup.

Raider: Cheap and evil but funny!

Whoah. Just realized how useful Eldrad will be with Run around. Sitting still to cast shooting-phase powers is going to be a bad idea when everyone else is super mobile. Being able to use multiple powers (or instances of the same power) during other phases is going to rock. He's a Fortune pump for me as soon as 5th begins.

Stelek wrote:Reasons why Eldatatard isn't good in 4th edition:

1) All the newbs you pwned with it have figured it out. The advantage of surprise is over.

2) At 'wussy' points levels of 1500 points, optimized lists have a 365 point advantage on you. It's crippling. (Almost 25%)

3) At more normal points levels of 1750, 1850, and 2000 points....optimized lists still have a 21%, 20%, and 18.5% advantage. Rounded my math, be kind and spare me the equation to Pi, please. Trust me.

I was tempted to pick apart your points one by one and show everyone (again) how wrong you are, but Longshot did a good job of it.

As for proof of its effectiveness, I took the Eldrad/Avatar combo to several events this year and the only thing in my army that had a base move over 6” was my 2 Falcons.

I went 4-0-1 with 80 battle points (3 above Steleks Mech list) at the Las Vegas GT
I went 5-0 with 97 battle points at Baltimore GT (I would have gotten a perfect 100 battle points, but I misread the missions and I thought you needed to keep a unit alive, when you needed to kill it, and I put it on my fortuned Dark Reapers that never die).

Oh, and I also went on to win 2nd place at the Game Empire Pasadena ‘Ardboyz, tournament, won the Southern California semi-finals, and went 2-1 at the finals.

And I did all of that wasting my points on the Avatar/Eldrad combo. The odd thing is that most players buy 2 HQs that cost a lot anyways, so you might was well buy the best.

In 10 of my GT games, the Avatar only died once, and that was after 2 rounds of Tau shooting that he should have shot at my army. He was upset afterwards because if the went for the strait out gun duel, he would have shot me off of the table, but he chose to take down the Avatar.

gdurant wrote:

Darrian13 wrote:@gdraunt, Blackmoor did very well with his footslogging Eldar at the GT's this year. As a matter of fact, I believe that he has the highes overall battle points for any Eldar player in the circuit this year.

My point, footslogging Eldar are very powerful.

Darrian

cool beans, whats his list look like?

Ask, and you shall receive!

Not only will I show you my list, here are my 5 games at the Las Vegas GT:
Game #1
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/168713.page
Game #2
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/168916.page
Game #3
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/169437.page
Game #4
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/169568.page
Game #5
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/169568.page

The funny thing is that he says that the Avatar is just a cheerleader, but if it was not for him, I would have lost game #5. I was hit by DE Wyches that killed my Dire Avengers, then killed my Harlequins, and them would have gone through the rest of my army.



Here is the last turn of Game #1 at the Baltimore GT where you had to get the most scoring units within 12" of the middle of the table. You see that he has 3 scoring units, and Mr Avatar makes it 4 for me. Are there any other Eldar HQs that are scoring units?

And see that Monolith to the right? It was shot down by a Guardian Brightlance!

All I want to see is a picture, Blackmoor.

Glad you did well with your army against your opponents, kudos to you.

I'll withhold comment till I see a pic.

Stelek wrote:All I want to see is a picture, Blackmoor.

Glad you did well with your army against your opponents, kudos to you.

I'll withhold comment till I see a pic.

Pictures steal your soul.

Here is one when I was not looking

http://www.adepticon.org/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1151&g2_serialNumber=1
Hmm, didn't come out. I will change it to a URL.

Picture of what? I think we can ALL see very clearly that Blackmoor has proven you wrong.


Darrian

lol poor darrian. You just never give up.

Blackmoor which one is you? lol can't see anything.

Eldrad is pretty much the only thing that will make a wraithguard list viable too =P

Longshot wrote:Eldrad is pretty much the only thing that will make a wraithguard list viable too =P

What makes you think so? Just curious.

The double Farseer/double Wraithguard troops army has been kicking my trash. lol and here I thought Nurgle Bikers were annoying.