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Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

You can, you just need to summon them. And that's nothing new, CSM have needed either summoning or possession to get daemons since at least 2nd edition.


i don't want to have to take a risk to bring them in, the summoning rule right now is sooo underwhelming, theres a reason its almost never used.

Making it so the summoning is now only a fluff explanation for soup (which it already is but with a chance of failure) seems fitting.

"For every character with a mark of chaos, you may include one unit from the Chaos Demons codex with the same allegiance without breaking purity bonuses"

so now you get characters that can still move and you can bring bigger units/squads of demons that summoning usually would let you.

Or, they could just fix the summoning mechanic. Summoning used to be pretty powerful back when it worked right. Just removing the restriction on moving would go a long way.
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Void__Dragon wrote:
PenitentJake wrote:

But I don't think anyone can really read descriptions of what a Waaagh is and assume they are intended to be mon-subfaction affairs.

Ditto for chaos.


This is my concern. I'm a Chaos Daemons player and mixed god armies are so common in the fluff as to be unremarkable. Now if I want to take a Slaanesh detachment (which almost every Daemons army that wants to be competitive does), I just can't.


I imagine it will be revealed Friday, but this doesn't affect Daemons as they do not have replaceable keywords.


They do ACKCHUALLY, Furies and demon princes can be in any allegiance


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Or, they could just fix the summoning mechanic. Summoning used to be pretty powerful back when it worked right. Just removing the restriction on moving would go a long way.


Thats what i'm suggesting, just that the "summonning" happens on the list building phase

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/18 18:02:51


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 VladimirHerzog wrote:


They do ACKCHUALLY, Furies and demon princes can be in any allegiance


Yea, but pretty minor overall. I'm sure the new book would handle those scenarios appropriately.

I bet what GW will do is sell us armies of reknown for the CSM / Daemon interplay ( for "on the table" daemons plus CSM ).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/18 18:48:31


   
Made in us
Implacable Skitarii




Maybe give it a cool name like "Disciples of Be'lakor" or something....
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Mariongodspeed wrote:
Maybe give it a cool name like "Disciples of Be'lakor" or something....


god i wish it worked like it should, that FAQ broke my heart
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran





tneva82 wrote:

You seriouly think gw games can be played competively? For that player skill would need to be deciding factor.

Sleeping is more competive than gw games.

Only noobs think gw games are competive. As is level of skill needed is about 3rd grader. 1st grader can already solve the best army list.

Gw games are beer&pretzel by definition. Kids might think it's competive...until they read rules.


INSULT REMOVED - GROW UP FOR ONCE

Anyone can copy paste lists. In fact plenty do. There's a reason the same people keep topping events even in the mirror matches. There's also reasons their lists keep changing
and evolving too, because no the most optimal list isn't that obvious, nor is it static, depends on the event and the meta. But a pro like you would already know that right?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/28 13:56:28


 
   
Made in ca
Master Sergeant





 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Anyone can copy paste lists. In fact plenty do. There's a reason the same people keep topping events even in the mirror matches. There's also reasons their lists keep changing
and evolving too, because no the most optimal list isn't that obvious, nor is it static, depends on the event and the meta. But a pro like you would already know that right?


That's such a big factor in squeaking out that last little hair of top table performance. If you're only knowledgeable enough to netlist, you will always be on the receiving end of meta changes, never the guy with the counter-meta picks or new tech adapting to the field. You'll literally be meta-chasing, and that might work occasionally (and will certainly work for bullying casuals) but it will never get you to the top.
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought






Unpopular opinion, I want some soups back.

I actually really miss being viable to take guard + basically any other imperial faction. I also miss the flavor of taking occult chaos space marine legion + flavored daemons, like tsosn + tzeentzch daemons.
I think GW should have trimmed it and correct it rather then just outright shoot it down.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 Backspacehacker wrote:
Unpopular opinion, I want some soups back.

I actually really miss being viable to take guard + basically any other imperial faction. I also miss the flavor of taking occult chaos space marine legion + flavored daemons, like tsosn + tzeentzch daemons.
I think GW should have trimmed it and correct it rather then just outright shoot it down.


same, i actually really liked my 6th edition orks and chaos list, it was freeboota orks acting as mercenaries (they were primary faction) for a random black legion lower level officer (had names but its been a while) let me have some good ranged weapons to open vehicles to up for the orks to assault, good fun, wasn't some tournament level netlist, just something i enjoyed piloting, if i recall GW then in 7th decided no allies for orks even though they are wierdly one of the few factions that would do mercenary work for literally anybody for the right amount of scrap, hel its cannon that even the imperium has used orks when its suites them.

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Illinois

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Unpopular opinion, I want some soups back.

I actually really miss being viable to take guard + basically any other imperial faction. I also miss the flavor of taking occult chaos space marine legion + flavored daemons, like tsosn + tzeentzch daemons.
I think GW should have trimmed it and correct it rather then just outright shoot it down.


Same here fluff-wise. It matched a lot of Black Library stories where a unit of space marines assists a guard platoon. Also it justified buying a small squad of X here and there. No doubt it was exploited and ruined game play.

You can find me in the Chicago Tiki Room, where the drinks are always strong but don't taste that way!!!

http://popschicagotikiroom.blogspot.com/

https://twitter.com/PopsChTikiRoom 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 Backspacehacker wrote:
Unpopular opinion, I want some soups back.

I actually really miss being viable to take guard + basically any other imperial faction. I also miss the flavor of taking occult chaos space marine legion + flavored daemons, like tsosn + tzeentzch daemons.
I think GW should have trimmed it and correct it rather then just outright shoot it down.


Probably not actually that unpopular. I agree. I love mixed armies, and GW (as usual) overcorrected. Changing the detachments to cost CP instead of giving CP was probably enough to make soup balanced, they didn't need to introduce monoarmy bonuses on top of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


 Popsghostly wrote:

Same here fluff-wise. It matched a lot of Black Library stories where a unit of space marines assists a guard platoon. Also it justified buying a small squad of X here and there.


Yeah, definitely. I used to buy more models when the souping was more viable. If I liked some unit in some imperial or eldar army, I could just buy it and knew I could ally it with my other stuff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/20 19:54:29


   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

I take mixed armies no problem.

Actually I like it better now. I can play Custodes with Tempestus and avoid the Ka'tah crap from my lists.

And I haven't really felt the loss in power.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





So happy to see how many other players liked and miss mixed armies.

Me too!
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





There is nothing stopping you from taking mixed armies.
You just don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

No, the detachment CPs alone wouldn't be nearly enough of a cost.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Why should armies forget who they are because there are allies?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Tampa,FL USA

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why should armies forget who they are because there are allies?


For the same reason they forgot how to invite their friends over for 3 editions.

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in ie
Battleship Captain





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why should armies forget who they are because there are allies?


It amuses me to think that if you ally Sisters and Space Marines the Sisters are actually lose faith in the Emperor a bit.


 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





I guess that the presence of his angels are enough of a miracle for them, so they feel bad asking for more
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Same reason as 9" deep strike--sometimes fluff needs to compromise with gameplay.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Same reason as 9" deep strike--sometimes fluff needs to compromise with gameplay.


Exactly, rules are abstractions that need to compromise with gameplay. Do you want allies? Sure, but you also get a drawback in return.

Might even represent the fact that mixed up forces aren't optimized and somehow improvised as members from different forces might not fight with consolidate tactics and synergies, which makes them lose some efficiency, aka some faction bonus are negated.

Maybe it's not the best way to deal with allies, but it has to be some drawback to balance the fact that some armies can bring allies, some can choose from an almost infinite array of allies, and others can't bring allies at all.

 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ok, spoilers confirmed.

You can't play more than one subfaction PERIOD.

It isn't a problem of purity bonuses, you literally can't. I would have honestly preferred the other way, but this is what it is.

Edit: But you can still soup with a different faction.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/21 12:56:06


 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




I don't see how you can soup anymore (with limited exceptions). The spoiler says that when you make your subfaction selection that selection works for your entire army. It may be that the actual rule says detachment but what is written is army.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/21/war-zone-nachmund-grand-tournament-mission-pack-means-new-tactical-challenges-and-more-exciting-games/
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah, but nothing stops you from having Cadians and Ultramarines, since one is <Chapter> and the other is <Regiment>.
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I don't see how you can soup anymore (with limited exceptions). The spoiler says that when you make your subfaction selection that selection works for your entire army. It may be that the actual rule says detachment but what is written is army.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/21/war-zone-nachmund-grand-tournament-mission-pack-means-new-tactical-challenges-and-more-exciting-games/


Proper soups are 100% intact. The only soups that are gone are those from the same codex, which shouldn't even be considered as soups.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Tampa,FL USA

Spoletta wrote:
Yeah, but nothing stops you from having Cadians and Ultramarines, since one is <Chapter> and the other is <Regiment>.


This. You can still soup, you just can't single book soup if everything shares the same replaceable keyword.

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

Spoletta wrote:
Yeah, but nothing stops you from having Cadians and Ultramarines, since one is <Chapter> and the other is <Regiment>.


Are we sure?

If you have to pick for your whole army, would you not have to pick between Cadians and Ultramarines?

 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 Platuan4th wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Yeah, but nothing stops you from having Cadians and Ultramarines, since one is <Chapter> and the other is <Regiment>.


This. You can still soup, you just can't single book soup if everything shares the same replaceable keyword.


for some armies that makes sense, like hive fleets fighting together abotu the closest is the one fighting chaos where other hive fleets will leave them biomass since chaos doe snot leave behind biomass. For other armies liek orks, the orks are literally a society of mixed clans, eldar craftworlds have and do work together to goals, imperial guard detachments specifically work together as a way to fight cult incusion etc.

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Tampa,FL USA

 vipoid wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Yeah, but nothing stops you from having Cadians and Ultramarines, since one is <Chapter> and the other is <Regiment>.


Are we sure?

If you have to pick for your whole army, would you not have to pick between Cadians and Ultramarines?


the sub-faction you choose now replaces every example of that keyword


Guard and Marines have different keywords, you can't replace <REGIMENT> with your chosen <CHAPTER> and would need to pick both types.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/21 14:17:12


You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Cobleskill

I know that it is awful late in this thread to have this question, but explain something to me:

For those of us who run a Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment out of the same book as another detachment, say baneblades and an infantry regiment; Would we be stuck running both without any regiment bonuses as a SHAD precludes the selection, or does this new rule override that BRB rule?

'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
Racerguy180 wrote:
rules come and go, models are forever...like herpes.
 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 carldooley wrote:
I know that it is awful late in this thread to have this question, but explain something to me:

For those of us who run a Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment out of the same book as another detachment, say baneblades and an infantry regiment; Would we be stuck running both without any regiment bonuses as a SHAD precludes the selection, or does this new rule override that BRB rule?

Neither. Your Baneblade has the <REGIMENT> keyword, it just doesn't get to benefit from your regiment's faction trait. That's how it already works.
   
 
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