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If you take a look at the GW website they class Daemon Princes as diffrent to Daemons. I would guess what they are saying is no Lord of Change or Greater Daemon of Nurgle leading a force of CSM, but you will get Daemon Princes.

I would say it is a miss understanding/miss comunication/not classing Daemon Princes as Daemons.

yeah,
Daemon Princes will stay in the new codex.
GW has too many DP models with iconic space marine armour to remove CSM variety Daemon Princes from the codex.

PAnic...

I'm not demanding special treatment for CSM (I don't even play them) just hoping for a common sense approach from GW (I know )

A few months ago, it was suggested that there should be a Chaos Legion codex for the original traitors, and a Codex for recently turned traitors like the Red Corsairs and other renegades.

IMO that would be a brilliant idea, as it would allow players and converters the chance to do the rich pantheon of Chaos fluff some justice.

Instead, we'll probably get the usual halfway house of GW cramming everything into one book, whilst on the other hand wasting time doing books for Black Templars and sisters. In all honesty, is there anything that makes the BT stand out from any other chapter? IMO they're just as bland as Ultramarines, and yet, they'll probably end up with their own codex.

In response to earlier comments, yes, not every CSM is a veteran, and their lack of modern equipment and their fragmented nature compared to the fighting methods of the Ultramarines for example, would count against them.
But a useful comparison is comparing CSM to space wolves. Space wolves don't follow Guilliman's textbook to the letter but Grey Hunters get some great abilities for the cost. Why not a veteran, 10,000 year old CSM? These guys have been fighting in the eye of terror, that experience should count for something IMO.

As a final note, there are, what, 6 or 7 books for the forces of the imperium, but only 2 for Chaos (deamons and CSM). Bumping that number up to 3 (Legion, CSM, Daemons) would adddress the balance a bit. After all, Chaos is supposed to be the number 1 threat to the imperium.

Rant over!

i am guessing they woudl move the Cult units to stop peopel fielding armies of nothgin but DPs, Plague marines and Oblits (which is the current tourney meta i believe?).

I agree with the idea that you need (for example) a Nurgle alligned HQ to field Plague Marines. Full on Plague marines/Berzerkers/Noise marines etc are supposed to be rare and..um....elite.

Chances are a Nurge dedicated army would have scores of troops that Worship nurgle, but only a select few would be raised to the level of full-on Plague Marines.

Praxiss wrote:i am guessing they woudl move the Cult units to stop peopel fielding armies of nothgin but DPs, Plague marines and Oblits (which is the current tourney meta i believe?).

I agree with the idea that you need (for example) a Nurgle alligned HQ to field Plague Marines. Full on Plague marines/Berzerkers/Noise marines etc are supposed to be rare and..um....elite.

Chances are a Nurge dedicated army would have scores of troops that Worship nurgle, but only a select few would be raised to the level of full-on Plague Marines.

Except that Cult armies have been present since 2nd edition sir.

While not all Plague Marines are Death Guard, all Death Guard are Plague Marines.

The special character approach could work.

But seriously, I'd hope to see either new SCs for that (Since Ahriman, Kharn and Typhus are all renegades and exiles of their own Legions so why on earth use them to make cult armies?!) or ideally a system of marks, perhaps similar to JustDave's fandex with Greater and Lesser Marks - and a HQ with a Greater Mark of Fluffy unlocks the Fluffy as troops where.

Heck, if the Terminator option is incorporated into the entry we could see Plaguewing or Berserkerwing armies. Oh my.

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/07/chaos-marine-dragon-sightings.html

Possible picture and information regarding the Chaos "Dragon Flyer" from Faeit 212.

ddsa86 wrote:http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xxQNp-nG-2U/UAYY34O4tQI/AAAAAAAAGxQ/gxauq5DwTqU/s400/corporation_by_theumbrella.jpg

Possible picture and information regarding the Chaos "Dragon Flyer" from Faeit 212.

That better be fake. A literal mechanical dragon is a bit silly.

Now, an organic/mechanical hybrid does sound interesting.

Ugh... I can see I'm going to have to get my "counts as" juices flowing.

I think we might end up seeing heavily converted valkyries/stormravens instead of dragons, if they go the literal route.

plastictrees wrote:Personally I'm hoping they decide to broaden the scope of the random elements in a Chaos Marine army:
Before deployment roll a d6:
1: You must play the entire game blindfolded
2: Switch armies with your opponent
3: Mutter "Heretics say what?" if anyone says "What" they have to control your army for this game. You can go home.
4: Make a rash impulse buy at gamesworkshop.com
5: Every time anything at all happens you have to make an unrelated Simpsons or Family Guy reference. Laugh at your brilliant sense of humour.
6: Apply all of the above.
If your HQ has a specific mark also apply the following: Nurgle: Sneeze on your opponent at the start of every turn. Khorne: Never stop yelling.
Tzeentch: Expose yourself to dangerous levels of radiation. Slaanesh: Take your pants off.
Undvided: Make everyone in the store/tournament/basement hug for slightly too long.

That's some good work by you.

ddsa86 wrote:http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/07/chaos-marine-dragon-sightings.html

Possible picture and information regarding the Chaos "Dragon Flyer" from Faeit 212.

That is not "THE" picture, its just a picture the blog owner took from the interwebs to illustrate/highlight his post with information about the "dragon".

The information is that someone at the warehouse saw sprues they could not identify, that look bio-mechanical. That is it. No picture, no details or nothing.

whitedragon wrote:

ddsa86 wrote:http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/07/chaos-marine-dragon-sightings.html

Possible picture and information regarding the Chaos "Dragon Flyer" from Faeit 212.

That is not "THE" picture, its just a picture the blog owner took from the interwebs to illustrate/highlight his post with information about the "dragon".

The information is that someone at the warehouse saw sprues they could not identify, that look bio-mechanical. That is it. No picture, no details or nothing.

Oh good. Cause it looks horrible.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh good. Cause it looks horrible.

It also isn't in any recognizable GW art style. I'm curious to see the actual model.

I hope that's not the model, like others have said, it looks nothing like a GW model, I'd imagine a mix between Gaulrauch and an Imperial Aircraft of some form.

No Cult Termies would make me a sad panda.

blood reaper wrote:I hope that's not the model, like others have said, it looks nothing like a GW model, I'd imagine a mix between Gaulrauch and an Imperial Aircraft of some form.

It isn't.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:No Cult Termies would make me a sad panda.

Agreed, Nurgle and Khorne Terminators would have been great, Feel no Pain Termies? Furious Charge Terminators? I'd off forgiven GW for Finecast and the 4th Edition Codex for Cult Termies, the idea could make Chaos competitive, but lets just hope this isn't another 4th edition flop.

Brother SRM wrote:

blood reaper wrote:I hope that's not the model, like others have said, it looks nothing like a GW model, I'd imagine a mix between Gaulrauch and an Imperial Aircraft of some form.

It isn't.

Eh, it was just my idea, though I guess we won't know until someone gets their hands on the next copy of White Dwarf with or a leak.

blood reaper wrote:

Agreed, Nurgle and Khorne Terminators would have been great, Feel no Pain Termies? Furious Charge Terminators? I'd off forgiven GW for Finecast and the 4th Edition Codex for Cult Termies, the idea could make Chaos competitive, but lets just hope this isn't another 4th edition flop.

Aye, that would have been nice, but it is also for me a Story styled situation. Its rare that fluffy can mean 'good' in 40K, and if I make the call to limit myself to one of the Legions of the four powers, and paint everything up as such. It would be nice to have all the units under the same god buffed situation as the rest.

For example having Death Guard termies who are not as tough as their mark 6/7 brethren would annoy the heck out of me.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:

blood reaper wrote:

Agreed, Nurgle and Khorne Terminators would have been great, Feel no Pain Termies? Furious Charge Terminators? I'd off forgiven GW for Finecast and the 4th Edition Codex for Cult Termies, the idea could make Chaos competitive, but lets just hope this isn't another 4th edition flop.

Aye, that would have been nice, but it is also for me a Story styled situation. Its rare that fluffy can mean 'good' in 40K, and if I make the call to limit myself to one of the Legions of the four powers, and paint everything up as such. It would be nice to have all the units under the same god buffed situation as the rest.

For example having Death Guard termies who are not as tough as their mark 6/7 brethren would annoy the heck out of me.

It would, I play a Nurgle army, converted from my original and god awful Chaos Marine army, being able to only salvage around half of it, but still toughness five and a 2+ save is pretty good right now, especially in this edition of 40k.

Aye, I suppose at least Nurgle gets the toughness, FNP is a shame, but not the end of the world.

I think the loss of Fearless is the bigger kick though, especially after its change in 6th.

Well I have low hopes for another Eye of the Gods table. In WFB the EoTG table is basically useless because it only works if your character kills another character or Large Target. How many characters want to fight a chaos lord one on one? None. Just throw the unit champion at him.

In 40k 6th, why bother fighting the lord with your captain if you can just throw a sergeant at him? Unless sergeants are characters too now?

Noisy_Marine wrote:Well I have low hopes for another Eye of the Gods table. In WFB the EoTG table is basically useless because it only works if your character kills another character or Large Target. How many characters want to fight a chaos lord one on one? None. Just throw the unit champion at him.

In 40k 6th, why bother fighting the lord with your captain if you can just throw a sergeant at him? Unless sergeants are characters too now?

I think they are considered to be now.

Honestly the more I hear about this mechanical dragon the more it sounds like a daemon engine and other than a defiler CSM don't have access to daemon engines. Makes me nervous that it's really just a Daemon flier and what that means for the actual release date for the new codex

Hopefully it means my HellBlade will see use in normal 40k games!

It sounds like GW are trying to pawn people off with a Chaos flyer in the hope they'll ignore how bad the codex will probably be!

Noisy_Marine wrote:Well I have low hopes for another Eye of the Gods table. In WFB the EoTG table is basically useless because it only works if your character kills another character or Large Target. How many characters want to fight a chaos lord one on one? None. Just throw the unit champion at him.

In 40k 6th, why bother fighting the lord with your captain if you can just throw a sergeant at him? Unless sergeants are characters too now?

Unit champions are characters as well, iirc.
Unless it specifies independent characters?

And yeah, sergeants are characters.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:It sounds like GW are trying to pawn people off with a Chaos flyer in the hope they'll ignore how bad the codex will probably be!

Why do people make gakky posts like this? This adds absolutely nothing to the thread.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:It sounds like GW are trying to pawn people off with a Chaos flyer in the hope they'll ignore how bad the codex will probably be!

So you're saying a flier that people are hating on is to attracked and distract attention away from a codex people are already hating on, in order to distract us from hating on it when the actual codex comes out? I really don't follow your logic...also wouldn't people not want to buy a model if the codex it went with sucked? Your comment not only doesn't add anything it doesn't even make a lick of sense.

I make gakky posts like the above because I've been with GW since it's birth,and as a result I've seen the best and worst it has to offer. Heart says I will probably buy the new codex, head says the focus of the new codex will be shiny new fliers. It's a classic GW smokescreen - distract people with a couple of flashy models in the hope they'll ignore everything else that's bad.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Noisy_Marine wrote:Well I have low hopes for another Eye of the Gods table. In WFB the EoTG table is basically useless because it only works if your character kills another character or Large Target. How many characters want to fight a chaos lord one on one? None. Just throw the unit champion at him.

In 40k 6th, why bother fighting the lord with your captain if you can just throw a sergeant at him? Unless sergeants are characters too now?

Unit champions are characters as well, iirc.
Unless it specifies independent characters?

And yeah, sergeants are characters.

Unit champions act like characters but are not characters. They get the benefits of Look Out Sir and have to be picked up individually for attacks. Also, they can give and accept challenges. However they are not really characters and don't count for Eye of the Gods. Makes it a fairly useless rule.

If sarge is a character then at least we will get some use out of it. Although turning into a spawn on snake eyes sounds a lot worse then become stupid for the rest of the game. Especially when you consider how useless spawn have been in the last codex.