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LunaHound wrote:

I am me,......

You had me at "I am me".

I think MATTRYM has been unfairly railed against for being objective, I have put this up in a previous thread, so can everyone drop the partisan polar, "you are an idiot because it's called failcast for a reason" type responses.

LunaHound, I applaud your use of side by side pictures, but 2-D image can never give a good enough representation of the miniature without looking at them "In the flesh". I can see some points, others are inconsequential like the Concave inside Fist of the Stormbolter.

Deathshead420 wrote:They need to do the right thing and do a freakin recall.

Finally some one said it. If GW doesn't itself see improvements then we may just see that happen. Or they do an about turn and change the whole process. This has been really poorly done but well handled.
As all polically minded people GW knows how to tip toe around the problem. That is impressive but not what we want to see, we want to see action to rectify finecast.

mwnciboo wrote:hmmmm .....in regards to Swordwind99 someone's length of time on the Forum doesn't invalidate their opinion. I actually agree in many respects wtih Swordwind99 arguments, dissenters normally congregate and mutually back slap working themselves into a zealous fervour. They draw in the easily lead, (sheep) not unlike certain fundamentalist terrorist groups.

So people who disagree with what GW does are terrorists now?

I assume that no e-mail or letter has actually surfaced. This is not surprising, as such a document could be incredibly damaging. From my understanding it could be used to prosecute GW for fraud.

It is my belief that GW is indeed acting fraudulently in regard to selling Finecast. They know that an unacceptably high percentage of Finecast minis are defective and yet still continue to sell them.

I have a question for the lawyers on the forum. Does GW offering a replacement or refund protect GW from a suit involving the sale of Finecast? I would think that it would not, as they are still trying to sell defective merchandise.

It is a shame that GW is having the issues they are and I understand folks and their personal feelings on this and getting fired up but let's not make the leap from Finecast to terrorism, please? I applaud GW for sticking with a product through some issues but I do believe they know the problem exists and will fix it shortly or go back to pewter.

Uktabi wrote:It is a shame that GW is having the issues they are and I understand folks and their personal feelings on this and getting fired up but let's not make the leap from Finecast to terrorism, please?

.... did someone actually do this?

Ouze wrote:

Uktabi wrote:It is a shame that GW is having the issues they are and I understand folks and their personal feelings on this and getting fired up but let's not make the leap from Finecast to terrorism, please?

.... did someone actually do this?

Mwnciboo called people who disagree with GW terrorists.

Tresson wrote:

Ouze wrote:

Uktabi wrote:It is a shame that GW is having the issues they are and I understand folks and their personal feelings on this and getting fired up but let's not make the leap from Finecast to terrorism, please?

.... did someone actually do this?

Mwnciboo called people who disagree with GW terrorists.

No, actually he did not. You took his statement and twisted it.

mwnciboo wrote:hmmmm .....in regards to Swordwind99 someone's length of time on the Forum doesn't invalidate their opinion. I actually agree in many respects wtih Swordwind99 arguments, dissenters normally congregate and mutually back slap working themselves into a zealous fervour. They draw in the easily lead, (sheep) not unlike certain fundamentalist terrorist groups.

His statement likened the dissenters to "certain fundamentalist terrorist groups".

YOU made the leap to "People who disagree with GW are terrorists".
Arguments and debates commonly use a technique called "comparisons". When you compare X and Y, it does not necessarily mean that X is equal to Y.

I would think that they'll have to pull their heads out of their collectives soon, they'll be paying a hell of a lot for resin(even if it is supposed to be cheaper) as they'll be buying a lot of it. Each time someone returns a faulty model that is a profit loss, add to that the packaging and casting replacements. It soon adds up.

Slipstream wrote:I would think that they'll have to pull their heads out of their collectives soon, they'll be paying a hell of a lot for resin(even if it is supposed to be cheaper) as they'll be buying a lot of it. Each time someone returns a faulty model that is a profit loss, add to that the packaging and casting replacements. It soon adds up.

You'd have thought so, but GW doesn't seem to have much of a grasp of what we like to call "the real world"...

SilverMK2 wrote:

Slipstream wrote:I would think that they'll have to pull their heads out of their collectives soon, they'll be paying a hell of a lot for resin(even if it is supposed to be cheaper) as they'll be buying a lot of it. Each time someone returns a faulty model that is a profit loss, add to that the packaging and casting replacements. It soon adds up.

You'd have thought so, but GW doesn't seem to have much of a grasp of what we like to call "the real world"...

To be fair...

In much of the "real world", with people who say they're boycotting GW, GW just sold a metric buttload of Tervigon/Tyrannofex and Hive Tyrant kits.

Kanluwen wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:

Slipstream wrote:I would think that they'll have to pull their heads out of their collectives soon, they'll be paying a hell of a lot for resin(even if it is supposed to be cheaper) as they'll be buying a lot of it. Each time someone returns a faulty model that is a profit loss, add to that the packaging and casting replacements. It soon adds up.

You'd have thought so, but GW doesn't seem to have much of a grasp of what we like to call "the real world"...

To be fair...

In much of the "real world", with people who say they're boycotting GW, GW just sold a metric buttload of Tervigon/Tyrannofex and Hive Tyrant kits.

Citation on this please and if so to what customer base are you referring too? GW is going to sell to the hardcore regardless. Do you have the numbers of actual sells that you have stated and of so please share. Very curious on this.

Kanluwen wrote:In much of the "real world", with people who say they're boycotting GW, GW just sold a metric buttload of Tervigon/Tyrannofex and Hive Tyrant kits.

Sure - they may sell some kits (after all they are one of the world's largest/most visible tabletop game manufacturers) but it doesn't mean they can completely ignore QC/etc, etc... I'm looking forward to seeing their next financial statement to see if/just how down their sales are on last year.

I don't know about you, but I'd be ashamed if some of the stuff people have posted pictures of was leaving my factory at all, let alone in quantities of anything approaching what we have seen. Hell, I would be kicking ass and taking names to ensure that my production processes were not churning out such huge quantities of substantially below standard product (and I think that we can all agree that if you are marketing your stuff as "the best product since women were invented" you should actually be producing some pretty damn high quality stuff) and until the process was fixed, I'd have every spare man on the pumps ensuring that every single sprue that was coming off the end of the line was checked and anything unacceptable was pulled.

Kanluwen wrote:In much of the "real world", with people who say they're boycotting GW, GW just sold a metric buttload of Tervigon/Tyrannofex and Hive Tyrant kits.

And not a single one of those kits was Finecast.

Adam LongWalker wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:

Slipstream wrote:I would think that they'll have to pull their heads out of their collectives soon, they'll be paying a hell of a lot for resin(even if it is supposed to be cheaper) as they'll be buying a lot of it. Each time someone returns a faulty model that is a profit loss, add to that the packaging and casting replacements. It soon adds up.

You'd have thought so, but GW doesn't seem to have much of a grasp of what we like to call "the real world"...

To be fair...

In much of the "real world", with people who say they're boycotting GW, GW just sold a metric buttload of Tervigon/Tyrannofex and Hive Tyrant kits.

Citation on this please and if so to what customer base are you referring too? GW is going to sell to the hardcore regardless. Do you have the numbers of actual sells that you have stated and of so please share. Very curious on this.

Since when do we cite sources here on Dakka?

By the way, you pretty much made my point for me with "GW is going to sell to the hardcore regardless".
The "hardcore" are the ones who also come online and loudly shout for all to hear that they are "boycotting GW!". Nobody else actually cares what they do or don't do.

SilverMk2 wrote:
Sure - they may sell some kits (after all they are one of the world's largest/most visible tabletop game manufacturers) but it doesn't mean they can completely ignore QC/etc, etc... I'm looking forward to seeing their next financial statement to see if/just how down their sales are on last year.

I don't know about you, but I'd be ashamed if some of the stuff people have posted pictures of was leaving my factory at all, let alone in quantities of anything approaching what we have seen. Hell, I would be kicking ass and taking names to ensure that my production processes were not churning out such huge quantities of substantially below standard product (and I think that we can all agree that if you are marketing your stuff as "the best product since women were invented" you should actually be producing some pretty damn high quality stuff) and until the process was fixed, I'd have every spare man on the pumps ensuring that every single sprue that was coming off the end of the line was checked and anything unacceptable was pulled.

No, you're absolutely right that this is unacceptable. But the fact is...people are still buying it.

GW's going to see it as a win either way. Never mind that there's no metal alternatives readily available at the moment, but still...logic isn't their strong suit.
By the way:
Cite a source on them marketing Finecast as "the best product since women were invented".

As an interesting aside I wonder if the hive tyrant kit sold well due to the extra goodies in it or because it was plastic as opposed to the previous finecast effort and people had put of buying it when it was finecast.

Kanluwen wrote:Cite a source on them marketing Finecast as "the best product since women were invented".

Satirical paraphrasing of the GW release statements.

For example:

GW Finecast pre-release article wrote:There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world, and we're proud and very excited for you all to see this for yourselves.

From here.

Emphasis mine - and it is probably because most other companies have some form of QC and robust production techniques

SilverMK2 wrote:

GW Finecast pre-release article wrote:There are no other miniatures that exist of this quality and manufactured on this scale in the world, and we're proud and very excited for you all to see this for yourselves.

To be fair this statement is correct.

There are no other miniatures produced so badly, in such a unique material and on a grand scale, like finecast is.. I'm sure 'proud' and 'excited' are typos for 'ashamed' and 'nervous'.

Most other companies aren't producing resin in this quantity, with or without QC.

But like I said...it's unacceptable either way.

Kanluwen wrote:Most other companies aren't producing resin in this quantity, with or without QC.

Really? I'm sure that there are quite a lot of resin aircraft/tank/boat/spaceship models out there, often with tens of or even hundreds of parts in each kit. They may not all come from the same manufacturer but there are certainly a few companies out there that turn out great numbers of these products each year without too much of a problem when it comes to their kits being flawed.

SilverMK2 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Most other companies aren't producing resin in this quantity, with or without QC.

Really? I'm sure that there are quite a lot of resin aircraft/tank/boat/spaceship models out there, often with tens of or even hundreds of parts in each kit. They may not all come from the same manufacturer but there are certainly a few companies out there that turn out great numbers of these products each year without too much of a problem when it comes to their kits being flawed.

I'm fairly certain that the kits which are being mass-produced to the scale of GW are not all resin. I know AFV Club Taiwan does really high-end, expensive tank/aircraft model kits but they do the majority of the kit in plastic. They include a small amount of parts for detailing in resin, usually specific to a particular kind of vehicle.

Kanluwen wrote:I'm fairly certain that the kits which are being mass-produced to the scale of GW are not all resin. I know AFV Club Taiwan does really high-end, expensive tank/aircraft model kits but they do the majority of the kit in plastic. They include a small amount of parts for detailing in resin, usually specific to a particular kind of vehicle.

I'm not going to argue as I don't have the facts and figures on kits, production numbers, sales, etc. But I'd say that being a "world leader" in production numbers for resin kits doesn't exactly reduce the onus on GW to stop releasing gak models, in fact I would suggest they should get themselves together and stop making excuses.

Ford is a world leader in car manufacturing, but if they release a car which arrived in the showrooms with holes through the bodywork and with half the internal parts misaligned and/or missing you sure as hell would not hear people going "Hey, you know what guys? They release a lot of cars so lets cut them some slack and maybe pay them some more money so we can buy replacement parts to fix the car we just bought from them!"...

SilverMK2 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I'm fairly certain that the kits which are being mass-produced to the scale of GW are not all resin. I know AFV Club Taiwan does really high-end, expensive tank/aircraft model kits but they do the majority of the kit in plastic. They include a small amount of parts for detailing in resin, usually specific to a particular kind of vehicle.

I'm not going to argue as I don't have the facts and figures on kits, production numbers, sales, etc. But I'd say that being a "world leader" in production numbers for resin kits doesn't exactly reduce the onus on GW to stop releasing gak models, in fact I would suggest they should get themselves together and stop making excuses.

The difference is that GW is--for all intents and purposes--"new" to the game for resin casting. They tried to bull their way through, and failed miserably at it.

Ford is a world leader in car manufacturing, but if they release a car which arrived in the showrooms with holes through the bodywork and with half the internal parts misaligned and/or missing you sure as hell would not hear people going "Hey, you know what guys? They release a lot of cars so lets cut them some slack and maybe pay them some more money so we can buy replacement parts to fix the car we just bought from them!"...

The difference is that when someone's car is produced improperly--someone can die or be severely injured. We're talking about toy soldiers, not something which can bankrupt a person if it works improperly.

Fallacious comparisons don't help the situation, Silver.

Kanluwen wrote:The difference is that when someone's car is produced improperly--someone can die or be severely injured. We're talking about toy soldiers, not something which can bankrupt a person if it works improperly.

Ok then, LG bring out a new TV which doesn't work half the time, can only get the "living" channel and has dead pixels taking up most of the screen. No one is going to die from a TV - happy now?

Whatever the product, in whatever the field, no company should be turning out product that either doesn't work, isn't up to standard, or doesn't perform as advertised.

Fallacious comparisons don't help the situation, Silver.

Nothing fallacious about it - GW are turning out gak and charging as if each one was hand sculpted by Leonardo Da Vinci out of gold and blessed by the pope. In any other industry, with any other product they would have been royally torn a new one if they had put out such a poor quality product. Hell, in any other industry they probably would have taken one look at the first production runs and taken it back to the drawing board until they had something that gave them an acceptable product because it possibly would have finished them as a business.

SilverMK2 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The difference is that when someone's car is produced improperly--someone can die or be severely injured. We're talking about toy soldiers, not something which can bankrupt a person if it works improperly.

Ok then, LG bring out a new TV which doesn't work half the time, can only get the "living" channel and has dead pixels taking up most of the screen. No one is going to die from a TV - happy now?

Yes, I am.

Whatever the product, in whatever the field, no company should be turning out product that either doesn't work, isn't up to standard, or doesn't perform as advertised.

No real argument with you on that.

Fallacious comparisons don't help the situation, Silver.

Nothing fallacious about it - GW are turning out gak and charging as if each one was hand sculpted by Leonardo Da Vinci out of gold and blessed by the pope. In any other industry, with any other product they would have been royally torn a new one if they had put out such a poor quality product. Hell, in any other industry they probably would have taken one look at the first production runs and taken it back to the drawing board until they had something that gave them an acceptable product because it possibly would have finished them as a business.

You overestimate "any other industry".

Companies have been--and will continue--to do this kind of garbage until they're called to answer for it or until it becomes financially untenable.

TheSovereign wrote:I picked up an Arjac Rockfist today. My GW store had three clampacks left. I looked as carefully as I could at each, and noticed some flaws (though not too bad) on 2/3. Bought the one I didn't see flaws on, took him out of the package, and he's truly flawless.

My only gripes are:
A) Heads on Finecast models that are pre-attached are noticeably smaller than plastic model heads.
B) Arjac's hammer broke off already.

At a cost of approximately 1/2 of a box of 5 plastic Terminators, Arjac should not only be a flawless cast, but he might just have to paint himself too...

Alpharius wrote:

TheSovereign wrote:I picked up an Arjac Rockfist today. My GW store had three clampacks left. I looked as carefully as I could at each, and noticed some flaws (though not too bad) on 2/3. Bought the one I didn't see flaws on, took him out of the package, and he's truly flawless.

My only gripes are:
A) Heads on Finecast models that are pre-attached are noticeably smaller than plastic model heads.
B) Arjac's hammer broke off already.

At a cost of approximately 1/2 of a box of 5 plastic Terminators, Arjac should not only be a flawless cast, but he might just have to paint himself too...

And come with an optional gold-plated version, mayhaps?

Surtur wrote:Luna, why didn't you point out any of the miscast problems on his legs or the gap where the axehead was placed? The finecast one has poor edges and textures on the legs and feet.

I did, I put "lol" on that because it doesnt need me to point that out :3

^^ awww you 2 so cute!

Kanluwen wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

TheSovereign wrote:I picked up an Arjac Rockfist today. My GW store had three clampacks left. I looked as carefully as I could at each, and noticed some flaws (though not too bad) on 2/3. Bought the one I didn't see flaws on, took him out of the package, and he's truly flawless.

My only gripes are:
A) Heads on Finecast models that are pre-attached are noticeably smaller than plastic model heads.
B) Arjac's hammer broke off already.

At a cost of approximately 1/2 of a box of 5 plastic Terminators, Arjac should not only be a flawless cast, but he might just have to paint himself too...

And come with an optional gold-plated version, mayhaps?

Still wish I had my GP Eldar Avatar =o[

oh ya OT umm, FC still sucks. I do hope this sinks the GW ship, lord knows they deserve it.

Since when do we cite sources here on Dakka?
Kanluwen wrote:

By the way, you pretty much made my point for me with "GW is going to sell to the hardcore regardless".
The "hardcore" are the ones who also come online and loudly shout for all to hear that they are "boycotting GW!". Nobody else actually cares what they do or don't do.

Seems like this is the ordinary thing to do when making comments that seemed to be unable to back up. Talk the big talk if you can but back it up with actual data. Many of us do make at least the attempt to providing data for discussion to back up what has been stated.

Something like a Url to a site or information or marketing data of some sort will help you in your comment.

If not then eh it seems that those people whom are against you are right. All talk. No facts.


Back to Finecast.
Finecast. It is something that I believe that GW is still trying to get their formula right. Until then it is going to be miscasts and GW will replace them.

Either way the company profits from it.