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Joey wrote:

mattyrm wrote:
Heres another good one.. "locking someone up costs far less than killing them!"

It does. The legal costs of appeals and incarceration while on death row is huge.
Capital punishment is only more cost efficient if you have a single trial, and then execution.

Obviously! That's the way forward then isnt it?

Give them 3 square meals a day for 65 years = money
Drag them outside and bludgeon them with a hammer = ten pounds for the hammer.

Plus, you can keep hitting them with the hammer until it snaps over a blokes swede, so, say you get 300 swings of a hammer.. well.. your talking pennies!

Its about £40k a year to keep someone in prison, but they can leave if it turns out they were wrongly convicted, can't really do that if you've killed them.

I dont see why it costs that much though, I mean, I dont think we should kill people, but why not keep criminals in say.. ten man dorm rooms?

And half their allowance of food. Say, only give them 2 meals a day instead of three.

You can make it so its not "cruel and unusual" and save loads of cash by taking more niceties, thereby appeasing the right wing "flog em" crowd, and the left wing "don't harm them ever" crowd!

Smart right? I mean, we should have to provide things like hot water, and bedding, but why must they get ice cream and television?

A lot of that cash is on admin and staffing, but prison is far too easy, the only real deterrent to people is the prospect of an overly affectionate cellmate. Marines are Navy aren't they? So would it still be Colchester as a prison? I can't imagine it would be that fun an experience to spend a few years there.

I actually wouldn't mind if we kept spending that much but instead of spending it on nice stuff for them, spend it on proven ways to rehabilitate and reduce reoffending rates. Because whatever is happening now is demonstrably not working.

Also we need to sort out the fact that 70% of the prison population has 2 or more mental disorders, and a good number of these people would be better off in a sectioned environment. Obviously not roaming the streets, but its not good for anyone just sticking them in prison.

Yeah I had a mate do 6 months in a proper prison and then a stretch in the glasshouse afterwards for an assault.

He said that the proper prison was a cake walk, and that the military prison was much harder. He said you werent allowed to sit when locked in your cell, and the guards march up and down the corridor constantly checking in the cell to make sure you are standing!

That just made me think "why do we treat rough and tumble lads who do minor gak and end up in the glasshouse, far far worse than full blown criminals?"

Do you think people like Ian Huntley are not allowed to sit down in their cells and are taken on forced PT at 0545 in the morning?

That seems probably a little too harsh, could even be construed as torture, which would mean they could appeal to the European Court of Human Rights under article 3. The suicide rate in prison is already 15 times higher than the rest of society and that might just go up a little if we make them stand for 23 hours a day.

The nations collective heart bleeds for suicidal criminals...

The Death penalty should be brought back, the amount of not guilty executions would be far outweighed by guilty executions.

There was a chap who gouged out his girlfriends eyes so she wouldn't see her kids again. What is the use of this man in society?

I do think the death penalty should extend beyond murder; Does it extend beyond murder in the States?

Medium of Death wrote:
I do think the death penalty should extend beyond murder; Does it extend beyond murder in the States?

The last hanging that I know of in the states for a crime other than murder was a serial rapist in 1965. I think.

mattyrm wrote:I dont see why it costs that much though, I mean, I dont think we should kill people, but why not keep criminals in say.. ten man dorm rooms?

And half their allowance of food. Say, only give them 2 meals a day instead of three.

You can make it so its not "cruel and unusual" and save loads of cash by taking more niceties, thereby appeasing the right wing "flog em" crowd, and the left wing "don't harm them ever" crowd!

Smart right? I mean, we should have to provide things like hot water, and bedding, but why must they get ice cream and television?

I believe that they tried inexpensive prisons once. Look how well that turned out:

It's a shame there's not a nearly uninhabited island off the coast of say South America where we could revive this notion...

AustonT wrote:
It's a shame there's not a nearly uninhabited island off the coast of say South America where we could revive this notion...

Hell, you could even kill off the natives in the process. Just like old times!

Medium of Death wrote:the amount of not guilty executions would be far outweighed by guilty executions.

So it would be ok for a member of your family to be killed on false charges as long as more guilty people were killed as well? How many more? 10? 100? 1000? How many criminals lives are the equivalent of a member of your families?

In this specific case, with the race aspect, there runs the risk of martyrising the perpetrators. Even with them being as abhorrent as they are, some idiot somewhere would end up feeling sorry for them.

Hazardous Harry wrote:

AustonT wrote:
It's a shame there's not a nearly uninhabited island off the coast of say South America where we could revive this notion...

Hell, you could even kill off the natives in the process. Just like old times!

Let's not ge too carried away this is the 21st Century! Evacuate them to London as refugees.

dæl wrote:Its about £40k a year to keep someone in prison, but they can leave if it turns out they were wrongly convicted, can't really do that if you've killed them.

This is the main reason that I don't favour the death penalty: I just don't trust human society enough to run such a policy without corruption and error, threatened/bribed witnesses and missing evidence etc.

Or just plain old bias and lack of information.

AustonT wrote:

mattyrm wrote:I dont see why it costs that much though, I mean, I dont think we should kill people, but why not keep criminals in say.. ten man dorm rooms?

And half their allowance of food. Say, only give them 2 meals a day instead of three.

You can make it so its not "cruel and unusual" and save loads of cash by taking more niceties, thereby appeasing the right wing "flog em" crowd, and the left wing "don't harm them ever" crowd!

Smart right? I mean, we should have to provide things like hot water, and bedding, but why must they get ice cream and television?

I believe that they tried inexpensive prisons once. Look how well that turned out:

It's a shame there's not a nearly uninhabited island off the coast of say South America where we could revive this notion...

We should definitely do that again, if we get more Aussies

RossDas wrote:
This is the main reason that I don't favour the death penalty: I just don't trust human society enough to run such a policy without corruption and error, threatened/bribed witnesses and missing evidence etc.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/15/carlos-texas-innocent-man-death

Takeaway brothel boss Azad Miah jailed for 15 years

The jury also heard that the Bangladeshi national had targeted "desperate and vulnerable" victims and treated them in a "cold and clinical way".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-18068516

He should be kept at her majesty's pleasure, but still, I can't imagine the prison population will be that nice to him, they don't like nonces at the best of times.

loki old fart wrote:Takeaway brothel boss Azad Miah jailed for 15 years

The jury also heard that the Bangladeshi national had targeted "desperate and vulnerable" victims and treated them in a "cold and clinical way".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-18068516

Cool!

Now make sure that he serves that sentence in the general prison population. Most "honest" criminals really love paedophiles and child molesters!

PhantomViper wrote:

loki old fart wrote:Takeaway brothel boss Azad Miah jailed for 15 years

The jury also heard that the Bangladeshi national had targeted "desperate and vulnerable" victims and treated them in a "cold and clinical way".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-18068516

Cool!

Now make sure that he serves that sentence in the general prison population. Most "honest" criminals really love paedophiles and child molesters!

That makes Rochdale and Carlisle now, and the police there did nothing as well

dæl wrote:He should be kept at her majesty's pleasure, but still, I can't imagine the prison population will be that nice to him, they don't like nonces at the best of times.

Anyone in prison for hurting a woman gets a rough time. An Asian guy who raped a young white girl? Yeah his ass will be meat.
Would genuinely like to see him chained up and raped for days on end in a room, like he did to those wee girls. Fair's fair.

They could be kept separate from the other inmates, I think this was the case with the racist killers of Kriss Donald in Glasgow.

RossDas wrote:They could be kept separate from the other inmates, I think this was the case with the racist killers of Kriss Donald in Glasgow.

I don't think anyone wants to keep them separate from other inmates...

Joey wrote:

dæl wrote:He should be kept at her majesty's pleasure, but still, I can't imagine the prison population will be that nice to him, they don't like nonces at the best of times.

Anyone in prison for hurting a woman gets a rough time. An Asian guy who raped a young white girl? Yeah his ass will be meat.
Would genuinely like to see him chained up and raped for days on end in a room, like he did to those wee girls. Fair's fair.

It's like my old grandad used to say: 'two rapes makes a right'.

It's like MY old grandad used to say: 'two rapes makes a night'. But then, he was odd.

They can't keep him locked away from the prison population for 15 years (or 7 as is more likely), and once he's let loose he'll be passed around like a bag of werthers originals. It's not necessarily right, but probably more just than 7 years inside considering the fact those girls will have to live with what has happened to them forever.

Eleven more arrested

Two more men have been arrested in connection with an ongoing inquiry into grooming and child sexual exploitation in Rochdale.
The men, both 33, were detained on suspicion of sexual assault and rape.

Nine men, aged between 24 and 38, arrested on suspicion of sexual activity with a child from 2005 are on bail pending further inquiries.

Earlier this month, eight Pakistani men and an Afghan received received jail sentences of between four and 19 years from a judge who said they treated their white victims "as though they were worthless and beyond any respect".

Let's hope they catch everyone in the net.