Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hrm. I wonder if the "wych suit" is what gives the wyches their armor/invulnerable save. If so, then it might mean that the Reavers will get the inv save, too. That would drastically increase the usefulness of the jetbikes.

Rymafyr wrote:People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar

That's not necessarily true. There are a couple ways to look at it:

It could be a dedicated transport for Harlequins. If so, it is a Harlequin vehicle and, therefore, would be used neutrally by both races.

or (and this is what I think may be the case, despite what rumors say)

The Venom is an FA choice (like the Land Speeder Storm) that has a transport capacity of 6 Harlequins.

Or neither of these

Either way, I don't think it precludes the fact that Eldar won't be able to use them. I mean, look at the posted picture of the Venom - it is painted in an Eldar scheme, after all. But, we'll see soon enough, I suppose.

The venom could just as easily be reimagined to be more than just a small transport. It might be a variant kit or a stand alone, depending on what GW came up with.

I think if its truely a Harlequin only model, then GW will make it available in the Eldar Codex, but if its more widely available or more of a add-on to a Dark Eldar kit, GW will probably not.

puma713 wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar

That's not necessarily true. There are a couple ways to look at it:

It could be a dedicated transport for Harlequins. If so, it is a Harlequin vehicle and, therefore, would be used neutrally by both races.

or (and this is what I think may be the case, despite what rumors say)

The Venom is an FA choice (like the Land Speeder Storm) that has a transport capacity of 6 Harlequins.

Or neither of these

Either way, I don't think it precludes the fact that Eldar won't be able to use them. I mean, look at the posted picture of the Venom - it is painted in an Eldar scheme, after all. But, we'll see soon enough, I suppose.

My point here is that if the venom is not currently in the Eldar codex (since I have never looked at that codex), Eldar players would not be allowed to use it just because of it being an option for Harlies in the DE codex.

Agreed. I don't think they'll necessarily be getting retroactively. Then again GW could swing it like the Nightspinner.

Rymafyr wrote:People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar

Not all Harlequins are the same. Harlequins are "gifted" with equipment by Eldar and DEldar. It makes perfect sense that Harlequins who work with DEldar might be somewhat different from those who work with Eldar, in the same way that Inquisitors who fight Daemons are somewhat different from those who fight Xenos or Witches. So DEldar Harlies could have a Solitaire & Venom vs Eldar Harlies with Shadowseer & Death Jester.

The only codices that let you use units with a different codex is DH and WH, and the rumors people who matter have all said said allies are being done away with, so why would they make allies rules for Eldar and Dark Eldar. Its fun to wishlist that kind of stuff, but lets not delude ourselves.

Venom doesn't sound like a name for an Eldar vehicle. It sounds too mean for the craftworld types, and the name doesn't bring anything to mind about Harlequins. If it's name sounded Harlequin related then there might be grounds for debate here, but there's no reason to think that a vehicle named after poison would have anything to do with a bunch of jumping clowns.

Some points.

1: I suspect the +2d6 movement is Star Engines. Since the Eldar codex already has such a beast. No disembarking while using Afterburner, guys. I stand by my theory they're going to use the rule they've already posted for a similar benefit.

2: Venom: Wait and see. I lean towards the FA choice that can only carry Harlies, like the Speeder Storm. Since they like "similar units doing similar things" across codexes. Why the venom is only usable for DE? Because all DE attacks come straight out of the Webway in most fluff I've seen. The CW eldar don't usually do raids directly from the WW onto surfaces, they muster through the large portals and then attack. The original Venom from Codex: Harlequin was designed and build like it was to use the webway. Different attack styles use different technology.

3: I'm wondering if the Raven might not be a transport here too. This is my hope, not a start of a rumor. But I'd like to see a closed top falcon-analog for the DE.

The Raven already exists: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Dark_Eldar/DARK-ELDAR-RAVEN-FIGHTER.html
I don't see them reusing the name for no reason. If they were making it what you wanted they'd just make a whole new unit name.

Brother SRM wrote:Venom doesn't sound like a name for an Eldar vehicle.

Venom's were originally built off of a Vyper... if Vyper is fine enough for eldar I think Venom is as well.

I think Creon gives the only defensible 'fluff' based reason as to why they could include a transport for Harlequins in the Dark Eldar codex and not the Eldar codex. The other more logical reason would be, however, that GW didn't include it for the Eldar for 'game-play reasons'/'just didn't care to' and will not now let it cross over for simplicities sake.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar

Not all Harlequins are the same. Harlequins are "gifted" with equipment by Eldar and DEldar. It makes perfect sense that Harlequins who work with DEldar might be somewhat different from those who work with Eldar, in the same way that Inquisitors who fight Daemons are somewhat different from those who fight Xenos or Witches. So DEldar Harlies could have a Solitaire & Venom vs Eldar Harlies with Shadowseer & Death Jester.

Not to derail, but unless they changed the fluff drastically recently, and GW does do that frequently so I may be wrong about this, but this is more or less incorrect. Harlequins may receive 'gifts' from whoever, but they maintain no affiliation with any Eldar sect. There are no Harlequins that work predominantly with one group more than others. They maintain complete autonomy and supply their own means of carrying out warfare. As the undisputed masters of the webway, they move about craftworlds, exodite worlds-when they are known, the Dark Eldar home, corsair/pirate territory, etc... with equal ease but they are loyal to no one group more than any other. In war they serve their own purposes which at times converge or diverge with other Eldar sects. They are accepted by all types of Eldar as a necessary but mysterious institution--they are guardians of the Black Library and historians of Eldar history and secrets. Fluff-wise, there should be no difference between the two. Whether this will be realized on the tabletop is another matter entirely...

Rymafyr wrote:

puma713 wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar

That's not necessarily true. There are a couple ways to look at it:

It could be a dedicated transport for Harlequins. If so, it is a Harlequin vehicle and, therefore, would be used neutrally by both races.

or (and this is what I think may be the case, despite what rumors say)

The Venom is an FA choice (like the Land Speeder Storm) that has a transport capacity of 6 Harlequins.

Or neither of these

Either way, I don't think it precludes the fact that Eldar won't be able to use them. I mean, look at the posted picture of the Venom - it is painted in an Eldar scheme, after all. But, we'll see soon enough, I suppose.

Quite frankly...I see the Venom being a Dark Eldar "exclusive", retconned into being a faster, smaller Raider. Something built to carry small squads of Warriors, Scourges, or Mandrakes into battle.

Like I said earlier:
The Dark Eldar equivalent of a Falcon. Smaller transport capacity than the standard transport(Wave Serpent), but some benefits that outweigh the standard Raider.

My point here is that if the venom is not currently in the Eldar codex (since I have never looked at that codex), Eldar players would not be allowed to use it just because of it being an option for Harlies in the DE codex.

That's a very reasonable expectation. My speculation is simply based on my personal hope that GW was making up for the fact that Harlequins alone don't have access to a dedicated transport in the Eldar codex. In this scenario, GW would be making a special note that the Venom could be purchased by Eldar players as well as unlikely as this may be...

Purple Saturday wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar

Not all Harlequins are the same. Harlequins are "gifted" with equipment by Eldar and DEldar. It makes perfect sense that Harlequins who work with DEldar might be somewhat different from those who work with Eldar, in the same way that Inquisitors who fight Daemons are somewhat different from those who fight Xenos or Witches. So DEldar Harlies could have a Solitaire & Venom vs Eldar Harlies with Shadowseer & Death Jester.

Not to derail, but unless they changed the fluff drastically recently, and GW does do that frequently so I may be wrong about this, but this is more or less incorrect. Harlequins may receive 'gifts' from whoever, but they maintain no affiliation with any Eldar sect. There are no Harlequins that work predominantly with one group more than others. They maintain complete autonomy and supply their own means of carrying out warfare. As the undisputed masters of the webway, they move about craftworlds, exodite worlds-when they are known, the Dark Eldar home, corsair/pirate territory, etc... with equal ease but they are loyal to no one group more than any other. In war they serve their own purposes which at times converge or diverge with other Eldar sects. They are accepted by all types of Eldar as a necessary but mysterious institution--they are guardians of the Black Library and historians of Eldar history and secrets. Fluff-wise, there should be no difference between the two. Whether this will be realized on the tabletop is another matter entirely...

I've been playing Eldar since 2E, so I don't need you claiming me saying things that I didn't say. Harlequins may work with whomever they like. Some may prefer to work with DEldar, others Eldar, other Exodoes, and so on. There's no Fluff saying that each Harlequin spends his time equally with every other Eldar group they meet.

Harlies are indeed capable of fighting on their own. But if DEldars supply Venoms or whatnot, then that's fine, too. Fluff-wise, they're still Harlequins in the same way that all Spaz Marinz are the same, and from an Eldar POV, there are no differences between one PA-wearing giant and another. I haven't seen any Fluff that says they all fight identically with the same equipment and OOB every single time.

If you've got actual GW Fluff that states that all Harlequins are completely identical, etc, etc, please share the reference.

The Venom was, from the old Gav Thorpe experimental rules, more or less a cheap Raider with a holo-field option and weak guns. Unless they give it some new tricks, it's not really worth getting excited over.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Harlies are indeed capable of fighting on their own. But if DEldars supply Venoms or whatnot, then that's fine, too. Fluff-wise, they're still Harlequins in the same way that all Spaz Marinz are the same, and from an Eldar POV, there are no differences between one PA-wearing giant and another. I haven't seen any Fluff that says they all fight identically with the same equipment and OOB every single time.

If you've got actual GW Fluff that states that all Harlequins are completely identical, etc, etc, please share the reference.

Seriously. At one point Harlequins could have looted Land Raiders.

And Space Marines at one point could have Shuriken Catapults.

What's your point?

Kanluwen wrote:And Space Marines at one point could have Shuriken Catapults.

What's your point?

And let's not forget skyboards as well.....

And IG had units of jetbikes

My point is that GW changes fluff at will and there's no reason to think that they won't again - consequently, if they want some Harlequins to hang out more with Dark Eldar, that's their business (literally). If they want to make it so other Eldar mainly hang with regular Eldar, that's their choice, too. Arguing over what's canon in GW is liking climbing a mountain of pudding - it may be tasty to do, but you won't make much progress.

And Beastmen!

Ahh, for the return of Beastmen Regiments!

(If GW had rules for them, I would field them)

That fluff has been expunged from imperial records

H.B.M.C. wrote:And here I was thinking that we hadn't seen Ozy in a while.

Ahhhh, did you miss me HBMC?

I've been around, just haven't felt like posting much lately.

The incubus alone will be my reason for wanting to play them, I love the models for them, and on top of that, they seem like a pretty cool unit, most likely very expensive for a unit with such a really high damage output
(assuming 10 total per unit, that 21 total attacks, 10.5 hits, 5.25 wounds with 1.71 6's, giving 11 more attack, resulting in 5.5 more hits and 2.75 more wounds. All power weapon. If they have a higher I value than space marines (the unit these numbers are against, and I wouldn't know their I as I haven't looked that closely at a dark elder codex). So that's roughly 8 wounds, no armor saves. nasty, numbers go up if they get some kind of preferred enemy.

I know it's only rumor, but that sounds like a fun unit! granted, will cost quite a bit I'd imagine (both monetary and points wise).


It's no different than my current play style, orks, but what I can I say, I love fighty stuff!

greenbay924 wrote:The incubus alone will be my reason for wanting to play them, I love the models for them, and on top of that, they seem like a pretty cool unit, most likely very expensive for a unit with such a really high damage output
(assuming 10 total per unit, that 21 total attacks, 10.5 hits, 5.25 wounds with 1.71 6's, giving 11 more attack, resulting in 5.5 more hits and 2.75 more wounds. All power weapon. If they have a higher I value than space marines (the unit these numbers are against, and I wouldn't know their I as I haven't looked that closely at a dark elder codex). So that's roughly 8 wounds, no armor saves. nasty, numbers go up if they get some kind of preferred enemy.

I know it's only rumor, but that sounds like a fun unit! granted, will cost quite a bit I'd imagine (both monetary and points wise).

I'm not convinced your numbers are right. For a start how does 1.71 6's give 11 more attacks? Shouldn't that be 2 attacks instead?

Secondly, you've ignored the unit champions special demiklave attacks.

Third, I think Incubi statlines currently have WS5 and I5, and the only change noted was the increased attacks (to make up for the loss of the tormentoer helm).

So versus marines: 23 attacks (using +2 attacks with demiklave), 15.33 hit, 7.67 wound, 2.55 additional attacks, 1.7 hits, 0.85 wounds. About 8 and a half kills in total.

Okay, okay, your end result was close enough, but still....


Currently Incubi are 25 points. I hope they go down a little each, but I reckon 250-300 points will be fair for a full squad after upgrades.

Edit - got math wrong :(
Edit 2- got English language wrong. Changed what I wrote to say what I meant

They were just rough numbers, I was half paying attention as I wrote the last one, meant to separate the champion's attacks from the rest of the unit's. Yeah, I was just lucky on the end result, but the fact remains, it can cause some serious damage to marines, dreadnoughts also. I was assuming W4 for all those attacks, if it's 5 that's even better. But I wouldn't be surprised if they cost around 25 points each.

Oct. 5th can't get here soon enough (to preorder) and november can't get here sooner after that! Good thing I have college to keep me busy till then...but pretty sure I know what my winter is going to look like.

[quote=LeggyThird, I don't think Incubi statlines currently have WS5 and I5, and the only change noted was the increased attacks (to make up for the loss of the tormentoer helm). (

You know, that last batch of rumors specifically marks the demiklaive as a power weapon, but not the Klaives. Incubi might not have power weapons anymore.

Skarboy wrote:The Venom was, from the old Gav Thorpe experimental rules, more or less a cheap Raider with a holo-field option and weak guns. Unless they give it some new tricks, it's not really worth getting excited over.

Well, in this codex, you were able to mount a Shadowseer in the Venom. Then veil of tears made it hard for the enemy to target the Venom. Something like, you can't see it (as you need to roll 2D6 times 2) and in the next turn its in your face.

Leggy wrote:

greenbay924 wrote:The incubus alone will be my reason for wanting to play them, I love the models for them, and on top of that, they seem like a pretty cool unit, most likely very expensive for a unit with such a really high damage output
(assuming 10 total per unit, that 21 total attacks, 10.5 hits, 5.25 wounds with 1.71 6's, giving 11 more attack, resulting in 5.5 more hits and 2.75 more wounds. All power weapon. If they have a higher I value than space marines (the unit these numbers are against, and I wouldn't know their I as I haven't looked that closely at a dark elder codex). So that's roughly 8 wounds, no armor saves. nasty, numbers go up if they get some kind of preferred enemy.

I know it's only rumor, but that sounds like a fun unit! granted, will cost quite a bit I'd imagine (both monetary and points wise).

I'm not convinced your numbers are right. For a start how does 1.71 6's give 11 more attacks? Shouldn't that be 2 attacks instead?

Secondly, you've ignored the unit champions special demiklave attacks.

Third, I don't think Incubi statlines currently have WS5 and I5, and the only change noted was the increased attacks (to make up for the loss of the tormentoer helm).

So versus marines: 23 attacks (using +2 attacks with demiklave), 15.33 hit, 7.67 wound, 2.55 additional attacks, 1.7 hits, 0.85 wounds. About 8 and a half kills in total.

Okay, okay, your end result was close enough, but still....


Currently Incubi are 25 points. I hope they go down a little each, but I reckon 250-300 points will be fair for a full squad after upgrades.

Edit - got math wrong :(

The old Incubi statline says WS5 and I5. We haven been told that the basic warrior keep the same statline, that means that a basic warrior still has WS4 I5. I'm not able to imagine Incubi being the same or less than that. I'm pretty confident they will still be WS5 BS4 I5.