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Made in gb
Furious Fire Dragon





If you've ever seen the 'Muslamic Ray Guns' meme, that bloke was part of the EDL, and reasonably indicative of the general quality of their recruits.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Britain First were traditionally most known for their 'dog whistle' facebook posts that were often shared and reshared around in great numbers for people who had no idea of the connotations of the group.
   
Made in gb
Bryan Ansell





Birmingham, UK

Another attack in France? Just seen this after a busy day.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40332532

   
Made in gb
Legendary Black Templar High Marshall





avoiding the lorax on Crion

Yeah. Wepaons, explosives.

Seems that coulda got alot worse than one terrorist killed.
No other injury thankfully.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Frazzled wrote:

Would they be considered at the level of neo Nazis, Klan or just nationalistic?


Depends on the day of the week and who's talking.

To err is human, to forgive is contrary to official SAC policy.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Sad to see ignorance begetting ignorance. Good vibes to the UK Muslims that now, more than ever, have to face this kind of behaviour.

Unfortunately I know of more than a few friends and family stateside, as well as in the UK, hardening their hearts toward Muslims and condoning this kind of action as acceptable. Quite an eye-opener to see people you think you know harbouring such feelings.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/06/20 01:39:26


"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
   
Made in us
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






The Dog-house

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Unfortunately I know of more than a few friends and family stateside, as well as in the UK, hardening their hearts toward Muslims and condoning this kind of action as acceptable. Quite an eye-opener to see people you think you know harbouring such feelings.


It's not hard to see why they "harbor such feelings."

H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Tactical_Spam wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
Unfortunately I know of more than a few friends and family stateside, as well as in the UK, hardening their hearts toward Muslims and condoning this kind of action as acceptable. Quite an eye-opener to see people you think you know harbouring such feelings.


It's not hard to see why they "harbor such feelings."


I know, just sad to hear them agreeing with the sentiment that driving a car into a group of Muslims somehow makes things better and was the correct course of action. I thought my friends and family were more intelligent than that, and beyond blaming a whole segment of society for the actions of fringe maniacs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/20 02:08:54


"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



Glasgow

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
 Nostromodamus wrote:
Unfortunately I know of more than a few friends and family stateside, as well as in the UK, hardening their hearts toward Muslims and condoning this kind of action as acceptable. Quite an eye-opener to see people you think you know harbouring such feelings.


It's not hard to see why they "harbor such feelings."


It is unless they're absolute imbeciles.
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in southern England.

It's difficult to understand the mindset that sees it as acceptable to ram a van into a group of people because it's unacceptable to ram a van into a group of people.

Everything is better with a huge wig. I thought that was common knowledge.

Sometimes the most profound of all truths cannot be spoken.

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it.

Forum posting guidelines, please learn them! You will be tested. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Legitimately astounded with the whiteness of headlines about this terrorist. Wall-to-wall 'troubled/deranged/ill' 'loner/lone wolf'. All the journos spent yesterday morning talking about how everyone was conscious of not reducing his crime but they seem to have decided doing that's actually fine after all.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







The politicians seen to be saying and doing the right things at least. On both sides.

There also seems to be a possible boycott by stores of "The Sun" in the works as a result of their headlines. "The Sun" may not have thought about just how meant Sikhs and Muslims tend to own local news agents...
   
Made in gb
Legendary Black Templar High Marshall





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 Compel wrote:
The politicians seen to be saying and doing the right things at least. On both sides.

There also seems to be a possible boycott by stores of "The Sun" in the works as a result of their headlines. "The Sun" may not have thought about just how meant Sikhs and Muslims tend to own local news agents...


Yeah that or the local smaller shops. One of the main places that drive newspaper sales.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in gb
Cunning Chieftain






Again, appalled at the sheer apologism in the press.

Lone Wolf. Mental Health. He's not Us. We're not like Him. We certainly didn't provide a fertile ground for Islamophobia.

Oh, and my favourite? Revenge Terror Attack.

Revenge. The suggestion that, just possibly, those attending the Finsbury Park mosque were somehow complicit in the various atrocities and terror attacks of recent months. Constantly going on about how Abu Hamza used to preach outside that mosque.

And why did he preach outside? Because they banned him from entering the mosque at least ten years ago.

Fed up for Scalpers? Why not join us? 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's difficult to understand the mindset that sees it as acceptable to ram a van into a group of people because it's unacceptable to ram a van into a group of people.
While I don't agree with people who feel it's acceptable to ram a van into anyone regardless of the circumstances, I think some people view it as an us vs them war, so see it as acceptable in the same way it was acceptable to drop bombs on Berlin/Tokyo after the bombing of London/Pearl Harbour.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's difficult to understand the mindset that sees it as acceptable to ram a van into a group of people because it's unacceptable to ram a van into a group of people.
While I don't agree with people who feel it's acceptable to ram a van into anyone regardless of the circumstances, I think some people view it as an us vs them war, so see it as acceptable in the same way it was acceptable to drop bombs on Berlin/Tokyo after the bombing of London/Pearl Harbour.


Being able to clearly identify your enemy and simplify a conflict into an Us vs Them is easier to deal with, psychologically.

It's easier for people to say to say "All Muslims are a threat!" than "A minority of Muslims are a threat". How then do you distinguish between the good and the bad?
   
Made in gb
Cunning Chieftain






Well, if the far-right are to be believed, working in my multicultural office, I should be fighting off my Muslim colleagues in the style of Clouseau and Kato. But I'm not.

Probably because the far-right are talking absolute mince, and only moved on from constantly blaming jews and people with coloured skin because that sort of racism is not acceptable.

Fed up for Scalpers? Why not join us? 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Again, appalled at the sheer apologism in the press.

Lone Wolf. Mental Health. He's not Us. We're not like Him. We certainly didn't provide a fertile ground for Islamophobia.

Oh, and my favourite? Revenge Terror Attack.


....You call this apologism?






I'm seeing a lot of posts all over facebook with along the lines 'If this was a muslim, they'd be calling him a terrorist, only because he's white, he's "mentally ill"'. When the reality appears to be that everyone from the newspapers to the government is describing it as a terror attack, and him as a terrorist. He's been arrested on terrorism charges, for feth's sake. So no, I really don't see 'apologism' in the press, or indeed, anywhere else.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/20 10:24:19



 
   
Made in fr
Pious Palatine





 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
It's easier for people to say to say "All Muslims are a threat!" than "A minority of Muslims are a threat". How then do you distinguish between the good and the bad?

Well, this terror attack, just like the huge, overwhelming majority of terror attack, was made by men, as opposed to women. And it's not just terror attack, just take a look at the rape statistics. So how do you distinguish between the good males and the bad males? Or would women be justified to all go Ms. 45 on us? What about blacks in the US going to shoot random cops ?
Oooooh but it's entirely different because, you know, (nebulous) reasons!
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I think some people view it as an us vs them war, so see it as acceptable in the same way it was acceptable to drop bombs on Berlin/Tokyo after the bombing of London/Pearl Harbour.

It's worth noting that bombardment that was destined to civilian target rather than military target is not considered acceptable by many, and that bombardment that had no military uses and targeted civilians is basically war crimes.

We'll be doing one thing, and one thing only: punching Nazis. We didn't come to teach Nazis a lesson in humanity. Nazis ain't got no humanity. They need to be destroyed. That's why any and every son of a $$$ we find wearing a Nazi uniform, they're gonna die.  
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Oxfordshire

The Star, The Daily Mirror, i and the Guardian - The left, or on average more left leaning, papers of the UK.

Now let's contrast with the right leaning papers.

The Sun:

Use of terror once, use of maniac twice - this is a classic way of deflecting

The Mail:

Psychopath, drank heavily, spiralling out of control, mental health issues - all dog whistles meant to deflect.

The Express:

This paper doesn't even have the guts to call it a terror attack on the front page.

They're making the right noises, "oh, it's a terror attack", but they're making damn sure they get their racist dog-whistles in to highlight he's different from other terrorists - he's mentally unstable, that's the real reason, not like them muslim terrorists! This is apologism.



This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/06/20 10:48:28


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



Glasgow

'Jobless Lone Wolf Held Over Attack On Mosque: father of four had suffered mental health problems, say family'.

From The Times. A broadsheet. Which also sticks another two stories and a bunch of adverts on the front page. Bananas.

Contrast with their single image, title-only, one-story covers 'Massacre At The Market' and 'Assault on Westminster: Islamist mows down pedestrians and kills policeman'.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/20 11:49:37


 
   
Made in gb
Cunning Chieftain






Henry pretty much nailed it.

Fed up for Scalpers? Why not join us? 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 Henry wrote:
The Star, The Daily Mirror, i and the Guardian - The left, or on average more left leaning, papers of the UK.


Did you seriously just call the Star left wing?


Not to mention that even if we choose to say 'Right Wing newspapers are less likely to focus on the terror connotations', that's an immediate backing down/qualification from the original premise/overarching claim regarding the entire 'media'. The concept that left/right wing papers cover things in more/less detail or from a particular angle is hardly an exclusive new revelation specific to any one issue.

Now let's contrast with the right leaning papers.

The Sun:

Use of terror once, use of maniac twice - this is a classic way of deflecting


So, they did use the word terror in the *squints* thirty odd words on the frontpage. Next.

The Mail:

Psychopath, drank heavily, spiralling out of control, mental health issues - all dog whistles meant to deflect.


Firstly, calling him a psychopath is hardly a compliment or deflecting the issue. Considering they open up with how he 'racially abused muslims'. They also vey specifically say he was 'arrested on suspicion of attempted murder and terrorist offences'' and label it as 'the fourth terror attack in three months'. Sorry, so where's the issue? Because if it's that his motivations aren't being questioned along the same lines, that's a very different accusation to 'not regarding it as a terror attack' or to use Grotsnik's phrase 'apologism'.

Heck, depending on the motivations involved, it may well even be accurate to describe it differently. If one person runs others over with a van because God is Great and he wants his twenty virgins, and the other does it because he's an alcoholic who's read too many right wing rags, it's hardly a bias to point that out. One could, perhaps, say that both were gullible as a motivation, but they're otherwise different. They're both still terrorists, and that should be pointed out (as indeed, it has been in five of the six daily headlines linked collectively above), but there's no great 'apologism' about noting differing motivations for performing terrorist attacks.


They're making the right noises, "oh, it's a terror attack", but they're making damn sure they get their racist dog-whistles in to highlight he's different from other terrorists - he's mentally unstable, that's the real reason, not like them muslim terrorists! This is apologism.

You're painting your own prejudices onto the media here.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/06/20 14:03:44


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Oxfordshire

 Ketara wrote:
You're painting your own prejudices onto the media here.

No, just seeing the same depressing predictable crap that we can expect to see from the gutter.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Welcoming refugees from Dumbfethistan

I look forward to the day when the gutter press casually links all EDL/BF supporters in with terrorists like Osbourne they way they do with Muslims and ISIS.

We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned". 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 Henry wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
You're painting your own prejudices onto the media here.

No, just seeing the same depressing predictable crap that we can expect to see from the gutter.


Considering we've gone from 'The press is demonstrating crass apologism and trying to deflect accusations of terrorism onto mental health' to 'One paper didn't run the word terror on the frontpage, and a few others mention potential mental health motivations (whilst still calling him a terrorist)? I'm not really seeing a problem here.

Your stated accusation here ' they're making damn sure they get their racist dog-whistles in to highlight he's different from other terrorists - he's mentally unstable, that's the real reason, not like them muslim terrorists! This is apologism.' is ludicrous in conception to begin with. If two people are locked up for stealing, and one did it because he's a kleptomaniac, the other because he's an immoral git, is it morally wrong to mention those differing motivations in the reports if they're true?

Your knee-jerk reaction against the evils of the press demonstrates your own symptomatic bias against them rather than any evidence presented thus far. I mean, you haven't even attempted to establish whether or not he does have mental health problems or not! For all you know, he had half a dozen severe conditions that genuinely impelled him in this direction, but oh no. Any potential mental health problems must just be a cop out by the evil media, right? Everyone knows people make up mental problems all the time, eh?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/06/20 17:38:07


 
   
Made in gb
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





London

Quality quote from a neighbour in the Metro this morning.

'He's lived on our estate for a few years. He's always been a complete c*** but this is really surprising'

Somewhat contrasts with the family's 'he's never been racist' and 'he's friendly and polite'.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Quality quote from a neighbour in the Metro this morning.

'He's lived on our estate for a few years. He's always been a complete c*** but this is really surprising'

Somewhat contrasts with the family's 'he's never been racist' and 'he's friendly and polite'.


The phrase, "you don't gak where you eat" comes to mind.
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







I've read a few more testimonies, and the general gist seems to be 'bit of an over-aggressive weirdo but a family man'. No traceable membership of any far-right organisations as things stand, and the security services had never heard of him. Fits the 'lone wolf' pattern more than anything, in that he seems to have just been swallowing online propaganda of far-right wingers. He just separated from his wife a few months beforehand, took to drink, was regularly abusive to people in the street in that period. His mother claims he was already on medication for mental health issues and had been for months, that'll be easily traceable if the case so it's likely to be true. There's also video footage of him shouting 'Kill me' after he's been pinned down and they're fighting off the mob, he actually wanted to die at that point.

All the above speaks to me of a very deeply unhappy man with various problems, who couldn't take it anymore and decided to launch a terror attack in line with some deeply held xenophobic beliefs. He probably thought he'd get shot by the police or something, and that would be that. Most likely not out of a desire for matyrdom, but rather deep depression or suchlike. If he was on anti-depressants already but kept drinking, alcohol usually prevents the drugs from working properly, so that could be a contributing factor.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2017/06/20 18:51:58



 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




IIRC the press have to tread more carefully with there reporting when the perp has been taken alive and is going to face trial.
   
 
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