Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Reading up on Behemoth and Leviathan, its obvious how much the Imperium has sacrificed to ward off the Tyranids, including killing billions of their own people to deny them resoruces. Given the Tau Empire's position on the Eastern Fringe, it seems a likely target from any future attacks. Despite its technology, the Tau lack the sheer defence in depth the Imperium has, not to mention their fleet mainly consisting of merchantmen with defensive weapons strapped on.

One thing I think they might out-grimdark the Imperium on is sacrificing worlds (thats if they're capable of Exterminatus). Despite their image, the Greater Good has an obvious malignancy and I can see where the High Lords balked at Kryptman's genocidal tactics against Leviathan, the Ethereals would be pushing it pretty quick.

Look in the Nyd codex their is a story where Tau killed a lot a nyds I'm not sure who won though.

Full force of a Hive Fleet? No, never, obliterated. They don't have enough worlds to make starving the 'Nids a viable tactic...They'd kill off their entire empire and the 'nids would just roll on into Imperial space.

Splinter Fleet? Yes, they can and have.

Could the Tau withstand anything? That's mean, but seriously, once something reaches them they are in trouble, and taking out a swarm army like the Tyranids before they hit home is no easy task, Carnifex anyone?

Likely the Tau like most beings that are facing annihilation , would get inventive, and seeing that the Tau tech advances very swiftly they would respond with a indirect response, maybe with the nissicars help they would develop a artificial becon to draw the hive fleets away from their most important systems.
And failing that perhaps a more sci-fi response using their bigest strength and self replicating nano-drones as a tech response to the bio-logical threat of tyranids, scorched earth tactics , but at any case I believe as long as Tau sales are good they have nothing to fear from tyranids.

If anybody can engineer a disease that could cripple the Nid swarms, I'd say the Tau and all its sciencey allies would have a good chance at it.

The only thing is, they would have to get Shas'vre Smi'Th And Fio'ui Gold'Blum to fly it into the hivemind though.

Full on fleet, Hell no. No one can (The Imperium blowing up their own planets = giving up IMO)

Splinter Fleet, Yea. IIRC, they have about 2-3 times. Once in the Tau codex( with No losses) and Once in the Tyranid Codex( With serious losses). Prolly one more.

Well the tau did fight one off. Grogon. It ate a research outpost and most of a sept world before it was stopped.

I don't think you will see the tau useing the starve them out technique. They would just meet them in force. Maybe fair better then the IG because there force is higly meconiced and can deal large amounts of damage with little to no biomass.

I also doubt they will make a nid killing plague. Bio tech seems to be a weak point in tau tech.

CpatTom wrote:If anybody can engineer a disease that could cripple the Nid swarms, I'd say the Tau and all its sciencey allies would have a good chance at it.

Actually, there's a reason that the Imperium doesn't use diseases or pathogens against Tyranids.

That reason is that they've done it before--and the Tyranids "adapted" to them, absorbed them, and reconfigured them for their own purposes.

Imagine the scenario.
You create an engineered pathogen that in tests on Tyrannic lifeforms has shown them to rapidly go into an adrenal shock and eventually burn them out. You then start issuing it to your field commanders, telling them it's a "last resort" and "only to use if it's absolutely necessary, and to kill every Tyrannic lifeform exposed to it just to be sure".

It takes one Tyrannic organism which develops an immunity, and then returns to the Brood Nests with this pathogen in its biomass when it goes into the Digestion Pools to be processed and then you not only have Tyranids immune to your supersecret doomsday weapon--but the Tyranids have reverse engineered it in such a way that by unleashing this pathogen it buffs their troops into an adrenaline frenzy, making even the Rippers immune to what should be crippling damage and it also affects your troops in the way you'd originally intended the Tyranids to be affected.

Personally, I like to think of Tyranids as being like the underrated "alien" invasion/comedy "Evolution" with David Duchovony.
You can try as hard as you might to destroy them, but they will adapt to it. You need to find a way to kill the base organism(in this case, the Hive Mind of the Tyranids) before you can mop up.

Kanluwen wrote:
Personally, I like to think of Tyranids as being like the underrated "alien" invasion/comedy "Evolution" with David Duchovony.
You can try as hard as you might to destroy them, but they will adapt to it. You need to find a way to kill the base organism(in this case, the Hive Mind of the Tyranids) before you can mop up.

Smith and Goldblum are the key to this plan (Will and Jeff). Come on, you've got it...

Seriously though, just engineer something that ramps up their metabolism to a level even higher than it already is. Nids cant travel fast enough. Starve the nids to death going from meal to meal. (Thats what led to defeating the splinter Gorgon fleet)

Depends on if the Tau have authorial fiat on their side in that particular engagement or not.

Hmm, guess it's again time for another Tau genocide fantasy thread by a dedicated tau hater, oh well...

Kroothawk wrote:Hmm, guess it's again time for another Tau genocide fantasy thread by a dedicated tau hater, oh well...

I don't see how question: Can Tau stand against Tyranid fleet? is much different from: Can Imperium withstand another Chaos Black Crusade?

On OP, Tau even if they have tech they don't have numbers against Nids. They barely survived Gorgon, and that was minor fleet in comparison to Behemoth, Kraken and Levithian. To put it this way:


Tau would run out of ammo loooooong before Nids run out of Biomass.

And + last Nid invasion in Tau spae actually adopted to pulse rifle fire. And because of that only railguns, rockets and Kroot rifles can harm them.

It's pretty clear the Tyranids will wipe out all life in the galaxy. They've already done it to a different galaxy.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:Full on fleet, Hell no. No one can (The Imperium blowing up their own planets = giving up IMO)

That was Kryptman, and that strategy is abandoned ( not even HLoT liked they way he destroyed 50 Imperial worlds and only slowing down Nids for a bit ). See Tarsis Ultra or Aurelia fir more recent anti-Tyranid strategies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:It's pretty clear the Tyranids will wipe out all life in the galaxy. They've already done it to a different galaxy.

That galaxy didn't have Humans in it

Kroothawk wrote:Hmm, guess it's again time for another Tau genocide fantasy thread by a dedicated tau hater, oh well...

Oh, boo hoo, move along then.

Given the tau aptitude at technology, it wouldn't surprise me if they started making remote drone controlled crisis suits or some purely technological defense.

Tyranids fight through a war of attrition that they excel at because every victory makes them stronger as they scavenge the biomass of their dead as well as the enemies dead. Loosing a battle is not such a tragic loss as long as they can scavenge the biomass of their dead.

However against an army like the Necrons, the tyranids loose definitively (fluff not tabletop). The reason being that any victory of the tyranids is still a significant expenditure of biomass for no biomass gained. The loss in biomass in a failed encounter would be staggering with the way gause flayers work.

Now the Tau wouldn't be quite that effective, but they have a very mecahnised army. They already employ things like attack drones and a crisis suit makes up for a units worth of combat potential with just a single Tau's worth of biomass. If they were to pull back their human resources and deploy mainly their mechanical resources they should be able to leverage an advantage for themselves. I also wouldn't underestimate the ability of the Air Caste in combating the Hive fleet in space. Their technology and super specialization of their cast system should give them a very effective navy. Potentially one that could destroy a hive mind in space. (I wouldn't count on it, but who knows.)

Brother Coa wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:It's pretty clear the Tyranids will wipe out all life in the galaxy. They've already done it to a different galaxy.

That galaxy didn't have Tau in it

Fixed...

The Tau would be more than able to hold off the Tyranids. The Tau Custodian class capitol ships can obliterate an Imperial fleet without backup. The Tau have four to unleash against invaders and they are building more.

Most Bioships would die to these vessels before they could release spores. The Tau response to landings would be a defensive line and a strategy I like to call "It's Rainin' Drones".

No, probably not. They're too small.

gabrielhorus wrote:The Tau would be more than able to hold off the Tyranids. The Tau Custodian class capitol ships can obliterate an Imperial fleet without backup. The Tau have four to unleash against invaders and they are building more.

Most Bioships would die to these vessels before they could release spores. The Tau response to landings would be a defensive line and a strategy I like to call "It's Rainin' Drones".

Wishful thinking. Or you're simply a troll. Custodians obliterating an entire Imperial Fleet? What kind of fleet was this, two escorts and a single bulk transport? Either way, what you've said is fictional.

Remember when the Imperial fought Behemoth? It required the entire Ultramarines fleet, their system ships, and a Segmentum Fleet, to take down one Hive Fleet, and they were only victorious because the Dominus Astra sacrificed itself to win the day, and even then the fleet was nearly obliterated. Good luck Tau is all can say. Actually, no, I would hope them to be obliterated by a Hive Fleet and expunged from the universe.

Tau'll simply turn nids into the Greater Good...

Brother Coa wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:It's pretty clear the Tyranids will wipe out all life in the galaxy. They've already done it to a different galaxy.

That galaxy didn't have Humans in it

But it did have Orks in it. (it's been pretty established that Orks are everywhere)

Plot armor would allow the Tau to survive the full force of a Hive Fleet, but they'd have to get creative. Like using handwavium to trigger a solar flare and then cause it to lase (shamelessly stolen from Ringworld), or busting out some experimental truely warp capable ship and rigging it to blow (plus side, it destroys the 'Nids, down side, it creates a cute little mini-Eye of Terror right in Tau space).

Basically something where the Godzilla Threshold leads to either the Dangerous Forbidden Technique or Crossing the Streams tropes. TV Tropes rocks.

gabrielhorus wrote:The Tau would be more than able to hold off the Tyranids. The Tau Custodian class capitol ships can obliterate an Imperial fleet without backup.

No, they really can't. They are approximately on par or slightly less powerful than an Imperial battleship.

I actually have 2 Custodians in my Tau BFG fleet, and I can assure you the only order I would give if one faced an Imperial Fleet would be "disengage and GTFO of here!".

iproxtaco wrote:

gabrielhorus wrote:The Tau would be more than able to hold off the Tyranids. The Tau Custodian class capitol ships can obliterate an Imperial fleet without backup. The Tau have four to unleash against invaders and they are building more.

Most Bioships would die to these vessels before they could release spores. The Tau response to landings would be a defensive line and a strategy I like to call "It's Rainin' Drones".

Wishful thinking. Or you're simply a troll. Custodians obliterating an entire Imperial Fleet? What kind of fleet was this, two escorts and a single bulk transport? Either way, what you've said is fictional.

Remember when the Imperial fought Behemoth? It required the entire Ultramarines fleet, their system ships, and a Segmentum Fleet, to take down one Hive Fleet, and they were only victorious because the Dominus Astra sacrificed itself to win the day, and even then the fleet was nearly obliterated. Good luck Tau is all can say. Actually, no, I would hope them to be obliterated by a Hive Fleet and expunged from the universe.

The Imperial navy sacrificed a massive number of ships to take down one Custodian, solo. This would be over the size of a standard battlefleet as this was a full crusade.
Also, Imperial fleets have a bad habit obeying the order "engage the enemy more closely". Valid in the case of the Space Marines and their boarding parties, but it brings them into range of the Tyranid melee ships. The Tau would stay back and take advantage of their superior weaponry.

Farseer Petriel wrote:Tau'll simply turn nids into the Greater Good...

A Tau/Nid alliance? The next GW bromance in the making; something to rival the eternal love between Necrons and Blood Angels. Railgun toting carnifex...venom canon toting crisis suits.

No organized entity can withstand a full-on Hive Fleet except for the Imperium, and that's only because of its sheer size, resources, and depth. If the Imperium loses 5,000 worlds they can still function as a governmeny, the same can not be said for the Tau. And even for the Imperium they ended up abandoning whole swaths of worlds and the Tyrannic Wars have probably been the largest/most costly for the Imperium since the Horus Heresy. It certainly has consumed a huge amount of their military resources, I don't know how many times I've read "x was moved to the Eastern Fringes to fight the Tyranids" in various GW/BL/FW books.

Meanwhile the Eldar would have been toast had Kraken hit Iyanden full force, instead it had split and the other tendril hit Ichar IV. Dark Eldar are safe in the Webway, Orks have endless numbers, Chaos are too dispersed and have the advantage of the Eye of Terror, Necrons aren't organic. But the Tau are too small in the end and lack any kind of natural safety barrier, though I'm sure they'd put up a great fight.

gabrielhorus wrote:The Imperial navy sacrificed a massive number of ships to take down one Custodian, solo. This would be over the size of a standard battlefleet as this was a full crusade.

What is the source on this?

I know a Custodian (the A'Rho) was killed by a very small Imperial Fleet at Taros, killing only a cruiser and 3 Firestorm Frigates down before dying.
And the Firestar was wrecked facing Hivefleet Gorgon, so clearly not a major problem for the nids.

Kanluwen wrote:

CpatTom wrote:If anybody can engineer a disease that could cripple the Nid swarms, I'd say the Tau and all its sciencey allies would have a good chance at it.

Actually, there's a reason that the Imperium doesn't use diseases or pathogens against Tyranids.

That reason is that they've done it before--and the Tyranids "adapted" to them, absorbed them, and reconfigured them for their own purposes.

Imagine the scenario.
You create an engineered pathogen that in tests on Tyrannic lifeforms has shown them to rapidly go into an adrenal shock and eventually burn them out. You then start issuing it to your field commanders, telling them it's a "last resort" and "only to use if it's absolutely necessary, and to kill every Tyrannic lifeform exposed to it just to be sure".

It takes one Tyrannic organism which develops an immunity, and then returns to the Brood Nests with this pathogen in its biomass when it goes into the Digestion Pools to be processed and then you not only have Tyranids immune to your supersecret doomsday weapon--but the Tyranids have reverse engineered it in such a way that by unleashing this pathogen it buffs their troops into an adrenaline frenzy, making even the Rippers immune to what should be crippling damage and it also affects your troops in the way you'd originally intended the Tyranids to be affected.

Personally, I like to think of Tyranids as being like the underrated "alien" invasion/comedy "Evolution" with David Duchovony.
You can try as hard as you might to destroy them, but they will adapt to it. You need to find a way to kill the base organism(in this case, the Hive Mind of the Tyranids) before you can mop up.

Doesn't the IoM do exactly that? The polot of DOW2 involves making a poison to to kill a hive fleet. They also have a poisoned bolter that sets nids on fire.

Tau and IoM fight the nids in different ways. The IoM uses a large amount of human forces and tries to grind it's way through an enemy. Fighting nids, it's probably a net loss for the IoM, so that's why they use all kinds of tricks to kill a hive fleet. (destroying worlds, poisons ext) The tau are different, there force is very mechanized and they don't in fight the whole horde. They focus on taking out the command structure. (anyone else think it's strange how nids have comanders?)

nomotog wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

CpatTom wrote:If anybody can engineer a disease that could cripple the Nid swarms, I'd say the Tau and all its sciencey allies would have a good chance at it.

Actually, there's a reason that the Imperium doesn't use diseases or pathogens against Tyranids.

That reason is that they've done it before--and the Tyranids "adapted" to them, absorbed them, and reconfigured them for their own purposes.

Imagine the scenario.
You create an engineered pathogen that in tests on Tyrannic lifeforms has shown them to rapidly go into an adrenal shock and eventually burn them out. You then start issuing it to your field commanders, telling them it's a "last resort" and "only to use if it's absolutely necessary, and to kill every Tyrannic lifeform exposed to it just to be sure".

It takes one Tyrannic organism which develops an immunity, and then returns to the Brood Nests with this pathogen in its biomass when it goes into the Digestion Pools to be processed and then you not only have Tyranids immune to your supersecret doomsday weapon--but the Tyranids have reverse engineered it in such a way that by unleashing this pathogen it buffs their troops into an adrenaline frenzy, making even the Rippers immune to what should be crippling damage and it also affects your troops in the way you'd originally intended the Tyranids to be affected.

Personally, I like to think of Tyranids as being like the underrated "alien" invasion/comedy "Evolution" with David Duchovony.
You can try as hard as you might to destroy them, but they will adapt to it. You need to find a way to kill the base organism(in this case, the Hive Mind of the Tyranids) before you can mop up.

Doesn't the IoM do exactly that? The polot of DOW2 involves making a poison to to kill a hive fleet.

Yes and no.
Remember how the poison was introduced into the Tyranid biomass directly via the reclamation pools?

The goal was to weaken the Hive Ships enough that any reinforcements could break up the remnants. It's apparently a common enough Deathwatch tactic, which is presumably where Cyrus learned it.

They also have a poisoned bolter that sets nids on fire.

"Hellfire Rounds have devastating results on organic matter, as the rounds are developed to combat Tyranids. The core and tip are replaced with a vial of mutagenic acid with thousands of needles that fire into target upon the shattering of the vial, pumping the acid into the target. "
The fact that they used acid rather than a viral or bacterial agent is what makes the Hellfire Rounds effective.

Tau and IoM fight the nids in different ways. The IoM uses a large amount of human forces and tries to grind it's way through an enemy. Fighting nids, it's probably a net loss for the IoM, so that's why they use all kinds of tricks to kill a hive fleet. (destroying worlds, poisons ext) The tau are different, there force is very mechanized and they don't in fight the whole horde. They focus on taking out the command structure. (anyone else think it's strange how nids have comanders?)

I don't think it's fair to say that the IoM exclusively uses "drag 'em down" tactics.

There's a reason the Deathwatch have Kill-Teams, Nomotog. Many Deathwatch Kill-Teams end up tracking and killing Tyranid command beasts over their service.

Edit was to remove a comment that might have seemed a bit confrontational/condescending.