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The things with Gorgon was, while they hyper evolved to match the Tau technology,they were very exceptional because of this. The book actually makes mention of that - most hive fleets don't evolve that much that fast. They just crush through weight of bodies. Given Gorgon was a small hive fleet, it was probably evolving like that to make up for lack of numbers.

There's plenty of scope to defeat a hive fleet, but it mostly comes down to numbers. Behemoth was the smallest of the major hive fleets, and it took several regiments of Guard, a chapter of Space Marines and an entire segmentum worth of Imperial Navy. And it was only won through plot armour (hey, that battleships warp drive overloaded at just the right size to only engulf the Tyranid fleet). And they only defeated the main tendrils of Behemoth, the rest are still out there killing things (as shown by the fact that they were the hive fleet that took part in the Medusa Campaign).

A major hive fleet, even the size of Kraken, would have a lot of fun in the Tau Empire.

-Loki- wrote:

CpatTom wrote:No, they wouldn't. The reason they dont is because it is Deus Ex Machina vs Deus Ex Machina. The Nids "evolve" solutions to everything, and the Tau "invent" solutions to everything, so they would continue one upping each other forever.

And they do this because they want to sell models.

That's the overall bottom line it always comes to. The Tyranids have spores they could absolutely choke a planet with. Venomthropes? Yeah, the spores they release would, if released on a planet wide scale, kill every living thing on the planet. Every type of animal would have its organs liquefied and they'd drown in their own fluids, and the Tyranids would just need to drop down, plant their capillary towers, and use Hive Guard to fend off any lingering threats that were in bunkers or sealed vehicles. The idea that this race would need to deploy ground troops does not make sense.

Other races have technology to make ground assaults pretty redundant as well.

But they want to sell models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:It's pretty clear the Tyranids will wipe out all life in the galaxy. They've already done it to a different galaxy.

Surprisingly, I agree. They may have even wiped out multiple other galaxies.

The rulebook specifically states a dozen galaxies.

It does? Whereabouts?

Nope, the Nids would get cut down by superior tech. Pew pew pew.
Unless they started to evolve faster, but that would limit numbers because the increased speed of evolution increased the metabolism of Gorgon's fleet thus limiting the number Nids due to biomass constraints. It didn't evolve cause it was small, it was small because it evolved. The Tau didn't win through plot armor. They just won.

I wonder if the IoM would have responded so nimbly to a threat capable of making its weapons useless?

Unless the Nids have evolved to the point where they no longer have a metabolism. And which this argument is no longer necessary because the nids have defeated the law of conservation of energy.

Again, only if the Tau stick around to fight though.

The rest of the tendrils are out there so the Nid players don't get left out, haha, like the Tau...

Farseer Petriel wrote:Tau'll simply turn nids into the Greater Good...

I like it. Who has the stronger brainwashing, Genestealer Cults or the Greater Good?

"In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only politics."

CpatTom wrote:Nope, the Nids would get cut down by superior tech. Pew pew pew.
Unless they started to evolve faster, but that would limit numbers because the increased speed of evolution increased the metabolism of Gorgon's fleet thus limiting the number Nids due to biomass constraints. It didn't evolve cause it was small, it was small because it evolved. The Tau didn't win through plot armor. They just won.

Good tactics let them reak the synapse web on Sha'draig. Retreating, leaving behind a suicide force, and breaking the synapse web was good tactics. They still lost Sha'draig. By the time the tactic worked, ripper swarms had consumed the planet. They retreated and fell back because they couldn't keep up with the Tyranids evolution.

At Kel'shan, Gorgon was losing the space war until they devloped immunity to the Tau ion weaponry, which forced the Tau to retreat. The Tau also lost a few trading fleets. Before the Tyranids hit Kel'shan, an Imperial fleet arrived and attacked. When the Tyranids arrived, the Imperial and Tau forces both attacked Gorgon, and it couldn't keep up its evolutions against two foes.

The Tau didn't win by themselves. If the Imperial fleet hadn't been delayed in the warp by 150 years and arrived too late to help the Damocles crusade, Gorgon wouldn't have been stopped.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

Farseer Petriel wrote:Tau'll simply turn nids into the Greater Good...

I like it. Who has the stronger brainwashing, Genestealer Cults or the Greater Good?

"In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only politics."

Oh man.... Imagine the Possibilities.

Give a Flyrant the Vespid "translator" Helmet.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:It does? Whereabouts?

Err, the Tyranid fluff part in the Dark Milennium section?

"With the barren husks of a dozen galaxies behind them..."

-Loki- wrote:

CpatTom wrote:Nope, the Nids would get cut down by superior tech. Pew pew pew.
Unless they started to evolve faster, but that would limit numbers because the increased speed of evolution increased the metabolism of Gorgon's fleet thus limiting the number Nids due to biomass constraints. It didn't evolve cause it was small, it was small because it evolved. The Tau didn't win through plot armor. They just won.

Good tactics let them reak the synapse web on Sha'draig. Retreating, leaving behind a suicide force, and breaking the synapse web was good tactics. They still lost Sha'draig. By the time the tactic worked, ripper swarms had consumed the planet. They retreated and fell back because they couldn't keep up with the Tyranids evolution.

At Kel'shan, Gorgon was losing the space war until they devloped immunity to the Tau ion weaponry, which forced the Tau to retreat. The Tau also lost a few trading fleets. Before the Tyranids hit Kel'shan, an Imperial fleet arrived and attacked. When the Tyranids arrived, the Imperial and Tau forces both attacked Gorgon, and it couldn't keep up its evolutions against two foes.

The Tau didn't win by themselves. If the Imperial fleet hadn't been delayed in the warp by 150 years and arrived too late to help the Damocles crusade, Gorgon wouldn't have been stopped.

Yes! My trap is sprung, haha. So when the Tau were losing, what did they do? Retreated, and formulated a new strategy.

Hmmm. I wonder about a Genestealer Etheral though. Thoughts? I have no source material of which to base any speculation.

-Loki- wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:It does? Whereabouts?

Err, the Tyranid fluff part in the Dark Milennium section?

"With the barren husks of a dozen galaxies behind them..."

Well then, the milky way is screwed x12.

CpatTom wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

CpatTom wrote:Nope, the Nids would get cut down by superior tech. Pew pew pew.
Unless they started to evolve faster, but that would limit numbers because the increased speed of evolution increased the metabolism of Gorgon's fleet thus limiting the number Nids due to biomass constraints. It didn't evolve cause it was small, it was small because it evolved. The Tau didn't win through plot armor. They just won.

Good tactics let them reak the synapse web on Sha'draig. Retreating, leaving behind a suicide force, and breaking the synapse web was good tactics. They still lost Sha'draig. By the time the tactic worked, ripper swarms had consumed the planet. They retreated and fell back because they couldn't keep up with the Tyranids evolution.

At Kel'shan, Gorgon was losing the space war until they devloped immunity to the Tau ion weaponry, which forced the Tau to retreat. The Tau also lost a few trading fleets. Before the Tyranids hit Kel'shan, an Imperial fleet arrived and attacked. When the Tyranids arrived, the Imperial and Tau forces both attacked Gorgon, and it couldn't keep up its evolutions against two foes.

The Tau didn't win by themselves. If the Imperial fleet hadn't been delayed in the warp by 150 years and arrived too late to help the Damocles crusade, Gorgon wouldn't have been stopped.

Yes! My trap is sprung, haha. So when the Tau were losing, what did they do? Retreated, and formulated a new strategy.

And still lost. And then retreated again. And got saved by the Imperium, and only because the Tyranids couldn't evolve defenses against two enemies at once.

So they would retreat behind the IoM and wait it out. Oh, yes I do believe so. How right I am. I love being right, la di da da.

CpatTom wrote:So they would retreat behind the IoM and wait it out. Oh, yes I do believe so. How right I am. I love being right, la di da da.

Except, and this is the salient point, they have to go through the Imperium. And they'd be settling in the Imperiums borders. The Imperium is not a fan of this happening. They launch big crusades agains aliens that attempt this. It's a problem of having to run to survive, and the only place to run being to someone who wants to kill you.

The point that you proved? That the IoM would focus on the impending Nid invasion instead of the Tau. The Tau skip off away.

Not being a fan and letting it happen anyway is what a bureaucratic system is good at, and I can think of no better bureaucratic system than the IoM.

Sure, if you take the reason away for the Tau to be leaving in the first place then, yeah, the IoM shoots down the Tau on sight; considering there is a hive fleet, and the IoM is stretched to (beyond) the breaking point already, the Tau are gonna slip by.

The lil blue fish guy running by screaming is gonna be on your mind right up to the point that you notice the gross fatty who just finished closing up 12 all you can eat buffets coming your way.

The Imperium has more than enough hate for 2 wars at once.
The Tau trying to move through or settle in Imperium space would lead to no more Tau very, very quickly.

The Imperium are ALREADY fighting multiple Hive Fleets, and Eldar, and Orks, and Chaos, and Dark Eldar, and Necrons, and random uprisings and....you get te idea.
Adding Tau back onto the "and" list really wouldn't bother them too much.

The Imperium is currently having its hands full with the Chaos uprising of the 13th Black Crusade in Segmentum Obscurus, and Hive Fleet Leviathan is coming up from below threatening Ultima (already dealing with splinter hive fleets) , Solar (which is fighting to maintain Armageddon still nevermind chasing Ghazzie down), and I think Tempestus (which has also suffered from Tyranid assualts in recent years.) The Eldar don't seem to be offering as much threat lately, and the Orks are an omnipresent danger, so there's nothing really stopping the tau from gobbling up territory while the Imperium is occupied (which is basically what they have been doing.) The Imperium doesn't have enough forces on hand to swat them down - Taros wouldn't have happend (for example) had it not been lobbying by the AdMech, and even then it didn't turn out the way they wanted because of all the major issues the Imperium is already dealing with.

Edit: Also the Tau aren't going to be retreating much becaues they need and want territory. And to keep territory you have to fight for it, no amount of "preserving life" is going to change that (That's like saying having a whole housing block or apartment building burn down is a trivial issue for the people building there, because they can just build it all back! its not costly at all!)

The Imperium is overextended from a Military standpoint. If it wasnt, it could easily start to check off enemies. (I doubt its leaders would want to, but thats another discussion). The Imperium is the greatest force in the Galaxy, and if you put them one on one with any other faction, they win. However, the Imperium can do that because they have to many wars to fight.

I never said the Tau moving was trivial. You stay and try and fix a little flooding (Small fleet). You (Tau) get out of dodge (the Eastern Fringe) when a tidal wave (Enormous Nid Fleet) is coming.

CpatTom wrote:
I never said the Tau moving was trivial. You stay and try and fix a little flooding (Small fleet). You (Tau) get out of dodge (the Eastern Fringe) when a tidal wave (Enormous Nid Fleet) is coming.

"Hive Fleets don't leave worlds in their path."
Scout Sargent Cyrus, Blood Ravens Chapter, Aurelian Crusade 999.M41

Hey, if the BAs and Necrons can get married and move into a 3bed 2ba on the lower east side, there's room for the Tau.

They can invite the GKs over for some SoB blood on the weekends.

agnosto wrote:Hey, if the BAs and Necrons can get married and move into a 3bed 2ba on the lower east side, there's room for the Tau.

They can invite the GKs over for some SoB blood on the weekends.

Biggest fails in 40k fluff history...