Dark Eldar Rules Discussion

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**Amaya**

36" assault is stupid to begin with, but 48" would be slowed. Lulz reserve everything, come on, assault.

**Pen≥Sword**

Amaya wrote:36" assault is stupid to begin with, but 48" would be slowed. Lulz reserve everything, come on, assault.

Well if it's anything like how I play Dark Eldar. Have fun reserving all your units. The next 3 turns are going to flllyyy by.

**zeekill**

Amaya wrote:36" assault is stupid to begin with, but 48" would be slowed. Lulz reserve everything, come on, assault.

Have fun with that. Meanwhile my wych raider squads are going to zip around and wait to charge 2 units into each 1 of yours when only half of your army comes out on second turn. Less for me to have to deal with in 1 turn...

**puma713**

zeekill wrote:
Amaya wrote:36" assault is stupid to begin with, but 48" would be slowed. Lulz reserve everything, come on, assault.

Have fun with that. Meanwhile my wych raider squads are going to zip around and wait to charge 2 units into each 1 of yours when only half of your army comes out on second turn. Less for me to have to deal with in 1 turn...

Here we go. People haven't even read an official codex yet and they're already playing theoryhammer.

**Purple Saturday**

Why do I keep reading that people thought the Solitaire may have been included with the Dark Eldar rules? Also, perhaps the Venom will give the Harlequins a dedicated transport that could be used in Eldar lists as well?

**Farmer**

any word on if i want my archon to have a agoniser can i still take the cube that doubles his strength?

**Rymafyr**

People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar

**Ozymandias**

I was about to list my Dark Eldar on ebay, but with these new rules (and models) I think I'll hold on to it for a bit longer. Will be a nice counterpoint to my IG, one sits back defensively and the other zooms forward in my opponents face!

**Gamble**

Rymafyr wrote:People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar until their codex is redone

**H.B.M.C.**

And here I was thinking that we hadn't seen Ozy in a while.

**Erasoketa**

Mr Mystery wrote:
Erasoketa wrote:
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:What happens against orksey hordes or omnom'nids though?

Then Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannons and Splinter Carbines happen. Poison, poison everywhere! Splinter Cannon was rumoured to have 2 shooting modes, to choose between Assault 3 or Heavy 6.

Or use your mobility to combine fire from a couple of squads, then send in the Wyches. You know, using tactics beyond 'kill it with fire'

I'm not talking about killing a full squad of 20 boyz in one shooting phase, but if Warrior squads have a good amount of firepower you might kill from 25% to 50% of them. That would make the job easier for CC units.

We are talking about the same, I think.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Saldiven wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:Well, the tokens will give some buffs but they will eventually not be game-winning.

I think it kind of depends. I've seen some posts on various boards that the token count isn't a per-unit count, but an army wide count. For example, if a unit with StP destroys an enemy unit, then the army gains a token; thereafter, every StP unit gains the benefit.

That sounds too powerful to me, but some posters seem to think that's the way it is...

Reading the rules as posted in OP:

Kroothawk wrote:
Strength through pain (mostly for Wych Cult units): After destroying non-vehicle unit, DE unit gets one pain token (1+ tokens means unit gets FNP, 2+ tokens means army gets Furious Charge, 3+ tokens means army gets fearless). Maximum is 3. Seems to buff all units with this rule simultaniously!

I think it would be like this:
- A unit with StP destroys a valid opponent unit, they get FNP.
- A second StP unit kills another unit, they also get FNP.
- First unit kills a second unit, all the army gets Furious charge.
- The second StP unit -wich has got Furious charge thanks to their fellows- destroys a second enemy unit, this has no effect in the army because they already have Furious charge.
- Any of both units kills a third enemy unit, then the whole army gets Fearless.

But of course, if we don't have the rules written as they appear in the codex, it's all guessing.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Farmer wrote:any word on if i want my archon to have a agoniser can i still take the cube that doubles his strength?

Usually Strength modifiers do not affect weapons that wound with a particular roll. I don't think Agonisers and that cube will compatible. It would be with weapons like punishers like this: Archon has S3+1=4, kills an IC, then he has S3x2+1=7. If Archon kills a second IC he gets S10.

**Jackmojo**

Gamble wrote:
Rymafyr wrote:People wished the Solitaire would be available and regarding the Venom, if it's available in the DE Codex, it won't be available for Eldar until their codex is redone

Or they decide to pimp sales by tossing out a White Dwarf article allowing it (as I rather expect Space Marines to get when the Storm Raven is released).

The new (or rather old) direction of rules for new models in White Dwarf changes the release paradigm a fair bit.

Jack

**Salacious Greed**

I think that the StP rule will end up being army wide, only because most armies aren't rolling out 10+ units in a 1500/1750 game to be massacred by the DE. I don't really believe that vehicles/dreads/etc will count towards this, as it wouldn't really satisfy the DE fluffwise to kill these things. The IG and Tau are the only armies to really field large numbers of small sized units. SM/CSM have small numbers of squads. So it just wouldn't make sense overall for the units to individually gain the StP bonuses.

**wuestenfux**

Skarboy wrote:I seriously doubt the DE will be able to disembark after 12+2d6 inches of movement, but maybe. Much more likely to me is something like the Grav Chute deploiyment where you can travel fast and deposit them along the way in a controlled "deep strike."

Well, then the Raider could go flat out, 24''.
The movement of 12+2D6 inches makes only sense when the Raider is able to shoot or when the transported unt can disembark (and charge).

**Scott-S6**

Janthkin wrote:
ThePhish wrote:I'm a little confused over the +2d6 in general. If the raider moves 6", the occupants can't fire from the raider anyway unless there's a new rule to allow it. The raiders could already move flatout up to 24" for being a fast skimmer so it kind of seems redundant unless they are going to allow you to do something else in addition to just moving the +2d6. What would make it worth spending the points?
No, if the raider moves faster than combat speed, occupants can't fire from the Raider. As orks have shown with their Red Paint Jobs, distance traveled doesn't always equate to vehicle speed. If the bonus movement doesn't force the Raider into the next speed bracket, it could be quite nasty (12" Cruising Speed + 2d6" + disembark + assault 6").

Hopefully they write it better than red paint which says that the vehicle isn't affected by the extra movement but doesn't say that passengers aren't.

**wuestenfux**

Stupid question: Who's the autor of the codex?
Cruddace or Kelly?

**Erasoketa**

wuestenfux wrote:Stupid question: Who's the autor of the codex?
Cruddace or Kelly?

According to the info from GD and from GW website, Phil Kelly wrote the rules and Jes Goodwin (don't know if working with Phil) wrote the fluff.

**wuestenfux**

Good to know.
I'd have voted for Gav Thorpe.
However, Kelly wrote the Eldar codex and so it should be at that level.

**H.B.M.C.**

Gav Thorpe doesn't write Codices for GW any more.

**wuestenfux**

H.B.M.C. wrote:Gav Thorpe doesn't write Codices for GW any more.

I know, that's too bad.

**Phototoxin**

Gav Thorpe doesn't do Codices, but if he did, they'd probably be the most broken codices in the world...

**wuestenfux**

Phototoxin wrote:Gav Thorpe doesn't do Codices, but if he did, they'd probably be the most broken codices in the world...

That's a guess.
JJ also did codices and especially the DA codex was one of the worst.

**Mr Mystery**

So much discussion over so little!

Why don't people wait until they have the Book in hand? Did you learn nothing from my bizarre prank-that-wasn't-really-a-prank?

**H.B.M.C.**

wuestenfux wrote:I know, that's too bad.

You sure about that? The last one he wrote was the 'Chaos' Codex.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr Mystery wrote:Did you learn nothing from my bizarre prank-that-wasn't-really-a-prank?

Only that when it turned out not to be a prank I tried to remind everyone how they treated you, yet you seemed to do nothing but thrive on wanting to be a troll, making my attempts at possibly repairing your reputation moot.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

A short history of this thread:

Sorry but forgot the member who had a thread locked due to insufficient info. We wanted thread as that info filtered out but was lost in the myriad "the models are ace I am so gonna get some" posts.

Kroothawk, started this thread by collating all the available info. Note that he did this in his own time and is going to the trouble of updating it.

We discuss and speculate, for it it a human thing to do.
It is fun.
A bit like people in the pub wondering who will win the Premiership this season.
It's what people do.

I hate to say this as it is such a platitude, but if you don't like rumours threads, don't go on the forum.

Please don't post negative inflamatory comments that will lead to a thread getting derailed and closed down and spoil other peoples' enjoyment.

Thankyou

**Mr Mystery**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:I know, that's too bad.

You sure about that? The last one he wrote was the 'Chaos' Codex.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr Mystery wrote:Did you learn nothing from my bizarre prank-that-wasn't-really-a-prank?

Only that when it turned out not to be a prank I tried to remind everyone how they treated you, yet you seemed to do nothing but thrive on wanting to be a troll, making my attempts at possibly repairing your reputation moot.

Thing is, I had odd, personal reasons for doing so. I know I pissed some people off when I called it a hoax, but did what had to be done, hence no need for people to apologise or feel bad. No biggy to me.

**Kilkrazy**

**Temporis**

I have eargly waited 11 years for a full update on the dark eldar,

It is only know that i realise that my most favourate, longest played army is now to be my. MOst dreaded.

Why? Because with this update my gameplay will change, their will be 9 year old bandwagoners, crazy removals of lovewd wargear, change of points and MOST OF ALL

People will know how to beat me as their will be other players of DE.

**Kroothawk**

Updated the first post with some info by Heresy Online moderator MadCowCrazy, as always this batch is coloured dark red.
The pics are the original entry art.

**aka_mythos**

I just wanted to reiterate Kroothawk in an attempt to bring this discussion back on track.
Kroothawk:

HQ
Archon, Wych Lord, Haemunculi

Troops
Warriors, Wyches

Elite
Incubi, Mandrakes, Harlequins, Grotesques, "Other Haemunculi Construct", Beastmaster,
Elite Warriors (Dracons, Syrabite), Elite Wyches (Hekatrix, Hekatrix Bloodbride, Syren)

Fast Attack
Hellions, Reaver Jetbike

Heavy Support
Ravager, Talos (light), Talos (standard), Scourges, razorwing,"Something completely new"

Transports
Raider, Venom

Does anyone else feel the Heavy Support and Elite sections are over filled in comparisson to the Fast Attack section? Given the current trend of really stacking in quantities of unit to choose from, it make sense that the volume is in the DE list, but the distribution seems a bit off. If this is a correct list, it would have been nice to see a unit or two bumped into the fast attack section. Who knows maybe the "lighter" Talos is such a unit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is the updated sections of text.

Kroothawk wrote:Warriors ...
Dracons have lost -1WS, -1BS, and -1I but gained +1A. Sybarite are same as before with +1LD. Trueborn are same as Sybarites. Kabarite warriors are just that, warriors.
Unit Type: Infantry
WARGEAR: Splinter Rifle, Kabalite Armour
Special Rules: Fleet, Night Vision and Power From Pain.
Fluff text says Trueborn escort their Archons to battle, so these guys can probably be HQ Retinues. Dracons are Trueborn veterans.

Wyches (also in an elite version, upgrade names: Hekatrix, Hekatrix Bloodbride, Syren)
Wych are same as before, Hekatrix and Bloodbrides are same as Wych Succubus with +1LD, Syrens are same as Hekatrix with +1A.
Unit Type: Infantry
Special Rules: Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain.
WARGEAR: Close combat weapon, combat drugs, plasma grenades, splinter pistol, wychsuit.
...

Incubi
...
WARGEAR: Incubus warsuit
Klaive: 2H weapon that gives +1S
Demiklaives: Power Weapons, +2A or +2S chose each round before making attacks
Bloodstone: Template, S3 AP3 Assault 1
Special Rules: Fleet, Night Vision and Power from Pain.
Special Rules: Klavex only
Onslaught: If a Klavex is in the unit, wound roll of 6 by Klavex or Incubus allows for bonus attacks, these cannot produce more attacks.
Murderious Assault: Klavex points at an IC and gains Preferred Enemy against that IC, can be done every assault phase[/color]

Reaver Jetbike
...
WARGEAR: Wychsuit, splinter pistol, close combat weapon, combat drugs.
Reaver Jetbike: +1T and 5+save, built in Splinter Rifle and 36" Turbo Boost
Bladevanes: Turbo Boost over any number of units, select one unengaged, nonvechile unit you have passed over. Each bike does D3 S4 AP- hits. Cover Saves allowed.
Cluster caltrops: Same as above but does D6 S6 AP- hits
Grav-Talon: Same as Bladevanes, D3 S4 AP-, if target suffers 1 or more unsaved wounds it must immediately take a pinning test.
Special Rules: Night Vision, Power from Pain, Skilled Riders