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Or they could attack anyone that is not their own self-declared "race" as inferior.

Which is also racism.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:If these guys went to Japan for the next stage of their career, would they pick white women or Japanese women as their targets?

Neither. They wouldn't be allowed to emigrate no?

It's a hypothetical.

They will actually be spending a considerable length of time in prison, and they certainly wouldn't get a visa to Japan afterwards

My point is that if the men are racially motivated, they will attack white women preferentially, rather than the much more easily available Japanese women.

Or the other way. They are racially motivated to avoid Pakistani females.
Edit: ninja'ed by Melissia. Its like the comfort women situation. Do what you want to anyone but your own people.

Ninja'd you, fraz.

Melissia wrote:Ninja'd you, fraz.

I've been !

mattyrm wrote:

AustonT wrote:
Matty I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I would not have expected you to have such in depth knowledge of Islam.

Know your enemy and all that.. I tried to read the Qu'ran when I was in Afghanistan, and I got a highlighter out and scribbled over things that I thought were particularly offensive, I highlighted so bloody much I got bored and stopped about 1/3 of the way through.. I also realised you can do the exact same thing with the bible so I kinda lost interest.

I also read the hilarious "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam" and several critiques by people like Sam Harris. Its not that I am interested in Islam, I just don't like it when ignorant hippies try to tell me that "They are all dead nice really" even though the vast majority of people know nothing about Islam at all. At the end of the day you need to know what your talking about when your a "hater" because you get accused of being ignorant by literally every single person that disagrees with you.

I most definitely do know far more about Islam than 99% of my friends fething wives though.

To be fair I said I didn't expect it, but TBH I'm not surprised by it either. Have you ever seen or heard the bumper sticker, "everything I needed to know about Islam; I learned on 9/11"? That basically describes most folks knowledge whether they say it or not.

Either way, they're a bunch of misogynistic things who aren't actually human beings, they're more like living turds whose very existence insults the form of man.

Melissia wrote:Either way, they're a bunch of misogynistic things who aren't actually human beings, they're more like living turds whose very existence insults the form of man.

Don't hold back Mel; tell us how you really feel.

AustonT wrote:

Melissia wrote:Either way, they're a bunch of misogynistic things who aren't actually human beings, they're more like living turds whose very existence insults the form of man.

Don't hold back Mel; tell us how you really feel.

But jokes aside, I admit to overreacting. Gang-rapists are only a step below Hitler in my book, and it's not really even a whole step.

Melissia wrote:

AustonT wrote:

Melissia wrote:Either way, they're a bunch of misogynistic things who aren't actually human beings, they're more like living turds whose very existence insults the form of man.

Don't hold back Mel; tell us how you really feel.

Spoiler:

As I stand over their bloody, lacerated bodies, riddled with bullet holes, I will dump gasoline on them and toss the match. Then while they burn, I will dump salt on them to put the fire out. And then set them on fire again, using a chemical burn instead of a physical one. Then as they are begging for their lives to end so that the suffering is no more, I will ignore them, and tell them that I am going to introduce their wives, fiancees, sisters, and daughters to the local gay club and convince them all to become lesbians. Then I will tie them up and come back a few days later when they are dead, and desecrate their bodies with satanic symbols and dildos. After having a sacrilegious burial involving the corpses of pigs, male prostitutes carrying the coffin, and a gay orgy, their coffins (made of balsa wood which has been painted pink) will be covered in dirt that is mixed with the pig offal. And then later that night, I will return to SHAT ON THEIR GRAVES!

But jokes aside, I admit to overreacting. Gang-rapists are only a step below Hitler in my book, and it's not really even a whole step.

Works for me.

I don't really care if it's racist or not, the crime of racism pales into insignificance compared to the sheer evil of that they did. I know it happens all over the world, more often than I want to think about, but to think that a first world police force would fail to act for fear of looking racist rather than desire to protect kids...jesus. I can see how it happens though, believe me.

And the arguments given by the lawyers. Christ.

And don't get me STARTED on the BNP arsehole almost getting the dirtbags off because he can't keep his ignorant mouth shut.

Are we ignoring the race element then? Or are people not aware that a lot of men of South Asian origin regard young white girls literally as objects?

Joey wrote:Are we ignoring the race element then? Or are people not aware that a lot of men of South Asian origin regard young white girls literally as objects?

I'm not ignoring it at all, its the reason I bring it up.

Namely, one of them only got 4 years. If you could prove it was a hate crime (specifically targeted girls of a certain race) then they would be getting twice the sentence, but people seem to want to ignore this fact because it makes them feel better.

Because we live in a multi-cultural society, but if people became aware of that, it'd fall apart. It's pretty barmy really.
A few hundred years ago the idea of "nation states" started in Western Europe, the idea that people of the same culture should have a country of their own, and throughout the world we see instability caused by different groups living side by side. That's why the Russians booted the Germans settlers out of Eastern Europe when they invaded - it might have been harsh to kick people out of their homes, but at least then you had Hungarians living in Hungary, Czechs living in Czech Republic, etc, to put an end to "Well there are Germans living over there so that land belongs to us!"
Well in the 21st century we've decided we don't need to bother. We don't expect people to uphold the same standards as us (i.e. imprisoning and raping teeange girls = wrong), let alone learn the language.
And obviously anyone who's bothered by the fact that there is an entire foreign culture living in an English city is a racist.

Foreign cultures integrating poorly is nothing new. The doctorine of them being immune to criticism is.

I mean, I can see your point, but I think you're blurring the line somewhat. These guys committed this crime at least partially because that sort of thing is more acceptable in their culture. So in that sense, it's racially motivated. However, they picked on white girls because the girls in question were vulnerable- probably not well supervised at home, maybe suffering emotional issues and delusions of independence (very common among a certain segment of british youth). The asian girls they could have preyed on (tend to) be much more protected, much more controlled at home, and so (generally) they are not easy targets. That, and the community they are from would probably look upon the same crime committed on an asian girl as being much more serious, and it would probably result in some form of retaliation.


I totally agree that 4 years is not long enough, especially given that a suspended sentence is practically a given these days.

Frazzled wrote:

Melissia wrote:

AustonT wrote:

Melissia wrote:Either way, they're a bunch of misogynistic things who aren't actually human beings, they're more like living turds whose very existence insults the form of man.

Don't hold back Mel; tell us how you really feel.

Spoiler:

As I stand over their bloody, lacerated bodies, riddled with bullet holes, I will dump gasoline on them and toss the match. Then while they burn, I will dump salt on them to put the fire out. And then set them on fire again, using a chemical burn instead of a physical one. Then as they are begging for their lives to end so that the suffering is no more, I will ignore them, and tell them that I am going to introduce their wives, fiancees, sisters, and daughters to the local gay club and convince them all to become lesbians. Then I will tie them up and come back a few days later when they are dead, and desecrate their bodies with satanic symbols and dildos. After having a sacrilegious burial involving the corpses of pigs, male prostitutes carrying the coffin, and a gay orgy, their coffins (made of balsa wood which has been painted pink) will be covered in dirt that is mixed with the pig offal. And then later that night, I will return to SHAT ON THEIR GRAVES!

But jokes aside, I admit to overreacting. Gang-rapists are only a step below Hitler in my book, and it's not really even a whole step.

Works for me.

Me too...

I suspect that the attitude of the police in this case is designed to minimise public response and prevent tensions rising; as long as they can play the "non-race card" then they will stick to that . Whenever I read about violent assaults on minorities by White perpetrators, the attack is generally presumed to be racially motivated, regardless of a lack of information. It's the polar opposite of how this case is being treated. Britain needs to grow up.

Also, since when were Whites considered the only ethnic group to consume drugs and alcohol, what would give anybody that impression?

Melissia wrote:

AustonT wrote:

Melissia wrote:Either way, they're a bunch of misogynistic things who aren't actually human beings, they're more like living turds whose very existence insults the form of man.

Don't hold back Mel; tell us how you really feel.

Spoiler:

As I stand over their bloody, lacerated bodies, riddled with bullet holes, I will dump gasoline on them and toss the match. Then while they burn, I will dump salt on them to put the fire out. And then set them on fire again, using a chemical burn instead of a physical one. Then as they are begging for their lives to end so that the suffering is no more, I will ignore them, and tell them that I am going to introduce their wives, fiancees, sisters, and daughters to the local gay club and convince them all to become lesbians. Then I will tie them up and come back a few days later when they are dead, and desecrate their bodies with satanic symbols and dildos. After having a sacrilegious burial involving the corpses of pigs, male prostitutes carrying the coffin, and a gay orgy, their coffins (made of balsa wood which has been painted pink) will be covered in dirt that is mixed with the pig offal. And then later that night, I will return to SHAT ON THEIR GRAVES!

But jokes aside, I admit to overreacting. Gang-rapists are only a step below Hitler in my book, and it's not really even a whole step.

I did not expect that...and I laughed my ass off. Thanks for that Mel.
I don't really think you are overreacting sex crimes are perhaps the most heinous of offenses. I generally rank them above murder.

Melissia wrote:But jokes aside, I admit to overreacting. Gang-rapists are only a step below Hitler in my book, and it's not really even a whole step.

Homoerotic rape, torture, mayhem, desecrating the dead, necrophilia, slavery, sexual enslavement, scat, and murder.

And I thought I'd seen it all in the OT.

Way to raise the bar!

Another update, a good 5 minutes of audio, where a mealy mouthed politician refuses to say exactly what some of the Asian men in his surgery have said.

Namely "They deserved it because they dress like sluts"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17993003

mattyrm wrote: Namely "They deserved it because they dress like sluts"

Oh goddamnit, I thought we had successfully managed to avoid another "blame the victim" argument.

Melissia wrote:

Amaya wrote:Racism
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
[...]

I don't see how it fits any of those criteria. Their actions are based on the belief that white women are more promiscuous and thus easier to manipulate than Arab women.

That's because you didn't actually read your own post.

It's a leap to say that because white women are more promiscuous than typically repressed Islamic women they are inferior.

Amaya wrote:It's a leap to say that because white women are more promiscuous

Actually that's the part where it is racist to begin with, without ever getting in to the argument about whether promiscuity is bad.

So facts are now racism? Okay then.

The belief (without any supporting evidence) that it is a fact to begin with certainly is.

While sleeping around may not be condoned in western society, it is certainly accepted and tolerated. Doing the same in Islamic society as a women will probably lead to ostracization and even death. It's not a stretch to concludes that the most populous ethnicities of a western culture will be more promiscuous.

Which might seem reasonable... until you realize that these men are basing their actions on prejudices (IE, "white girls are sluts") as opposed to facts.

Amaya wrote:

While sleeping around may not be condoned in western society, it is certainly accepted and tolerated. Doing the same in Islamic society as a women will probably lead to ostracization and even death. It's not a stretch to concludes that the most populous ethnicities of a western culture will be more promiscuous.

Thats prima facae evidence of a hate crime right there.

I still think it's simply a sex crime and that people are too quick to start throwing out accusations of racism.

Edit: Actually, I think the religious issue is much more important than the any alleged racial problem. Racism might be a symptom in this case, but it is not the cause.

I don't think there is enough information for me to make an informed decision on it.

This occured in Britain, so my first thought was yeah the police are being PC about it, but that just doesn't clear it.

What are the demographics of the region? Do they live in a predominatly pakistani area? Would it have been easier for them to grab girls of the local color? Or where they thinking that it would be harder to trace them if they grabbed victims from further afield?

I'd want to know a bit more information along those lines before I made a decision. I'd like to say that the police, who do have all that info, took it into consideration when they said that.

Pretty multicultural area, as it goes, but predominantly white.