Lord-Loss Genestealer Game 1-GAME OVER, GENESTEALERS CLAIM VICTORY.

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**VictorVonTzeentch**

Yeah sorry, just got a little mixed up.

**airman**

Thor665 wrote:Brother Stynier, Mekboy, airman - you can all still vote and I suggest you do, though just at this very moment I would suggest not totally dropping the hammer on anyone. Getting someone to L-1 (1 vote from lynch) could be quite helpful in getting pressure on them. Also, if any of you three are more suspicious of someone who doesn't have any votes on them then NOW is the time to get a vote on them and proclaim why you think they are guilty because you are fast running out of time to change anyone's mind.

Ok I'll put some pressure on Arheiner.
VOTE: Arheiner

**Thor665**

@airman - Are you just voting to put pressure on him, or are you voting for him because you believe he is the most likely Genestealer? If you believe he's the most likely Genestealer - why do you believe this?

Also, to make sure everyone is aware - another vote for either Mekboy or Arhenier will be the lynch vote for that person.

@Mekboy & Arheiner - now that you both sit at L-1 it might be a good time for each of you to express reasons we shouldn't vote for you or point out strong arguments to suggest we should be voting for someone else. If you are loyalists it is most helpful to the other loyalists and yourself if you can offer up all evidence you can and try to showcase all suspicions you have before you get lynched - and also town really doesn't want to get lynched because a town lynch does not help us.

**airman**

Thor665 wrote:@airman - Are you just voting to put pressure on him, or are you voting for him because you believe he is the most likely Genestealer? If you believe he's the most likely Genestealer - why do you believe this?

I'm voting to put pressure on him.

**Mekboy**

I feel that throughout this game Stynier has been using some decidedly dodgey logic to accuse various players of being genestealers. His votes towards the start seemed somewhat random (by which I mean he was switching between them a lot). Also, more recently, Arhiener's apology for voting appear slightly suspicious, but I am less suspicious of him than Stynier. I would think it better for this group as a whole if we could se his explanation before voting rashly.

**Arheiner**

I'd have to say that I feel the less safe of the two on L-1 due to Mekboy's counting ability and that he can still vote, but I'll admit at first I may have been suspicious as I was too cautious of traitors and believe it's hard to go on what people just say when you've got little evidence and different interpretations, though I realised that it's better to go on something than nothing. My main problem now is I have to hunt scum and not be slightly suspicious at the same time due to this situation. The reason I apologised for my vote was because by that time it had put a lot of pressure on us -2 traitors so we have to hit a traitor now or tomorrow. Then people started viewing any slightly possible suspicious action (that's worded badly, I mean anything remotely leading to a lead for a traitor) and by what had happened, I was jumped on first

As an end note, I'm 70%-80% sure that one of Stynier and Airman is a traitor, and if you vote me off that's almost definate.

**Mekboy**

I am fully aware you are 1 vote from being lynched, Arheiner, and will not be voting for you just yet.

**Thor665**

@Mekboy and Arhenier

I note that both of you list off Stynier as a likely suspect, this is a suspicion I share. However, currently Arheiner is voting for Mekboy and Mekboy is voting for no one - how do each of you feel your suspicion of Stynier ranks as compared to your suspicion of each other?

To rephrase since that did seem slightly oddly worded;

@Arheiner - currently you are voting for Mekboy but state high suspicion of Stynier. Who of the two do you suspect more and why?

@Mekboy - currently you are voting no one but have commented about suspicion of Stynier. Is he your top suspect?

@Gornall (if/when you escape the holiday festivities) as the initial starter of the wagon on Mekboy, how do you feel about where it currently stands and what are your thoughts on my Arhenier wagon?

**airman**

(Just to let you guys know I will be gone until Dec. 26 due to my family Christmas party. I will try to check in as much as I can)

**Lord-Loss**

Ok 2 day game extension. Damn Xmas

**Gornall**

At first glance, my suspicion of Mekboy is lessened somewhat, as he hasn't voted off Arnheiner yet. From a short term perspective, that would be his best play, but if he thinks that killing off Arnheiner would be the final nail in his own coffin, I can see why he wouldn't do that.

On the other side of the coin, if he is innocent, I'm kind of suprised that he hasn't voted simply to save himself and lynch Arnheiner. Better to lynch someone he is unsure about than to allow someone he knows to be innocent to be lynched. Once again, though, it's the idea of playing the short game versus the long game. If he lynches someone today, he makes himself a prime target for tomorrow. However, if Arnheiner and Mekboy are in cohoots together, that's a pretty good reason why he wouldn't want to pull the trigger.

As to your wagon, Thor, my biggest reason for suspecting Arnheiner is his interaction with Mekboy. Without assuming Mekboy is guilty, this rationale falls through. His first day actions were slightly suspicious, but I don't think they stand out on their own.

The current events seem to fit a Mekboy/Arnheiner alliance, as Mekboy is reluctant to pull the trigger and Arnheiner was defensive of him earlier. Further, they both offer the same person (Stynier) as an alternative, but haven't yet provided rationale as to why. However, this could very well be confirmation bias on my part and I'm interested to hear why they suspect Stynier.

**Thor665**

((OOC - Thank you for the extension Lord-Loss! That means our Day Phase will end on Wednesday of next week.))

Gornall, I'll disagree with you about Arheiner needing Mekboy as a partner - as I've said, I could see a reasonable pairing of him with either you or Stynier. I will agree he seems most likely to be paired with Mekboy, but I feel he is more likely to be scum regardless of whether Mekboy is scum or not. Also, the only partner who seems clear for Mekboy in my mind is Arheiner, which decreases the logic of voting Mekboy at this juncture in my mind.

With your proposal of a Mekboy/Arheiner Genestealer pair why do you feel Mekboy is the better lynch today as opposed to Arheiner?

Other then that I feel your post is fairly ripe with WIFOM arguments that could go lots of ways. I would caution about allowing yourself to get too gnarled up in them this early in the process. Mekboy has reasons to both drop the hammer and not drop the hammer on Arheiner regardless of whether one, neither, or both of them are Genestealers.

**Mekboy**

Thor, yes I do currently find Stynier the most suspicious. And, while I find Arhiener suspicious too, I have less reason to believe he is a genestealer.

**Gornall**

That's a good point about a possible Arnheiner lynch over Mekboy even if I suspect both, as that does cover the possibility of an alliance of Arnheiner/Stynier (I'll have to look over that before I think about changing my vote). I have been going with Mekboy as I think his actions stand on their own (hammering Vulkan, jumping on established wagons, etc) but are also supported by other factors such as Arnheiner defending him.

What makes either a Stynier/Arnheiner or a Stynier/Gornall pairing seem likely?

As a small aside, did anyone think it was strange that Stynier made a "mistake" about the vote count on Mekboy?

EDIT:

What makes either a Stynier/Arnheiner or a Stynier/Gornall pairing seem likely?

should read:

What makes either a Stynier/Arnheiner or a Arnheiner/Gornall pairing seem likely?

I got my nier's and einer's confused.

**Thor665**

Mekboy wrote:Thor, yes I do currently find Stynier the most suspicious. And, while I find Arhiener suspicious too, I have less reason to believe he is a genestealer.

I would advocate you advancing that theory more stridently then. Currently no one is really looking at Stynier and it is your responsibility if you have the suspicion to try and express it to others and prove its worth as a hook to hang a vote on.

Gornall wrote:What makes either a Stynier/Arnheiner or a Stynier/Gornall pairing seem likely?

For the record I proposed a Arheiner/Stynier and Arheiner/Gornall pairing over a Gornall/Stynier pairing (though I accept that one as a possibility. As I expressed in my initial post about this concept I find the four of you to have the most scummy seeming actions to my mind. I explained why I thought a Styneir/Mekboy and Gornall/Mekboy seemed unlikely and pointed out a fairly strong belief in a Arhenier/Mekboy. With those beliefs (Arnheiner and/or Mekboy as most likely scum, Mekboy not pairing with brother S or Gornall, and Brother S and Gornall with a tertiary scum likelihood) I outlined my belief in the probable scum pairs I have advanced. If I had to list my three biggest suspects it would be Arheiner, Mekboy, and Brother Stynier - since I cannot see Brother Stynier and Mekboy being paired together considering their actions on Day 1 and today logic dictates I vote for the lynchpin who also has potential connections to the two other top suspects in my eyes.

As far as going into specifics I don't want to do that just yet because partly the suspicions are gut reads, partly they are still ongoing investigations I'm working on, and partly because their relevance has little bearing to my active action of suggesting Arheiner is scum and should be lynched. I'll happily discuss why I think any individual from my stated four is scum, but the scum pairs work is a bit more archaic of a discussion and one I feel is a bit more damaging to dwell on openly at this time (it is much more important in lylo situations, which will be tomorrow if we fail to lynch scum).

Gornall wrote:As a small aside, did anyone think it was strange that Stynier made a "mistake" about the vote count on Mekboy?

No more or less so then Mekboy's "mistake" hammer on Day 1. How much scumminess you attribute to it is a bit of a personal thing after that.

**Gornall**

I am pretty much ready to change my vote to Arnheiner, as he does have more potential partners than Mekboy. I feel pretty good about the two of them being traitors together, so it really doesn't matter to me which one gets lynched first. My only misgiving is a possible Thor/Mekboy pairing, but I feel that to be less likely than the other options. Anyone have any last comments before I drop the hammer?

**Thor665**

Personally I'd like to give Arheiner time to answer my question and also for n0t_u to show up again and offer some commentary prior to any hammer drop. Not a giant concern, but I usually like to have all questions answered and definitely at least hear grunts from everyone else in agreement of a proposed lynch.

**Gornall**

Exactly... hence why I'm stating my intent before changing my vote. I want everyone to have plenty of time to make any final arguments before pulling the trigger. (OOC:: Especially with the holidays) *Eyes Mekboy*

**Arheiner**

Thor665 wrote:

@Arheiner - currently you are voting for Mekboy but state high suspicion of Stynier. Who of the two do you suspect more and why?

The vote is still there so I'm not the only one under the gun. The odds are one of Airman and/or Stynier are a traitor as I know i'm innocent, and therefore they are 2 of the most suspicious 4 (including me.) If I remove my vote for Mekboy however, he's no longer on L-1 and therefore I'm under far more pressure, and you're far more likely to kill off me, which puts far more pressure on a traitor being lynched tomorrow. Stynier is the most suspect, but without pressure on him it's probably a lost cause for today.

OOC-Merry Christmas, it's Xmas day in Aussie and NZ

**Gornall**

Arnheiner... I'm still interested in hearing exactly why you suspect Airman and Stynier. You keep mentioning that you suspect him, but I haven't seen concrete reasoning as to why. Why is he a better candidate for a lynch than yourself?

**Thor665**

I agree with Gornall. Explain out your logic - between you I and Gornall we're 3/4ths of the way to a lynch if you can present a good argument for the airman/Stynier ticket.

**Mekboy**

Hey, a while ago I found this old scroll here. It detailled an ancient Terran festivity that took place many milleniae ago, which appears to have been known as 'eks-mas'. Some sort of creature, known as 'Santy Claws' was worshipped on this day each year, and in return this creature, which was obviously some form of daemon attempting to corrupt humanity, delivered wrapped gifts to the entire planet in one night. Obviously, with the crude technology available to the planet back then, this would have been nigh on impossible for one creature, suggesting that many daemons may have worked together on this. Anyway, merry 'Eks-mas' to all of you, except you genestealer scum.

**airman**

Merry "Eks-mas" to you mekboy.

**SagesStone**

Thor665 wrote:Personally I'd like to give Arheiner time to answer my question and also for n0t_u to show up again and offer some commentary prior to any hammer drop. Not a giant concern, but I usually like to have all questions answered and definitely at least hear grunts from everyone else in agreement of a proposed lynch.

My reason is the same as it was at the time I made my vote. He seemed the most suspicious as Mekboy dropping the hammer on Vulkan could have just been a mistake. He at first said he wanted to stay mostly out of the picture until a good vote presented itself. He then quickly changed through the Random Voting Phase simply because my vote went to him because he mentioned how he wanted to stay quiet and wait for the best time to vote. That seemed suspicious to me as that could also possibly include voting like Mekboy apparently did as a mistake. Other than that the other people that seem suspicious to me are Mekboy and Styner, but at the moment they do not appear as the most suspicious to me. If we're unlucky, Styner turns out to be one of the Genestealers and has done a very good job at manipulation. I'm suspicious of him, but not 100% decided on him yet. It's more of a 50-50 chance.

Hopefully no one comes and throws the hammer at either of these two until it's the right time for the lynch; we don't want anymore accidental loyalist deaths.

Merry Christmas everyone

**Thor665**

For the record I feel we've given Arheiner sufficient time to come in and defend himself more or post suspicions against Stynier. I am quite content if someone wishes to drop the hammer. With the lack of posting I see no advantage to waiting till Wednesday.

Gornall has explained his reasons and logic - if anyone else wants to drop the hammer please explain specifically why you're voting Arheiner before you do.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

You wish the hammer drop on him do you? Well I could easily do it, though that would cast more suspicion my way as he has already voiced himself as being against me. That alone would give you more than enough motive to kill me tomorrow should he be innocent.

I would drop the hammer on him for the following reasons, his unwillingness to explain why he finds me most suspicious, others who claim me as a threat have stated simply as to why. My behavior on the first day, my seeming ability to "manipulate" people into doing things, this I have not seen in practice but at least its a reason.

Arheiner has not given anything to support his reasons why and that is why I am wary of him. It seems he wishes just to side with those that are wary of me in order to get them to come for me, almost like he wants to slip in and 'accidentally' deliver the vote which will lead to my death.

But I feel I cannot vote for him at the moment, as if he were not the traitor scum you would all turn on me, and then you would have been my subtle assassin Thor, killing me by me voting.

**Arheiner**

It seems like my death may help our victory at this rate. Drop the hammer on me and your options for the pairing become much less than they are now. Either way, just hit a traitor next time.

**Gornall**

Why do you suspect Airman/Stynier?

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Even now you don't try to defend your reasoning for voting for me! You simply assume, you sit around hoping to get people to vote for me, yet when you vote you chose another target, perhaps one you know is loyal? All the while waiting for four people to vote for me so that you my silence me.

**Thor665**

BrotherStynier wrote:But I feel I cannot vote for him at the moment, as if he were not the traitor scum you would all turn on me, and then you would have been my subtle assassin Thor, killing me by me voting.

Melodrama much?

If you think I'm being your "subtle assassin" somehow then please come out and state how my push on Arheiner and feelings of suspicion towards Mekboy, Gornall, and you somehow makes me the master of a giant plot to get you to vote for Arheiner so I can lynch you on Day 3. This is an incredibly scummy post you're making and is an appeal to emotion without any sort of supply of reasoning or logic. I really see no reason for you to post like you have if you are a loyalist.

@arheiner - the hammer still has not been dropped on you. If you have any suspicions that have not yet been stated now is a good time to get them out as they will help the rest of the loyalists on Day 3.