Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Man, I started playing CSM for their good troop choices. It will suck if I have to take an hq to 'unlock' these troop choices. I like being able to have plague marines to hold objectives, and khorne berzerkers to go kill the guys my opponent has trying to hold his objective. If I want to be able to do this, I'll have to take 2 hqs to unlock them, and then I'll never be able to field a daemon prince hq. The other option would be to have one of them (probably the berzerkers) not count as troops, but then I'd just be contesting the objective that I took from the enemy instead of holding it, which royally feths me.

This codex is their last chance. If it sucks, I'm going back to my 3.5 codex and only playing with friends.

If I want to play in a tourniment, I have four other armies I can choose from. The real clincher will be how allied deamons will work with it. If I have to follow their horrible summoning rules then it just wont be worth it as a cohesive functioning army list.

I have been pretty disappointed with GW ever since the nids dex came out (Robbin Cruddycrap sucks). That killed my interest big time. Since then i have been building up my chaos forces. I am with you Jayden63. Please dont suck GW. Lots of chaos players have waited ages for a good dex, this is your chance to shine.

sennacherib wrote: this is your chance to shine.

You idiot, you jinxed it!

I still have a 90% untouched chaos armored army box set thingy, and it could really use an actual use

To say I'm a fan of Chaos is an understatement, as not only have I been playing them since late-2nd, I have the Eye of Horus tattooed onto my neck as the Black Legion are my favourite army
The point is, the 3.5 dex was great! Not only was it competitive, but it allowed you to mix & match (provided the BL were represented) or go all-out fluff which was one of the best aspects of the book
Then the current one came out and I remember picking it up after it had been out for about a year as I took an hiatus from the game and after reading it, I was shocked at how far CSM had fallen, no pun intended
Some of the rumours sound great, others not so much, but all I really want (apart from competitiveness) is the ability to build fluff lists again and if I need to take a SC, I'll be annoyed as hell!
I won't rage quit, as I have other armies to use, but I have several thousand points of Chaos that need to come out of retirement and I am praying to god that GW will allow me to dust them off

Couple things:

It seems everyone is upset that there are not cult termies. I am too, but the Cult's are going to be elites. Shouldn't that mean they are getting buffed? In my mind it seems like the cults are gonna be vet's but better because they have the cult powers. Better special rules or weapons.
Even if they aren't, Arhiman followed by 9 full 1000 sons squads sounds damn bad ass to me.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:If these rumours are true, then this will be the most underwhelming thing I've ever seen since Jimmy Carter's inaugaration speech!!! (I was a young lad then)

The absence of cult terminators is one thing, but as usual, the CSM codex will be all the legions and gods crammed into one book, whilst the Imperium get their usual one hundred 'dexes of Black Templars( probably the most boring chapter out there) Blood Angels, Sisters, Wolves, Dark Angels etc etc.

And as usual, a 10,000 year old Chaos veteran will still be inferior to his loyalist counterpart who is barely out of nappies/diapers!!!

I'm really sick of this. I agree csm should be split like sm, but do you really want more codex's to get updated. Look how long it takes now. But no, you guys want to add more. Good luck with that when your sitting in the same position as the Tau and Sisters now, or DE and Necrons were. Super out of date and no one wants to use you.

kenzosan wrote:Couple things:
It seems everyone is upset that there are not cult termies. I am too, but the Cult's are going to be elites. Shouldn't that mean they are getting buffed? In my mind it seems like the cults are gonna be vet's but better because they have the cult powers. Better special rules or weapons.

Except they're going to be able to be made Troops depending on your HQ, so they can't make them much better than regular troops or else cult armies will be OP.

skarsol wrote:

kenzosan wrote:Couple things:
It seems everyone is upset that there are not cult termies. I am too, but the Cult's are going to be elites. Shouldn't that mean they are getting buffed? In my mind it seems like the cults are gonna be vet's but better because they have the cult powers. Better special rules or weapons.

Except they're going to be able to be made Troops depending on your HQ, so they can't make them much better than regular troops or else cult armies will be OP.

That and the fact Elite in 40K basically means "units we don't have alot of compared to troops choices" so there only in the Elite spot to show that. Some are badass other, not so much.

Who says DPs dont unlock cults as Troop with appropriate marks on the princes? :p I think you'll be ok.

Noir wrote:

skarsol wrote:

kenzosan wrote:Couple things:
It seems everyone is upset that there are not cult termies. I am too, but the Cult's are going to be elites. Shouldn't that mean they are getting buffed? In my mind it seems like the cults are gonna be vet's but better because they have the cult powers. Better special rules or weapons.

Except they're going to be able to be made Troops depending on your HQ, so they can't make them much better than regular troops or else cult armies will be OP.

That and the fact Elite in 40K basically means "units we don't have alot of compared to troops choices" so there only in the Elite spot to show that. Some are badass other, not so much.

Like I said, Nobz and Vets are better than reg Boyz and SMs.
As it is right now, that's what they are. Might as well have 9 squads of em if I want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brometheus wrote:Who says DPs dont unlock cults as Troop with appropriate marks on the princes? :p I think you'll be ok.

Problem is there is most likely no Daemon Princes. No Daemons in the CSM codex. At best the new DP sounds like a Possessed Champion

On topic- Last Saturday I was at my FLGS in a "welcome to 6th Ed" tourney (no points / prizes, just a good time and open rule discussion) and the owner was talking about a late August release of the new CSM codex. He was right about the 6th Ed release date so I'm sticking w/ that until other information trumps his prediction.

Off topic- As far as what will and will not be in the new Codex, I am ok w/ it. I've played only 4 games in 6th Ed but have found it to be immensely more enjoyable than 5th Ed, so my faith that the new CSM codex will be mostly worthwhile and a lot of fun is relatively high.

Random weirdness- Skalk's painting tip of the day: When drinking pink lemonade while painting yellow glaze / rust, be sure to know exactly where your brush rinse glass is.

Either my source didn't know much about this particular kit, or he was alluding to it being a Chaos Daemons flier instead of a Chaos Marines one.

Maybe there's something there. Didn't someone else also just say that Daemons, Nids and Tau were getting a flyer release with rules in WD? If this was the case then the Chaos Dragon could be for the Daemons while the CSM got something more conservative like the Hell Talon.

Damn, I am a bit worried now regarding what they are going to do in relation to CSM that follow Chaos Undivided. It would be nice if they spent an equal amount of time on this faction as they do on the other four.

kenzosan wrote:Problem is there is most likely no Daemon Princes. No Daemons in the CSM codex. At best the new DP sounds like a Possessed Champion

That's a huge leap of logic, I think.

lord_blackfang wrote:

kenzosan wrote:Problem is there is most likely no Daemon Princes. No Daemons in the CSM codex. At best the new DP sounds like a Possessed Champion

That's a huge leap of logic, I think.

How so? It says right in the OP. No Daemons and

There is a multitude of gifts (and curses) that your Characters can acquire which range from +1 Save, +1 Toughness, or becoming either a Spawn or a Daemon Prince

What I said was in relation to a Daemon Prince getting a gift/mark that unlocks cults as troops.
According to the rumor, there is no straight up HQ Daemon Prince like there used to be.

Or the OP means they are removing the Generic Greater and Lesser deamons. Just saying.

Lockark wrote:Or the OP means they are removing the Generic Greater and Lesser deamons. Just saying.

Considering the Daemon Prince box has been a Chaos Daemon box since release of Daemons, I doubt CSM will keep him. If you want a Daemon in your CSM army you use an ally, just like the OP said in the first place.

Removing Daemon Princes from the CSM book doesn't make any sense. It'd be like removing Daemons or Daemonic Gifts, other things that are core to Chaos.

Oh wait...

Do we know who the writer for this one is? I didn't see it in the OP.

Personally I'm hoping they decide to broaden the scope of the random elements in a Chaos Marine army:
Before deployment roll a d6:
1: You must play the entire game blindfolded
2: Switch armies with your opponent
3: Mutter "Heretics say what?" if anyone says "What" they have to control your army for this game. You can go home.
4: Make a rash impulse buy at gamesworkshop.com
5: Every time anything at all happens you have to make an unrelated Simpsons or Family Guy reference. Laugh at your brilliant sense of humour.
6: Apply all of the above.
If your HQ has a specific mark also apply the following: Nurgle: Sneeze on your opponent at the start of every turn. Khorne: Never stop yelling.
Tzeentch: Expose yourself to dangerous levels of radiation. Slaanesh: Take your pants off.
Undvided: Make everyone in the store/tournament/basement hug for slightly too long.

xole wrote:Do we know who the writer for this one is? I didn't see it in the OP.

Phil Kelly is what I've heard. Considering he made a better Chaos codex with the Space Wolves codex, I'm pretty hopeful I've heard correctly!

kenzosan wrote:
Problem is there is most likely no Daemon Princes. No Daemons in the CSM codex. At best the new DP sounds like a Possessed Champion

Under that logic Possessed should also no longer be in the codex.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Removing Daemon Princes from the CSM book doesn't make any sense. It'd be like removing Daemons or Daemonic Gifts, other things that are core to Chaos.

Oh wait...

It's like taking out the Inquisition from the Sisters.

Sephyr wrote:

kenzosan wrote:
Problem is there is most likely no Daemon Princes. No Daemons in the CSM codex. At best the new DP sounds like a Possessed Champion

Under that logic Possessed should also no longer be in the codex.

No. Read the OP. It says Daemons. Possessed aren't Daemons.
I am going by the rumors. I am not assuming anything. The rumors say that Daemons are out because of allies. Daemon Princes are Daemons and may be removed, which fits with the other rumor about a champion being able to become "a spawn or prince"

It's like taking out the Inquisition from the Sisters.

Not really, considering that they never started with the inquisition and are more with the Church.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

It's like taking out the Inquisition from the Sisters.

Not really, considering that they never started with the inquisition and are more with the Church.

My point was that the inquisition was a part of the codex like daemons are for csm. Not all of the csm use daemons in fights. Besides. The thing is, Allies means it won't matter. Which has been the point since the OP.
And since when aren't the Sisters as much a part of the Church as the Inquisition?

kenzosan wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Removing Daemon Princes from the CSM book doesn't make any sense. It'd be like removing Daemons or Daemonic Gifts, other things that are core to Chaos.

Oh wait...

It's like taking out the Inquisition from the Sisters.

Sephyr wrote:

kenzosan wrote:
Problem is there is most likely no Daemon Princes. No Daemons in the CSM codex. At best the new DP sounds like a Possessed Champion

Under that logic Possessed should also no longer be in the codex.

No. Read the OP. It says Daemons. Possessed aren't Daemons.
I am going by the rumors. I am not assuming anything. The rumors say that Daemons are out because of allies. Daemon Princes are Daemons and may be removed, which fits with the other rumor about a champion being able to become "a spawn or prince"

Very good point. If HQ become demon prince on a good role lets hope that means that demon prince exist in this dex. at least as a HQ choice. If its only because your character got into a beef with someone and won, that might be interesting IF you have a good shot at becoming a DP.

Well I'm gonna base my assumptions off of Fantasy and how they handled daemons, so I'm assuming Princes are still in

Plus its fluffy for Daemon Princes to LEAD, they cant lead if they're stuck in the HS slot


I suppose though its GW so expect the worst.

I think this talk about 'no daemon princes' is a little overblown.

It's a long standing piece of fluff that Lords and Sorcerers of a Chaos Marine army (or any heretic) aspires to Daemonhood. Daemon Princes don't START as Daemons, they start as heretics, mutants, leaders, all of them the best servants the Dark Gods get. That's why they BECOME Daemon Princes.

This puts Daemon Princes in a unique spot in the Chaos Marine and Chaos Daemon fluff. Daemon Princes don't start off as daemons. Keepers of Secrets do, Lords of Change do, Pink Horrors do, Fiends of Slaanesh do, Beasts of Nurgle do, Plaguebearers do, Bloodletters do, but Daemon Princes do not.

Now, the one bit that is interesting is the idea that a roll on the Eye of the Gods table will turn a lord INTO a Daemon Prince (or a spawn). Now, if a lord turns into a Daemon Prince, you'll probably have to have the model to represent that, right? If you need the model for the Codex anyway, why not have the full entry for it so you can get more bang for your buck (and GW sells more models)? Oh yeah, that's right, we're in the real world where money talks, and we're talking about GW. Yeah, taking a key and very popular plastic kit out of a Codex typically isn't GW style. They sell more by being more inclusive with their kits. That's why all Space Marine kits are practically interchangeable, and why Daemons were included in the 3.5 (and on) CSM Codices. It's why they're doing allies now. To take a key HQ model out of the Chaos Marine Codex doesn't quite jive.

I'm sure princes are still in. Chaos warriors have princes as lords, why would CSM lose them? Princes are still just elevated mortals.

timetowaste85 wrote:I'm sure princes are still in. Chaos warriors have princes as lords, why would CSM lose them? Princes are still just elevated mortals.

Not to mention DP's in 3.5 were little more than lords with 50+ wargear in daemonic gifts.