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Saldiven wrote:[quote=LeggyThird, I don't think Incubi statlines currently have WS5 and I5, and the only change noted was the increased attacks (to make up for the loss of the tormenter helm). (

Then you would be mistaken!!

The current/original Codex: Dark Eldar has Incubi at WS 5 and Initiative 5 with 1 Attack. If, in fact, the only change made to their statline is the number of attacks, then the new Incubi will still have WS and I of 5.

The current Incubi stats are fine. I guess stats and point costs will not change.
It appears they will become Elites (and longer be a retinue) and so it will be possible to field two or three units of them.
Could be an interesting themed army.

Kanluwen wrote:And Space Marines at one point could have Shuriken Catapults.

What's your point?

You do know that the the Shuriken Catapult, back in those days at least, wasn't an Eldar weapon - it was as generic as the Bolter or Lascannon.

Well aware of that, HB.

It's ridiculous to expect things to stay the same in a Codex, especially one as old as the Dark Eldar codex. It's even more ridiculous to expect them to maintain pieces of fluff that they've moved past in that codex.

Well, Incubi should stay Incubi.
Its a unit with unique features that none of the other races have, like Pariahs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now I could field two or three units of them in Raiders or Venoms.
That would be bad news for the enemy.

wuestenfux wrote:
Now I could field two or three units of them in Raiders or Venoms.
That would be bad news for the enemy.

That could be about 250-300 points per unit. About half 1500p army. Risky... but sweeet for Apocalypse battles!

Well, three times six Incubi in Venoms would be fine, too.

Kanluwen wrote:It's ridiculous to expect things to stay the same in a Codex, especially one as old as the Dark Eldar codex. It's even more ridiculous to expect them to maintain pieces of fluff that they've moved past in that codex.

Which is why I keep saying "The fluff isn't sacred". Seems no one is listening to us.

I wish more people would. Everyone takes the fluff too damn seriously.

Sidstyler wrote:I wish more people would. Everyone takes the fluff too damn seriously.

Fluff? Dark Eldar? I guess I've missed something.

I meant fluff in general. But yeah.

So anyway, how about them rules?

Three small tidbits that are too uncertain to include in the summary:

1.) Venom is mentioned in the Lelith background info, an indication that it is not limited to Harlequins. Seems to be a separate entry and basically a cheaper Raider with smaller transport capacity for elite and elite and HQ units.

2.) Warriors will get MANY extra special/heavy weapons (Frgt/10).

3.) Razorwing was a Dark Eldar double hull flyer by Forge World that is OOP for quite some time (single hull still available http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Dark_Eldar/DARK-ELDAR-RAVEN-FIGHTER.html ). One poster claimed a Razorwing being HS in the Codex, not sure if it is and if it is this one.

Never seem a Razorwing. Looks interesting.
Could be a mount for two dark lances.

There was a double hull version?

Originally it had a 36" splinter cannon and a single TL Dark Lance for 200 points, so it wasn't exactly broken.

Sidstyler wrote:There was a double hull version?

Yes, after Jes watched "The Emperor strikes back"

Yeah. Like the Cloud City patrol vehicles from Empire Strikes Back.

See, Sid, in the future, having planes with two separate cockpits will be far more efficient and actually less confusing for the people flying the craft.

Kroothawk wrote:Originally it had a 36" splinter cannon and a single TL Dark Lance for 200 points, so it wasn't exactly broken.

Sidstyler wrote:There was a double hull version?

Yes, after Jes watched "The Emperor strikes back"

For these pt costs, it could be a flyer.

Maybe there is an HQ version with Asdrubal and his ex-wife steering it

wuestenfux wrote:For these pt costs, it could be a flyer.

Yes, it was a flyer.

Kroothawk wrote:Maybe there is an HQ version with Asdrubal and his ex-wife steering it

wuestenfux wrote:For these pt costs, it could be a flyer.

Yes, it was a flyer.

For a flyer, the pt costs are acceptable.
I guess then that it will not be in the codex.

Wouldn't be too far-fetched for them to get a "flyer", given the Valkyrie/Vendetta and Storm Raven trend. Would actually be a great ploy to sell expensive models in droves, if they made them as good as Vendettas.

I thought that the Razorwing entry in the rumoured army list was a confusion, so the Raven would be finally included in the codex.

I guess FW discontinued the Razorwing for sales. DE weren't popular, Raven was cheaper and there were other options -probably better- like the Void Dragon Phoenix fighter/bomber.

New plastic kit goodness for Razorwing? Yay!

It will be very cool seeing what this flyer-issue finally results in.

will there be new models for these please?
( would be grateful for a simple yes or no and remembering this is a RULES thread )

Here you go:

2 new units in Heavy Support:
razorwing
Something completely new

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:will there be new models for these please?
( would be grateful for a simple yes or no and remembering this is a RULES thread )

There is rumoured something completely new for the first wave IIRC, but we don't know what it is. So... maybe

thanks chaps
sorry missed that Weusten

Re Twin cockpits
Nothing new under the Sun
Twin Mustang for example? There was a good reason for it, but that was due to work load sharing over long Pacific distances.
Not sure how that applies to hit and run DE raids

or rules for that matter again apologies for the OT comments.

No problem.

The HS section will eventually provide some interesting models.
However, in generally, you can't go out without three Ravagers.
It would have been better to move some of these tanks to FA
unless Ravagers could be taken in squadrons.

Similar for Eldar. I could imagine to see War Walkers in FA.

I don't think we'll see much in the way of walkers in the DE book. They tend to be slow and bulky, whereas the DE are meant to be a fast raiding force in the fluff. I'm pretty sure they'll be limited to skimmer-only type vehicles.

Yeah, this is somewhat negated by deep striking walkers, etc. but it takes time to recover those when you withdraw...

wuestenfux wrote:No problem.

The HS section will eventually provide some interesting models.
However, in generally, you can't go out without three Ravagers.
It would have been better to move some of these tanks to FA
unless Ravagers could be taken in squadrons.

Similar for Eldar. I could imagine to see War Walkers in FA.

To me, it kinda depends on what they do to Scourges. If they can move & fire with dark lances for a not too expensive cost, they will have certain advantages over a Ravager. They could obtain cover saves more easily, could hide more easily, it's much harder to kill the unit with a single shot from a single weapon, etc.

Also, since we don't know any of the rules for any of the HS units right now, it's kind of a stretch to assert that Ravagers will still be the only thing to take.

Scourges were always a strange unit.
Very fast but unable to shoot their dark lances on the move.
Its a kind of contradiction.
They should be moved to the Elite or FA section.

I like scourges. If you think, they are actually a very practical unit. They carry heavy weapons, but are also highly mobile. Their proper playstyle would be to start them in a good position, blast away at the enemy, and when they are no longer in a good overwatch position, jump them to another set of cover with a better field of view.

Just because you CAN move 12" a turn... doesn't mean you should...